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How Shariah, an Intended Compass for Peace, Became a Tool of Oppression

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posted on Nov, 8 2013 @ 11:36 AM
link   
reply to post by WarminIndy
 





But can you tell me in what point in history has there ever been world peace?


Can you tell me what point in history there weren't religious leaders and their agendas inciting wars in their god's name.


I would love to see a world at peace, but it isn't going to happen soon and it isn't going to happen when there are so many worldviews that are in conflict with each other.


I agree.




posted on Nov, 8 2013 @ 11:42 AM
link   
reply to post by windword
 


It comes from people being cruel toward each other. If we go way back into history, we see that repeated over and over again. Religion is a mask for many people. Remove the mask and see who they really are.

I think that is what atheists and agnostics attempt, to remove the masks of religious people. I won't stop that, because I have to do that as well, but I am not wearing a mask, this is who I really am.

No one is simply a Christian because they say they are, they should be bearing good fruits, and if they are not, then no one should eat of their fruit.

If I am told that I can't hide my inward light, then my inward light should be good. It it's a big flashing neon one that says "Eat at Joe's Church and Crabshack", then that should be a red flag.



posted on Nov, 8 2013 @ 12:42 PM
link   
reply to post by WarminIndy
 



I think that is what atheists and agnostics attempt, to remove the masks of religious people. I won't stop that, because I have to do that as well, but I am not wearing a mask, this is who I really am.

No one is simply a Christian because they say they are, they should be bearing good fruits, and if they are not, then no one should eat of their fruit.

Exactly!!

I believe it is who you really are - and you are approachable, conversant, well-educated, and amenable to challenge. I LIKE THAT.

My posts ALSO reflect who I really am....and I know some find me hostile - which I am, toward organized, shaming religions - but as you say above, "If they are wearing a 'mask'..." (which probably the majority of them are, because they are unable to discern the elegance and mystical ideas, and can only 'grasp' what the televangelist mega-church pastors tell them - unable to reach the heights of philosophical abstraction, in my opinion)... it always reeks of having been 'indoctrinated' with shame, self-loathing, worthlessness, etc. and needs to be confronted. ESPECIALLY when they pass it on to their precious children.

You are a brilliant woman, Indy. I'm glad to have met you.

edit on 11/8/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 8 2013 @ 02:01 PM
link   
reply to post by wildtimes
 


You are the first person who ever said I was brilliant, most people don't understand me. And I ain't lyin' at that.

Maybe my intelligence comes from a higher place than most people allow theirs so they have to be reduced to watching televangelists? That could be, but maybe it is because I tend to study and research more. Given my childhood and my life, I guess you could say I beat the odds against me.

Glad to have met you also.



posted on Nov, 8 2013 @ 02:02 PM
link   

WarminIndy

wildtimes
reply to post by WarminIndy
 



If you don't mind, I have downloaded a copy of Sharia law, called Ftiq, it is jurisprudence of Islamic law and will use that to quote from on my posts. People don't want to do this, but it is necessary to know what they are thinking.

We can compare side by side if we wish, it might be beneficial to do so.

That is a FANTASTIC suggestion. I look forward to it. As much as I've spent the last year trying to learn more about Islam, I still have lots of questions about it. You are a very well-credentialed teacher, Indy.. Thank you for lending your wisdom and accumulated knowledge to us. That's the thing that keeps me here - learning, sharing, and growing.



It will be very hard to take an objective view of Sharia. And the first thing to understand is that Sharia intends to displace the Constitution. This is something as an American, that I cannot allow.

People need to understand that Islam is a political ideology, then it is a religion. The first thing Mohammed did was politically maneuver himself into killing his opponents to establish Islam. He killed an old man poet, he killed a woman that was breastfeeding her child, he killed people that disagreed with him. But it was to establish himself politically, by creating a religion. That's the difference in why it is not religion based.

He was eventually killed by poison that a Jewish woman, that he had raped after killing her husband and father, and she tested him on his prophethood by saying "If you are a true prophet, then you won't be killed". He was killed. This is recorded in the Hadiths.


