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Why, athiests! Why?

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posted on Nov, 12 2013 @ 09:41 PM
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Just to clarify right off the get go, I am an atheist. After reading a few topics and talking to a few people today, I must ask this!

Why does the label atheist, even in the eyes of many (if not most) atheists, mean the added disbelief in the paranormal?

Everyone knows that to be an atheist the only rule is a lack of belief in any deities, gods or any other higher power that would resemble a god-like being. So why do I hear atheists say "I don't believe in ghosts because I am an atheist." And the converted say that "I've experienced something I can't explain which is why I am no longer an atheist".

I believe this mindset is deeply engrained in the thoughts of most people, but I also believe it is a simple misconception widely thought to be fact. My fiancé initially thought the same thing before we met. Considering an atheist to believe in nothing, which was the only factor for her not titling herself an atheist.

Why is it that paranormal has to be religious? Ghosts and all that. Specifics such as angels and demons which are directly manifested from religious backgrounds and depict very specific beings that relate directly to sacred texts, should not be considered possible if atheist. But why ghosts? Or even more sinister entities? Is there no other explanation than a religious one?

Personally I believe that there can be other explanations. And yet still hold my atheistic standpoint strong.

Are there any others out there that feel the same way? And if not, what do you think about my rant???




posted on Nov, 12 2013 @ 10:02 PM
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reply to post by Ghost147
 




Why does the label atheist, even in the eyes of many (if not most) atheists, mean the added disbelief in the paranormal?


I would say the reason is because the belief in anything without evidence is illogical. Religion's foundation rests on belief in that which has zero evidence and most likely will never have any evidence. Atheists are all about reason and logic, which prevents belief in that which is not logical or reasonable.

Belief in the paranormal is much the same. While there is some evidence, this evidence is shaky at best in most cases. Believing in something that has not, or can not be proven is the polar opposite of what an atheist stands for.

Now that doesn't mean that atheists cant be interested in something without believing it to be real. This is how i approach the paranormal. I am fully interested in it, everything from cryptozoology to aliens and ghosts. This doesn't mean i believe any of it exists in reality, but some of the evidence is compelling at the very least.

Whether its ghosts, bigfoot, God, or an entire race of gods, show an atheist legitimate evidence and they will change their tune. Isn't that what being an atheist is all about, using the scientific method to determine the truth?

DC



posted on Nov, 12 2013 @ 10:09 PM
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reply to post by Ghost147
 

There are a lot of misconceptions about what it is to be an atheist. The stereotypes run from mild to wild. I suspect because religion is so prevalent in our society, people try to relate the concept of atheism to what they know best. Religion. Even some "atheists" have the same misconceptions, as you just pointed out. It seems to be part and parcel of bowing out of the groupthink.



posted on Nov, 12 2013 @ 10:12 PM
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reply to post by Ghost147
 

Because to acknowledge the paranormal one has to believe that there is such a thing as a soul/lifeforce and that there is an afterlife or desembodied entities with no mass yet affect the physical relm which by physic`s standards is impossible to do. Technically there is no solid evidence that science has produced to actually explain any paranormal activity; but what it has come up with is an explanation which is very mundane in the form of psychosis and other mental conditions that give the impression of said phenomena. That is why most hardcore atheist don`t believe in the paranormal.



posted on Nov, 12 2013 @ 10:57 PM
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xDeadcowx
reply to post by Ghost147
 




Why does the label atheist, even in the eyes of many (if not most) atheists, mean the added disbelief in the paranormal?


I would say the reason is because the belief in anything without evidence is illogical.

Yes, but atheism doesn't automatically mean logical
Someone may choose no belief in a deity simply because someone said so, or because they seen a dead kitten and thought gods cannot exist and let the poor kitten deaths go unaccounted for, etc.
The problem you just did there is prescribing more attributes on a atheist than need.
Does pizza require anchovi's, beef tomato paste, and garlic bread to be considered a pizza?

A atheist can believe anything they want, just the one single caveat is that they have no belief in any deity, but even then, they can hope, speculate, entertain the notion of such things.

A atheist can believe in the following and still be an atheist: Aliens, Ghosts, Santa, Dragons, Elves, Tom Cruise, Invisible Interdimensional Watchers, Trans Fat, Lochness Monster, etc etc etc.




Religion's foundation rests on belief in that which has zero evidence and most likely will never have any evidence.

True
But then again, we still have no concept of self, we have some general understanding of how the machine works, but consciousness and the sense of id is elusive..does that mean it categorically doesn't exist? no..after all, I know I am me and if a copy was run off, I would still be me and the copy would be a copy with his own sense of self independent of me.
So, science cannot disprove it, because there is nothing to disprove, or nothing that can be anyhow given our current tools.
But lack of evidence does not mean evidence lacking. keeping an open mind is paramount to all things.

