It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

"Not my will but Thy Will be done" - Freewill and The Will of God

page: 1
1
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 03:54 PM
link   
Romans 11:32 says that God put us all in disobedience so that he can extend his Mercy to us all...


What if Satan was destined to exist by God? Even though he is considered evil God still talks to him in heaven and tells him to tempt people to do evil (Read Job in The Bible for more info).


How can a human or Satan go against God's will? How can an almighty God lose in a battle of Will? This seems to make sense that Job and this verse in Romans is true if God is The Almighty One.



Since God put all in disobedience because he wanted to extend Mercy, then could it be that the sin of pride means believing that Satan has the power to overcome or even challenge God's will? Remember, God is not a human who you can fight against, you can't even "lose" because there can never be a challenge against an All Powerful Will.

Maybe this is why it is said that you aren't saved by works but through grace, and having God's Grace makes you Born Again (Aware, living in Truth).
Can evil be that humans believe they somehow attacked or sinned (overcoming with victory of their own will) against God?


In Portuguese there is a saying:

"When God commands, even The Devil obeys"

And it makes sense because believing anything else means our Will is stronger Than God's.


Maybe this is Why Lucifer/Satan believers say "do what thy wilt" to spread illusion this is even possible, becoming your own God trying to control your own life when God Rules All.




posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 04:12 PM
link   
reply to post by arpgme
 





Romans 11:32 says that God put us all in disobedience so that he can extend his Mercy to us all...

What if Satan was destined to exist by God? Even though he is considered evil God still talks to him in heaven and tells him to tempt people to do evil


See I have never understood this. First we are screwed over from the beginning in hope that some will be saved (and screw the others.) Second we're told that god and satan chat about this in heaven even while the same bible says evil cannot be in the presence of god.

Does that mean satan is not evil and if god is omniscient then he knew many (most) people would fall short and be fried anyway?



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 04:19 PM
link   
reply to post by Bassago
 


I think it all means that God likes nothing more than a pleasant surprise and wishes to laugh with us at our own prior ignorance and absurdity and folly where if the last laugh is at the devil's expense then so be it.



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 04:32 PM
link   
reply to post by Bassago
 


Reincarnation was seen as true, that's why Jesus' s Deciples asked him if a man was BORN blind because of his sin.

Yahushua (Jesus) means "Salvation of Yahweh", the salvation is Mercy. Mery triumphs over judgment ( Book of James in The Bible).

If you do not accept The Salvation of Yahweh (Mercy / Forgivenness), then you will always hold guilt (sin). Admitting you mistakes in life and understanding you aren't perfect, but it is a learning process is Truth that will set you free.

Then past is DONE. You are here NOW (freedom - God's Grace).
edit on 11-11-2013 by arpgme because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 04:32 PM
link   
I just sort of look at it like a sort of "tough love." We didn't listen to God to start out with, so now we have to learn the hard way and we either choose Him or we don't, but He generally doesn't much put His hands on us either way.



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 04:37 PM
link   
reply to post by ketsuko
 


This is believing you have power over God, that it is YOUR authority to accept or reject.

You are saved by Grace, either God - The Truth reveals himself to you by HIS will or not.

Until then you will be in hell ( a feeling of loss and separation from God), but that is ok because one day The Presence will be revealed for all to see.


edit on 11-11-2013 by arpgme because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 05:00 PM
link   
reply to post by arpgme
 


All of our experience in reality must abide by the laws set into quantum mechanics. This is true because of the strong nuclear force heeling the weak force. To heel means to change authority. If you examine any system of charged particles, the charges and types of particles exert a type of control over each other. In this case, we have a process of adhesion, cohesion, repulsion and attraction. This matters when you begin to connect the word of the Bible and their meanings to the overall concepts we already know in physics.

For instance, Father is Aleph (strong) Bet (house). Easily, we connect this to two concepts that must be present in any micro or macro system. Look anywhere you wish above and below and you see the same thing. Walls containing stuff. Looking down at the most basic level, you get the Proton (+) and the Electron (-), which are in balance together in Hydrogen, the first element. Moving on, we always have a Neutron added to each of these balanced states of energy. In this case, now the Proton (+) and Neutron (Center balance point) are engaged in the primary law of physics (invariant symmetry). This law is what the proton and neutron abide within to stay in a yin / yang style balance. You can see this in the fact that a Proton has two up quarks and one down. The Neutron has two down and one up. This is called Chirality. Each are separate by function, yet mirrored by property.

