Why God Exist!!!?

MadMax9
reply to post by edmc^2

 

For people to admit God exists requires a response to him. Man does not want to do that so it's easier to say God not exist but space time and aliens do.

No it just requires that God show himself in a way that satisfies the unbeliever. He is supposed to be infinitely powerful, so he should know how to reveal himself individually to each and every person on the planet to leave zero doubt in their mind that he is the creator. God would know this is the case, yet chooses not to reveal himself using this method.

It's also easier to believe in evolution even though that requires more faith than believing in a being outside our understood time and space where all our existence is as if a split second.

Um, no it doesn't. Evolution is backed up by credible science. Does it explain everything? No, but that was never a claim that evolution or scientists who study it ever made. It also doesn't fill in the blanks with copout answers based on blind faith. It may fill in the blanks with educated guesses based on research, but it is always noted as such and as long as new evidence doesn't debunk these guesses, they can be upheld as probably true. I would say that believing something based on blind faith requires FAR more faith than believing something with much supporting evidence corroborating it. You are just being willfully ignorant here.

But ignorance does not prove the inexistance of something. Microbes do not believe humans exist because they are outside their understanding and their time and space relating to their form of existence.

Microbes also don't contemplate the existence of higher powers that may or may not have created them. But you bring up a good point, but you need to elaborate on it more. Ignorance doesn't prove the non-existence of something, but it doesn't prove its existence either. The fact remains we don't know one way or the other that a God exists or doesn't exist. This is indisputable.

reply to post by edmc^2


After reading through the thread, i have a question for you.

What makes this "God" you speak of any different from an alien? Power? Ability? Knowledge?

The ability to traverse spacetime is only a matter of having the right technology and knowledge of the mechanics of the universe and spacetime. For all we know some race of hyper-intelligent aliens from another dimension did some experiment which cause a big-bang in our universe.

You are assuming that this being is a single "God". Im sure this is due to the modern monotheistic mindset most people have. 3000 years ago when posing this same philosophical question you probably would have replaced your single "God" with multiple Gods, or a race of Gods.

The point im trying to make here is that there is no clear line between what most would call a "God" and an ancient species of alien we know nothing about. We can guess all day, but until something happens to point us in the right direction, all we are doing is throwing arbitrary guesses at the wall hoping they stick.

DC

reply to post by edmc^2

If space-time exist and that it had no beginning and end, even uncreated, why not God?

"God" and "space-time" are similar insofar as they are both words and concepts. Language is not a 1-to-1 ratio with the universe, yet we are prone to label things, events and phenomena as best we can.

The question should be: What phenomena do we label space/time? We label our mathematical models regarding space and time "spacetime", and we hold on to them because they simplify our descriptions. People don't believe in something called "spacetime", they believe that these mathematical models simplify our descriptions.

What phenomena do we label God? ...

Both are entirely abstract, but only one cares to admit this.

reply to post by edmc^2


Everything in the universe exists because of something. So to say the whole universe exists
because of nothing would be ignoring the evidence. And if we simply do not ignore the evidence?
Then there can be only answer as to why the universe exists.
The answer would be our concept of deity. After all why would there even be such a concept in
existence. I once new a man who said, " If the river makes noise ? There must be something in it ".
OP's right, it's a simple question. And the answer has been purpousely complicated.

randyvs
reply to post by edmc^2

 

Everything in the universe exists because of something. So to say the whole universe exists
because of nothing would be ignoring the evidence. And if we simply do not ignore the evidence?
Then there can be only answer as to why the universe exists.
The answer would be our concept of deity. After all why would there even be such a concept in
existence. I once new a man who said, " If the river makes noise ? There must be something in it ".
OP's right, it's a simple question. And the answer has been purpousely complicated.

There is no evidence to suggest that the universe has a purpose or direction. That is just wishful thinking on the part of humans who want there to be more to everything than what they can currently see, hear, and touch. That isn't to say that there isn't a purpose or direction to the universe, just that we aren't aware of one and have no evidence of such.

reply to post by Krazysh0t

There is no evidence to suggest that the universe has a purpose or direction. That is just wishful thinking on the part of humans who want there to be more to everything than what they can currently see, hear, and touch. That isn't to say that there isn't a purpose or direction to the universe, just that we aren't aware of one and have no evidence of such

Did you just totally and willfully contradict yourself ?
I can't wait to read your answer.

reply to post by randyvs


No, read it a little closer. I am maintaining an ambivalent view on the matter. The universe may or may not have a purpose or direction. The only thing we know right now about this is we don't have any evidence to say that it does, therefore to include that as a premise to suggest that God exists is flawed logic since the premise cannot be proven to be true. This is required for a logical argument to be sound and valid. May I suggest you invest in reading comprehension classes?

edmc^2
If space-time exist and that it had no beginning and end, even uncreated, why not God?