I fully agree that Sharia is intended to replace slowly any institute/regime of any state.
It is a diseased ideology that threatens human rights of every creed, race and gender. That`s what it did with the core of Islam, it has been hijacked -no pun intended- by some "muslims" 200yrs (creation of the hadiths) after the death of mohammed to control what they couldn`t otherwise. Islam is not to be blamed for, because of what some muslims made lawful whats unlawful. The hadith fully and bluntly contradicts the Qu`ran.
They took and played around with “Obey God and obey the Messenger", and inserted Mohammed in the english translation to deviate the reader into obeying mohammed`s action, although it is stated in the qu`ran


3:79 It is not for any human being that God would give him the Book and the authority and the prophethood, then he would say to the people: “Be servants to me rather than God!” Rather: “Be Devotees for what you have been taught of the Book, and of what you have studied.”



2:79 So woe to those who write the Book with their hands then say: “This is from God,” so that they can purchase with it a cheap price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they gained.



7:185 Have they not looked at the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that God has created? Perhaps their time is drawing near; so in which narrative after this one will they believe?


Where most muslims go wrong is their obsession with Mohammed, although he was only a mere human chosen to clarify and warn the people of the word of God, just like all the other messengers they created this whole new belief system.


46:9 Say: “I am no different from the other messengers, nor do I know what will happen to me or to you. I only follow what is inspired to me. I am no more than a clear warner”


God does not distinguish among his messengers, they is no favorite nor chosen people.


3:3 He sent down to you the Book with the truth, authenticating what is between his hands; and He sent down the Torah and the Gospel.


All revelations(Torah, Gospel and the Qu`ran) are from God, its all one truth.



posted on Nov, 8 2013 @ 02:09 PM
link   
reply to post by WarminIndy
 



You are the first person who ever said I was brilliant, most people don't understand me. And I ain't lyin' at that.

Well, it's about freaking time someone did!! And I ain't lyin', either.



Maybe my intelligence comes from a higher place than most people allow theirs so they have to be reduced to watching televangelists? That could be, but maybe it is because I tend to study and research more. Given my childhood and my life, I guess you could say I beat the odds against me.


It's both - intelligence from a higher place, AND study and research. Along with a truly good heart.

and yes, you DEFINITELY beat the odds against you. Resiliency is a funny thing. Some kids have it, and others don't. You are a jewel, a gift to humanity. "Brilliance" is a word related to "brightness of light". You've got it, sista.



edit on 11/8/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 8 2013 @ 02:21 PM
link   

5:68 Say: “O people of the Book, you are not upon anything until you uphold the Torah and the Gospel and what was sent down to you from your Lord.” And for many of them, what was sent down to you from your Lord will only increase them in transgression and rejection. So do not feel sorry for the rejecting people



5:69 Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Sabians, and the Nazarenes, whoever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good works; then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve.


So how can they try to implement Sharia when the qu`ran states that you don`t have to be a muslim to be a believer and vice VERSA!


EDIT; all the verses are from the quran
edit on 8-11-2013 by BeaverTail because: source



posted on Nov, 8 2013 @ 02:31 PM
link   
reply to post by WarminIndy
 


Mosaic Law is a term for Laws of Moses and God.


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosaic_covenant
en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Moses
en.wikipedia.org...

The adjective "Mosaic" meaning "of Moses" is also found in the description "Mosaic Law" in which case only the actual law, not the five books is intended.


 


I am referring to the Collection of laws and guidelines though out the Torah.

Lets start with foods for example.

First compare the similarities between Kosher and Halal here, if you haven't already. Just a quick google search comparison:

Comparison of Islamic and Jewish dietary laws
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Islamic_and_Jewish_dietary_laws
en.wikipedia.org...

meat.tamu.edu/ansc-307-honors/kosher-halal/
meat.tamu.edu...

Texas A&M University Kosher and Halal Comparison
meat.tamu.edu/ansc-307-honors/kosher-halal/
meat.tamu.edu...

After comparing you will see some minor differences. Since we are talking Law, let me play lawyer.

In the book of Numbers the story of Sampson occurs. He is to become a Nazirite. Oddly similar to the word Nazi.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
en.wikipedia.org...'s_law

Well anyways to be a Nazirite a "Warrior of God" which is apparently a DHS keyword one has to follow certain steps.


