The winds of Life Vol 1 (Who am I really )

reply to post by NiNjABackflip
How can you say without a body are not aware? Have you experienced this body-lessness so that you can make claims about it. Its just an assumption without basis.
All you can say is that you don't know if without your body you would be aware.
I would say that when in deep sleep(no self consciousness/body consciousness) I have been aware that I am aware. That same awareness which tells you in a lucid dream what state you are in and that you are one with the dream .

A foundation is the basis for which something stands , you said your body was your foundation thats why I asked what you are building i.e what is it stands on your body. Could the ego be what is built on the I am the body thought.
Isn't it your mind that tells you you are the body. The body cannot tell you who you are. Everything you think goes through your mind. Everything you sense is not without your mind telling you what you sense.
Seer ,seeing and seen are not done by the body(eye). The eye is just and instrument.

When you see someone asleep you can only infer that their eyes are closed and that they are not moving. Their experienced state is unknown to you . Even inferring their person(personality) while asleep(not self conscious) is the same is incorrect.

The answer to Who am I cannot be " the person who asks questions" if you are not asking questions.
How do you know what happens when you are in deep sleep?

reply to post by sulaw


Do you always think" I am a man" ?
When you are not self conscious or not thinking "I am a man" all the time who are you in those moments?
What does "Man" mean to you?

reply to post by BDBinc

What does "Man" mean to you?

Hardworking, Honest, Dependable, Trustworthy, Loyal, Kind, Cheerful when most other outlooks point other ways, Helpful, Skilled, Gets up at the crack of dawn to get the job done, Makes sure there's food in the bellies and love's his family unconditionally even when there being tyrants, Teaches and not preaches, Strong and Gentle.

Reads Dr. Suess's Green eggs and ham to much as that's what my initial response sounded like...

I will not eat green eggs and ham, sam I am

I will not eat them here, nor there

I will not eat them anywhere!!!

reply to post by sulaw

Hardworking, Honest, Dependable, Trustworthy, Loyal, Kind, Cheerful when most other outlooks point other ways, Helpful, Skilled, Gets up at the crack of dawn to get the job done, Makes sure there's food in the bellies and love's his family unconditionally even when there being tyrants, Teaches and not preaches, Strong and Gentle.

Ahem...that would make a fine definition for the word "human". We should expect such things of all human beings, not just men.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Ahem~ This was the question that was posed to me.

What does "Man" mean to you?

To which I gave my response.

Should all humans strive for that??? Sure, but that's sadly not the case, is it AI?

I find it coy that was your response, you musta liked what I said... Rarity to the peculiar, peculiar kind

sulaw
reply to post by BDBinc

 

What does "Man" mean to you?

Hardworking, Honest, Dependable, Trustworthy, Loyal, Kind, Cheerful when most other outlooks point other ways, Helpful, Skilled, Gets up at the crack of dawn to get the job done, Makes sure there's food in the bellies and love's his family unconditionally even when there being tyrants, Teaches and not preaches, Strong and Gentle.

Reads Dr. Suess's Green eggs and ham to much as that's what my initial response sounded like...

I will not eat green eggs and ham, sam I am

I will not eat them here, nor there

I will not eat them anywhere!!!

All the attributes are you always ?
These are positive qualities considered distinctive of a human being.
So when you get angry are you "angry" or are you still "I am a man"?
When you are in deep sleep you are not displaying any these qualities ( you are not self conscious) then what do you identify with?
When you were a small child you did not think who you were was [a loving husband and father], yet you still were, being without identifying yourself as" a quality" of man.

reply to post by BDBinc

All the attributes are you always ?
These are positive qualities considered distinctive of a human being.
So when you get angry are you "angry" or are you still "I am a man"?
When you are in deep sleep you are not displaying any these qualities ( you are not self conscious) then what do you identify with?
When you were a small child you did not think who you were was [a loving husband and father], yet you still were, being without identifying yourself as" a quality" of man.

Then I am an Angry Man, who doesn't understand why people do the things they do, even though Angry does not mean uncompasionate or lose of love, anger defines a underlying problem which needs attention whether it's in myself or another's.

When I sleep, I'm lucid, when I dream, I see the same individual I emobody here in the present posed in different lights and times. Ones self even though not self concious doesn't change the person that is dreaming. Sleep is just another form of meditation.

When I was a child I thought as a child, the mistake's my father made I saw clear but could not change him because I am me and he is he. (Damn that Sam I am!!!) Am I still the same child? When you get to the heart of me, I am. With a hardened shell of what I value as a man should be.

To embody the virtues I listed, is to equip yourself for the battlefield of life. Each virtue grows as you age and years pass. I am not perfect, I strive to be by my own definition and virtues. To some it would seem unfeasable or unatainable, nothing is impossible (heart of a child), it just takes practice.

reply to post by sulaw

Anger is a feeling, you are not angry, that is not who you are. Thinking yourself a person you feel anger when your ideas of who you are, your person/ego, is threatened.
Who is it that knows this feeling of anger and knows it means there is a problem(one needs attention) when it arises?
Its is not feelings and virtuous qualities.

When you dream you are still self conscious. What can you tell me about your deep sleep? Who are you in deep sleep?

