Are You Willing to be Non-Partisan ? What is Your Liberty Worth ?

AlienScience

beezzer
I wonder how the American Revolution would have gone if it were fought today.

"I'd help that Paul Revere guy out but didn't I see him at an OWS protest last year?"

"I'd fight with you, General Washington, but you're anti-abortion, so. . . sorry."

"Fight along side of Ben Franklin? Isn't he a Tea Partier?"

You don't think it wasn't like that?

LOL...those are some rose colored glasses you are wearing there.

Sad. Defending the status quo must be onerous. And even IF people has differences of opinion, they came together. They ignored the petty differences and fought back.

So history tells a different tale than the one you're trying to spin.

reply to post by AlienScience

I'm sorry, but I just have to laugh at the naivety of your post. Your big solution to changing the two party system is to "HONOR the Constitution"...tell me...exactly how does that eliminate the two party system?

I think he is right. "Honor the Constitution".

You simply can't choose the parts you like.

You are so quick to bash sincere ideas.

What would you do? Sounds like you are content to spread your butt-cheeks.

How about enlightening us with your Republic saving ideas.

beezzer

AlienScience

beezzer
I wonder how the American Revolution would have gone if it were fought today.

"I'd help that Paul Revere guy out but didn't I see him at an OWS protest last year?"

"I'd fight with you, General Washington, but you're anti-abortion, so. . . sorry."

"Fight along side of Ben Franklin? Isn't he a Tea Partier?"

You don't think it wasn't like that?

LOL...those are some rose colored glasses you are wearing there.

Sad. Defending the status quo must be onerous. And even IF people has differences of opinion, they came together. They ignored the petty differences and fought back.

So history tells a different tale than the one you're trying to spin.

History tells that less than half of the colonist outright supported the Revolution. Some outright opposed it and fought with the British and some just didn't get involved at all.

Romanticizing history doesn't change the facts.

reply to post by whyamIhere


No worries OP! Alien might want to call me Naïve, but I can at least live with myself knowing I am not bought and paid for. That I still have a mind of my own so that I can cry foul versus being part of the status quo. Power means nothing to me! If Alien wants to refer to me as a pawn, then by God I am a pawn. At least I can die knowing that I loved my country and was not instrumental in helping to destroy it! What is really sad, is that those like Alien that want to refer to themselves as Knights, will find themselves feeling way worse than us pawns when this charade of Democracy finally plays itself out.....

Your post speaks for itself when you can draw out those whom voluntarily show their true colors and how far they are willing to go to destroy their own country!

What gets me is that Alien showed how the system was wrong, but is still willing to support it! Power trip?

reply to post by whyamIhere

I think he is right. "Honor the Constitution".

You simply can't choose the parts you like.

You are so quick to bash sincere ideas.

It is empty rhetoric, it has absolutely no meaning behind it. What is he going to do to "honor" the Constitution...and how is that going to change anything? Will he try to push HIS opinion of what the Constitution is and stands for onto other people that disagree with him?

What would you do? Sounds like you are content to spread your butt-cheeks.

How about enlightening us with your Republic saving ideas.

I'm not the one complaining...am I?

The Republic isn't dying...the demographics and ideology are shifting...and to some people they see that as "dying". The Republic will continue on...but it will continue on and evolve and progress...not stay stagnant and die.


But I still haven't heard how "honoring the Constitution" is going to change the two party system...please detail it for me.

I already do this and have already made this pledge. We need more people like us though.

reply to post by AlienScience

It is empty rhetoric, it has absolutely no meaning behind it. What is he going to do to "honor" the Constitution...and how is that going to change anything? Will he try to push HIS opinion of what the Constitution is and stands for onto other people that disagree with him?

That statement alone is enough to show you have no intention of solving our problems, but contributing to them! As far as saying I don't support those whom I don't agree with?????? You don't know me!!! I will stand up for anyones Constitutional rights whether I agree with them or not!!! Freedom means much more than your partisan brain can even fathom handling.......

reply to post by AlienScience

The Republic isn't dying...the demographics and ideology are shifting...and to some people they see that as "dying". The Republic will continue on...but it will continue on and evolve and progress...not stay stagnant and die.

You are willing to let the Government monitor your communications?

You are willing to let the Government control your Healthcare decisions?

Are you calling a complete nanny state evolution and progress?

Demographics do not have a damn thing to do with my Constitutional Rights.

Honestly bro, you are not sitting there saying our Government's actions are progress.

AlienScience
reply to post by whyamIhere

 

Will you take a pledge to outright reject both parties until our Liberty is restored ?

