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Why I will never support the Libertarians.

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posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 09:27 AM
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reply to post by Battery
 


I lament the 'death by a thousand cuts' you guys are experiencing. If you get a opportunity, it's a big world out there... And contrary to your thoughts, most people love Americans. They just hate the government. PEACE.




posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 09:32 AM
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This is my view on the issue.

For most of my beliefs on things, I am a more or less socially conservative person. I make no apologies for that.

When it comes to making new laws, I am more or less libertarian.

My test is whether or not the law is basically to protect a person from him or herself or to protect the rights of others from that person. That will not, however, stop me from arguing the socially conservative position in a debate whether I think an actual law should be made or not.

I do think we need a society that is has some level of basic morality or standard of decency, at least in its public life, in order for us to essentially live in the sort of free Republic that the Founders envisioned. This is because we have to be able to trust one another above all else. If we do not have laws and police and government enforcers compelling correct or acceptable behavior in those around us, then we have to be able to trust those around enough to believe that they are going to comport themselves in ways we can live with, tolerable ways. Without that element of trust, people start calling for laws, on both sides let's get real.

I don't care what you do in the privacy of your own homes, but I don't want my public streets to be one never-ending parade of drunken debauchery. I don't care if you allow prostitution, but I also don't think it should be out for public consumption, either. I understand that quite a few libertarians believe that all that should be there. Fine, but if you are going to be a fair-minded libertarian who expects to have his or her views respected, then you should also be fair minded enough to accommodate and respect those who also don't think they should have to be exposed to all those things.

And, of course, you should also be responsible for your vices and take on the full impact. I don't want to subsidize the consequences of your vices.

So decide if your simply a libertine, a liberaltarian or a true libertarian. I can often go a ways with the last, but the other two need not apply.

Also, we need to understand that so long as conservatives and libertarians remain divided because we are not perfect ideological matches, the progressives will continue to will and we both will lose and lose it all. Working together, we can defeat them and both of us get close to our goals. Once we've done that, then shouldn't we start fighting each other?



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 09:43 AM
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reply to post by nwtrucker
 


Dude.. it sounds to me like you have it ALL wrong. I am libertarian. Live and let live for people.

I am anti war, anti war on drugs, smaller govt, pro equality, pro choice, support backed currency (anti fiat anti fed), pro 2nd amendment, anti tax, anti interventionalist, pro privacy, support freedom of speech and press.

I am voting libertarian from now on. Anything less is a shame.

I'm doing it for you and me.



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 09:52 AM
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reply to post by ketsuko
 


Well written, and you make some good points. I also am Libertarian leaning, but do not necessarily hold all their beliefs as Gospel. There will never be a perfect society. The system will always require 'tweeking'. But, a good place to start is removing the Federal gov't, bribery, corporate fascism, the FED, police force, military complex etc. (You guys are #ed) Try allowing communities to determine their own destiny locally. I find local gov't in Australia very effective. Things can actually be accomplished. Go back to your fore-fathers.



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 09:54 AM
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nwtrucker


I'm just saying that we didn't stomp the evil when we should have largely to being "nice", being kind...being indifferent.




So.....Who or what in your opinion is "the evil"? Homosexuals, Jews, Blacks, Unions, artists, feminist, people that wear glasses, Mexicans, Hollywood, poor people, people that play tennis, etc.

or just those who have a different ideology than you? I can understand why you don't want a "live and let live" society. You seem very angry! Don't listen to Rush so much!

I'm voting Libertarian, even though I'm not naive enough to think it will really change anything. The Corporate Oligarchy is so firmly entrenched; there really is no choice anymore, just the illusion of choice.
edit on 11-11-2013 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 10:05 AM
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reply to post by nwtrucker
 


I have no idea what you are talking about with your OP. I don't feel you adequately explained your reasonings for not wanting to vote Libertarian. That may be due to you not fully understanding our platform, which is fine, most don't understand it.

You talk about wanting to go back to the principles and morals that we were founded on, but you fail to realize that that is one of the primary points of Libertarianism. We WANT to go back to smaller government that doesn't have a say in every little thing you do. Just like the 1800's.

I don't know what you are going on about with that whole morals argument, like America EVER had decent morals to begin with. We are talking about a country that literally legislated and conquered its way west across the continent based off of some stupid principle that it is our God given destiny to take the west. We continued to enslave a whole other race of people long after the slave trade dried up. We let businessmen install a sort of neo-feudalism back in the 1900's with company towns and up until anti-trust legislation was written, the government sided with the Union busters (big money). Even the founding fathers weren't entirely full of morals since the Constitution was written for rich, land owning, Protestant, British descent, and white men. Might as well throw that corruption isn't even a new phenomenon in there, here read up on the corruption of President Ulysses S. Grant's administration.
edit on 11-11-2013 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 10:09 AM
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reply to post by olaru12
 


Without getting into a full-on debate about what you wrote: "So....."Who or what in your opinion is the evil? Homosexuals, Jews, Blacks, Unions, artists, etc." Cannot you see that people outside America 'roll their eyes'.
While the rest of the World more-or-less has these issues sorted, you play right into the left-right paradigm. Think about it...



