The Flood Controversy

reply to post by OneFreeMan


The moon is mentioned right in Genesis 1. Sorry, that's a no go.

Gen 1:16-18 NASB
16 God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also. 17 God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good.

AHerald
reply to post by OneFreeMan

 

The moon is mentioned right in Genesis 1. Sorry, that's a no go.

Gen 1:16-18 NASB
16 God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also. 17 God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good.

Ah ok. Thanks AH. I am sure I heard that in the archaeological records the moon
suddenly appears in ancient art forms (cave paintings etc.) as if it arrived almost overnight.
There was a before moon and after moon division.
I am still serious though about the moon we see now being a projection.

reply to post by drivers1492

Text
Thats very possible. I enjoyed your view of the dual nature which makes sense using the information we have. Although most would say there are 3. Might I pose another possibility. Could it be that it inadvertently refers to a pantheon/polytheistic stance of controlling powers that we know existed in very early history in that time? Even excluding archeological evidence the bible itself makes it clear that it wasn't uncommon. Throughout the ot there is plural references to the biblical god as well as singular which again I find odd. It would seem that one would want to be consistent when wanting to relay a message considered holy. But that is purely my opinion of course.
-----------

Yes driver, I see your perspective and agree with your take on the polytheistic aspect. There is strong evidence as to what you say in that before the monotheistic philosophy was accepted by the Hebrews, they were engrossed with many gods and a collective society.

I would suspect that even Moses, of Egyptian royalty, at one time believed in polytheism. In reading Jewish Anthology (MeAm Loez) the Hebrews were just coming out of the polytheistic belief which they had embraced as Egyptian guests through the revelations of Moses. It did not happen overnight as many Hebrews had intermixed with the Egyptians and some chose to stay with the Egyptian gods.

When I read Torah I am somewhat convinced that there were many scribes that compiled the books of Moses. Not saying that Moses was not the author but only that Moses could have had help in assorting the information in the order as we see it today. My belief is that the collections of traditions from the twelve tribes were a tremendous undertaking and required more than one man. No typewriters or computers or dictaphone's of any sort nor methods of correction were readily available. It had to be a tremendous undertaking.

Christianity has many faces today and may not even resemble the first century church of the Apostles. The liturgy of the first christian church was entirely Hebrew and Aramaic and the Hellenistic Greeks had no authority in this first Christian Jewish synagogue. The understanding of a triune god was introduced as an extension of the celestial God of which Jesus was the begotten Son. There are many different doctrines which have come from this thought but the Apostles never really delved into this matter very deeply.

There are some who insist on a trinity while others deny that there can be two Holy Spirits. God is the total Holy Spirit and is the entire life source of all that exists both visible and invisible. If there is another entity that claims to be The Holy Ghost then that would be unthinkable to some Christians. The image of God is seen as feasible but to have two Holy Spirits seems illogical to many. How can we have two life sources? That would be related to polytheism would it not? And so the rift remains in the Christian circles. Thanks drivers for that thought.

reply to post by LABTECH767


True, and controlled evolution, or Creative Evolution, as I like to call it has always been a fascinating concept to me. As well, I can fully subscribe to the idea of aliens manufacturing incidents in the world to assist in the evolution process.

To me, this sounds like so many aspects of those that people call the Annunaki. (sp)

I believe we're on the eve of a great realization that we're not alone, and that some of those biblical events that have shaped humanity will soon be revealed as manipulations to justify the needed connections between the earthbound, and those that travel among the stars.

NOTE: Your response indicates such a grasp on a great philosophy that inspires me.

OneFreeMan
Can anyone answer me this; when was the moon first made mention of in the bible?
I suspect that the biblical flood may have been caused by the moon suddenly appearing
on the scene. I also suspect (strange as it may sound) that the moon we now see
is a projection and the original moon has gone on it's merry way.

Thanks.

K Ill try ... LOL

The Moon in the conspiracy realm has said that the moon is not the Orignal its a replacement it went bye bye the we see now Moon is in the right place for a solar eclipse, right place to keep life on this planet , keeping the flow ( tidal waves ) more less acting as a buffer.. ( The Great Flood could be the transfer of this moon from the old one who knows ) by a Civilization type 3 ? GOD!!>> ? its a Way out Theory.. or The Moon Somehow Got Closer... Causing the Flood... my Guess .. Slowing Down or Speeding up the Earth ... ?? IDK but This Event is around the World From the OLD and NEW World ! ... of Legends

Well We can Guess All Day... as to Why Our Moon is the Way it is Ironically Larger then Any Other Moon from the Size of a Planet that has Moons in Our Solar System tho Jupiter Saturn has Moons close to Our size of Our Moon... but nothing comparison to having Close to Quarter the Mass of Our Planet as Our Moon does

creationwiki.org...