Quite simply...no...no I will not.

And neither will anyone else. Sure, you have people in here claiming they will and that they have not been part of the "two party system" for a long time.

But the fact is that they are still as partisan as any Democrat or Republican and any political remarks they make either benefit or hurt the Democrats or Republicans. I don't care if they call themselves "Libertarian" or "Green Party" or "Independent"...whenever they state their opinion it doesn't benefit their third party or independent view...it only adds to the two party rhetoric.

The two party system exists because it is the natural state of the FPTP (first past the post/winner take all) election system. The reason we will not get out of the two party system is because most people don't even realize that this is the issue. They just think that they can change the two party system by trying to create a "third party"...and it just won't work. The only way to change the two party system is to change the FPTP election system to MMP (Mixed Member Proportional) or PR (Proportional Representation)...but not one single person in these threads are talking about them....in fact I would bet most of you "third party" advocates have just learned a few new phrases because you've never even heard of FPTP, MMP and PR. The fact that the people screaming the loudest for wanting to change the two party system are advocating a third party as a way to do this just shows how clueless they are and why we are no where near changing the two party system.

Here is the thing...the buzz around a "third party" is an essential part of the two party system. You aren't being a rebel, you aren't being an independent thinker, you are being a pawn as long as we have a FPTP system. Because the biggest supporters of the Libertarian party are the Democrats and the biggest supporters of the Green party are the Republicans...I'll leave it to you to figure out why.

That is why I will take no pledge. The game in town is the two party system...doesn't matter if you say you will "never vote for one of the two parties"...you are still an integral part of the two party system and are relied upon to think the way you do. So why be a pawn when you can be a knight and actually be part of the game?

I will -never- vote for the Democrats or Republicans.

The Republicans can't count my vote for a Green Candidate as a vote away from the Democrats, because if there wasn't a Green Candidate, I would have voted independent, or Reform, or People's Comminust, or some other party.

I do this not because it will make a difference this election, but because it will make a difference eventually.

seeker1963
reply to post by AlienScience

 

That is why I will take no pledge. The game in town is the two party system...doesn't matter if you say you will "never vote for one of the two parties"...you are still an integral part of the two party system and are relied upon to think the way you do. So why be a pawn when you can be a knight and actually be part of the game?

So in other words, you would rather continue to participate in a known corrupt system, rather than do something to change it, to where it would be fair to everyone whom participates???

And just what does that mean? Just asking.

reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee

I do this not because it will make a difference this election, but because it will make a difference eventually.

No, it really won't.

People like you have been saying this forever. The only people that think this just simply don't understand how FPTP works long term.

reply to post by whyamIhere

Are You Willing to be Non-Partisan ? What is Your Liberty Worth ?

What delicious irony; a thread about forsaking partisanship breaks down into fingerpointing and partisanship in 3 pages..........

olaru12:

What delicious irony; a thread about forsaking partisanship breaks down into fingerpointing and partisanship in 3 pages...

Damn! That was a quick revolution! Did anyone actually make it out the door onto the street?

You can have whatever societal system you want, all you need to do is gain the larger consensus, and then by that so-called democratic process, you can change things.

Truth is, the only way you are going to change the current societal system is through civil war, and you know that is never going to happen. It is going to take that kind of cost. I know others would suggest that it could be done peacefully, but no it couldn't, you will not get the required amount of people to act peacefully in civil disobedience across the nation in sync and in concert with each other. Even if by some remarkable take up of the idea, all they would achieve is to be ignored, and at best, maybe gain a few token political gestures, which will not in any way be worth the suffering.

You need to develop an ideology that will both inspire and motivate, but as far as I can see, Western societies are too fractured and fault lined along cracks of racial, sexual, religious and political viewpoints. Most people just want to keep their head down and ignore what's going on around them. They want a quiet and uninterrupted life. Only people struggling to survive daily are motivated enough to want to change things, and they are the minority.

The only 'change' to society you are going to get, is that which is decreed by the controllers. It is their society based on their vision, their benefit.

You know what, I am already non-partisan. I cannot stand either the extremist conservatives or the extremist liberals that have started rearing their ugly faces -

The extremist conservatives are angry, hostile people who hate anyone who is different from them, claim to be Christians but have lost the way - instead of being positive forces in their community, they are positively hostile and judgmental and spend their time harming others, using Hispanics for slave labor, being racist against blacks, destroying the lives of homosexuals and so much more evil things that I am entirely disappointed in their lack of faith in God.

