Question: Mixing Hollow Points with Full Metal Jackets?

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posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 07:58 AM
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tjack
Pick a known good defense round for carrying, and buy the cheap stuff for the range.


Very good advice, I would strongly suggest that you at-least fire off a box or two of your 'self defence' round if you don't normally fire that specific ammunition to ensure it is fully reliable with your firearm. It wouldn't be the first time where someone has loaded up new brand of ammunition only to find their firearm jam on them when they most need it, or found the bullet didn't handle as expected.

In response to bobs_uruncle, know your laws about firing warning shots and the consequences that others have experienced using them. If you shoot a bullet at someone, you should be prepared to kill them in my opinion.

I would focus your energy on the security of your home, for example
-Ensure you have a strong robust door and frame, as-well as a sturdy lock.
-Consider putting an anti-smash film over your windows to increase the time it takes to break a _
-Have your firearm in an accessible but also secure place (important if you have children) when you go to bed.
-Plan with your family measures to take if your house is broken into, for example all meet in one place, hide under the bed etc. The last thing you want is an un-organised panic in an emergency.

At the end of the day your intruder isn't going to be hanging around or inspecting the bullet casings if you are shooting him, regardless if he has body armour on.




posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 08:28 AM
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reply to post by phantom150
 



Yup, that's what I meant by "known good ".

Good advice!




posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 08:33 AM
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I'm glad there was finally a few people to pull this back to sanity here at the end. I mean damn mixed mags and warning shot's. Employ those tactics if you want to but when you have your day in court and you don't get to go home...remember the folks here telling you it would happen. Better than me telling you or anyone else you should do yourself a favor and take a class or buy a book. There are quite a few books detailing laws and current precedents in court for the benefit of gun owners so they aren't confused or believing jackasses off the net when they have a question. This isn't a 5$ bet with your buddy to lose. MAKE SURE YOU KNOW WHATS WITHIN THE LAW AND SAFE OR JUST DON'T OWN A GUN!

ETA: I can guarantee you if you shoot someone through any barrier that you couldn't see them through it will bite you in the ass in court. Just carry the FMJs until it's truly apocalypse time when shooting into cars and through cover may actually be necessary.
edit on 11-11-2013 by RickyD because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 09:22 AM
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The more rounds you have the more you tend to think in terms of unloading (watch videos of police firing on suspects). I'm talking about "mad moments" here. The tendency is to pull the trigger without actually aiming.

The man that can stand there with bullets whizzing by his ear and carefully aim is going to likely be the winner in a shootout.

17 bullets should be enough to kill anything no matter what type they are.

On mixing rounds…

Different manufacturers use different powder charges and weight of projectile. Recoil and accuracy at different ranges will vary, giving the shooter less confidence in that darkened room where your bullets will land. Practice with the same ammo at the range as you intend to use for defense.

Don't mix drinks, women or rounds and you'll live longer.



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 10:01 AM
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you can argue over whats the best for self defense in a home invasion all you want.
and i understand some like their pistola, but me and my mossberg will most definitely drop anyone who unwelcomely ventures in my home.

most experts agree that a shotgun is best, but just like any other you have to practice with it.
and if you don't like the recoil of a 12ga., go with a 20ga.

12ga.00 buck has 9 pellts that are almost the same size as a 9mm. so that is equal to shooting someone 9 times with your pistol with one shot. 20ga. #3 has 20 pellets that are the same as a .25 cal, and is just as effective in a close up environment as a 12.ga, with less recoil. also there as manufactures that make shells that reduce recoil with out loss of power. you can also use a semiauto instead of a pump, the action uses some of the gas, and reduces the recoil. another choice you have is different stocks designed to reduce the recoil.

but then you have those that say that a shotgun does to much damage to the home if you miss. excuse me are you worried about your home or your family and your life. you can always buy joint compound and sheet rock to fix the holes. fixing you family or yourself is not that easy. if at all possible.


give me a shotgun for home defense any day.



