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Are You Willing to be Non-Partisan ? What is Your Liberty Worth ?

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posted on Nov, 9 2013 @ 02:01 PM
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whyamIhere

olaru12
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


I really don't think I deserved the snarky comments, but if you can dish them out I'm prepared to take them.

If I can't find amusement in American politics; I'm afraid I would break down and cry with the sorry state of affairs it has become.

So you aren't being partisan with this post? Sounds like it to me....Therein lies the irony I spoke about earlier.
edit on 9-11-2013 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)


Not sure the Wrabbit meant any disrespect to you.

I think it was more a shot at the true state of our Union.

We can't seem to come together on anything.

Not even something as simple as restoring our basic Liberty.

It is just very frustrating for all of us.



As long as we keep insulting each other along partisan lines, ideology, party affiliations, race, sexism, religion, and even trivial cultural differences the division in America will only get deeper. How can that be changed? Do you expect someone like Judith Martin to take on spiritual powers and with a sweep of her wand; everybody starts to make nice, nice?

It's up to the individual to determine if it's really worth the argumentative style of discourse, name calling and refusal to budge on the issues. Pride and arrogance in other words.

Rush did a fantastic job of bring us together huh?

I think we both are mature enough to realize it's going to get much, much worse. As I mentioned earlier...
Only some sort of biblical event will effect change.

That's why I chose to look at the current nasty political culture in America with humor and sarcasm. To take it seriously would send me into a state of depression that I'm not prepared to handle.

So if it's a "people like you" label I must bare; so be it!

Initally I thought that ATS could be a community that might actually try and solve problems. I was wrong!
edit on 9-11-2013 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 9 2013 @ 02:55 PM
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olaru12
As I mentioned earlier...
Only some sort of biblical event will effect change.



Or maybe a world war so destructive and evil that it will bring some humility back to the people of the free world that forgot what that freedom costs.
edit on 201311America/Chicago11pm11pmSat, 09 Nov 2013 14:55:30 -06001113 by OneManArmy because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2013 @ 03:06 PM
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reply to post by OneManArmy
 


Why does freedom have to cost anything?



posted on Nov, 9 2013 @ 03:18 PM
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AfterInfinity
reply to post by OneManArmy
 


Why does freedom have to cost anything?


Ask the tyrants that seek to control us at every opportunity.

I think the answer is because power corrupts.



posted on Nov, 9 2013 @ 03:43 PM
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reply to post by olaru12
 


I use humour in just about everything I do.

It's either laugh and do that, or reserve a room at the Hotel Happy-Place. (padded walls are the standard)



posted on Nov, 9 2013 @ 04:30 PM
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reply to post by whyamIhere
 


i gave this some thought too. what would the pols do if they held an election an NOBODY showed up?
turn out theee lightss the partieeess overrrr.....hehe



posted on Nov, 9 2013 @ 07:12 PM
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whyamIhere

olaru12
reply to post by whyamIhere
 





Are You Willing to be Non-Partisan ? What is Your Liberty Worth ?


What delicious irony; a thread about forsaking partisanship breaks down into fingerpointing and partisanship in 3 pages..........


That made me laugh.

Really, only AS is the one afraid to open his curtains.

He just keeps telling himself it's going to be alright.

When you have never learned to love "Liberty"....You probably never had it.


I'm being a realist...and one of the only ones in this thread that is being honest.

If you want to take a pledge to be non-partisan...do you know what that means???? That means that you neither criticize the Democrats or the Republicans...you simply keep your mouth shut about the two major parties. It doesn't mean to criticize both of them, because in a FPTP system...when you criticize one of the two major parties you are by default endorsing the other party from other people's perspective.

I don't have this problem, I'm firmly Democrat. I don't agree on 100% of the issues with the Democrats, but I agree with them more than any other party out there, including third parties. So I really don't care about being partisan, that suits me just fine in this FPTP system because I do actually support one of the two main parties.

What I'm trying to tell you is that if you DON'T support one of the two main parties, then the only way to be non-partisan in the FPTP system is to only endorse your third party and never ever criticize either of the two big parties.

I don't think you are willing to do that, I don't think anyone in this thread is willing to do that...so that is why your entire premise is just a bad idea.



posted on Nov, 9 2013 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee
 



People like me?

