A Manual For Creating Atheists

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posted on Nov, 13 2013 @ 09:40 PM
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Learn to De-Convert the Faithful With Practical New Book

Iʼm starting to find the equivocations, vagueness, and the unmerited claims emerging from assertions of faith to be a bit tedious. Asking a believer for a definition of faith and a description of how it works will inevitably result in a cogent lesson in question begging. Christians will often present this popular Biblical verse, Hebrews 11:1:


Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

How this confidence and assurance is achieved is never divulged, and faith, in this case, simply asserts. Alternatively, the theist appeals to lifeʼs uncertainties and defines faith as the leap over these probabilities. I discussed this erroneous view during my podcast with minister-turned-atheist Dr. John Loftus in May of this year. Having faith in a proposition – whatever that means – in no way magically increases or decreases the likelihood of its truth. Again, faith simply asserts and leaves much unexplained.

In my experience, definitions of faith tend to be synonymous with the word “belief” or beg the question, as the passage in Hebrews above illustrates. Faith is often invoked as an extra ingredient or additional power behind a belief or knowledge claim, but the method or mechanism is either flawed, non-existent or kept a deep, dark secret.


Many people still invoke faith as a way of knowing, despite it being highly unlikely to help one arrive at the truth. This is why I’m grateful for Dr. Peter Boghossian’s recently published book, A Manual For Creating Atheists. Throughout the book Boghossian provides conversational strategies and tactics designed to lead religious believers from faith to reason. The book offers diagnostic methods, provides practical examples of conversations, and is supported by an impressive body of cross-disciplinary peer-reviewed literature. Boghossian is an outspoken philosophy professor at Portland State University, and recently hosted a book-signing and interview with renowned evolutionary biologist and prominent atheist Richard Dawkins.

Boghossian’s book promotes what he calls “street epistemology,” by which he seeks to endow a legion of savvy secularists with the ability to disabuse the religious from the fallacy of faith. The book provides us with a definition of epistemology: the study of knowledge and the project of establishing how knowledge is achieved.

Article continued HERE.

I was recently reading through the thread about atheist churches popping up in the US and got a kick out of some of the replies then thought to myself if they only knew there was a book like this circulating now.

I have known about it for a while but thought maybe I shouldn’t bring it up on ATS because authoring a thread about this might not be worth the headache.

OK so let me be clear I am writing this just to let everyone know the book exists but I haven’t read it and probably will not. I don’t think anyone needs converting I think people should find their own path where ever it leads so don’t shoot the messenger OF THIS THREAD. That would be me.

I am interested to see what everyone thinks of the books premise or any other thoughts on the matter. It seems like there has been a lot of movement in the atheist community’s and even knew ones forming but to my knowledge this is the first book of its type however I have never looked for one either.

Below is a talk from the author Peter Boghossian a Philosophy professor if you want to see what he is like and you have the time to watch.

edit on 13-11-2013 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 13 2013 @ 09:41 PM
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reply to post by Grimpachi
 



I have known about it for a while but thought maybe I shouldn’t bring it up on ATS because authoring a thread about this might not be worth the headache.


You'll be fine


This is annoying to me, this whole book concept.

Atheism is ABOUT NOTHING. Creating stuff like this and having 'churches' is just turning atheism into a religion.

People will cry foul and claim that it isn't, but that's the truth. Religious folk get together to worship their own words and ideas every week and to spread their message and fund their locations.

Atheism is effectively doing the same thing with this book.

~Tenth


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posted on Nov, 13 2013 @ 09:51 PM
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Iʼm starting to find the equivocations, vagueness, and the unmerited claims emerging from assertions of faith to be a bit tedious.


Speaking of tedious...

-----------------------

I'm beginning to hate atheists. Not real atheists, just the devout atheists that preach, attempt to convert, and ridicule anyone with differing beliefs. They've become what they hated with no sense of irony.

There needs to be a new term for this new breed of atheist. It used to be an atheist was someone who did not believe in God. Now it's someone who doesn't believe in God, is intolerant, obsessive over something they don't believe in, self righteous and more annoying than a vegan at a barbecue.

I've seen some very insightful, compassionate and grounded atheists, but the majority remind me of a college freshman that just took a woman's study class and now hate all men in the name of feminism/equality. Desperately seeking attention, trying to be edgy and all the while oblivious to their hypocrisy. Atheism isn't a movement, it's a lack of belief in a higher power. It's fine if you want to talk about it and convert people to your way of thinking, but don't think for a second that you're automatically brighter than everyone else or somehow have stronger morals.

