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UK soldier found guilty of Afghan murder

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posted on Dec, 7 2013 @ 11:50 AM
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iRoyalty
You're bordering racism because you're instantly assuming that because they're Afghani, that they're barbarians. How do you know this guy didn't fight with a bit of honour and honesty?


Afghani? Who is saying they're barbaric because they're Afghani? I didn't. I say they're barbaric because they're Islamist extremists who believe women have no rights to education, who behead people who do not believe in Islam and stone people to death. I couldn't care what race/colour or country they're from.

You however, do... Fascinating you assumed I was talking about Afghani people when I was talking about religious extremists. You seem to be the one with racial issues, not me.


My point is, that if you're saying they are barbaric and deserve to die for doing stuff like killing unarmed men, then why do you condone it for our own troops?


I'm not - I'm tarnishing both with the same brush. I'm saying if BOTH sides are in a war, then what difference does it make if one side executes a soldier? People like you are saying we in the West should NOT execute an injured enemy. They would - why shouldn't we? All I'm saying is it's war - there's no "appropriate" way to act when you're killing people...


It's like you're saying it's not ok for them to do it, but it's ok for us to do it? How do you come to that conclusion? My only thought for you thinking this is because we're mostly white and they are brown? That is the only difference between us.


I'm not, at all. THAT'S my point. Why is our soldier being convicted of murder when he rightly executed an enemy soldier on the battlefield when they, the Islamist extremists, would and do the same? Why are the western forces being held to some "higher standard" of war operation when the enemy do not?


I would rather, they treated us like crap and we treated them with respect then while the rest of the world looks on (including the Afghani people) they will not think we're ruthless invaders who have come to **** people up!


WTF?! WHy should we play by the rules and they don't? Because in that case, we always lose. Perception is b*llsh*t. It changes by whoever spins the best rhetoric and propaganda - on both sides. It's subjective and it doesn't make a difference to the outcome.


Especially the Afghani people, why do you think there are no end to insurgents that are willing to do barbaric things to British troops? Because recruitment is at an all time high when the foreigners who are invading are killing unarmed people and bombing civilian structures.

I agree with you that war is ugly, there is nothing good about it and it will bring out the worst in people. That doesn't mean we should agree with it.


No - war is bad all round. But if we're engaged in it, why "act" like some moral do-gooder? Like we have "the right" to do it because we doing it under the guise of liberation and freedom?

It's either war, or it isn't. There isn't an in between and the fact that our guys get judged and sentenced for killing a enemy who JUST TRIED TO KILL THEM is utter madness. We may as well stand around with flowers and ask them to be nice to us or else we'll get sued.

Pathetic.
edit on 7-12-2013 by noonebutme because: (no reason given)
edit on 7-12-2013 by noonebutme because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 8 2013 @ 05:24 AM
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reply to post by noonebutme
 


Ok, I mistook you for one of these people who are always saying "**** those savages" and stuff, I get sick of that... I'm friends with a few middle eastern Muslims and they show more humanity than most other people I know!

It seems like we'll have to agree to disagree, I'm not getting through... I just don't see why you are here calling them barbarians then saying we should do it back? That's just hypocritical. The only reason we should try and be respectful is to stop the support for the extremists, they use stuff like this to recruit, we're only spreading the extremist ideology by showing that we are exactly what they have been preaching about. Our troops don't do us any favours by killing unarmed, injured soldiers, what did he gain from that?? Nothing except to show the people there that the Taliban were right about us.

I would also like to point out that they are probably using the same logic as you.
edit on 8-12-2013 by iRoyalty because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2013 @ 07:38 AM
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I hate how people who have never witnessed war and death or experienced bullets whizzing over their heads judge this Marine, sure it was a lapse in his professional judgement but who can blame him?

People on this forum cheer when a petty thief is shot by law abiding citizens or 'good cops' but when an insurgent who believes stoning women is a perfectly normal thing to do is shot by a soldier in a REAL war zone he is labelled as a barbarian and evil.



posted on Dec, 8 2013 @ 07:41 AM
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reply to post by daaskapital
 



I agree

Whilst I can understand why the soldier did it, the fact is that its still a war crime and as such cannot be tolerated. We are not the Taliban. We have honour.



posted on Dec, 8 2013 @ 09:51 AM
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Sozen94
I hate how people who have never witnessed war and death or experienced bullets whizzing over their heads judge this Marine, sure it was a lapse in his professional judgement but who can blame him?

People on this forum cheer when a petty thief is shot by law abiding citizens or 'good cops' but when an insurgent who believes stoning women is a perfectly normal thing to do is shot by a soldier in a REAL war zone he is labelled as a barbarian and evil.

And you know he believes stoning women is normal how...Maybe the guy just wants to push a foreign invader from his Homeland.
If my Country is invaded by a Foreign Nation, I'd be fighting back by whatever means and i'm sure you would to.
The Marine Broke the Geneva convention by executing a fellow soldier in cold Blood.... That makes him no better than those who behead their enemies on video. Murder is Murder.



posted on Dec, 8 2013 @ 03:13 PM
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iRoyalty Our troops don't do us any favours by killing unarmed, injured soldiers, what did he gain from that?? Nothing except to show the people there that the Taliban were right about us.