The extremist liberals, on the other hand, are complete idiots. They know nothing about how to balance being crazy and having a good time with values that lead to a healthy life experience. In fact, they will stubbornly continue to have a good time all the way to the torture chamber, where their party will continue even under duress.

Forgoing religion completely, these insane people have decided to judge each other based on how educated they are or how good they are at certain things - to the point where something like gaming is not fun anymore because it can get too stressful! The same with being politically correct! There is no point in it anymore because it causes people to be nervous about what they are allowed to say or not instead of bringing people closer together because it is being taken to infinite extremes and the expectations are simply not possible to follow! That causes stress!

Radical liberals have become Social Darwinists, and this is a very painful culture to experience, because the honest truth is that there is NOT an end to how intelligent someone is - if you have to keep on improving yourself in order to feel accepted, to the point of infinity, you are going to end up dead! From stress! Before you ever get to relax!

-----

So no! Hell no to traditional party alignments, hell no, absolutely hell no. We need to have some basic standards in our society that we can use to feel accepted, but at the same time, not be afraid or judged if we go above and beyond the call of duty -

This is something that conservatives are currently hostile towards, which is progress! For God's sake! Progress is good in the eyes of God!

-----

Sure, I'll take your oath. I'm a moderate.

olaru12
reply to post by whyamIhere

 

Are You Willing to be Non-Partisan ? What is Your Liberty Worth ?

What delicious irony; a thread about forsaking partisanship breaks down into fingerpointing and partisanship in 3 pages..........

That made me laugh.

Really, only AS is the one afraid to open his curtains.

He just keeps telling himself it's going to be alright.

When you have never learned to love "Liberty"....You probably never had it.

I am 80% non-partisan. But the left is still worse. Why? Not because they're any different than the right or because they aren't all in it together behind closed doors.

The 20% is because the left has a fan club filled with real Kool Aid junkies and these people are serious in their dedication to statism. That deplorable characteristic that is common to pretty much all left wingers is easily exploited by statists. TPTB on the left and the right can join forces and tailor their messages for each side and still get exactly what they want. Think of it as a left hand and a right hand working together to turn a screw. They can appear to be doing different things and still achieve the same result.

However....

political parties are disposable for the people who are really pulling the strings. They have an endless supply of dirty tricks. If they need to, they'll invent a new party and you'll never know they're behind it all until it's too late (unless you're just the type who doesn't trust anyone).

It doesn't matter whether or not you're partisan. These people own us and there's nothing we can do about it.

AlienScience
reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee

 

I do this not because it will make a difference this election, but because it will make a difference eventually.

No, it really won't.

People like you have been saying this forever. The only people that think this just simply don't understand how FPTP works long term.

People like me?

You mean people that have said..

I vote for a black man this presidential election..
I vote for a woman this election..
I vote for a Catholic..
I vote for a Atheist..
I vote Green..

Progress happens whether others stand in the way or not.

olaru12
reply to post by whyamIhere

 

Are You Willing to be Non-Partisan ? What is Your Liberty Worth ?

What delicious irony; a thread about forsaking partisanship breaks down into fingerpointing and partisanship in 3 pages..........

I'm afraid I don't see anything amusing or entertaining about it. That's personal opinion, not professional, of course.

When partisanship is what our nation is, ultimately, failing from? The amusement from it seems akin to finding something entertaining in a car crash. Oh..some do ...but then, it does take all kinds to make the world go around.

I'd just be thrilled if the ultra-partisans did what they keep promising and not vote. Unfortunately, the numbers seem to consistently show that segment of society IS who votes early and far too much....often, as well.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I really don't think I deserved the snarky comments, but if you can dish them out I'm prepared to take them.

If I can't find amusement in American politics; I'm afraid I would break down and cry with the sorry state of affairs it has become.

So you aren't being partisan with this post? Sounds like it to me " that segment of society"....Therein lies the irony I spoke about earlier.


But it's "people like me" right?

olaru12
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

I really don't think I deserved the snarky comments, but if you can dish them out I'm prepared to take them.

If I can't find amusement in American politics; I'm afraid I would break down and cry with the sorry state of affairs it has become.

So you aren't being partisan with this post? Sounds like it to me....Therein lies the irony I spoke about earlier.

edit on 9-11-2013 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)

Not sure the Wrabbit meant any disrespect to you.

I think it was more a shot at the true state of our Union.

We can't seem to come together on anything.

Not even something as simple as restoring our basic Liberty.

It is just very frustrating for all of us.