The new bitchy atheists are just as bad as the nutty intolerant religious.


edit on 13-11-2013 by Domo1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 13 2013 @ 09:55 PM
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This isn't anything new, and not surprising.



posted on Nov, 13 2013 @ 10:03 PM
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I say translate it to Arabic, and start air dropping it all over the Middle East.

Translating it to Italian and air dropping Millions of copies all over Rome would be nice too.

Actually, just drop the darned book until it rains from the sky everywhere sufficiently enough such that we're up to our knees in it, everywhere, yes, everywhere.

If it doesn't eliminate religion, it might sufficiently bosh some on the head hard enough they might have another think.



edit on 11/13/2013 by AliceBleachWhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 13 2013 @ 10:14 PM
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I love that guy on reddit who said 'I'm not a professional quote maker or anything but I though you guys at /r/atheism would enjoy this.' Worst/best quote ever.

'In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god's blessing. But, because I am enlightened by my intelligence.'

- Aalewis (aka super brave guy)

Favorite atheist copypasta. I have a feeling some people that show up to this thread will be VERY euphoric and tip their fedoras at one another.



posted on Nov, 13 2013 @ 10:33 PM
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Maybe my view on religion is a unique one.... But this garbage wouldn't tear me away from my religious beliefs.

But then again, my religious beliefs are ones that don't get stuck on a certain church or a strict way of thinking.

I hate churches! They preach love and understanding while judging those who don't see it their way.

The MAIN goal of ANY church is more members for more money. They don't care if you believe or not, they just want money... It is a business, and the business is more members with more money.

Churches preach that only God can judge - see above, churches judge all the time. Yet, they still want money.

My religion is to assist those really in need. My religion also believes that the Kingdom of Heaven can be on Earth - via True understanding for people's real needs. If you read the New Book - it was a big hippy commune event. It was a utopia at that time. People then really needed it IMO.

I see my belief in Jesus as a way to live my life. I don't see Jesus as a way to limit my life. But I also respect other views on life. We are all in this together as mortal beings.

We cannot judge one another in this life. We just have to live it as we seem fit.

Sry for any overkill. I respect everyone's view on life - to include those who believe in nothing other than what man accomplished.



posted on Nov, 13 2013 @ 11:05 PM
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Just what we need. Atheists proselytizing, and inviting people to church.

Sheesh!



posted on Nov, 13 2013 @ 11:08 PM
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Capitalism at its finest???



posted on Nov, 13 2013 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by ChuckNasty
 





I hate churches! They preach love and understanding while judging those who don't see it their way.

The MAIN goal of ANY church is more members for more money. They don't care if you believe or not, they just want money... It is a business, and the business is more members with more money.

Churches preach that only God can judge - see above, churches judge all the time. Yet, they still want money.


You should try some more churches. They really aren't all like that.



posted on Nov, 13 2013 @ 11:21 PM
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Evangelical Atheists...and they still don't see the irony...

Between this & the Atheist mega-churches thread I'm not sure anymore why atheists think they're better than any other religion...

They insist on believing that there is no God - yet they cannot possibly know that for a fact despite how arrogant they want to be about it.

The belief that there is no higher power or purpose & there is nothing there except themselves, nobody to watch over you, nobody to help when the need is great, no protection, a belief in nothing.

It's damn depressing...why would you want to be nothing with no purpose - to simply return to dust when your short run is through?

Why do you want that?

And why are you trying to sell it to others who have an alternative belief system?

What does it gain you other than an ego boost if someone believes what you believe?

It shouldn't matter to you at all what others believe if there is truly no God.

Why would you not simply let them believe what they want & stop trying to shove your crap down other people's throats?

Yet here you are, being as evangelical as any Southern Baptist...I think you need to take a better look at what your motivations are & who's work you are truly doing...

Atheists have been aggressively selling a belief system that shouldn't care if it's sold or not...

Something stinks...
edit on 13-11-2013 by coldkidc because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 13 2013 @ 11:22 PM
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Domo1

Iʼm starting to find the equivocations, vagueness, and the unmerited claims emerging from assertions of faith to be a bit tedious.


Speaking of tedious...

-----------------------

I'm beginning to hate atheists. Not real atheists, just the devout atheists that preach, attempt to convert, and ridicule anyone with differing beliefs. They've become what they hated with no sense of irony.

There needs to be a new term for this new breed of atheist. It used to be an atheist was someone who did not believe in God. Now it's someone who doesn't believe in God, is intolerant, obsessive over something they don't believe in, self righteous and more annoying than a vegan at a barbecue.