I'd argue otherwise. I'd say we have one less person who believes in an extreme views, such as women being denied the right of education or a young girl be shot in the head when she voices her opinion against said extreme views.

Yes, I'm happy to disagree. But I still maintain the fact that it's war - it isn't nice, it isn't pleasant and if we, the West, follow the rules and they, the extremists, do not - then it's a situation we'll never win.

People like the Taliban, are people we do not need in this world. So if our soldier executes one of them, in battle, so what?



posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 07:38 AM
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reply to post by Soloprotocol
 


The Taliban aren't classed as soldiers, they're classed as 'unlawful combatants'. They don't wear a uniform, therefore they don't come under the protection of the Geneva Convention.



posted on Dec, 11 2013 @ 06:09 AM
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Sozen94
reply to post by Soloprotocol
 


The Taliban aren't classed as soldiers, they're classed as 'unlawful combatants'. They don't wear a uniform, therefore they don't come under the protection of the Geneva Convention.

Classed by whom...us?. if you believe you have to wear a uniform to be classed as a soldier you are way off the mark...special forces are operating in afghanistan and iraq dressed in civilian clothing on a daily basis...does that make them unlawful combatants?



posted on Dec, 11 2013 @ 08:11 AM
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reply to post by Soloprotocol
 


That's completely different, as they belong to a country's armed forces. What force do the Taliban belong to? They're called insurgents for a reason, ya know.

The uniform means they belong to a conventional army, something the Taliban aren't a part of.



posted on Dec, 11 2013 @ 08:26 AM
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"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"


It's not about what they did or they do, like some tit for tat contest, we have standards and morals because it's
The right thing to do.
How could we possibly lecture other nations and people on human rights issues if we allowed things like this to be the norm and go unpunished.

What this soldier did was disgraceful and was premeditated, cold blooded murder.
He brought shame on the British Armed Forces and deserves the punishment he received.
Nobody can justify his actions. Sympathise and understand, yes, but not justify, neither morally or legally.
edit on 11-12-2013 by stargatetravels because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2013 @ 08:28 AM
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I believe the soldier did the right thing. What did they think not killing him would somehow achieve anything? Did they think they would give this Taliban who has been brought up with a twisted and incorrect version of Islam preached to him since he was a boy and has nothing but hatred for these westerners, did they think after they gave him some medicine they would all shake hands and have a drink. No the Taliban would find a way to strike again since he is willing to die for his cause. How many more people could he have killed or harmed alive. Or in jail what good is he, even more bitter now he has been shot. He is the enemy, he was put out of his misery. It's war.



posted on Dec, 11 2013 @ 08:41 AM
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reply to post by Blue Goblin
 


You have to remember that these people were TAUGHT violence, so they can be taught compassion. They are being brainwashed to say we are allied with the devil, we are evil and horrible Djinn that must be wiped from the earth. However if they see the violence, anger and hatred in their own ranks and see nothing but respect and compassion in ours, they will understand that the hatred and violence they posses is not correct.

That is something I have never understood about torture, you will never get reliable information. If I had someone electroshocking my testicles in the morning and waterboarding me for afters, then I would tell them I am Lucifer himself!

However, if you were to show them that it is our cause that is just, we are the ones trying to help his people and his family and that we are not here to spread chaos and suffering then he would be more willing to help. These people aren't evil, they are brainwashed.



posted on Dec, 11 2013 @ 08:51 AM
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iRoyalty
reply to post by Blue Goblin
 


You have to remember that these people were TAUGHT violence, so they can be taught compassion. They are being brainwashed to say we are allied with the devil, we are evil and horrible Djinn that must be wiped from the earth. However if they see the violence, anger and hatred in their own ranks and see nothing but respect and compassion in ours, they will understand that the hatred and violence they posses is not correct.

That is something I have never understood about torture, you will never get reliable information. If I had someone electroshocking my testicles in the morning and waterboarding me for afters, then I would tell them I am Lucifer himself!

However, if you were to show them that it is our cause that is just, we are the ones trying to help his people and his family and that we are not here to spread chaos and suffering then he would be more willing to help. These people aren't evil, they are brainwashed.


And they are brainwashed to a degree that everything you said will likely not happen. In their eyes it would be as ridiculous as we find Christian gay to straight camps. Not to mention it's impracticable to do this to every injured taliban we pick up, especially as we continue to kill their brothers.
edit on 11/12/13 by Blue Goblin because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2013 @ 09:28 AM
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reply to post by Blue Goblin
 


Yes, this is very true, it would be a massive waste of resources to try to reform one militant, and then it would be used as propaganda that we're brainwashing them... It's a very difficult subject but I still think we should try and show some sense of morality and respect where we can. Otherwise we are no better and we just justify their cause.



posted on Dec, 11 2013 @ 11:11 AM
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reply to post by noonebutme
 



I am on the fence on this one.

War is war and when your enemies don't play by the rules and laws and do whatever they can to kill then they deserve no mercy. Rules of engagement are pathetic and cost more lives on our side than by the enemies.

The fact is that we have Hit Men aka Special forces teams roaming around the globe assassinating bad guys damn near everyday. They are doing what the military was intended for and most of them are mental as hell. If you want to kill monsters then you have create your own and send them in against others.

If this had not been made public then he would have never been punished to start with. Anyone with any sense knows it too. This happens all of the time in the theater of war.





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