Because you're trying to explain away a complex thing with an infinitely more complex thing. You think it's unlikely that the Universe just came to be? Did you ever wonder, just what are the odds for something much more complex, like some Universe creating entity, just becoming. The God-believing type usually cop out from this by saying that God always was, but again, a far more simple explanation would be that the potential for the becoming of the Universe always was. When it comes to Occam's razor, God always loses.

reply to post by Krazysh0t


Alright , I'll grant that there is a big difference between knowing and believing.

May I suggest you invest in reading comprehension classes?

I think I had just cause for the question,

As the Scripture explicitly stated:

Stopped reading right here.

reply to post by edmc^2

For example, we know that spacetime is both uncreated and infinite, that "IT" always existed. Yet why is this NOT proof enough of the existence of an incorporeal uncreated and infinite being - God?

I would say that Space is the only dimension that cant have been created. IT must have always existed and is the only dimension that will always exist. Time on the other hand must have been formed. But time is a big topic. It takes time to form time. It tok time to form Our universe.

Without a infinite empty Space there would not be a Place to form time.

xDeadcowx
reply to post by edmc^2

 

After reading through the thread, i have a question for you.

What makes this "God" you speak of any different from an alien? Power? Ability? Knowledge?

The ability to traverse spacetime is only a matter of having the right technology and knowledge of the mechanics of the universe and spacetime. For all we know some race of hyper-intelligent aliens from another dimension did some experiment which cause a big-bang in our universe.

You are assuming that this being is a single "God". Im sure this is due to the modern monotheistic mindset most people have. 3000 years ago when posing this same philosophical question you probably would have replaced your single "God" with multiple Gods, or a race of Gods.

The point im trying to make here is that there is no clear line between what most would call a "God" and an ancient species of alien we know nothing about. We can guess all day, but until something happens to point us in the right direction, all we are doing is throwing arbitrary guesses at the wall hoping they stick.

DC

edit on 11/12/2013 by xDeadcowx because: (no reason given)

I would say overwhelmingly from the physical standpoint - Power and Knowledge. But the thing is, this Entity that I talk of is NOT an Alien being as described in many textbooks. No! In fact, He's like us or from the other point of view, we're like him but of a higher stuff than us. We're like him in essence in that we have his attributes - but at a certain degree.

Here's what I mean.

Many say that "miracles" are impossible to happen because they are beyond science and the physical laws that we know of. Yet everyday we create "miracles". Take for example our technology today. How would you think people will react if you take the same technology to people living 1000 years ago? Would you think that they will say "it's a miracle"! Imagine them seeing "small person talking and moving inside a small box - called iphone". Yet to us this is nothing.

Here's another, more than a hundred years ago, they said that it's impossible to 'transform lead into gold" yet today it's not only possible but doable as it was already done!

Consider this report:

Transmutation of lead into gold isn't just theoretically possible - it has been achieved!..

Today particle accelerators routinely transmute elements. A charged particle is accelerated using electrical and/or magnetic fields. In a linear accelerator, the charged particles drift through a series of charged tubes separated by gaps. Every time the particle emerges between gaps, it is accelerated by the potential difference between adjacent segments. In a circular accelerator, magnetic fields accelerate particles moving in circular paths. In either case, the accelerated particle impacts a target material, potentially knocking free protons or neutrons and making a new element or isotope. Nuclear reactors also may used for creating elements, although the conditions are less controlled.

chemistry.about.com...

By changing the atomic sub-structure of an element we change its molecular structure (of course it it take a lot of energy and knowledge how to do it).

Here's another.

Immortality:

Scientist speculate that time will come when we will finally find the gene that shortens the length of our "telemares". And if we do then we can conquer old-age.

Invisibility:

A researcher at the University of Texas at Austin has devised an invisibility cloak that could work over a broad range of frequencies, including visible light and microwaves. This is a significant upgrade from current invisibility cloaks that only cloak a very specific frequency — say, a few hertz in the microwave band — and, more importantly, actually make cloaked objects more visible to other frequencies. The UT Austin cloak would achieve this goal by being active and electrically powered, rather than dumb and passive like existing invisibility cloaks.

www.extremetech.com...


I can go on and on but the point is - if we have the "attributes" to gain the "knowledge" of the things around us, of "how stuff works", including the universe then why is the existence of God a "mystery" or a "miracle"?