In the Bible, this is two are better than one from Ecclesiastes. We then have the perfect union of the threefold cord. A Cor is a volume, which is where we get our word heart, which is the thing that is filled. At the Core (heart) of any system we have things that fill that system. What is the thing that fills the walls in segments? WORD! It's information in segmented form and function. Units of information then combine by the four properties mentioned above, but are governed by the platonic forms that we see in crystals. DNA is what we see, just as geometry is what we observe from the macro level. DNA is the WORD in segments of letters.

Father, as I mentioned, is Aleph Bet (Alphabet). Son is Bet (house) Nun (Seed). Together, they are the Strong house of the Strong Nuclear force. The weak force is the Negative, or electron by comparison. It does not abide by invariant symmetry. We currently have a two fold cord.



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 05:10 PM
link   
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


Aleph - old testament, rule by Strength
Bet - New Testament rule by acceptance.



Show them the power of the will (Aleph) of God; allow them to enter heaven the house (Bet) of God.
edit on 11-11-2013 by arpgme because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 05:38 PM
link   

arpgme
How can an almighty God lose in a battle of Will?


Supposedly, according to Revelation, God loses in the end. Revelation claims God wins, but if you look at the numbers, then God doesn't. The bible clearly says that more people end up in Hell then Heaven. So it looks like Satan scores higher. He (IT) wins.



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 05:47 PM
link   
reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Satan - Red Dragon was created by God - knowing fully the future effects and mind of Satan. Nothing was unknown or unavoidable. All of it was God's Will.



By the way, there I'd no "end" of time.


Aeon = age


The end of the age is the beginning of the next.





edit on 11-11-2013 by arpgme because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 05:50 PM
link   
reply to post by arpgme
 


Is that exactly what you thought I said?

I refuse to believe that God pulls our strings and makes all our deepest decisions for us at every turn. To believe that is to believe that vast majority of people on this planet and throughout its history have been born damned because they have never and will never choose Salvation or belief.

No, what I said is that God understands that humanity is like the child with a hot pot. He can tell us all he wants that the pot is hot and will burn but most of us will have to touch it and be burned before we will willingly believe Him and accept that He is telling us the truth.

Similarly, He can tell us all throughout our lives the we can only ever be complete if we accept Him and take Salvation, but most people will do everything but and try to fill that emptiness in their lives with everything else before they will turn to Him. He never gives up on us and keeps whispering, but He won't force our choices otherwise we would be no different than the angels who were made as so many willing slaves from the beginning.

No, he gives us enough latitude to make the choice to accept Salvation and to willingly surrender to Him and His will for you.

I suppose it all comes down to how much autonomy you think God is willing to let humanity have.



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 05:58 PM
link   
reply to post by ketsuko
 


Ok, you can keep refusing/rebelling until you know longer do.

Do you have free-will to believe or not? Nope. It either sounds believable to you or it doesn't.


I can't believe that tomorrow the sun will rise and it'll be blue, but if it is God's Will God can cause something to happen to make it so.



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 06:27 PM
link   

arpgme
reply to post by ketsuko
 


Ok, you can keep refusing/rebelling until you know longer do.

Do you have free-will to believe or not? Nope. It either sounds believable to you or it doesn't.


You have that choice. You can believe or not, have faith or not.


I can't believe that tomorrow the sun will rise and it'll be blue, but if it is God's Will God can cause something to happen to make it so.


Yes, you can believe that sun will rise in the West, set in the East and be blue. You haven't seen some of the predictions made on some of the internet sites floating around the net.


God can also cause the Sun to rise in the West, set in the East and be blue if he chooses. This is one of the differences between Islam and Christianity. Muslims have a different view of science then we tend to because they take the idea of Allah and his will to extremes. They have a hard time believing in scientific theory and law because they believe that at any moment Allah can and will alter reality to suit himself and to let yourself believe in any principle of science can be an attempt impose your will and rule on Allah which sounds very much like what you're saying here in terms of belief, choice and faith.

I go the other way. To me God is a more benevolent God although on who requires accountability. He most certainly could alter reality on a whim to suit whatever impulse crossed His mind. He is also a loving God who understands like any good parent that his children need structure and stability. He wrote the laws of this universe just as he ultimately made us and He allows things to be as they are for our good and because He decreed it would be so. He could require our belief and our worship, but He already has angels who are made to serve Him. He wants these things of us because we freely offer them, not because He compels them.