reply to post by Divine Strake


I actually do not see any conflict with the extra terrestrial theory and religon, the definition of the term angel is Messenger and anything can be an angel from a heavenly being (or alien for that matter as well), a sign you see on a truck driving past or somebody telling you something, I do however also believe the the spirit (but I do not attempt to define it as any theory I can produce would be woefully inadequate) and I believe in christianity and the god of the universe (in part because of my western cultural traits but also because I have as have members of my family experiences that I will not go into here and are not pertinent to this thread), can I truly define god though - not at all, but I think as we see ourselves if there are alien beings out there then we must accept them as our brothers as well.

reply to post by Wolfenz


You are correct about the moon in relation to our time frame, we exist with an almost perfectly circular orbiting body that is just the right size and distance to allow it to perfectly eclipse the sun and not blot it out or be a small shadow passing in front of it, it stabilises our planets rotation around its axis like the disc on a spinnin whell and without that axis would tilt 45 degrees according to some and 90 according to others wobbling back and forth freezing and baking the planet (if the earth is a planet and not a giant living being that may actually be growing slowly - another thread comment), it regulates the female menstrual cycle and drives the tides, to a lesser degree impacts vulcanism and is a necessary element in driving the carbon cycle of earth.

So is it too perfectly callibrated to be simple called a chance happening, in a solar system around a planet in the goldilocks zone with liquid water and an atmosphere, a electromagnetic shell that shelters the surface from the worst radiation and is also powered by an interaction between the moon and planatery core, with life, with intelligent life that can see this amazing callibrated structure.
Or is it a marker that we as yet still do not comprehend, perhaps of a massively advanced race or of God.

One coincidence may be chance but so very many combined, well lets leave that up to the others to dismiss or discuss as is calls to there whims.

LABTECH767
reply to post by Wolfenz

 

You are correct about the moon in relation to our time frame, we exist with an almost perfectly circular orbiting body that is just the right size and distance to allow it to perfectly eclipse the sun and not blot it out or be a small shadow passing in front of it, it stabilises our planets rotation around its axis like the disc on a spinnin whell and without that axis would tilt 45 degrees according to some and 90 according to others wobbling back and forth freezing and baking the planet (if the earth is a planet and not a giant living being that may actually be growing slowly - another thread comment), it regulates the female menstrual cycle and drives the tides, to a lesser degree impacts vulcanism and is a necessary element in driving the carbon cycle of earth.

So is it too perfectly callibrated to be simple called a chance happening, in a solar system around a planet in the goldilocks zone with liquid water and an atmosphere, a electromagnetic shell that shelters the surface from the worst radiation and is also powered by an interaction between the moon and planatery core, with life, with intelligent life that can see this amazing callibrated structure.
Or is it a marker that we as yet still do not comprehend, perhaps of a massively advanced race or of God.

One coincidence may be chance but so very many combined, well lets leave that up to the others to dismiss or discuss as is calls to there whims.

edit on 12-11-2013 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)

it stabilises our planets rotation around its axis like the disc on a spinnin whell and without that axis would tilt 45 degrees according to some and 90 according to others wobbling back and forth freezing and baking the planet (

This is what I Call A Buffer.. Regulating Cycling The Planet ...

(if the earth is a planet and not a giant living being that may actually be growing slowly - another thread comment),

The Expanding Earth Theroy is Pretty Much Im on the Fence On and Makes Perfect Sense ...

So is it too perfectly callibrated to be simple called a chance happening, in a solar system around a planet in the goldilocks zone with liquid water and an atmosphere, a electromagnetic shell that shelters the surface from the worst radiation and is also powered by an interaction between the moon and planatery core, with life, with intelligent life that can see this amazing callibrated structure.
Or is it a marker that we as yet still do not comprehend, perhaps of a massively advanced race or of God.

Exactly My thought... Living inside the Bubble of Protection as The Cycle of Life of Weather of Water Rise of Vapor to Down Fall Rain.. a Perfect Regulating System.. from the Right place right Distance of the Goldilocks Zone... as this Moon and Core going hand and Hand . of our planet keeps the Motion Going..

The Disruption From the Flood ... was as the Bible Tells to Wash out the Imperfection or to Say to Perfect... Humans Tainted with another aka Fallen Angels.. claimed in the Hebrew Christian Bible

Nephilim
en.wikipedia.org...

Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. Then the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years." The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow"> scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net...

so many interesting posts!
ah this is the good stuff i like about ats.

Ismail
reply to post by All Seeing Eye

 

So you actually believe that all those guys lived for 900 years and such ?

As you said, he bible is flawed. I'd like to add that by no account is history either.

I wanted to highlight this comment. Simply because something sounds outlandish or implausible to YOU, doesn't mean it's not possible.

The Cartoon show "Archer" was talking about ISIS as thier super computer that could find anything based on "impossible consipracy theory" now, we know it was certinaly not impossible.

Here is a link to a creationist webpage that has collected data on several ancient kingdoms records stating lifespans of rulers.

Ancient Kings and their lifespans

Don't bother attacking the "creationist" nature of the site, Im not advocating thier "spin" on the information. It does not change that the information collected is original, documented records from ancient texts. They show a loose correlation to the claimed lifespans and dynasty lengths from India, China, Egypt, and the bible.