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 10:20 AM
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ozwest
reply to post by olaru12
 


Without getting into a full-on debate about what you wrote: "So....."Who or what in your opinion is the evil? Homosexuals, Jews, Blacks, Unions, artists, etc." Cannot you see that people outside America 'roll their eyes'.
While the rest of the World more-or-less has these issues sorted, you play right into the left-right paradigm. Think about it...


Think about this....it was a question. And roll your eyes all you want we "mericans" don't need your input into our society, culture, politics, etc. Pump out your own ceptic tank before you criticize ours. There is plenty of left-right paradigm to go around; not just in America.

Another thing to think about....you took my post completely out of context!


edit on 11-11-2013 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 10:25 AM
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I'm not a registered Libertarian but have found myself voting that way for at least a decade now. I can't picture myself ever voting for a (D) or an (R) ever again. I'll take a Libertarian over any of them .. republican, democrat, green party, communist party, tea party, .... etc etc



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 10:29 AM
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reply to post by olaru12
 
Mmmm... "we "mericans"

Didn't realize 'Americans' had exclusive rights to this site. Guess it must be your 'exceptional'. I think everything is in 'context'.



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 10:34 AM
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reply to post by olaru12
 


The "evil" is when you feel that laws should be written elevating a group at the expense of others. None of those groups are evil, but all of them have been used to chip away at our freedoms in the form of laws that get ever more restrictive for everyone.



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 10:36 AM
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nwtrucker
helped put America on the top in virtually every category one could think of.


Erm like what Exactly?

Healthcare: Nope hong Kong takes number 1 slot with USA at erm 46. Source

Education: Nope canada takes top spot Source

Rich/poor divide: Nope. Sweden takes that spot. USA not even in the top 30 source

Standard of living: Switzerland takes that spot source Norway is also given the top sport depending on were you look source

Corruption: Nope thats New Zealand with the USA at a dissmal 19th Source

Lowest Unemployment: Nope that Qatar at 0.5% Source

But surely the USA leads in freedom right? It the land of the free so it has to be number one!

Nope thats New Zealand source


So what does the USA lead in?

Well......
Its militray that does not even need a source as we all know that.

But also

Crime: USA has the higest overall crime rate source

Prison population: Yep you win that one too. source

Debt: Yep you win that one too. source



I guess when your country eventually goes broke you can bomb those at the top out of jelousy for there freedoms and wealth
Thats if your not all in jail.

edit on 11-11-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-11-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-11-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-11-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 10:36 AM
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ozwest
reply to post by olaru12
 
Mmmm... "we "mericans"

Didn't realize 'Americans' had exclusive rights to this site. Guess it must be your 'exceptional'. I think everything is in 'context'.



We are "exceptional" enough to know the difference between....your and you're



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 10:40 AM
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reply to post by olaru12
 


Sprechen sie deutsch? lol



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 10:43 AM
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Em2013

> Socialism is poor for morale and incapable of self-sustaining itself


Someone needs to tell Norway and Denmark that.



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 10:44 AM
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olaru12

ozwest
reply to post by olaru12
 
Mmmm... "we "mericans"

Didn't realize 'Americans' had exclusive rights to this site. Guess it must be your 'exceptional'. I think everything is in 'context'.



We are "exceptional" enough to know the difference between....your and you're


The sign of a lossing argument is when you have to resort to picking on grammer rather than the content itself.



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 10:57 AM
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crazyewok

olaru12

ozwest
reply to post by olaru12
 
Mmmm... "we "mericans"

Didn't realize 'Americans' had exclusive rights to this site. Guess it must be your 'exceptional'. I think everything is in 'context'.



We are "exceptional" enough to know the difference between....your and you're


The sign of a lossing argument is when you have to resort to picking on grammer rather than the content itself.


So what.........it was worth it!!
It's not like it's the olympics with first class competition.

edit on 11-11-2013 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 11:00 AM
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reply to post by boymonkey74
 


So what you say the humanist has a moral code. the only one I've seen is perfectly detailed in your post. Hating any and all religions and their moral codes.

What, other than your vent, has added to human morals that hasn't been covered by the Judeo-Christian morals?

I'm all ears.....



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 11:05 AM
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olaru12

ozwest
reply to post by olaru12
 
Mmmm... "we "mericans"

Didn't realize 'Americans' had exclusive rights to this site. Guess it must be your 'exceptional'. I think everything is in 'context'.



We are "exceptional" enough to know the difference between....your and you're


Ummm, actually ... most Americans aren't even exceptional enough to recognize that anymore.



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 11:09 AM
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reply to post by ketsuko
 


Thank you for your post. You've articulated it far better than I.

There is an overlap, certainly. The progressives do require countering.

The moral code aspect seems a major difference between the two.

Again, well said.



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