It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Why Won’t the West Defend Middle Eastern Christians?

page: 1
4
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 09:40 AM
link   
Why Won’t the West Defend Middle Eastern Christians?

Read more: www.themuslimtimes.org...

Why has the suffering of the Middle Eastern Christian communities not ignited outrage and support from Western Christians? The answer has something to do with Israel and the Second Coming, writes Professor Diarmaid MacCulloch

In the autumn of 2008, I was in Syria shooting a BBC TV series A History of Christianity. It’s painful to look back on that happy time, to think of the warm reception we had and wonder what has happened to all those people now. One moment I remember especially: my interview with His Holiness Moran Mor Ignatius Zakka I Iwas, Syriac Orthodox Patriarch of Antioch and All the East, at his Church’s fine new seminary buildings in the hills outside Damascus.

Before he would say anything else, the venerable Patriarch fixed me with a stern stare and told me to tell all Western Christians of the desperate plight which now faced the Christians of the Middle East. And that was when Syria was still one of the few countries in the Middle East where Christian Churches were strong and respected communities, taking their full part in national life. Elsewhere, things were desperate; and now they are in Syria too: Christians are scapegoated for their faith by an extremist militant minority of Muslims, who betray their own religion by intolerance, and who make other Muslims ashamed of what is happening.


True. And the behavior of zealous Evangelicals makes Christians who actually 'get' Christ's message ashamed, too. It goes both ways.


The problem is a Protestant one, going right back to sixteenth-century Reformation.

From Martin Luther onwards, many Protestants have eagerly been awaiting an imminent end to the world, the return of Christ in glory.

Reading the Bible, it’s easy to link this to the idea that a necessary precondition for Christ to return is that his ancient people the Jews convert to the Christian faith; and so many Protestants have sought the right conditions for that to happen.


And so, they just sit back and hope it does. Pathetic.


American foreign policy has for decades seemed locked into hardly questioning its support for the State of Israel, even though the consequences for its relations with the Arab and Muslim world, and with others, are almost entirely negative.


True, again. Western 'support for Israel' is the RESULT of the Protestant End-Times-Hastening.


They have been particularly dire for the traditional Christianities of the Middle East. Christian communities were already generally in steep decline in numbers through the region, and Israel/Palestine in particular, even before the present Syrian and Egyptian crises.

Caught between the animosities of a politics which has other concerns, Arab Christians have every incentive to leave, whenever they can, for exile in less dangerous lands, ending a connection with homelands which goes directly back to the first generations of the followers of Christ. It is easy for them to feel abandoned and betrayed by the Christian-based cultures of the West.

When will this Western silence end?


When? I don't know. When will Islamist terrorism end? How about we do it at the same time....

3, 2, 1.... GO!!!







edit on 11/7/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 09:54 AM
link   
because unlike the middle east, the west isn't defined by our religions.
to be honest, we don't care. they aren't citizens of the west, its not our business.

why does op think western nations are all about Christianity? that's the great thing about us, is that we don't make decisions like this based on religion.

op go fight your holy war elsewhere.



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 10:06 AM
link   
reply to post by wildtimes
 


They are poor and don't control oil. Wait, this a trick question right?



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 10:14 AM
link   
reply to post by Bisman
 



why does op think western nations are all about Christianity? that's the great thing about us, is that we don't make decisions liake this based on religion.

op go fight your holy war elsewhere.

LOL! Nonono, you have TOTALLY misread the OP, and I am NOT fighting a 'holy war'.

I LIVE in the West, I KNOW it is secular, and I see LOTS of Apathy among CHRISTIANS towards the CHRISTIANS in the Middle East. I'm only pointing out WHY that is happening, from a non-christian point of view.

I don't care either way who believes what religious nonsense. All I care about is "The Golden Rule", and both Muslims and Christians are failing to follow it.

Fine if you 'don't care'. I do, because I believe we are responsible for this mess - WE, HUMAN BEINGS - regardless of race, creed, nationality, or culture. People who sit back and say, "it's coming! let's not DO ANYTHING about the carnage, poverty, suffering, destruction, and strife among other peoples. 'Cuz, Jeezus is coming" are NOT behaving like Christians.

I'm NOT one of them. I'm a secular agnostic, watching the fray from a distance. Don't judge the OP based on the source of the article.

"You don't care about them." Got it.



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 10:19 AM
link   
They don't worship the same god. They are the bastardized children of one religion that doesn't want to claim them all at once because that would mean revealing itself for the fallacious, flawed, foolish system it really is. Look at it from one side, the illusion is complete. Look at it from three different sides, the illusion is shattered and the decrepit embittered old man is revealed at the controls.

There's your answer.



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 10:20 AM
link   

I believe we are responsible for this mess - WE, HUMAN BEINGS - regardless of race, creed, nationality, or culture.


this is not true. the entire point of your post is how you are hung up on western Christians taking action for middle eastern Christians. or lack up.

it sounds like you have a preference. at least your article there does.