It is curious that these records all seem to agree. To just dismiss it as preposterous shows a real lack of respect for evidence.

reply to post by vind21


Aging has a number of distinct causes, one is a simple genetic clock that allows the cell to undergoe mitosis only so many times and this decrements with each cellular split. (A simple genetic virus could have theoretically reduced the number of times the cells in humans undergo mitosis)
Another is the build up of too many oxidised proteins within the cell's over time and during mitosis this may both slows the speed of mitosis and reduce the effective life span of the cell itself so as we get older the speed of cell death overtakes the rate of mitosis and the body no longer produces enough new cells to keep up.
Another is selective breeding, a slow breeding race of very long lived peaceful people versus a fast maturing immature violent race of people whom would soon swamp them in there numbers as well as potentially dilute any of there genes that survived to the point were they were no longer viable.

There are many of these ancient kings such as in persia whom were also very tall as well as long lived and notable is the fact that they were reported to have six or seven fingers, they tended to inbreed to try to keep there blood lines pure and it may be that they were actually a less infected strain of humanity were we may be a race whom have gained a lot of animal genetic material through the homogenisation of our genetics by absorbing through viral bourn material transmigration of genetic material those specific traits,.

Hypothetically if we consider the concept of other species hybridisation maybe a soldier cast and the hive failed as it can procreate without the hive structure, wild rapidly breeding (to a long lived perspective) soldier cast or worker cast (man was made to work).
Maybe the alien hybridisation theory will come back into play here somewhere.

In order to be healthy your cells need to die, or under go apoptosis, if the cells lack iodine the principal requirement for apoptosis they do not die, they simply degrade until a malignancy is created, also known as cancer.

Recently the term 'junk dna' has been debunked and we now know that alot of that dna has purpose. We also have a gene referred to as FOXP2. This gene is one of the most conserved pieces of information in the human dna structure and it is what we use to tell the difference between different hominid species.

The FOXP2 is like the "golden needle" in the dna hay stack and it allows you to positively identify the species if it is contained in a DNA sample.

The US govt and related edu's have invested LARGE amounts of time and money identifying FOXP2's from EVERY species on this planet.


Any "alien" DNA would be immediately recognized as alien on this piece is found. There are only 3 active cases for unknown FOXP2 gene's, and only 2 are accepted as verified.

1. The 'star child' a purported alien human hybrid, 2 independent labs have confirmed "unknown" foxp2 samples from the skull, however, due to the obvious controversial nature and that previous labs have claimed nothing found this one is still under investigation.

2. A hair sample recently found in the Himalayas of a supposed yeti and/or extinct bear etc. I FOXP2 was identified in the sample of unknown origin. All this means is that we have a hair sample from an unknown species, the 'yeti' hypothesis is still controversial obviously.

3. A 'hoof' bone from mexico, again an interest for cryptozoo kids, contained an unknown FOXP2.


I don't really know of any other enduring unknown FOXP2's they are ussualy identified pretty fast. This does not mean they are not out there, it costs around 250K to have a DNA sample properly analyzed.



All that being said, any 'hybrid' alien/human that was capable of reproducing would have an altered FOXP2 and would be identifiable as a unique species.


I don't know of any conclusive evidence that would suggest certain human subgroups (Asians, Latino, etc etc) have differing potential life spans. This, to me, says that humans being human/alien hybrids with increased lifespans as explination for the age issue is unlikely.

There is anecdotal evidence of being able to increase our life spans: io9

And unconfirmed research from Baugh Chamber where simulated atmosphere's prolonged life in certain species and increase their size. While documented, these studies have not been duplicated.

I would much favor the exploration of differing atmospheric conditions effecting life spans, than aliens.

Interestingly the new trailer for the movie "NOAH" that is coming out, shows what we have been
talking about, massive amounts of water coming out of the ground.

Blue_Jay33
Interestingly the new trailer for the movie "NOAH" that is coming out, shows what we have been
talking about, massive amounts of water coming out of the ground.

edit on 14-11-2013 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)

The Possible Reason ...???

Antediluvian

There were no clouds or rain. Instead, the Earth was watered by mists which rose from the Earth. (Another interpretation is that the Earth was covered completely by a global cloud layer; the upper waters mentioned in the Creation. This is commonly called the Canopy view)

en.wikipedia.org...

How is it possible to analyze an ancient fable? And use the bible as your reference document? It's a lose-lose proposition.

The flood controversy? What is the controversy? Why is there a need to reverse-engineer ancient stories and make them fit into some modern perspectives?

reply to post by undo


From reading Gilgamesh and other Sumerian and Babylonian lore, I have come to the conclusion, that if Eden existed, it was cituated at what is now the bottom of the Black Sea, and that the Flood was what created the Black (and Caspian) Sea(s). I believe that it is the 'Sea of Death', and that the 'Plant of Life' Gilgamesh retrieves from the bottom of the 'Sea of Death' is the very Tree that stood in the middle of Eden. That gave us eternal life.