You mean people that have said..

I vote for a black man this presidential election..
I vote for a woman this election..
I vote for a Catholic..
I vote for a Atheist..
I vote Green..

Progress happens whether others stand in the way or not.


No, I mean people like you...people who think they are going to be the ones that bring in a third party into the system.

Your vision of progress is just not going to happen...the best you can hope for is a change in one of the two big parties, for example the Republican Party being replaced with a newly formed "Tea Party" or being replaced by the Libertarian Party...but it will always be a two party system no matter who the players are.



posted on Nov, 9 2013 @ 07:19 PM
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AlienScience
It doesn't mean to criticize both of them, because in a FPTP system...when you criticize one of the two major parties you are by default endorsing the other party from other people's perspective.


What are you talking about?

There are not only two solutions to any problem. By criticizing one you are certainly not endorsing the other side "by default". They are merely two sides to the same coin, but there are many other coins.

Framing everything into a two sided argument that isnt even truly 2 sided is dumb.
When both sides support the corporations, who is supporting you?

WAKE UP.



posted on Nov, 9 2013 @ 07:23 PM
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I voted for a third-party candidate in the last presidential election, and I have vowed to vote only for third-party candidates from here on out. If we keep buying into the idea that voting 3rd party is a "wasted vote", we will never pull ourselves out of the mess we're in. Both major parties have been hopelessly corrupted. We need to ditch the entire system and start over again. Do I have any ideas whatsoever on how to do that? No. I'm too politically disengaged to have any concept of how to fix the system. The whole thing is so exhausting and depressing I can't contemplate it for very long. I'm just performing my own small act of insignificant rebellion against the system. Gah! I said I wouldn't post in the political forums, and now here I am. Oh, well.



posted on Nov, 9 2013 @ 10:33 PM
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reply to post by OneManArmy
 



What are you talking about?

There are not only two solutions to any problem. By criticizing one you are certainly not endorsing the other side "by default". They are merely two sides to the same coin, but there are many other coins.

Framing everything into a two sided argument that isnt even truly 2 sided is dumb.
When both sides support the corporations, who is supporting you?

WAKE UP.


LOL...I'm awake...are you?

You seem to have zero clue about what a FPTP system does...if you knew, you would understand what I said.



posted on Nov, 9 2013 @ 10:36 PM
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reply to post by Rhoswen
 



I'm just performing my own small act of insignificant rebellion against the system.


And you are actually only helping the side that you disagree with most.

Voting Third Party isn't a wasted vote...one of the two big parties thanks you very much for that vote. If you vote Libertarian, you are effectively a Democrat supporter...if you are voting Green Party, you are effectively a Republican supporter.

Yes, it seems backwards unless you understand the FPTP system.



posted on Nov, 9 2013 @ 11:52 PM
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reply to post by AlienScience
 


So essentially what you are saying is America screwed.

Neither party has the interests of the people at heart. Politicians make choices based on maintaining their power, on their political career, on whatever their corporate sponsors want.

and based on your posts in this thread, your premise is too bad so sad the two parties have everything locked up, might as well just go along with it......I despise both parties and the hard core shills who support them.
edit on 9-11-2013 by MidnightTide because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 10 2013 @ 12:30 AM
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olaru12
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


I really don't think I deserved the snarky comments, but if you can dish them out I'm prepared to take them.


I'm sincerely sorry if you took the reply to be snarky, and certainly if it was taken personally. I debate issues, not people, and that is only different when I add someone's name to the open of my reply. That's rare and never attacking or vicious in nature when I do. Again, My bad entirely if this led to misunderstanding.


If I can't find amusement in American politics; I'm afraid I would break down and cry with the sorry state of affairs it has become.


Fair enough.... Many of us are to the point of laughing or crying.


So you aren't being partisan with this post? Sounds like it to me " that segment of society"....Therein lies the irony I spoke about earlier.