The fact that we're also capable of transforming energy into matter, why is then a "mystery" when it comes to the ONE who has the Power and Knowledge to transform enormous amount of "dynamic energy" into "matter" (E=mc2) - the material universe?

And if time/space is a reality, that "IT" exists, why not God?

There is motion and rest.
The rest sees the motion and labels it time. The rest forgets itself and thinks it is moving in time and space.

It appears that there is space for people to move around (in the tv) when watching a movie but it appears on a flat screen.

The audience is seated and still and the movie moves.

spy66
reply to post by edmc^2

 

For example, we know that spacetime is both uncreated and infinite, that "IT" always existed. Yet why is this NOT proof enough of the existence of an incorporeal uncreated and infinite being - God?

I would say that Space is the only dimension that cant have been created. IT must have always existed and is the only dimension that will always exist. Time on the other hand must have been formed. But time is a big topic. It takes time to form time. It tok time to form Our universe.

Without a infinite empty Space there would not be a Place to form time.

Thus "time" is "space and "space" is "time" - one can't exist without the other - uncreated always existing.

We accept this to be a fact and understand them to be a fact. Yet, why is it hard to accept the concept of of an "Eternal Being" - an uncreated, incorporeal Entity we call God?

edmc^2
I can go on and on but the point is - if we have the "attributes" to gain the "knowledge" of the things around us, of "how stuff works", including the universe then why is the existence of God a "mystery" or a "miracle"?

The fact that we're also capable of transforming energy into matter, why is then a "mystery" when it comes to the ONE who has the Power and Knowledge to transform enormous amount of "dynamic energy" into "matter" (E=mc2) - the material universe?

And if time/space is a reality, that "IT" exists, why not God?

You are saying that if we can transform energy into matter, then why couldn't God? Sure, I agree. But does God exist? How is any of this related to that question?

edmc^2

Thus "time" is "space and "space" is "time" - one can't exist without the other - uncreated always existing.

Time though, is an idea and ideas appear to exist.
But time cannot exist without belief in it. Time is an idea. Where do ideas form? - presently always presently.
Time is an idea presence has.

We accept this to be a fact and understand them to be a fact. Yet, why is it hard to accept the concept of of an "Eternal Being" - an uncreated, incorporeal Entity we call God?

Timeless being creates the illusion of time with motion.

edmc^2
Thus "time" is "space and "space" is "time" - one can't exist without the other - uncreated always existing.

We accept this to be a fact and understand them to be a fact. Yet, why is it hard to accept the concept of of an "Eternal Being" - an uncreated, incorporeal Entity we call God?

But how do we know if time and space are uncreated? And if they are, why does that mean that God is uncreated?

Question: If time always existed, how is it possible that you were born? You would be born only after an infinite amount of time.

reply to post by edmc^2


If was able to find a way to transmute elements, become immortal, and do anything else that this God you speak of can do, would that make me God, or a god?

If not, what would? Where is the line?

I agree with most of what you are saying except that last part. To claim God is an absolute and must exist without properly defining what God is prevents this thought exercise from going anywhere.

DC

Interesting. I see not much has changed here since I took my hiatus(the website got blocked at my work). EdMC is still talking that nonsense and defying logic.

edmc^2

To all unbelievers, here's a simple yet profound question that merits an honest answer.

That is:

Should not the existence of "something" uncreated and infinite proves the existence of "someone" uncreated and infinite - God?

For example, we know that spacetime is both uncreated and infinite, that "IT" always existed. Yet why is this NOT proof enough of the existence of an incorporeal uncreated and infinite being - God?

To answer the question, NO. Something infinite and uncreated does not prove it's SOMEONE. That requires a huge leap of logic, assuming of course that statement is even true. But, we do NOT know that spacetime is both uncreated and infinite or that it always existed. Of course it's not proof of god. You are making assumptions about what science does not know. Sounds just like every one of your other threads talking about the same thing.

Subnatural

edmc^2
Thus "time" is "space and "space" is "time" - one can't exist without the other - uncreated always existing.

We accept this to be a fact and understand them to be a fact. Yet, why is it hard to accept the concept of of an "Eternal Being" - an uncreated, incorporeal Entity we call God?

But how do we know if time and space are uncreated? And if they are, why does that mean that God is uncreated?

Question: If time always existed, how is it possible that you were born? You would be born only after an infinite amount of time.

How do we know that time always existed?

Because time "itself" is timeless.

And every time there's space there's time.

And since space is both infinite and eternal thus time us infinite and eternal.

Now if such phenomena exist what's the reason that an uncreated God can't exist?

Simple question.