Wikipedia Reference of Nazirite
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazirite
en.wikipedia.org...

In the Hebrew Bible, a Nazirite or Nazarite, (in Hebrew: נזיר, nazir), refers to one who voluntarily took a vow described in Numbers 6:1–21. The proper noun "Nazarite" comes from the Hebrew word nazir meaning "consecrated" or "separated".[1] This vow required the man or woman to:

Abstain from wine, wine vinegar, grapes, raisins, intoxicating liquors,[2] vinegar distilled from such substances,[3] and eating or drinking any substance that contains any trace of grapes.[4]

Refrain from cutting the hair on one's head; but to allow the locks of the head's hair to grow.[5]

Not to become impure by corpses or graves, even those of family members.[6]

After following these requirements for a designated period of time (which would be specified in the individual's vow), the person would immerse in a mikveh and make three offerings: a lamb as a burnt offering (olah), a ewe as a sin-offering (hatat), and a ram as a peace offering (shelamim), in addition to a basket of unleavened bread, grain offerings and drink offerings, which accompanied the peace offering. They would also shave their head in the outer courtyard of the Temple (the Jerusalem Temple for Judaism) and then place the hair on the same fire as the peace offering. (Numbers 6:18)

The Nazirite is described as being "holy unto YHWH" (Numbers 6:8), yet at the same time must bring a sin offering. This has led to divergent approaches to the Nazirite in the Talmud, and later authorities, with some viewing the Nazirite as an ideal, and others viewing him as a sinner.

In Modern Hebrew the word "nazir" is commonly used for monks, both Christian and Buddhist - this meaning having largely displaced the original Biblical meaning.


So if a person were to thoroughly read the Torah, it is all there.

Another thought:
The Quran was one Lawyers rebuttal to another lawyers Talmud.

For every "kill the Infidel", you can find a "Kill the Gentile"!!

 


Warning Strong Language (F Word):

The Devil's Advocate - Special Scene/God Conversation
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yA7HUlJsW8
www.youtube.com...

edit on 8-11-2013 by AbleEndangered because: addition



posted on Nov, 8 2013 @ 02:37 PM
link   

BeaverTail

reply to post by WarminIndy
 


All revelations(Torah, Gospel and the Qu`ran) are from God, its all one truth.


I agreed with you up until this point. I could list here the reasons why or I can make another post showing why I believe against this position. So in as much concise manner as possible, I will attempt.

First of all, because the Qu'ran is a recitation, from Jibreel to Mohammed (we assume because he said so) we have to go back to that night in the cave of Hira to see what really happened and see if it is God inspired and even if the God he called allah was really the same God as the Christians and Jews.

I am glad you have posted the surahs, which are actually chapters, for those who didn't know. We should do that when discussing their book and worldview.

The story of the cave of Hira come from two people, first Aisha and the second was Abu Hiraira. Neither of them were witnesses and Aisha was not alive when Kadhijah had died, so her information came from Mohammed telling her about it, and so far, and this is what is strange in my opinion as to why the Hadith would say this "His wife Kadhijah. Aisha was his third wife and the youngest,but she should have said "his first wife" but it wasn't written that way. It is though she had disconnected herself from being his wife. But anyway, we have Mohammed telling her this is what those people had said, even though they had died long before, so she would not have been able to ask them if it had really happened.


Muslims really have to take it on faith that it really happened.

But as the story goes, as he went to the cave of Hira to meditate, he suddenly was confronted by a being who told him to RECITE. Mohammed didn't know what to recite and became afraid, ran out of the cave because this thing beat him up. He ran to his house to have Kadhijah cover him up because he was so afraid, he was almost in shock. She asks him what happened and it was she who informed him it was Jibreel. The entity had never introduced itself as Jibreel.

Not a light being, not an angel, but a natural star. And this is how the translations have it, Mohammed states that Jibreel, the Mighty One, gave him revelation.


Surah 53:7
Sahih International Taught to him by one intense in strength -
Muhsin Khan He has been taught (this Quran) by one mighty in power [Jibrael (Gabriel)].
Pickthall Which one of mighty powers hath taught him,
Yusuf Ali He was taught by one Mighty in Power,
Shakir The Lord of Mighty Power has taught him,
Dr. Ghali One of valiant powers has taught him.