In the spirit of the context of my reply, no. I am absolutely not being partisan on any level, in any way. "That Segment" as it's highlighted here, is referring to the partisans on both sides. For the record, as I've said many times since the start of 2013, I really have no more use for Republicans who are Republican first and American second...than I do Democrats who have a similar but politically opposite position. Either side focused on 'side' first does more damage to this nation at this stage than any enemy in Afghanistan, Russia or Saudi Arabia.


edit on 10-11-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: minor correction



posted on Nov, 10 2013 @ 12:37 AM
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reply to post by whyamIhere
 


I swore off the Jackass and the Pachyderm a few years ago, and so far I've stuck to it. I nearly broke that off to vote for Ron Paul, but the damn Republicans ruined that.

I will only vote third party until one of those two prove to me that they deserve my vote. I don't see that happening in the foreseeable future though.



posted on Nov, 10 2013 @ 06:13 AM
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S&F.

I'll probably be watching the collapse or civil war on BBC unless it happens this year, but I 100% agree, and voted Gary Johnson last time out to the polls.

I've seen the evil of the 2party system for quite some time now.



posted on Nov, 10 2013 @ 09:18 AM
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MidnightTide
reply to post by AlienScience
 


So essentially what you are saying is America screwed.

Neither party has the interests of the people at heart. Politicians make choices based on maintaining their power, on their political career, on whatever their corporate sponsors want.

and based on your posts in this thread, your premise is too bad so sad the two parties have everything locked up, might as well just go along with it......I despise both parties and the hard core shills who support them.
edit on 9-11-2013 by MidnightTide because: (no reason given)


Well I don't think America is screwed, because like I said I am fine with the current two party system because I actually support the Democrats...I don't just support them because my other choice has no chance nor do I support them because I dislike the Republicans more than the Democrats...I actually support the Democrats. I don't agree with them on every single issue...but I would be naïve to think I would find any political party that I do agree 100% with.

Now I'm sure people who think the "two party system" is evil think America is screwed...but that is just because they don't understand the system and are going about trying to change it in the wrong way. If you think that voting for a third party is the way to go...you just don't understand the system.

Based on my posts, you should have got that my premise is that the two party system is the natural state of a FPTP election system...and to be mad that we have a two party system is stupid because your anger is misdirected. And to brag about supporting a "third party" in our FPTP system just shows how little those people know about the system.

You go ahead and support your third party...and I'm telling you all you are doing is supporting one of the two big parties without even knowing it.



posted on Nov, 10 2013 @ 09:33 AM
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reply to post by AlienScience
 


Oh please what a load of crap you are trying to sell. You should work on your condescending tone of your sales pitch. I, and many others on ATS, understand how things work....and it is rotten to its core. I do not call for voting for a third party, they won't be allowed to play the game of politic. Any viable movement against the status quo will be subverted by the Republican and Democratic Parties.

The time for voting for change is over.



posted on Nov, 10 2013 @ 09:42 AM
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BrianFlanders
I am 80% non-partisan. But the left is still worse. Why? Not because they're any different than the right or because they aren't all in it together behind closed doors.

The 20% is because the left has a fan club filled with real Kool Aid junkies and these people are serious in their dedication to statism. That deplorable characteristic that is common to pretty much all left wingers is easily exploited by statists. TPTB on the left and the right can join forces and tailor their messages for each side and still get exactly what they want. Think of it as a left hand and a right hand working together to turn a screw. They can appear to be doing different things and still achieve the same result.

However....

political parties are disposable for the people who are really pulling the strings. They have an endless supply of dirty tricks. If they need to, they'll invent a new party and you'll never know they're behind it all until it's too late (unless you're just the type who doesn't trust anyone).

It doesn't matter whether or not you're partisan. These people own us and there's nothing we can do about it.


Right here is the problem, someone considers themselves mostly non-partisan, and immediately breaks into a left/right paradigm, and says one side is better than the other. Many people simply do not understand the definition of partisanship.



posted on Nov, 10 2013 @ 10:01 AM
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MidnightTide
reply to post by AlienScience
 


Oh please what a load of crap you are trying to sell. You should work on your condescending tone of your sales pitch. I, and many others on ATS, understand how things work....and it is rotten to its core. I do not call for voting for a third party, they won't be allowed to play the game of politic. Any viable movement against the status quo will be subverted by the Republican and Democratic Parties.

The time for voting for change is over.


Ok...so what is your "solution"?

You don't like the two parties, you said you will never vote for them, and now you are saying you aren't going to vote third party because you know it is pointless.

So what are you going to do besides complain on the internet?






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