Why God Exist!!!?

edmc^2
So really, if an Always Existing, uncreated incorporeal "thing" like space-time continuum exist, then why not God?

I'm confused. You keep talking about the big bang, yet now you say that space-time has no beggining.

Space-time did not exist before the big bang. Isn't that the whole point of it?

And because we are located in this space-time continuum it doesn't even make any sense to ask what was before the big bang.

This is asking what was before time. Or what is outside space. It is meaningless and incomprehensible, we must rethink the whole question.

edmc^2

sparky31

edmc^2
reply to post by sparky31

 

sorry i don,t believe in god and i certainly don,t believe in the so called big bang theory so like many millions i,m yet to know anything and never will its human nature they have to have a reason for everything even tho nothings ever been proved,we have to except in our lifetime at least that you pick one and go with it.

If there's no "big-bang" the Singularity, are you saying then that there was no "Beginning"?

If so how could that be since all evidence show that at one point in time there was no Universe then "bang" - there it was.

Heck even Einstein believe it.

so cause Einstein believed in big bang i should?yeah all evidence that human race believes but we,r learning lately that what we believed about other things in universe we may have just got a little bit wrong,take more than Einstein saying he believed for me to believe that everything came from nothing.

i,ll guarantee that Einstein thought the moons round Saturn were dead but guess what we,ve found out that we,r wrong in that.

Umm...yeah because it's been proven time and time again that INDEED - the material universe had a beginning.

It's not just based on thoughts or speculation - it's a fact that: The Universe Did Had a Beginning at one Point in time - called the Singularity.

But the point or the question that needs to be answered is:

If space-time exist and that it had no beginning and end, even uncreated, why not God?

edit on 11-11-2013 by edmc^2 because: ..

its not fact,yeah going on our believes its fact but going on what was fact before we,ve kinda had a kick up the arse to put it the best way,scientists are having to reavaluate things all the time so there is no 100% proof,just cause someones telling me something doesn,t mean i have to take it as fact especially when what was believed is getting proved wrong all the time.

Divine Strake
What in interesting and provocative question: Why God Exist?

Well, I've often wondered this as well. Why does god exist? As well, I wonder why do the "early" gods no longer exist?

Can both of those questions be answered by one word? Yes, I think so, and that word is BELIEF.

I am in no position as to state whether or not god exists, but I do know that god, as perceived by most, is an intriguing and universal security blanket for most of the world.

I know that faith is supposed to be most true when. . .well, it's like this,

Some things are true, whether we believe in them or not. And true faith is belief in something when everything else tells you not to believe. So, does god exist?

Yes, for some. For me personally? I am honestly not sure that my version of god fits the "norm", as it were.

But here's an interesting question.

Did I exist before posting in this thread? Do I require faith of the masses to exist?

Simply put, yes. . .and no.

Why does god exist? To justify the events of many lives that need to believe in something greater than the self.

Separating myth from reality, the reality is - space and time exist as a continuum. Both or I should say spacetime exist as one, neither one can exist without the other. For where there's space there's time and where there's time there's space. We accept this to be facts and govern our lives with it or within it. Yet how can we accept such phenomena and at the same time not able to accept that an uncreated incorporeal Intelligent Entity - not also exist?

Subnatural

edmc^2
So really, if an Always Existing, uncreated incorporeal "thing" like space-time continuum exist, then why not God?

I'm confused. You keep talking about the big bang, yet now you say that space-time has no beggining.

Space-time did not exist before the big bang. Isn't that the whole point of it?

And because we are located in this space-time continuum it doesn't even make any sense to ask what was before the big bang.

This is asking what was before time. Or what is outside space. It is meaningless and incomprehensible, we must rethink the whole question.

To the contrary, Space-time existed way before the big-bang.

Einstein prove it E = mc2 and it does makes sense to ask what's before the "big-bang" because by not asking about it then we're left with no alternative answer but to say "there was absolutely nothing before the big bang".

