And You Thought We Were Nuts? This Is The Dangers Of Explaining The Bible Without Discernment

People have been arguing back and forth a lot about what is the proper way to interpret the Bible, who should interpret the Bible and why not interpret it yourself? Well, those are all good questions and it is always good to question everything, however, one should never think they know everything and never assume they are correct in everything.

Here are some thoughts from a person who interpreted the Bible for himself...

John 1:1 Wisdom was created before everything. God represents a way of living one’s life. God holds and stands by wisdom, love, and justice. They are one. [The]woman is in all of us. She represents our subconscious. She is inside of us always making good and bad decisions. Man represents male and female. The garden or field in the Bible is the inner workings of our minds. God developed man [humans, male and female] through stages in the evolution of our minds. We as humans have not yet awakened from the deep sleep and we have not become one with our inner woman [subconscious]. We have not shed our clothes [bad behavior] and become naked. Living as God [a way of life] our creator intended.

The serpent in the Garden of Eden [our minds] represents our subconscious and our conscious talking to each other. Like the battle sometimes we have within ourselves. Telling us to do something even when you know it’s wrong or has the potential to be wrong or dangerous if you have never had the experience of doing it, how can you ever win the battle? So the woman [Eve in the garden, our subconscious] gave the apple [a new experience] to her husband [our subconscious, Adam]. Our creator knew the only way to develop man so he could one day become like God was to let man learn through experience. The breath of life our creator breathed into all was the freedom to make choices, good and bad.

That’s why he gave us a helper [our subconscious, our inner woman] to be with us through our journey of learning. From the very beginning we have struggled with the way of God and our minds. The story of Cain and Abel represents the turmoil with us. Cain is the negative input we encounter every day and the consequences of letting those thoughts take over. Abel is what we know is right but don’t always listen to. And when we let Cain [the negative] win, we kill Abel [our sense of what’s right]. But as with all aspects of our life, we have the ability to change and grow and learn from our mistakes. Our inner woman can be good or bad depending on the choices we make in life.

Dugard, Jaycee (2011-07-12). A Stolen Life (p. 190). Simon & Schuster, Inc.. Kindle Edition.

That all sounds wonderfully great, doesn't it? That's some powerful teaching from a gnostic mind, clearly expressive of what is going on. The only problem is that the man who taught this, was Philip Garrido, who kidnapped Jaycee Dugard and held her captive for 18 years.

When we don't have a firm grasp on reality, what can happen to us when we interpret the Bible out of that? The man also said he could hear voices from a black box and wrote a manifesto called The Origins Of Schizophrenia Revealedthat he not only wrote, but took to the FBI office in San Francisco just before the day he went to Berkley, where he was caught finally.

Just because something sounds so wonderful that it makes perfect sense to you, does not mean it is right or true. It made perfect sense to him. And from his own words on his blog Voices Revealed

What is interesting is that I have read on ATS, in these very threads, people saying exactly the same things he did. And one would assume that he were a Christian based on his usage of the Bible passages, however, it must be pointed out that he NEVER claimed Christianity. But he revised Bible interpretation as a gnostic and if people did not know what he was, they would be naive to assume he was a Christian. And so many threads and posts are filled with comments about how they see God.

But it doesn't end there, take for instance this lady who claims all is connected and she is going to prove how it is all connected to her. And I have seen so many people on here also make so many random connections, as though they are in everything.

This person believes they are Sandra Oh, and that TPTB have stolen her identity. I see also people connecting words to develop a theology that on the surface sounds very wonderful, but digging deeper, it ends up being nothing more than word association.

Why am I pointing these out, to make examples of them? Because they are inherently dangerous, because they have the power to convince against what is real. To these people, what they write is real. And I see it every day on ATS, in these threads. ATS is a good forum, don't get me wrong. I like ATS, but when people read what is written, sometimes they leave with the impression that Christianity, or whatever religion, are crazy nutters. And conspiracy theorists, to make so many random connections, it really is sad. But what to do? We can't stop their freedom of speech and press, we can only say what is right or wrong, and too often, by that time, it is too late.

I was raised to believe that the Old Testament was somwhat of a history story. The book of Genesis was just a way to explain things to inquiring minds... so a lot of it is fiction.

The New Testament, i was taught, was meant to be taken literal but it was meant as a means of guidance for morals, ethics, and and over-all being a good human being. ~ Christ teachings are the way, the truth and the light.

WarminIndy
Why am I pointing these out, to make examples of them? Because they are inherently dangerous, because they have the power to convince against what is real. To these people, what they write is real. And I see it every day on ATS, in these threads. ATS is a good forum, don't get me wrong. I like ATS, but when people read what is written, sometimes they leave with the impression that Christianity, or whatever religion, are crazy nutters. And conspiracy theorists, to make so many random connections, it really is sad. But what to do? We can't stop their freedom of speech and press, we can only say what is right or wrong, and too often, by that time, it is too late.

Interesting comments, but how is it wrong to assume that one person's version of god is wrong?
What do you mean by "it's too late"?

That's about as ridiculous as the Scofield Reference Bible.

