Does The Poppy Glorify War?

DeadSeraph
reply to post by Act1Scene1

 

It's from a poem written by a Canadian World War I vet:

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie,
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

- John McCrae

edit on 10-11-2013 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)

Which is precisely what I was pointing out to the poster who decided to use this thread as a venue for expressing their opinions about coalition forces in Afghanistan.

Your attempt to patronise me was both childish and disrespectful. I'll be sure to reciprocate should I encounter you again.

reply to post by andy06shake


Thought you might like this quote.

"We must be prepared to make heroic sacrifices for the cause of peace that we make ungrudgingly for the cause of war. There is no task that is more important or closer to my heart."
— Albert Einstein

Great man.
ALS

ALOSTSOUL
reply to post by mistersmith

 

Celebrating the bravery of our soldiers distracts us from the way they were brutally thrown at the cannons by the governments of both sides.

No. We remember because we all as human know the brutality of war. We know the governments start these wars. It is not a distraction. To me remembrance day is an apology, it is a duty. A duty to all the war dead that we acknowledge their sacrifice whether they thought of it as one or not.

ALS

This right here. These men didn't willingly go to their deaths as pawns of "TPTB". Some of them died as conscripts, some of them died as volunteers for their own personal ideals, and some of them died as heroes to their fellow soldiers and countrymen, smothering grenades with their own bodies for the sake of those around them or sacrificing their own limbs for each other.

Is war to be glorified? Hell no. That is why you should wear a red poppy with pride. Not only "Lest We Forget" but also "NEVER AGAIN".

mistersmith

Celebrating the bravery of our soldiers distracts us from the way they were brutally thrown at the cannons by the governments of both sides.

Few expected to die, so talk of sacrifice, and laying down their lives, would have elicited a hollow laugh from most of them, I think.

By wearing a poppy of any sort, I feel I would give tacit support to the idea that war, rather than heroism, can be glorious, or even just acceptable.

mistersmith

Great reply. My thoughts exactly.

There is nothing honorable in killing or dying for the profits and politics of the elite, especially in conflicts as non-sensical and horrific as the first world war.

"When you get shot to pieces for my money far away from home, I'll get all the other dumb sheep to wear a flower for you". Sounds like a great deal. Not.

Act1Scene1

Which is precisely what I was pointing out to the poster who decided to use this thread as a venue for expressing their opinions about coalition forces in Afghanistan.

I didn't use this thread as a venue to express my opinion re: coalition forces in Afghanstan, I'm simply showing when I think poppy I think of the fields being protected by western troops. Therefore to me poppy = war. I didn't think my point was so opaque.

reply to post by Ismail


I do not like the disrespectful tone of your post so I'll leave you with this.

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
— John Stuart Mill

ALS

For a time that we are supposed to think about our own mortality and penchant for war, and to honor those who were victim to our past avarice, you would think we would be far less confrontational about remembrance day, and far more respectful.

Call me old fashioned, but I consider such petty bickering to be shameful. Politics has no place in the hall of heroes.

Rosinitiate

Act1Scene1

Which is precisely what I was pointing out to the poster who decided to use this thread as a venue for expressing their opinions about coalition forces in Afghanistan.

I didn't use this thread as a venue to express my opinion re: coalition forces in Afghanstan, I'm simply showing when I think poppy I think of the fields being protected by western troops. Therefore to me poppy = war. I didn't think my point was so opaque.

The red poppy has nothing to do with poppies in Afghanistan, surely you must know this. The story of the red poppy is a touching and often harrowing one.

Please I urge you all to read stories from WWI before you start judging those that went to fight it. Afterwards you may understand why they deserve our thoughts.

ALS

ALOSTSOUL

The red poppy has nothing to do with poppies in Afghanistan, surely you must know this. The story of the red poppy is a touching and often harrowing one.

Please I urge you all to read stories from WWI before you start judging those that went to fight it. Afterwards you may understand why they deserve our thoughts.

Of course I understand that but it shows why the word can have different meanings to different people.