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 10:17 AM
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Just make sure to test them on the range for functioning. You don't want any malfunctions if you need to use it to save you. Id stick with jhp's for the most part unless you plan on shooting through car doors at a badguy or something.
Firepiston



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 10:45 AM
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reply to post by JohnnySasaki
 


I was in South Africa working for the military/CI, I was told to always fire a warning shot if possible and as long as you couldn't see a weapon, meaning a threatening approach without a weapon. Obviously in close quarters 25 feet or less that's not possible, but at 75 feet I always did, except when I was in hot zones/borders/Angola or came into a situation under fire. I thought it was a good policy and anyway, I didn't want to waste my mercury, hydrogen cyanide or semtex filled FHP rounds on the ground. They were after all hand made with love and care in my lab ;-)

Cheers - Dave



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 10:57 AM
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mysterioustranger
Im keeping hollow points in my 9mm-17 rounds. But, Ive been hearing some folks mix them up. As in 3 HPS, then 3 FMJ's, then one then the other.

I understand the reasoning to do so both ways. For me, I think just hollow points in my 17 round mags.

But, I wonder if anyone has any good arguments going either way.

Thanks for any input
edit on 09-22-2013 by mysterioustranger because: (no reason given)


There is no reasoning for loading both the only reason should be where your using the gun. In an outdoor situation a full metal jacket would be preferable allowing you to shoot through brush for example. And for home protection you want hollow points so that way if your shooting at a burgler you wont kill your neighbors by having bullets fly through there house. Mixing the two is just stupid because if you hit a person the impact will be the same in fact could argue a full metal jacket is more lethal because of higher penetration and allowing the bullet to tumble.



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 11:12 AM
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bobs_uruncle
reply to post by JohnnySasaki
 


I was in South Africa working for the military/CI, I was told to always fire a warning shot if possible
Cheers - Dave


Firing warning shots in the military, especially when you're cleared to do so, is a totally different story.



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 11:23 AM
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bobs_uruncle
reply to post by JohnnySasaki
 


I was in South Africa working for the military/CI, I was told to always fire a warning shot if possible and as long as you couldn't see a weapon, meaning a threatening approach without a weapon. Obviously in close quarters 25 feet or less that's not possible, but at 75 feet I always did, except when I was in hot zones/borders/Angola or came into a situation under fire. I thought it was a good policy and anyway, I didn't want to waste my mercury, hydrogen cyanide or semtex filled FHP rounds on the ground. They were after all hand made with love and care in my lab ;-)

Cheers - Dave


Really watch to many James Bond movies have we? Cyanide or mercury poisoning is stupid if you didnt kill them by shooting at them waiting for them to die from poison is stupid. And well you dont think semtex goes off just because it hits something do you? You can throw it into a wall run it over shoot it from a gun and guess what no explosion. In fact it would more likely explode from static discharge in your gun. If it was a side arm i could see you not having legs. So this means you either arent who you say you are or you were incredibly stupid pick one.

Decided to add this as well if your firing warning shots you shouldnt have fired at all you never fire a weapon without identifying the target and threat they propose. People like you get Innocent people killed.
edit on 11/11/13 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 11:33 AM
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reply to post by mysterioustranger
 


There was a study done some years back that found during the winter months hollow points can get "Plugged up" after being shoot threw winter clothing... you know heavy jackets, thermals, etc... thus plugged up they didn't expand they way their supposed too, acting just like a ball round...

the recommendations of that report led to a lot of officers go to the cheaper ball ammo ....during the winter
However since shooting different types of ammo often changes point of impact and weapons handling I suggest you either stick to the ammo your used to shooting with and maybe carry a spare mag loaded with ball as a just in case...