Yet E = mc2 tells us that the physical universe is the transformation of Energy.

And the fact that space-time existed before we even existed begs the question:

If space-time continuum exist, why not God?

reply to post by edmc^2


What sort of God would exist that laid down a whole load of rules and regulations that he/she insisted we live by over 2000 years ago ......and then never show up again?

If I was a God I'd be showing up every day and smiting and smoting like it was going out of fashion!

edmc^2

Subnatural

edmc^2
So really, if an Always Existing, uncreated incorporeal "thing" like space-time continuum exist, then why not God?

I'm confused. You keep talking about the big bang, yet now you say that space-time has no beggining.

Space-time did not exist before the big bang. Isn't that the whole point of it?

And because we are located in this space-time continuum it doesn't even make any sense to ask what was before the big bang.

This is asking what was before time. Or what is outside space. It is meaningless and incomprehensible, we must rethink the whole question.

To the contrary, Space-time existed way before the big-bang.

Einstein prove it E = mc2 and it does makes sense to ask what's before the "big-bang" because by not asking about it then we're left with no alternative answer but to say "there was absolutely nothing before the big bang".

Yet E = mc2 tells us that the physical universe is the transformation of Energy.

And the fact that space-time existed before we even existed begs the question:

If space-time continuum exist, why not God?




Einstein proved it in his time but we have better technology now that Einstein himself may have changed his mind,Einstein was ahead of his time but would he still believe what he believed back then if he had the tools we have today?that you don,t know.

sparky31

edmc^2

sparky31

edmc^2
reply to post by sparky31

 

sorry i don,t believe in god and i certainly don,t believe in the so called big bang theory so like many millions i,m yet to know anything and never will its human nature they have to have a reason for everything even tho nothings ever been proved,we have to except in our lifetime at least that you pick one and go with it.

If there's no "big-bang" the Singularity, are you saying then that there was no "Beginning"?

If so how could that be since all evidence show that at one point in time there was no Universe then "bang" - there it was.

Heck even Einstein believe it.

so cause Einstein believed in big bang i should?yeah all evidence that human race believes but we,r learning lately that what we believed about other things in universe we may have just got a little bit wrong,take more than Einstein saying he believed for me to believe that everything came from nothing.

i,ll guarantee that Einstein thought the moons round Saturn were dead but guess what we,ve found out that we,r wrong in that.

Umm...yeah because it's been proven time and time again that INDEED - the material universe had a beginning.

It's not just based on thoughts or speculation - it's a fact that: The Universe Did Had a Beginning at one Point in time - called the Singularity.

But the point or the question that needs to be answered is:

If space-time exist and that it had no beginning and end, even uncreated, why not God?

edit on 11-11-2013 by edmc^2 because: ..

its not fact,yeah going on our believes its fact but going on what was fact before we,ve kinda had a kick up the arse to put it the best way,scientists are having to reavaluate things all the time so there is no 100% proof,just cause someones telling me something doesn,t mean i have to take it as fact especially when what was believed is getting proved wrong all the time.

You're missing the point - I'm dealing with facts here.

I don't know bout you but I believe that space-time exist BASED on tangible evidence (mathematical or otherwise).

It's 100% guaranty that "IT" exist. Yet if such phenomena can exist then why not God?

Argyll
reply to post by edmc^2

 

What sort of God would exist that laid down a whole load of rules and regulations that he/she insisted we live by over 2000 years ago ......and then never show up again?

If I was a God I'd be showing up every day and smiting and smoting like it was going out of fashion!

There's an easy answer to your question but you need to prove to yourself first that he exist otherwise the answers won't matter much.

edmc^2

sparky31

edmc^2

sparky31

edmc^2
reply to post by sparky31

 

sorry i don,t believe in god and i certainly don,t believe in the so called big bang theory so like many millions i,m yet to know anything and never will its human nature they have to have a reason for everything even tho nothings ever been proved,we have to except in our lifetime at least that you pick one and go with it.

