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Tx Congressman on Warpath to Make Atheist Military Cadets Swear Oath Containing ‘So Help Me God’

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posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 10:56 AM
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FlyersFan

Kali74
reply to post by XionZap
 

I think maybe you should acquaint yourself with your new Pope.

That's an EXCELLENT idea ..
Pope Francis on Homosexuals - Who Am I To Judge
A 'Good Catholic' would pay attention to Pope Francis and what he has to say.


Every "Good Catholic" I know is reserving judgement on pope Francis - a Jesuit liberal.

My take on him? Francis is to the Church what Obama is to America. I see a direct correspondence between them, and that has to be real bad - real bad for Catholics and for the Church.




posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 11:00 AM
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reply to post by XionZap
 


Yea exactly, with the new pope, how can Catholics continue their proud tradition of oppressing everyone that isn't them?

You know maybe it's a good thing that you are stressing the difference between the generic term "Christian" from the specific term "Catholic." Most Christians aren't as intolerant as you are making the Catholic religion out to be. So I'm sure there are (and will be) many a Christian reading your hate speech and thanking God (again the all loving one) that you are stressing the Catholic angle.



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 11:00 AM
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XionZap
Every "Good Catholic" I know is reserving judgement on pope Francis - a Jesuit liberal.

Every 'Good Catholic' knows that where 'Peter is, there is the Church'.
Don't even try to out-Catholic me. You have no idea what my background is .....


And you haven't addressed what I posted ....

Show me how an Atheist can't shoot an M16 as well a Catholic.
Show me how a Jew can't drive a tank as well as a Baptist.
etc etc ......
And again ... good luck with that ....
edit on 11/11/2013 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 11:08 AM
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reply to post by XionZap
 



My take on him? Francis is to the Church what Obama is to America. I see a direct correspondence between them, and that has to be real bad - real bad for Catholics and for the Church.


According to your own Catholic dogma...isn't what you just said blasphemy?

Isn't the pope chosen by God? And isn't there something about papal infallibility?

Seems like you are the typical cafeteria Catholic.



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 11:16 AM
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reply to post by XionZap
 




Every "Good Catholic" I know is reserving judgement on pope Francis - a Jesuit liberal.

My take on him? Francis is to the Church what Obama is to America. I see a direct correspondence between them, and that has to be real bad - real bad for Catholics and for the Church.


I'm sorry but doesn't this force you to trade on your entire religious belief system to favor your ideological belief system? After all isn't it God that tells the Conclave who the next Pope will be? Or are you saying your God's divine proclamations are vulnerable to mere men?



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 11:32 AM
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It's interesting to see where threads drift when posting this one I was wondering what kind of person would back the congressmans bill and now I have a good idea.

Something I find very peculiar is how there is a group that believes only Christians have a right if you will to wage war. That seriously does not make sense to me. I thought Christians would want to distance themselves from the dirty business of killing.

I served 3 combat tours as an agnostic atheist and served 2 other tours in peace time religion wasn't an issue with being a good soldier. I did drink a lot then but so did most everyone else but that stopped when I got out.

I even met my wife in the military and she was a good soldier that was on the fast track but we each had our own reasons not to stay in. BTW she is religious I am not it doesn't cause any problems.

Anyway the idea that only Christian men make good soldiers has been thoroughly disproven.



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 12:01 PM
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US Atheists Can Now Attend a 'Mega-Church'

Is this still on topic? I think it is, because these weirdo's are bound to insinuate (infiltrate actually) themselves into what was once known as the US Armed Forces - now defunct.

Talk about a perverse inversion. Wouldn't you know it - only an atheist would have the audacity to create the ultimate oxymoron. Keep it up folks. Before you know it Obama will allow the Armed Service Chaplains to preach to the "condemned."


Which of these things is not like the other: Sunday mornings, music, inspirational speakers, atheists? Trick question! They all belong together, reports the AP in a look at the "atheist mega-churches" that are now finding a toehold in the US. The "Sunday Assemblies" have relatively short roots, having been started in Britain earlier this year by comedians Sanderson Jones and Pippa Evans. They're currently touring the US and Australia in an effort to launch, promote, and raise funds for these pop-up congregations (their take to-date: $50,000 of an $800,000 goal).



edit on 11-11-2013 by XionZap because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 12:04 PM
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XionZap
because these weirdo's are bound to insinuate (infiltrate actually) themselves into what was once known as the US Armed Forces - now defunct.


Again you deflect. Show us how exactly an atheist can't shoot an M16 as well as a Catholic.
Still waiting on you to post that information to prove yourself correct. Good luck with that.



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 12:16 PM
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POST REMOVED BY STAFF

edit on Mon Nov 11 2013 by DontTreadOnMe because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 12:19 PM
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Seems to me that only someone with no regard for anyone's belief system and no faith in their own would be making such an issue of this.

Or, oh yeah, someone pandering for votes. Which, if you think about it? See above.



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 12:24 PM
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reply to post by XionZap
 





I needed a good laugh - show me a Jew who has lately joined the military to fight for this country - what a joke, Ha ha ha what a big laugh that is.


That is really ignorant there. Do you not think Jews serve in the US military? I have news for you they do and they serve this country just as well as anyone else.



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 01:37 PM
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XionZap
I needed a good laugh - show me a Jew who has lately joined the military to fight for this country - what a joke, Ha ha ha what a big laugh that is.


You have NO FREAK'n IDEA what you are talking about.