I've seen some very insightful, compassionate and grounded atheists, but the majority remind me of a college freshman that just took a woman's study class and now hate all men in the name of feminism/equality. Desperately seeking attention, trying to be edgy and all the while oblivious to their hypocrisy. Atheism isn't a movement, it's a lack of belief in a higher power. It's fine if you want to talk about it and convert people to your way of thinking, but don't think for a second that you're automatically brighter than everyone else or somehow have stronger morals.

The new bitchy atheists are just as bad as the nutty intolerant religious.


edit on 13-11-2013 by Domo1 because: (no reason given)


I could not have possibly come up with anything better than what you said Domo. I wish I could heap flags and stars upon yars (?)


The irony of it all....
edit on 11/13/2013 by Kangaruex4Ewe because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 13 2013 @ 11:42 PM
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Domo1
reply to post by ChuckNasty
 





I hate churches! They preach love and understanding while judging those who don't see it their way.

The MAIN goal of ANY church is more members for more money. They don't care if you believe or not, they just want money... It is a business, and the business is more members with more money.

Churches preach that only God can judge - see above, churches judge all the time. Yet, they still want money.


You should try some more churches. They really aren't all like that.


Tried enough. Maybe being in the 'deep' south during my church ventures might be a flaw? Dunno.

One can only taken so many 'Heaven is full of golden mansions' stuff before one starts to realize that many have went off the path IMO. My opinion is mine alone - I am not telling y'all to stop going to church. Just that churches isn't my thing.

Goto church wearing beach shorts, flip flops, and a white T-shirt and see if people gossip. Might even get the main preacher guy going on his dress code tangent... Happened to me, but with baggy pants and the wife wearing pants. Guess the good book states that women should wear full dresses and no pants. My baggy pants were too mainstream for them...

When I find a church that cares for the word instead of the image - I'll say OK. But I see how atheists can come to their judgment. Sometimes the church doesn't make sense at all.

I have no judgment against atheists - they are trying to find their way in life is all. Most adopt a way-of-thinking that makes mainstream religion out-of-date. I can relate and agree on many levels.

My thinking just involves a creepy overlord that sees everything I do...

Those poor kittens...




posted on Nov, 13 2013 @ 11:51 PM
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reply to post by coldkidc
 





Why are you here..."No reason" says the Atheist...your life is meaningless if there is no God...why would I want that?

Why do you want that?

And why are you trying to sell it to others who have an alternative belief system?

What does it gain you other than an ego boost if someone believes what you believe?

It shouldn't matter to you at all what others believe if there is truly no God.

Why would you not simply let them believe what they want & stop trying to shove your crap down other people's throats?


Err… not that I want to convert you but I wish you had read the article. Because in the article there are some excerpts from his book and one covers what you just wrote.


Why are you here..."No reason" says the Atheist...your life is meaningless if there is no God...why would I want that?

Why do you want that?

And why are you trying to sell it to others who have an alternative belief system?

What does it gain you other than an ego boost if someone believes what you believe?

It shouldn't matter to you at all what others believe if there is truly no God.

Why would you not simply let them believe what they want & stop trying to shove your crap down other people's throats?



Err… not that I want to convert you but I wish you had read the article. Because in the article there are some excerpts from his book and one covers what you just wrote.


Boghossianʼs chapter on anti-apologetics addresses commonly used arguments often used by people of faith, such as this statement:


“Why take away faith if it helps get people through the day?”

Boghossian provides a simple, effective and direct response:


This is a common line among blue-collar liberals who’ve not been indoctrinated by liberal academic values. I’ve never really understood how removing a bad way to reason will make it difficult to get through the day. If anything, it would seem that correcting someone’s reasoning would increase their chances getting through the day. When one has a more reliable form of reasoning they are then more capable of crafting conditions that then enable them to navigate life’s obstacles. When one embraces reason only then they can legitimately have hope.


Hahaha… I just realized the damn thing probably reads exactly as the title described. A manual.



posted on Nov, 13 2013 @ 11:53 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


the Latin of "religion" is "to link back".

using the latin, atheists perpetuating a 'tradition', even so loosely defined as periodic meetings at a specified location, is the very definition of a religion.

the only reason anyone wishes to convert another person to anything is because they believe themselves to be super awesome. the information that they are proselytizing is merely a proxy for their own self image..... only awesome people would understand such and such dogma this and that.

I am more than happy to step in voluntarily to assure people that they suck, just like the rest of us.



posted on Nov, 13 2013 @ 11:56 PM
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tothetenthpower

This is annoying to me, this whole book concept.

Atheism is ABOUT NOTHING. Creating stuff like this and having 'churches' is just turning atheism into a religion.

People will cry foul and claim that it isn't, but that's the truth. Religious folk get together to worship their own words and ideas every week and to spread their message and fund their locations.