If there's no "big-bang" the Singularity, are you saying then that there was no "Beginning"?

If so how could that be since all evidence show that at one point in time there was no Universe then "bang" - there it was.

Heck even Einstein believe it.

so cause Einstein believed in big bang i should?yeah all evidence that human race believes but we,r learning lately that what we believed about other things in universe we may have just got a little bit wrong,take more than Einstein saying he believed for me to believe that everything came from nothing.

i,ll guarantee that Einstein thought the moons round Saturn were dead but guess what we,ve found out that we,r wrong in that.

Umm...yeah because it's been proven time and time again that INDEED - the material universe had a beginning.

It's not just based on thoughts or speculation - it's a fact that: The Universe Did Had a Beginning at one Point in time - called the Singularity.

But the point or the question that needs to be answered is:

If space-time exist and that it had no beginning and end, even uncreated, why not God?

edit on 11-11-2013 by edmc^2 because: ..

its not fact,yeah going on our believes its fact but going on what was fact before we,ve kinda had a kick up the arse to put it the best way,scientists are having to reavaluate things all the time so there is no 100% proof,just cause someones telling me something doesn,t mean i have to take it as fact especially when what was believed is getting proved wrong all the time.

You're missing the point - I'm dealing with facts here.

I don't know bout you but I believe that space-time exist BASED on tangible evidence (mathematical or otherwise).

It's 100% guaranty that "IT" exist. Yet if such phenomena can exist then why not God?

i was dealing with facts 10 years ago that moons orbiting saturn were dead,no chance of them having anything interesting going on,now whats happened since?

one of them moons is very much alive and may ,just may have an ocean underneath it full of life,scientists got it wrong but wait according to you thats not possible.

reply to post by edmc^2


How can you say that time existed before something? Was there a point in time when you could say "time does not exist yet, but hang on, in a couple of minutes it should start existing"? Does time exist inside itself?

It might exist inside some kind of meta-time. A space-time that contains our space-time, in a bubble if you will. Why not, that could be. But this would make the big bag irrelevant to our discussion. Unless God is only the God of our space-time and he too wonders what created him?

I'm not saying there was nothing before the big bang. But "before" is the wrong word. We could ask what caused the big bang (assuming cause and effect existed before the big bang), or what else exists than the space-time continuum?

The English language is a poor tool for asking questions like these.

reply to post by edmc^2


Well, I guess I am not saying that God doesn't exist. I mean, I have to accept just how perfect this little planet has been for many millions of years for the life that exists here.

What does it take to make a God exist? I stated that some things are true whether we believe them or not, so I am leaving room for the possibility that God, as people perceive him/her, might exist.

My conflict is simply that I don't think the aspects of God, as accepted by humans, exists.

How can people be offered a belief system that promotes free will, yet punishes them for their choices?

Why did Jesus mention being forsaken while on the cross?

Does God exist? If even ONE person believes in God, then yes, God exists.

reply to post by edmc^2

There's an easy answer to your question but you need to prove to yourself first that he exist otherwise the answers won't matter much.

Humour me.....what's the easy answer ?

Subnatural
reply to post by edmc^2

 

How can you say that time existed before something? Was there a point in time when you could say "time does not exist yet, but hang on, in a couple of minutes it should start existing"? Does time exist inside itself?

It might exist inside some kind of meta-time. A space-time that contains our space-time, in a bubble if you will. Why not, that could be. But this would make the big bag irrelevant to our discussion. Unless God is only the God of our space-time and he too wonders what created him?

I'm not saying there was nothing before the big bang. But "before" is the wrong word. We could ask what caused the big bang (assuming cause and effect existed before the big bang), or what else exists than the space-time continuum?

The English language is a poor tool for asking questions like these.

Agree - I wish there's another way of asking the question but I think you approximated it by asking "what caused the big bang".

And as stated by Newton, "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." Without the cause there's no effect.

And I might add for every purposeful effect there's a purposeful cause.