In the end, most will not find Him or turn their backs on Him.



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 06:34 PM
link   
reply to post by ketsuko
 


No one can find God. God chooses to reveal himself to them or not. That is what Grace is.


And there is no need for faith when you know everything is controlled by God.


Truth sets you free, but living in darkness makes you think you are free but also lost.

With Light God is revealed, and you know all is well.

You were never lost God controls you even when you think you are rebellious, that's why God still gives order to Satan to tempt, which he happily does.



EDIT*******************


Oh, and yes! Even though God controls all we ARE accountable for out actions.

When a ball is dropped in a puddle, it splashes. The ball caused the effect of water splashing.


If you are hateful to others, people will respond back to you in such a way.



edit on 11-11-2013 by arpgme because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 06:41 PM
link   
reply to post by arpgme
 


Now, you confuse me. God controls us, but we take the blame is His control leads us to bad actions?



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 08:07 PM
link   
reply to post by ketsuko
 



If a ball falls into the pound, it doesn't matter that it wasn't in control, it will still be wet and water will splash



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 08:39 PM
link   
Found this on my usual site and I thought this is relevant to this discussion.


Full Question

In his book God's Debris, Scott Adams says that if God knows the future, then we don't have free will because our free choices would change how the future unfolds. If we do really have free will, then God cannot know the future. How does Church teaching reconcile this?

Answer

There is nothing to reconcile. Because you know that the sun will be in the sky tomorrow doesn’t mean that you will have caused it to be there! Even though God already knows what our free choices will be in the future, our choices are still ours and are still free. If our free choices change how the future will be, God already knows that and has known it for all eternity.


Source



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 08:55 PM
link   

arpgme
reply to post by Bassago
 


Reincarnation was seen as true, that's why Jesus' s Deciples asked him if a man was BORN blind because of his sin.

Yahushua (Jesus) means "Salvation of Yahweh", the salvation is Mercy. Mery triumphs over judgment ( Book of James in The Bible).

If you do not accept The Salvation of Yahweh (Mercy / Forgivenness), then you will always hold guilt (sin). Admitting you mistakes in life and understanding you aren't perfect, but it is a learning process is Truth that will set you free.

Then past is DONE. You are here NOW (freedom - God's Grace).
edit on 11-11-2013 by arpgme because: (no reason given)


You say reincarnation was seen as true. Do you mean to say that's what the Bible teaches? Or just reincarnation was an acceptable belief in those days?



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 09:14 PM
link   
reply to post by arpgme
 


I truly am a sucker for free-will debates and this is how I see it (though I do not consider myself a Christian, I can speak the "dialect"
)

God is supposed to be Omni-present, all-knowing, all-powerful, yes?

essentially we are not talking about "God" with an upper-case 'G' unless the subject of speculation is synonymous with these qualities and all other qualities given to God with have to have the prefix "all-" to keep this speculation consistent..

If God were said to have a Will of "his" own, then that Will would have to be undefinable and all-unpredictable, or phrased in a positive way, all-capable..

who else do we know who seems to be capable of just-near everything imaginable..?

US!

"Do what thou wilt is the whole of the law" comes from Aleister Crowley who, despite the fact that he proclaimed himself 666: The Beast and "Wickedest Man Alive", he really did not write about "Satanism" nor did he really seem to be any more wicked than characters such as Marilyn Manson..

"Do what thou wilt" is actually just a more modern way of saying a very old idea: All is permissible.

Just as "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", I say that Evil is where it is felt and hence must be understood before it can be resolved. Instead of trying to "solve" the problem of "Evil" with a capital 'E', see it for what it is, take the reigns of your own Will and unpredictable nature and re-DEFINE what constitutes as a "problem" and suddenly.. there's no more evil to be seen..

just two sides of the same spectrum which all beings are free to navigate, destroy, or collaborate.

the choice is ours..

..or as captain planet says "THE POWER IS YOURS!"



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 09:21 PM
link   
reply to post by IsidoreOfSeville
 


Based on that conversation, his deciples believed so and they knew the teaching of Jesus Christ.



new topics

top topics



 
1
<<   2 >>

log in

join