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 10:22 AM
link   

Bisman
because unlike the middle east, the west isn't defined by our religions.
to be honest, we don't care. they aren't citizens of the west, its not our business.

why does op think western nations are all about Christianity? that's the great thing about us, is that we don't make decisions like this based on religion.

op go fight your holy war elsewhere.


So ignorant. The OP isn't even Christian (or religious for that matter)... How about YOU go fight your holy war elsewhere?

To the OP: I don't think this is very accurate. There are lots of missions to the middle east. Part of the problem with Syria right now is that it is completely embroiled in violence. Even the red cross/crescent is having a difficult time getting help to the people that need it because of the violence.

To say that western Christians are leaving our middle eastern brothers and sisters to their fates because we're trying to hasten the second coming is ridiculous. Most churches do missionary work within their own congregations so you will never hear about it as they don't go boasting about it to the media. Secondly, I can't speak for anyone else but I don't believe it's even possible for people to do anything to hasten the second coming. It's not up to us.



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 10:26 AM
link   
Pope Francis has tried to 'make nice' with Muslims in that part of the world. As Cardinal, he was successful in his home country. I don't know how it'll work out with the Middle East though.

BBC Pope Francis Reaches Out To Muslims at the end of Ramadan
Washington Times - Pope Francis Reaches Out to Muslims on Good Friday
Pope Francis Reaches Out to Muslims on Eid

etc etc etc .... more stories but you get the idea.
He's trying to dialog.



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 10:28 AM
link   
reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


Mmm...I think the OP is making a mistake as well. Just because eastern religions are based in the same root source as western Christianity, doesn't make them Christians as well. It's actually very, very ironic. Those who are familiar with my thought processes know that I am very intrigued by the pyramidal nature of the Tetragrammaton. How many points does a pyramid have? 4. How many sides? 4. How many members of the Abrahamic religion tree? 4. I just realized that. Curiouser and curiouser...makes me wonder if Christianity was never the destination, but rather, an arrow pointing to the next clue.



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 10:32 AM
link   
To any who wish to stay abreast of the dire situation faced by many Christians I would recommend Voice of the Martyrs an organization founded by Richard Wurmbrand who was imprisoned and tortured for his ministry efforts in Romania.



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 11:00 AM
link   
reply to post by wildtimes
 


As I posted on another thread and will post it here..American Christians live in a bubble. They are safe and so assume others are as well.

I have read the Quran, I have read the Sunna and the Hadiths, so I know what their texts say. Not only that, I have worked with Muslims and have had many conversations on the internet and in real life with Muslims. I know how they think, I know what they say and I know what they base their religion on. But there were Christians who were bothered by the fact that I had downloaded the Quran onto my computer, so I could refer to their scripture.

I have also read the Rig Vedas, the Bahgavad Gita, the Mahabharat, the Avestas, the Popol Vuh and I even read the Satantic Bible. I want to know what they are saying before I leap to assumptions that may be wrong. I even read the Tibetan Book of the Dead, believe it or not.

Here is Sharia Law for those who are interested.



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 11:00 AM
link   
reply to post by wildtimes
 


The Vatican Insider recently had an article about the Syrian Christians which you might find interesting. For 50,000 people to be facing expulsion from their homeland is not an easy thing to bear. Don't know about the rest of you, but I am fully saturated with war, war talk, hatred and 'us versus them talk'.

Russia's “protectorate” over Middle Eastern Christians

The Kremlin is about to consider granting citizenship to about 50 thousand Syrian Christians in the region of Qualamun after they issued a collective request to Moscow’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs. In statements issued in the past few days, the spokesmen for President Putin and the Ministry confirmed that the request is being examined by the highest Russian authorities. “This is the first time since Christ’s birth that we, the Christians of Saidnaya and Maara Saidnaya, Maalula and Maarun are being threatened with expulsion from our land.”



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 11:05 AM
link   
reply to post by Bisman
 


it sounds like you have a preference. at least your article there does.

THE ARTICLE was not written by me. I stumbled across it this morning, and thought it was pertinent to ongoing religious contention among "the faithful."

MY PREFERENCE is PEACE, and end to conflict, and COMPASSION for our fellow human beings.

But, you don't care about those people. Like I said, I got it.

I'm pointing out how Western Christians are FAILING their foreign counterparts.

If you're fine with it, oh well. So those suffering abroad can cross you off the list of peacemaker or compassionate co-human.



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 11:08 AM
link   
reply to post by AfterInfinity
 



Just because eastern religions are based in the same root source as western Christianity, doesn't make them Christians as well.

What? Of course they are, if they witness and identify as "Christians." Maybe you're unaware of how many Christians there ARE abroad - it is where they got started, and many are still there, since LONG before the USA existed.

They are Christians if they hold the same beliefs that Jesus Is God that Western Christians do.

????????????????????????????