Again ... I served in the US Army for five years as a Chaplain Assistant. We got the stats on the religious affiliations of the troops. There were many Jews who were in the Army. Many. The Rabbi on post was in service as well as the troops who were Jewish. I used to have lunch at the Jewish chapel every so often. They had a kosher kitchen and the food was good.

Religious Demographics for the US Military Forces - 2009
There are 4,697 active Jewish personnel in the US Military.
For that matter, there are 2,500 Wiccans/Macik
There are 283,671 who have no religious preference
There are 8,000 atheist/agnostic troops.

AGAIN - TELL US HOW YOU CAN TELL THEM APART ON THE M16 RANGE.
edit on 11/11/2013 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 01:51 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


I think Mr. XZ has an overriding agenda much deeper than the religious makeup of the military...

This one....his sig is self explanatory


www.realjewnews.com...



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 01:51 PM
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FlyersFan

XionZap
because these weirdo's are bound to insinuate (infiltrate actually) themselves into what was once known as the US Armed Forces - now defunct.


Again you deflect. Show us how exactly an atheist can't shoot an M16 as well as a Catholic.
Still waiting on you to post that information to prove yourself correct. Good luck with that.



You may want to just give up, this guy is either a troll or so far up his own ass in his bigotry that he refuses to listen to logical reason and debate. Unfortunately, it is people like him that make up a good portion of our voter base and are a good reason why we still have debates about dumb topics like if contraception is permissible. He also hasn't refuted or responded to any of my posts with legitimate criticism.

This guy has clearly never been in the military, doesn't have clue 1 about how the military works and goes about its day to day, he is just speaking from his "Catholic high ground" like any other religious nutjob who can't seem to come to terms with the fact that there are people who think differently than they do and shouldn't be marginalized to the footnotes of our history books. The funniest part about his mentality is that he thinks that WE are the ones who will burn, yet fails to see the hypocrisy and irony in his EXTREMELY judgmental and close-minded attitude.
edit on 11-11-2013 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 02:08 PM
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Grimpachi
Honestly do these people not have anything better to do? Do we really need a bill to force people into swearing to something they do not believe in?




I get what you're saying. But at the same time, I can see two sides on this one. Do we really need one? I don't think so. Though I can see how some religiously-minded people might think so. While an "oath to god" might mean little or nothing to an atheist, it is important and binding to the religiously-minded.


Now, on the one hand I recognize the right and need for religious freedom. For everyone. Including atheists. And the part of me that recognizes this as having supreme importance, agrees that atheists probably should not be forced to take an oath to a god they don't believe in.


On the other hand, they are atheists. And if they truly don't believe in god, why should it be a big deal? We're not talking about impressionable young children being taught creationism, which could influence their beliefs in life. We are talking about grown adults, who have already formed their beliefs, to one degree or another.

Now, were it a christian, and they made a law where they had to take an "Oath to Satan" or an "Oath to Vishnu" or whatever else, that would be a violation of their religious practice. Because their religion forbids them from believing in or praying to other gods.


An atheist believes in nothing. No god. Therefore, in the most technical sense possible, it does not "matter" if they are praying to a "false god." Perhaps actual belief, or actual prayer would go against the beliefs of their religion (atheism.) However, there is no punishment for this. They could simply view to see it as a necessary but stupid formality, a relic from an era where more people were religious than not. Or, they could handle it the way atheists in groups like "Alcoholics Anonymous" do. Among the first steps for someone in a "12 step" program for addiction, is to recognize themselves as powerless against the addiction, and call on help from a higher power. But it is explained that a "higher power" could be seen as one's higher self, the 12 step program itself, really anything you want, that is greater than one's ego.


And could not atheists required to take such a vow use a similar view? That the "god" they're swearing to is the collective concept of "Our Country," or even "myself?"




Don't get me wrong.... I generally agree that no one should be forced to do anything involving or in the name of religion against their will. I guess I'm just wondering why an atheist would see this as such a big deal, if they consider the concept of "god" to be stupid in the first place?


"Yeah, sure, I swear.... whatever...." kind of stuff.



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 02:11 PM
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I just don't see what the issue is. If they don't believe in God why do they even care? If my job told me I had to take a pledge and at the end said "so help me Lord Spaghetti". I'd have no problem saying it, it doesn't mean anything. Atheism has been hijacked by anti-God activists.



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 02:13 PM
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This is why i hate religious politicians more than others. Don't even talk about the sheeps that follow religious politician because he mentioned gods.

Need to check every politicians background b4 letting them run. Drug, Violence, Criminal Record, Religious extremism... etc



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by jjkenobi
 


Um... so if someone tells you to do something you are uncomfortable with.. you should just do it? as long as you don't believe in it.



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 03:12 PM
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jjkenobi
I just don't see what the issue is. If they don't believe in God why do they even care? If my job told me I had to take a pledge and at the end said "so help me Lord Spaghetti". I'd have no problem saying it, it doesn't mean anything. Atheism has been hijacked by anti-God activists.


Lying to make an oath seems like a bad combination to me.



posted on Nov, 11 2013 @ 03:58 PM
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reply to post by iwilliam
 


To be honest I can’t remember if there was a god reference when I enlisted or any of the times I re-enlisted. I have always been agnostic leaning toward atheist. I admit there is just no honest way to be certain so for me it wouldn’t have been a problem. Imagine though if I believed in multiple deity’s or as you said someone was a Satanist they would have reason to take issue. As long as they do their job I wouldn’t care. The military was a great experience for me the only color that mattered was green the only belief that mattered was in each other.

However as another poster pointed out starting out a career with a lie isn’t a good idea.
I think the so help me god part was optional for enlisted personnel when I was in. I just can't remember.




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