Divine Strake

WarminIndy

Interesting comments, but how is it wrong to assume that one person's version of god is wrong?
What do you mean by "it's too late"?

edit on 11 12 2013 by Divine Strake because: (no reason given)

Jim Jones...

It was too late by the time they discovered he was not Jesus.

OptimusSubprime
That's about as ridiculous as the Scofield Reference Bible.

I don't have a Scofield.

I've heard that people do have them, but not me.

reply to post by WarminIndy

"John 1:1 Wisdom was created before everything. God represents a way of living one’s life. God holds and stands by wisdom, love, and justice.

---You are right on the Gnostic count. He is speaking of Sophia and her fall into the material word. Gnostics believe that the God of the OT is evil.

They are one.

---I assume he is saying that Sophia and God are one.

[The]woman is in all of us. She represents our subconscious. She is inside of us always making good and bad decisions. Man represents male and female. The garden or field in the Bible is the inner workings of our minds.

---Although he would be technically correct with the mother (Aleph Mem) being in all of us, the correct way to see this is the Son of God (Colossians 1). He reveals himself here as he is not pointing to Christ.

God developed man [humans, male and female] through stages in the evolution of our minds. We as humans have not yet awakened from the deep sleep and we have not become one with our inner woman [subconscious]. We have not shed our clothes [bad behavior] and become naked. Living as God [a way of life] our creator intended.

---He denies God created, but uses developed. He then uses soul sleep, which is a Mormon concept. The concept of soul sleep does have some echoes in scripture, but this is more of a New Age version relating again to the Pistis Sophia.

The serpent in the Garden of Eden [our minds] represents our subconscious and our conscious talking to each other. Like the battle sometimes we have within ourselves. Telling us to do something even when you know it’s wrong or has the potential to be wrong or dangerous if you have never had the experience of doing it, how can you ever win the battle? So the woman [Eve in the garden, our subconscious] gave the apple [a new experience] to her husband [our subconscious, Adam]. Our creator knew the only way to develop man so he could one day become like God was to let man learn through experience. The breath of life our creator breathed into all was the freedom to make choices, good and bad.

---He has a mixed bag of concepts here, some relating to the ideas of Freud and Jung. Some of this is simply his own assumptions not grounded in scripture.

That’s why he gave us a helper [our subconscious, our inner woman] to be with us through our journey of learning. From the very beginning we have struggled with the way of God and our minds. The story of Cain and Abel represents the turmoil with us. Cain is the negative input we encounter every day and the consequences of letting those thoughts take over. Abel is what we know is right but don’t always listen to. And when we let Cain [the negative] win, we kill Abel [our sense of what’s right]. But as with all aspects of our life, we have the ability to change and grow and learn from our mistakes. Our inner woman can be good or bad depending on the choices we make in life.

---Looks like he failed to listen to his own theology. Giving is the will of God. He became a thief form the story Dugard outlines. LINK

Interesting thread. The problem here is not his ideology as much as a problem with the heart. This is not a Christian thing at all. It's a condition that appears in every thread of human thought. If we isolate Christians, we are essentially denying that anyone else goes crazy with these same internal issues. Prejudice starts this way, so I would caution anyone to not throw a light on one group of people.

There are wackos in every corner of this world, not just religion. The problem is not religion. True religion is the answer.

James 1:27

Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

reply to post by WarminIndy


the bible is not to be taken literally,
Yet the idiots the world over do so, still. To heck with dinosaurs they say.

reply to post by WarminIndy


Ah, yes, quite a mess that was, eh?

reply to post by WarminIndy


This is the crux of it to me. A book is written, adapted, changed, manipulated and then as you said....

"People have been arguing back and forth a lot about what is the proper way to interpret the Bible, who should interpret the Bible and why not interpret it yourself?"

Then...We're left with a horse race pretty much!

minkmouse
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

This is the crux of it to me. A book is written, adapted, changed, manipulated and then as you said....

"People have been arguing back and forth a lot about what is the proper way to interpret the Bible, who should interpret the Bible and why not interpret it yourself?"

Then...We're left with a horse race pretty much!

What resolves a paradox?

Suppose a train engineer and a friend argue over the whistle of the train. The friend says the whistle changes pitch. The engineer, who rides with the whistle, says it does not change. Who is right? Only the whistle.

The friend is speaking from a frame of reference that is fixed. The engineer is traveling with the whistle. His frame of reference is fixed to the whistle. The Doppler Effect resolves the paradox. In the end, they were both right.