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 11:16 AM
link   
reply to post by DeadSeraph
 



To the OP: I don't think this is very accurate. There are lots of missions to the middle east. Part of the problem with Syria right now is that it is completely embroiled in violence. Even the red cross/crescent is having a difficult time getting help to the people that need it because of the violence.

To say that western Christians are leaving our middle eastern brothers and sisters to their fates because we're trying to hasten the second coming is ridiculous.


The article is talking about Evangelical Christians who long for and WANT the "End-Times".

It is not talking about ALL WESTERN Christians. You are correct, there are missions to the middle east; and yes, the article is from a Muslim perspective, so it's bound to 'criticize' Western Christians - but at LEAST it's pointing out WHICH BRANCHES of Western Christianity are the problem.

I posted a sister thread about how Muslim clergy are inciting violence and ignorance as well. Right before this one.

Point/Counterpoint. It's a debate, and a gravely important one, if we are ever to have "peace on Earth and goodwill toward men." Christian or not, that is what I 'fight for.'

Peace on Earth, and Goodwill Toward men/women/children.
It's not complicated.

To take someone to task for not even helping their own "brothers and sisters in faith", because they want to hasten the rapture, is appropriate.

John Hagee is a perfect example of the kind of monster I am discussing.


WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE? If you were not aware of them, then I understand your disbelief - but those people - the Zionists, DO EXIST. Vocally. And push at politicos to further their agenda of "bringing on the rapture."



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 11:17 AM
link   
reply to post by wildtimes
 



They are Christians if they hold the same beliefs that Jesus Is God that Western Christians do.


Oh, you mean the ones being threatened with eviction. Well, what exactly are we supposed to do? It's not like the Russians helped us when we were fighting to free the slaves...



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 11:18 AM
link   
reply to post by wildtimes
 


Christians, If a non-Christian sees it, why can't we?

Yes, we are failing our brothers and sisters, as Wildtimes has said. And we should all desire peace. But Wildtimes, as long as there are humans and a multiplicity of human perspective and intellect, there will never be peace. Humans have a way of doing that.

I told other Christians that I pay OxFam every month for charity, and Christians took offense because it was a "secular" organization. What? Doesn't that go against what our purpose is? Those people are hungry, physically, and even though I can't get out to help, I still do something. Those are little children going hungry. Then it became "charity starts at home". Yes, I get that too, but what's the $20 every month to OxFam going to take away from home?

I even donate to Charitywater.org, because people need clean water to drink. And here, even if you are homeless, you can still find clean water somewhere to drink. But let me put it this way, I don't support grown up people that become homeless through their own failures, but I do support those who have children and through things they could not control, ended up homeless.

I have been a hungry child, I know what it is like. And God forbid should I ever see a hungry child, I feed them when I see them hungry. Children don't know or understand why their parents don't feed them. If a single mother did all she could and ended up homeless, then she needs help. But a grown man who dd drugs and let the drugs take him from a home to the street, then he needs to get into an addiction center, not more money thrown at him.

That's how I see it.



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 11:25 AM
link   
reply to post by WarminIndy
 



But Wildtimes, as long as there are humans and a multiplicity of human perspective and intellect, there will never be peace. Humans have a way of doing that.


*deep, sad, sigh*

And I keep hoping against hope that the "Christ Consciousness" will eventually find all people, everwhere...or the "Buddha Consciousness", or the "New Age Consciousness." Because based on what's going on today, you are right. And it makes me very, very sad.

The apathy and inaction are just as bad as the aggression and violence. There HAS to be middle ground.

Waaaaa
I'll never give up trying to push for peace, of getting up in people's faces about their duplicity, apathy, and hypocrisy. You've made great points here about how Western Christians for the most part are not worried - no one is going to rocket their homes, rape their spouses, etc. I applaud your gestures to provide charity via those venues you chose.

Thanks for your thoughts, Indy. I value your willingness to discuss these things; I'm sorry you were neglected as a kid, too. I hope you know I hold no grudges or misgivings about people like yourself who have embraced "true" Christianity and faith in God's benevolence.

*another sad sigh*



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 11:34 AM
link   
reply to post by wildtimes
 


There is one thing though that people don't know or understand about Israel, in their law they guarantee freedom of religion for all religions.

So as they play the game of "Zionist conspriacies", they aren't really being truthful about their own representation in the Israeli government. Yes, Muslims are in the Knesset.

History of Israel's Constitution
List of Arabs in the Knesset

Zionism is a secular government, one of which Muslims partake in Israel. There was even Muslims on their Supreme Court, interesting.

The Knesset



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 11:39 AM
link   
reply to post by wildtimes
 


Well, we didn't start off that way, but we got there


I seem to be very disconnected from mainstream Christianity. Maybe that's because I was always looking from the outside in. It's like walking past a store window and seeing inside things that interest me, but the storekeeper tells me I don't dress like they do, therefore I can't buy from them.



new topics

top topics



 
4
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join