by no means should you mix and match ammo... if you do that on a range you'll see two different sets of groups in your target... up close that inch or two diff might not mean much but once distance opens up it could mean the diff between a hit and miss... But don't take my word for it, go try it yourself... that's how we learn, by trial
edit on 11-11-2013 by HardCorps because: Fixed my crappy spelling



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 01:21 PM
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dragonridr

bobs_uruncle
reply to post by JohnnySasaki
 


I was in South Africa working for the military/CI, I was told to always fire a warning shot if possible and as long as you couldn't see a weapon, meaning a threatening approach without a weapon. Obviously in close quarters 25 feet or less that's not possible, but at 75 feet I always did, except when I was in hot zones/borders/Angola or came into a situation under fire. I thought it was a good policy and anyway, I didn't want to waste my mercury, hydrogen cyanide or semtex filled FHP rounds on the ground. They were after all hand made with love and care in my lab ;-)

Cheers - Dave


Really watch to many James Bond movies have we? Cyanide or mercury poisoning is stupid if you didnt kill them by shooting at them waiting for them to die from poison is stupid. And well you dont think semtex goes off just because it hits something do you? You can throw it into a wall run it over shoot it from a gun and guess what no explosion. In fact it would more likely explode from static discharge in your gun. If it was a side arm i could see you not having legs. So this means you either arent who you say you are or you were incredibly stupid pick one.

Decided to add this as well if your firing warning shots you shouldnt have fired at all you never fire a weapon without identifying the target and threat they propose. People like you get Innocent people killed.
edit on 11/11/13 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)


You play with your toys the way you do, I'll play with mine my way. I'm technological animal and I prefer to try different things that I can do myself because you never know when you'll need those skills in the future. At the time I had my own labs, so getting mercury from the chemist or the chemical components to make hydrogen cyanide crystals was quite easy. Mercury poisoning, even though a small amount, in an appendage shot will produce neural trauma. Hydrogen cyanide in an appendage shot takes roughly 7 to 10 seconds, even if the shot isn't exactly on the mark due to some unseen reason, it's still an effective shot. Semtex is different story, I had to do the RDX/PETM mix myself, but not a difficult job since there is only one other drugstore-available component required. And yes, Semtex requires a trigger, that's why I used a .38 cap with a bit of magnesium powder. I have never experienced Semtex arbitrarily exploding because of a static charge between the holster and my hand, all of my holsters were leather ;-)

If I still had a proper lab I might try my luck with a bit of cubane, but I don't anymore ;-) Chemistry can be fun!

BTW, I've never killed an innocent person, so there goes that theory.

Cheers - Dave



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 01:54 PM
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Home Defense:

.223/5.56 M193 55 grain for home defense in a carbine is preferable. Unless you have to get loved ones out of nearby rooms and have to go get them, you'll not want to venture out of your "castle", whatever room that may be. While waiting for police and on the phone with emergency services, you want your .223/5.56 ready.

It sounds counter intuitive at first, but .223/5.56 is one of the best indoor cartridges. That's why police departments have been dropping their sub guns over the last 10 years or so. 9mm & .45, even hollow points, are very sturdy compared to all but the heaviest 5.56 bullets. As a result, 9mm & .45 retains a lot of velocity and lethality after penetrating soft barriers, whereas the lighter 5.56/223 bullets lose a tremendous amount of velocity (due to weight) or break up (due to weight + construction). 5.56/223, if unobstructed, can overcome soft body armor reliably whereas 9mm and .45 can not. The m193 fragments violently in flesh if above 2650 ft/s (much better than the M855 63 grain) and so is very lethal, and therefore effective for personal defense.

For Carry:

Hollow points all the way in spring, summer, fall. Depending on where you live, I'd go with polymer tip in the winter time to get reliable expansion. Hollow points have shown to get "clogged" with heavy clothing typically worn in the winter and so don't expand reliably.