Thus we're left with no alternative but to accept that a "FIRST CAUSE" must have existed for the effect to occur.

A "FIRST CAUSE" - like space-time continuum - that has either an end or a beginning, uncreated ALWAYS Existing. An uncreated First Cause.

reply to post by Divine Strake

My conflict is simply that I don't think the aspects of God, as accepted by humans, exists.

Agree, our feeble minds can only approximate God because we exist in a different plateau. It's like explaining the color blue to someone who was born blind.

It's like what Dr. Sagan asked: "how do you explain three dimension to a two dimensional entity?"

I mean really, how can we fully grasp a four or multidimensional being to a three dimensional being like us?

We can only do so in human terms.

A collective entity needing more. Genasis

reply to post by edmc^2



For people to admit God exists requires a response to him. Man does not want to do that so it's easier to say God not exist but space time and aliens do.

It's also easier to believe in evolution even though that requires more faith than believing in a being outside our understood time and space where all our existence is as if a split second.

But ignorance does not prove the inexistance of something. Microbes do not believe humans exist because they are outside their understanding and their time and space relating to their form of existence.

edmc^2

What Is Your Conclusion?

What say you?

No, it means no such thing, this just seems like a slightly different take on the more usual "god of ignorance/the gaps". Not sure why you would be claiming the facts you do?

Why is god always so comfortably hidden away in areas of scientific ignorance, only to (historically) be conspicuous by his absence when such ignorance is replaced with understanding? It seems an unavoidable yet unfortunate fact (for some) that god is always most definitely in absentia (in any tangible way), amid such attempts to prove that he really is there. Like continually being offered " free beer tomorrow" (yesterday too, in this instance).........

Perhaps, if our universe has some underlying fundamental principle or force it might be possible in some way to have a personal relationship with it. The more honest believers seem to realize this requires personal faith (at this stage) rather than pseudo science.....

reply to post by edmc^2

Should not the existence of "something" uncreated and infinite proves the existence of "someone" uncreated and infinite - God?

How do we get from "something" uncreated to "someone" uncreated? If we have someone uncreated, why can't we have an infinite amount of uncreated someones?

Well,

I can tell you that its is true, but that you should be more careful about such subject since there are too many that are afraid to dare thinking about this subject (many because it would affect a lot their way of living, thinking and understanding). So here is something that should understand before trying to explain it to others and open your mind.

God exists and it is undeniable.

The problem comes from the fact that the word "God" has been misunderstood and ridiculed with extremely ignorant facts/comparisons/etc. God is not a guy looking at us from above, he is not an overpowered being throwing lighting around, he is not a cruel creator liking to make us harm, etc. God is the source of all (matter/energy/laws/cosmic constants), he is Consciousness.

Now those starting to ask explanations and to criticize this understanding, they should keep in mind that to really understand this, people meditate/study for tens of years to have an better understanding of this concept (that only few in the entire history of humanity fully reached). So how dare you to ask simplified explanations and understand it right now?

It is like a 6 year-old primary school kid wanting to understand all about quantum physics in one day. Even if an expert that knows everything about told the kid, this one wont understand a damn thing and, as closed-minded people, would say it is crazy and a complete lie.

Moreover, don't mix God and Religion. It is not the same at all. Maybe it began with true faith and good purpose but ,as all things controlled by humans, it became corrupted.

Have a nice day.

TheOpenMind

Sure it's possible that there is some immensely powerful being that lives outside our universe and created it. However, I think it is highly unlikely that this immensely powerful being cares about one blue speck in a backwaters part of some insignificant galaxy. Not to say that this being doesn't love life, but that this being would have much better things to worry about then wasting its time micromanaging this one measly planet with a bunch of arrogant, self-centered apes living on it.

Of course, it is also just as possible that no supreme being that created the universe exists either. Considering the giant hands off approach of this supposed being, it is easy to come to that conclusion as well. Therefore given these two presuppositions, you cannot say one way or the other that a God does or doesn't exist.