You are saying now what you thought as a child that you thought “I am a child “. But it is only now that you think that . When you were a young child you just were. That pure Being you still are. That is the heart of a child, the unconditioned state of just being without being identified as this or that thing.
“Am I still the same child? When you get to the heart of me, I am. “
Yes you are.
But covered up with a hardened shell (ego/person) consisting of what you think you should be and what you should value and fighting for the image . Making life feel like you are in a battlefield.

A good quote from talks with Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj “Your ideas about yourself change from moment to moment. Your self image is the most changeful thing you have . A bereavement, the loss of a job, an insult and your image of yourself , which you call your person, changes deeply.
To know what you are you must first investigate what you are not. Separate consistently the ‘ I am’ from ‘this’ or ‘that’ and try to feel what it means to just be without being ‘this’ or ‘that’.”

If you want to win the war keep asking yourself 'Who am I' until you know.

reply to post by BDBinc


I feel like I just sat down with Sigmund Freud!!!

A good quote from talks with Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj “Your ideas about yourself change from moment to moment. Your self image is the most changeful thing you have . A bereavement, the loss of a job, an insult and your image of yourself , which you call your person, changes deeply.
To know what you are you must first investigate what you are not. Separate consistently the ‘ I am’ from ‘this’ or ‘that’ and try to feel what it means to just be without being ‘this’ or ‘that’.”

A truelly wonderful quote, and I see where your going.

Change is the only constant that anyone has in life, and it does change one's outlook and perspective, even up to but not excluding morales and virtues.

I guess when it comes down to it, I am none of those things as they are the shell/ego of what I define in my life that I strive to keep constant.

Taken away just a man with the heart of the child who wants to play with everyone and is lost just the same.

How was that??? I'm truelly enjoying this discussion btw!!!

Best regards,

reply to post by sulaw




How could we know change without the constant changeless background.

When the self image changes so does one's outlook and perspective [even creating "morales and virtues." ] It is fragile and false.

You need not strive to keep the changeless constant. Its easier to stop believing you are a person and stop fighting for the desires and fears of that ego. Keep the question in mind.


Take away the label" a man" and you are found as the heart of a child, pure being and when we are not in that peace/source we do feel lost. And we then seek and strive for what we have never lost as we've just forgotten who we are. This false identification causes endless suffering .

reply to post by BDBinc

How can you say without a body are not aware? Have you experienced this body-lessness so that you can make claims about it. Its just an assumption without basis.

Find me one being that exists without a body, and you may have a point. But someone with a body saying they experience "bodylessness" is a huge joke. Throw your body in a fire and really become bodiless. Until then, you can only be body.

All you can say is that you don't know if without your body you would be aware.
I would say that when in deep sleep(no self consciousness/body consciousness) I have been aware that I am aware. That same awareness which tells you in a lucid dream what state you are in and that you are one with the dream .

You are only one with yourself—that which dreams.

A foundation is the basis for which something stands , you said your body was your foundation thats why I asked what you are building i.e what is it stands on your body. Could the ego be what is built on the I am the body thought.

No. It is built on the "I am not the body" thought. You're the one that believes in ego, I don't. You're the one that supports it with your "foundation".

Isn't it your mind that tells you you are the body. The body cannot tell you who you are. Everything you think goes through your mind. Everything you sense is not without your mind telling you what you sense.
Seer ,seeing and seen are not done by the body(eye). The eye is just and instrument.

The mind is the body. Everything within the body is a part of the body, and therefor the body. Seeing is done by the body. An eye detached from the body cannot see. Therefor it is not the eye, but the body that sees.

When you see someone asleep you can only infer that their eyes are closed and that they are not moving. Their experienced state is unknown to you . Even inferring their person(personality) while asleep(not self conscious) is the same is incorrect.

They are experiencing sleep, nothing more. Film yourself while you sleep and you will see that your travels happened only in your imagination.

The answer to Who am I cannot be " the person who asks questions" if you are not asking questions.
How do you know what happens when you are in deep sleep?

Then I am that which asks questions when it asks questions. I am that which sleeps when it sleeps. A little better?

reply to post by NiNjABackflip


You without body consciousness, as in deep sleep, still exist.
Deep sleep is not the same state as dreaming.
Deep sleep is not a dream state.
In the dream state ( if you are lucid )you become aware that you are dreaming and when you do you can consciously alter the dream.
How do you know you are not dreaming?

A foundation is the basis for which something stands , you said your body was your foundation that is why I asked what you are building i.e what is it stands on your body. Could the ego be what is built on the I am the body thought.
“I am not the body” is a thought.
As it was you who said you think the the body is your foundation what did you mean?
Support for the ego comes with the thought “I am the body mind”.
All your senses get filtered through the mind. The body does not know it is insentient . The eye is an instrument each sense has its corresponding instrument.
The body is in the mind.
Awareness is not a thought .

How can you claim to know what people that are in deep sleep experience?
You didn’t even remember and cannot talk about your experience of deep sleep. If you film them all you can see is their eyes are closed and they are not moving.
(And I did not say they ‘traveled’ that is what you are saying.)

Now you are ‘that’ which asks questions when' IT' asks questions. If you think you are are ‘that’ and ‘IT’ who are you when there are no questions ? What is That and IT?
If you are ‘That which sleeps when it sleeps’ when in the waking state or in the dream state are you non existent? Do you think you are you a state of the mind body?
You have changed your answer to Who am I to I am ‘That’ and ‘IT’ all in reference to asking questions and deep sleep (a state which you cannot describe the experience).