Truth is the whistle. Its melody blows no matter what we think of it from our own frame of reference.

reply to post by EnochWasRight



Truth of the whistle aside, I'm not seeing the paradox. The horses will race, win and lose forever! all the time they spend racing will only ever deliver a win for one horse, one race, and a payout for those who believed enough to wager. I totally agree with your point on perspective though

reply to post by WarminIndy


Wow, that was one of the most brilliant and IMO useful interpretations of the bible I have ever heard. And no, I do not believe this interpretation is tainted just because the interpreter was a tainted human being. To believe such would be an utterly small minded and arrogant stance. Hitler may have been the leading force behind making the Autobahn a success , which thus lead the US to replicate it with our interstate highway system, but that doesn't mean that hitting the on ramp makes you a supporter of national socialism.

minkmouse
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Truth of the whistle aside, I'm not seeing the paradox. The horses will race, win and lose forever! all the time they spend racing will only ever deliver a win for one horse, one race, and a payout for those who believed enough to wager. I totally agree with your point on perspective though

edit on 12-11-2013 by minkmouse because: (no reason given)

What about the paradox in relation to the race? Could it be that the one losing the bet eventually stops betting on the loser? In this case, the loser continues to be the same horse. Over and over again. I hold out for the day when all bets are placed on the winner. As it turns out, that horse continues to win again and again.

I bet the train engineer and the friend figure it out in the end.

Both the engineer and the friend will figure it out but they will spend the spoils of their understanding differently.

reply to post by WarminIndy

Dear WarminIndy,

Thank you. Excellent OP. A vital subject handled with thoughtfulness and honesty.

I think I understand your point, but as I'm confused and dissatisfied by the other responses, I might be entirely wrong in my understanding. Please check me out to see where I go wrong.

If everyone interprets the Bible for themselves (one extreme), then the image minkmouse creates of a horse race is insufficient. It's not a race, because in a race everyone starts at the same place and attempts to get to the same finish line as quickly as possible. With individual interpretations, people run or stroll or crawl in any direction, and wherever they decide to stop, they declare that to be the true finish line.

When "whatever you think it means" is the standard for truth, then there is no truth. If something is true, than whatever contradicts that something is false. But for those who interpret for themselves, there is no such thing as false, therefore there is no such thing as true.

Another problem with personal interpretation is that we're all fallible people. The chances of any single person interpreting the entire Bible truly cannot be distinguished from microscopic. And if that person has a personality that is in the least disturbed, his thinking and his interpretation will also be disturbed.

John 1:1 Wisdom was created before everything. God represents a way of living one’s life.

I couldn't get past the first two sentences before I knew I was in trouble. The interpretation presented is heretical and damning if believed and carried out to it's logical conclusion. (Pace RatoAstuto.)

Consider what the Bible actually says in John 1:1. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." How anyone can go from that to "Wisdom was created before everything," is beyond me.

And how can we reach the conclusion that God represents a way of life? What does that even mean? I'm afraid we might never know. Is he saying that the Eternal God acts in a certain way, therefore the way He acts is the way we should act? If so, is he talking about Jesus' life on earth? What does the word "represents" add to our understanding? Where does he get the idea of a represented way of life from John 1?

Basically, it's hopeless and an excellent example of what happens when someone says "The Bible means what I think it means."

Ideally, the Bible would be interpreted by people who were close in time and culture to the actual writing. That understanding would be passed through the years being checked, considered, prayed over, and guided by God's spirit.

If an individual, or even a group, spends thirty years researching a new and dramatically different interpretation, I'm willing to bet it's seriously wrong. It may use new and intriguing language, or it may use familiar language with different meanings, but it will be wrong.

Am I close to what you were thinking?

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952


Charles1952

Yes, that was what I had meant. The most fundamental thing about understanding the Bible is that it is divinely inspired, therefore must be divinely interpreted, from the one who gave the message.

And without that divine messenger, there can be no true message. Imagine this, someone needing help and sends out --- ... --- instead of ... --- ... then the person who knows Morse Code will still know something is making the sound, but if you tap it out the right way, then it is clearly meant SOS. And that is so important to receiving the message and thereby transmitting the right message. Didn't Paul say that when he talked about the signals of the trumpets? He said if the hearer does not know it, or the wrong signal is sent, then the hearer is confused. Every trumpet signal was important, one had to know whether to arm themselves or if the Sabbath had started.

1 Corinthians 14: 7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? 8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? 9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. 10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification. 11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.

There are so many voices in the world, but if I don't know the meaning of the voice then we are barbarians to each other, meaning that we simply would not understand each other. We hear many voices in Bible interpretation, but if I don't know the voice of God, then how shall I understand Him?

That is discernment, to know God and know what He says, so that there can be no misunderstanding between us.

RatoAstuto
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

Wow, that was one of the most brilliant and IMO useful interpretations of the bible I have ever heard. And no, I do not believe this interpretation is tainted just because the interpreter was a tainted human being. To believe such would be an utterly small minded and arrogant stance. Hitler may have been the leading force behind making the Autobahn a success , which thus lead the US to replicate it with our interstate highway system, but that doesn't mean that hitting the on ramp makes you a supporter of national socialism.

edit on 12-11-2013 by RatoAstuto because: (no reason given)

And thus is how cults are born. Someone says something pretty, but pretty wrong, and someone believes it just a little bit, then something more wrong is said, until the follower has drunk the purple kool-aid and fell to sleep never to wake up again, still hoping for the mothership to take them home, or vultures to eat them up in a jungle.

WarminIndy



Jim Jones...

It was too late by the time they discovered he was not Jesus.

It could have been a good joke, but the punch line was too long.

reply to post by Lazarus Short


ooooh, bad one!