Except for some revolver cartridges, pistol ammunition typicicaly doesn't have the velocity/energy transfer to create huge permanent cavities due to hydrostatic shock. Shooting someone to get them to stop (let alone kill them) is really all about hitting the right spot. Larger frontal area after penetration means a greater chance of hitting that organ, nerve, bone that gets the aggressor to stop.. Hollow points increase your odds over FMJ.

Mixing it up is a recipe for collateral damage in my opinion as well as accuracy fluctuations and all kinds of reliability surprises. Find a hollow point you trust, and practice with those loads so you know they're reliable, so you know what to expect, so you know where to aim.

It's an older design, but I have found nothing to convince me that there is a better 9mm hollow point for personal protection than Federal 115gr +p+ 9pble, it's what I carry. The gel tests of that round are ridiculous.

Edit: www.youtube.com...
edit on 11-11-2013 by Galvatron because: (no reason given)
edit on 11-11-2013 by Galvatron because: (no reason given)
edit on 11-11-2013 by Galvatron because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 01:55 PM
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Let's try to stick to the question at hand: FMJ vs HP. This is not about shotgun vs. pistol, or military vs civilian, or 9mm vs .45, or what the perfect rifle is. That was NOT the question so why are we taking off on these tangents? I take it this is also about self-defense, not "going to the range" where you could swap out types at your leisure if you want to feel the difference. Given that scenario your defense starts when you pull the trigger and ends when you are acquitted in court. It is a given that an aggressive prosecutor will question your motives for using a particular type NO MATTER WHICH ONE you choose.

If you use HPs the prosecutor will say, "You know they expand, so you were trying to kill this person. It was premeditated!" If you use FMJs he will say, "You had no regard for anyone else because you knew those can penetrate walls and buildings! You were reckless!" Your lawyer's job is to say, "He used HP because he knew the bullet would not leave the area."

Now, within that context mixing the two is senseless because in the heat of the moment you really wouldn't know which kind you were firing. It makes no real sense. You are needlessly complicating the situation.

The only time it would make some sense would be on the hiking trail where you loaded a snake shot round first.
edit on 11/11/2013 by schuyler because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 02:56 PM
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reply to post by JohnnySasaki
 

I do keep separate mags. Its come up at the range the past few weeks. Never thought about it, but I personally will keep my hp rounds in my mags the same. I might put the fmj's in another for the range. Other than that...I'd wouldnt mix...but was curious if it was just me that was unfamiliar with this practice?



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 03:00 PM
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if you mix you are practically guaranteed to be using the wrong ammo 50% of the time.



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 03:02 PM
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reply to post by buni11687
 

My thoughts are shared with yours. For self defense, I want the threat stopped as quickly as possible. Certainly I dont want my fmj's bouncing everywhere or continuing on and through someone...

The only change Ive made is Ive started keeping PDX+1 rounds in the mag instead of 124gr Hydro Shock HPS.

For range, I just use Federal's 9mm Luger fmjs.

The PDX+1 has a bit more stopping power.



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by kx12x
 

Thank you sir! You are helping me better express my question!!Mixing them up is not for me...and I didnt even consider it, until I understood the reasoning some owners expressed like yourself.

I was just a bit surprised, and I still think for me, one type in one mag for self defense is fine.

And, thank you for the posting the FIRST EXAMPLE of what I was trying to say about the why's and wherefore's to even consider using alternating rounds!



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by bobs_uruncle
 

Thank you Dave for the opinion. Im better understanding the issue.



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 03:21 PM
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reply to post by JohnnySasaki
 

Yes sir. I agree with you. I'm still leaving all hollow points in mine. My 9mm is my everyday, everywhere carry gun...and I do. I gave up carrying my S & W 357 mag after 10+ years-heavy son-of-a-gun (sorry).
Still? After being a revolver guy all these years...Im not real sure Im gonna like the semi auto.

Biggest difference is the 17 round chamber as opposed to the 6-round cylander...and of course, the weight. And, I am starting to get attached!

Thanks





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