Atheism is effectively doing the same thing with this book.

~Tenth


Well, I that coming, in fact, I wrote to Richard Dawkins trying to explain to him that he spent his whole book complaining about religion existing, and that hardly proves it doesn't exist. People are naturally drawn towards having a religion, the mechanics of it need to be studied, not denied - denial never helped anyone.

So, atheists wanting to come together into a community is entirely natural and predictable, even. I don't know what else to say about it, except maybe they should consider themselves Secular Humanists or something.

I think the original atheism was a good idea, I think these new atheists are acting like positive Christians, and I think Christians have gone off their rocker, and I actually can't see what's coming next, I'm exhausted. I never thought I'd see our country go so far backwards. Maybe it's necessary.
edit on 13pmWed, 13 Nov 2013 23:58:50 -0600kbpmkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 12:22 AM
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reply to post by Grimpachi
 

Dear Grimpachi,

I'm glad for the chance to talk with you again. I was really looking forward to this thread when I saw that a manual had been prepared showing the way to bring people to Atheism. I thought I would learn the flaws in religious thinking that were so gross they would compel someone to abandon their faith. I watched both videos and read the article (I'm too cheap to buy the book.) And, I'm sorry to report that I was disappointed again.


I’ve never really understood how removing a bad way to reason will make it difficult to get through the day.
OK, so he's established what a right way to reason is. I suppose we can't disagree? 2000 years of Catholic scholars would disagree, they would tell him that reason and evidence is the bedrock of their belief.

Boghassian (or however it's spelled) claims that religion is based on nothing but faith in something that is unknowable. As another poster pointed out, that charge can be made against Atheism. By claiming he can't see the connection between faith and getting through the day, he separates himself from the mass of the world who rely on it in one form or the other, most spectacularly perhaps from those in the WWII camps.

He also confuses the meaning of the word faith. He seems to think it is belief in something there is no evidence for. That's one definition, perhaps, but it's not the one religious people would use. In fact, that is not the first definition that dictionaries give (at least in my quick search) the first definition is usually "Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing."

So Professor Boghassian sets up a straw man and proceeds to tear it down. As yet another poster put it, "Nothing new."

Sorry Grimpachi, I really tried.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 12:22 AM
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AliceBleachWhite
Actually, just drop the darned book until it rains from the sky everywhere sufficiently enough such that we're up to our knees in it, everywhere, yes, everywhere.

Manna from Heaven, eh? I thought messages from the sky are precisely what Atheists don't believe in.



posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 01:09 AM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


Hey Charles

Again a reasonable response from you. When I quoted from the article I wasn’t endorsing what he said but pointing out to the poster I was responding to that he/she was making an argument that was covered in the source. I was a bit surprised someone would make that case in this particular thread given the circumstances.

Unless I run across the book at a store I will probably never even flip through the pages so I am not trying to endorse the contents. I have come to think some people are either hardwired to believe in the supernatural or they aren’t and trying to convert them is an exercise in futility.

I do enjoy talking on the subject in these threads but in my everyday life I learned to stay away from topics involving religion or politics there are just too much of a chance that friendships can be strained.

Anyway back to the quote. I am not saying that is the correct answer just that I wish the poster had been aware that there’s was one of the few examples given at the source article however I know there are a great many people who do not read them which is a shame. T&C states we can’t quote the entirety of them although I have seen exceptions.

The main thing I gathered from the article is in conversations the definition of faith would be defined satisfactorily and it is the faith that he wants people to go after which is what’s a bit different I think. If someone in the past told me they took something on faith then at least for me that was fine the discussion was normally ended there but this book is saying that’s where it should begin.

I find it all kind of interesting but I don’t have any desire to try and convert people and I really don’t feel like learning a script. But just wait and see it is only a matter of time before someone in these threads try’s to do just that.



posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 01:22 AM
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reply to post by Grimpachi
 

Dear Grimpachi,

You've provided me with another reason to believe I was absolutely right to call you a friend.

I don't fault anything you said in the OP. This is an important book to know about, and I believe you were just encouraging people to consider what it had to say. You made it perfectly clear that you weren't endorsing or attacking it, just throwing it on the table for comments. I certainly wasn't disappointed in you, I suppose I set my expectations for the book too high.

What this points out, to me at least, is that the divide between believer and non-believer still exists and that no one has been able to introduce successfully a way for the two sides to talk with each other. Despite what the good professor had to say about blunt, forthright speech being essential, I'm going to strive for respecting, understanding, and loving those I disagree with. I suspect you're the same.

With respect,
Charles1952





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