Look, I understand peoples sensativities and I'm not trying to dump on your thread or those who fought for what they thought was a good cause. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and someitmes it can be divisive. That said, I don't sense too many in the thread being overly sensative but there are one or two....

also, where have I ever judged anyone who went to fight WWI? Besides if I was going to pass judgement it wouldn't be those who were mislead anyways, I would judge those who drove the world to that end.

reply to post by ALOSTSOUL


Sorry you did'nt like my tone. Allow me to add to that distaste.

I'm not saying that no things are worth fighting for. There is however a big difference between fighting and war. What I am saying is that war is a backwards, counterproductive way of solving problems. For example, we don't agree on this issue. Are you going to kill me for it ?

War is the failure of diplomacy and the rational mind. The glorification of the military, and the "sacrifice" of all those brave idiots, is insulting to our collective intelligence to say the least. I am not interested in the emotion fueled martyr bandwagon so many jump upon to justify their actions or the actions of their country. I don't care what those young men thought that they were going to war for, the cold hard truth is that someone who died with his guts sprayed all over a field for some rich dude's financial gain is not deserving of anyone's respect.

These "glorious dead" went far away from home to kill other young men over disputes that they did not even understand. I have no respect to spare for indoctrinated morons, be they dead or alive, nor do I have any more for the brain-washed masses who still support the idea that taking another man's life/land/ressources has ever solved any problem, ever.

Finding a cure to cancer is deserving of respect. It benefits us all. Dying in the mud under false pretenses is not.

Just take a few minutes to listen the words

And yes I would still answer the call again

Respect
Cody

reply to post by ALOSTSOUL



I can understand your point of view.

My father was a bomber pilot, and dropped incendiary bombs on Dresden.
He knew he was incinerating not troops, but women and children, hospitals and schools.
I'm sure he was brave, but that is not the sort of heroism I want to venerate.

Some of the comments here regarding sacrificing for your country and other jingoistic crap reveal a pathetic acceptance of ancient propaganda, and inability to think independently.
No change there then.

mistersmith.

cody599

And yes I would still answer the call again

edit on 10/11/13 by cody599 because: (no reason given)

So you actually managed to miss the whole point of a song that you yourself just posted ?

reply to post by cody599


If your shooting is as bad as your reasoning, you'd best fix bayonets and charge old son, it's the best chance you've got...

mistersmith.

mistersmith
reply to post by cody599

 

If your shooting is as bad as your reasoning, you'd best fix bayonets and charge old son, it's the best chance you've got...

mistersmith.

I just sprayed my beer out of my nostrils. Painfull.

Its a time to remember how bad war is and why we should do everything to avoid anything like it happening ever again. I'm hopeful we will never see conflict on such huge scales as ww1 and ww2 again, but you never know.

Remembrance Sunday and the wearing of poppy's has nothing to do with the politics of war;
It's about remembering and respecting all those people of all nationalities who fought and in many cases paid the ultimate sacrifice.
And it's about acknowledging the futility and waste of war.

That's why I wear my poppy - it has nothing to do with jingoistic national pride or the gloritication of war, quite the opposite.

reply to post by ALOSTSOUL


Every Canadian learns this poem in grade school, written during the first world war by Lieutenant Colonel John McCrae, a Canadian.

en.wikipedia.org...

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved, and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands, we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

I wear my poppy to remember Allied war dead. I feel sorry for you if you feel that it glorifies war, the only thing it glorifies are the dead, and reminds us to remember them and keep them in our hearts.

Lest we forget.

I wear a poppy to remember those who have died in wars and to give financial support to those who have survived.

not interested in all the political crap involved/

I give my money away all the time to 'causes'...if I am convinced the money will go to the target recipients.

The way I see it, vets of any conflict, children, grandchildren, wives etc. don't recieve enough in government payment for services rendered. If my small amounts help...I'll do it...while everyone's discussing the pros and cons of fighting, not fighting...

It's a small contribution to make...the price of a coffee...who thinks about where the beans came from? How they were picked? Under what pay and employment conditions?

The poppy money doesn't go to the military establishment.

Å99