Atheists tend to have a more skeptical nature in general, which is why a lot of atheists are also very skeptical about all things not proven...but this is not a requirement, it is simply a observable understanding of the atheists general mindset



posted on Nov, 12 2013 @ 11:08 PM
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After listening to some clips by Richard Dawkins in the past, I actually got a bit of an opposite message.

Atheism actually tolerates all kinds of belief, and hence God is as believable or unbelievable as leprechauns, fairies, demons or indeed, ghosts.

The question is if there is any proof for these creatures according to scientific methods and scrutiny, beyond mere anecdotes and claims.

Proof would make it fact, and that renders it beyond mere "belief" or religious "theism".
edit on 12-11-2013 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 12 2013 @ 11:33 PM
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xDeadcowx
I would say the reason is because the belief in anything without evidence is illogical. Religion's foundation rests on belief in that which has zero evidence and most likely will never have any evidence. Atheists are all about reason and logic, which prevents belief in that which is not logical or reasonable.

Belief in the paranormal is much the same. While there is some evidence, this evidence is shaky at best in most cases. Believing in something that has not, or can not be proven is the polar opposite of what an atheist stands for.


This is precisely my issue. I hate to be stereotypical or unbearably cliche, but, although scientifically unproven (ghosts, i'm referring to), there are events I and others have experienced that would be proof of some sort of entity-like phenomena that would otherwise be conclusive evidence at the time of the event. God, I hate when people say stuff like that. BUT! unfortunate-copy-and-past text aside, it is never the less true. I'll refrain from going off topic with the subject.

Alas, It is my belief that most atheists who hold the position of "no ghosts allowed", simply haven't or may not be able to experience such events. Although I too hold the exact same mentality of responsible skepticism and a logical standpoint, these specific phenomena are legitimate through personal experience. Frustratingly so, considering the difficulty of providing replicable proof.

So i believe we are on the same page already, you and I. Although I would say it would be illogical to place Alien life - especially - with other paranormal types. Simply mathematically impossible to be non existent.




nergalbanda1
reply to post by Ghost147
 

Because to acknowledge the paranormal one has to believe that there is such a thing as a soul/lifeforce and that there is an afterlife or desembodied entities with no mass yet affect the physical relm which by physic`s standards is impossible to do. Technically there is no solid evidence that science has produced to actually explain any paranormal activity; but what it has come up with is an explanation which is very mundane in the form of psychosis and other mental conditions that give the impression of said phenomena. That is why most hardcore atheist don`t believe in the paranormal.


I agree with you to some degree. Although, as I stated in my original post, I do not believe that it is necessary to correlate entities with souls.



posted on Nov, 12 2013 @ 11:59 PM
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reply to post by Ghost147
 


Not admitting to the existence of paranormal phenomena should not be attributed to a person's position as an atheist. Instead, it should be attributed to skepticism and critical thinking. I often use these processes to combat credulity and to resist the temptation to fall prey to sugar-coated beliefs, irrespective of my atheism.

I think the general layperson has a misunderstanding of exactly what atheism encompasses. That pretty much cripples their initial attitude toward us and mistakenly colors us as devil worshipers, Beliebers, and commandment-breaking heathens.

I had to explain this to my mom, and she replied that my atheism is just a phase that I'll eventually grow out of lol.



posted on Nov, 13 2013 @ 12:09 AM
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reply to post by Ghost147
 

Oh I quite agree with not needing to equate entities with souls but alot of people do which is why alot of people disbelieve both. The only thing alot of people seem to forget is that people have an energy system about their bodies (as neural impulses and low leval radiation traces) in order to give them the spark of life; take that away and one just becomes a vegetable (not literaly of course but in a vegetative state) that eventually fades, but that energy cannot be destroyed it just changes form. Even science can`t truly explain life fully but science can explain some spirituality in that way. In my opinion at least.

edit on 11 06 13 by nergalbanda1 because: added explanation



posted on Nov, 13 2013 @ 01:30 AM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 

That was OUTSTANDING! [Pretend this is a triple "thumbs up"!]

Being agnostic, I also "have no belief in God", and the ONLY thing that distinguishes me from many atheists is the lack of a BELIEF that God does not exist. When confronted with this idea, they often respond with: "That is not a belief! I have no belief in God!" To me, that seems about as ILLOGICAL as one can get. It's even worse when they use that to justify their previous claims of "There is no God!"

You did such a GREAT job of explaining atheism in that post, I'd love to read your thoughts on the above.

Sincerely,
Milt



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