As the Bible does not ascribe or describe Gabriel in this manner, then where does the idea come from that Jibreel is the Lord of Mighty Power as the Shakir translation has it?

And this being, this star descending is who gave Mohammed revelation. And surah 53 is part of the Satanic verses that he later abrogated because he mentions the daughters of allah.


Surah 53:19
Sahih International So have you considered al-Lat and al-'Uzza?
Muhsin Khan Have you then considered Al-Lat, and Al-'Uzza (two idols of the pagan Arabs).
Pickthall Have ye thought upon Al-Lat and Al-'Uzza
Yusuf Ali Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza,
Shakir Have you then considered the Lat and the Uzza,
Dr. Ghali Have you then seen Al-Lat and Al- cUzza,


They were more than just two idols, they were the daughters of Allah. And this was a sticky for Abu Bakr, who questioned why Mohammed mentioned them, and then Mohammed said he received that revelation from Satan, hence the Satanic verses.

But Mohammed also claimed that he had been bewitched for over a year, because a young boy bewitched him, and makes claims that he had sex with his wives when he hadn't.

So if you have someone who claims an entity beats him up, then told by someone else it is Jibreel, then claims Jibreel is a star, then claims his revelation came from Satan, then claims he fixed it through abrogation, then you really have to take pause and consider if he were really a true prophet receiving revelation from a true God, the same as Moses and Abraham. He was capable of being tricked and bewitched.



posted on Nov, 8 2013 @ 02:43 PM
link   
reply to post by AbleEndangered
 


AshkeNAZI also sounds like it...and Ashkenaz was the Hebrew word for Germany....

Hmmm.

But I know what Mosaic law is, and if we "play" lawyer, comparing law for law, whose side are you taking here so I know what side I am on?



posted on Nov, 8 2013 @ 02:46 PM
link   

WarminIndy
reply to post by AbleEndangered
 


AshkeNAZI also sounds like it...and Ashkenaz was the Hebrew word for Germany....

Hmmm.

But I know what Mosaic law is, and if we "play" lawyer, comparing law for law, whose side are you taking here so I know what side I am on?


And that isn't exactly true, as the Orthodox perspective is that gentiles are under the Noahide law. And Solomon sure didn't ascribe to that, in fact he even mentions that gentiles could worship God also. They were invited and to be received in worship.

I think you should read the Tanahk as well.



posted on Nov, 8 2013 @ 02:48 PM
link   
reply to post by WarminIndy
 


Yeah recently stumbled into the Tanakh.

About to dive in soon...



posted on Nov, 8 2013 @ 02:53 PM
link   

AbleEndangered
reply to post by WarminIndy
 


Yeah recently stumbled into the Tanakh.

About to dive in soon...


The Tanakh is actually the rest of the OT.

Every Christian reads the Tankh, they just don't realize it, and the Jews didn't know our OT is the Tanakh either. They had no idea on either side.



posted on Nov, 8 2013 @ 03:13 PM
link   
reply to post by WarminIndy
 



WarminIndy
reply to post by AbleEndangered
 


AshkeNAZI also sounds like it...and Ashkenaz was the Hebrew word for Germany....

Hmmm.

But I know what Mosaic law is, and if we "play" lawyer, comparing law for law, whose side are you taking here so I know what side I am on?



WarminIndy

AbleEndangered
reply to post by WarminIndy
 


Yeah recently stumbled into the Tanakh.

About to dive in soon...


The Tanakh is actually the rest of the OT.

Every Christian reads the Tankh, they just don't realize it, and the Jews didn't know our OT is the Tanakh either. They had no idea on either side.


Haha. I guess my knowledge of the Tanakh is a give away of which side I was on or coming from!!

I bet there are variances in the translations like that found in the Qumran Dead Sea scrolls book of Isaiah.

 


Have you heard of the Zohar? I haven't read the Zohar yet myself but it sounds incredibly interesting.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zohar
en.wikipedia.org...

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/Zohar.png
upload.wikimedia.org...

 


I have made it into some of these.
Lists of Lost books, Apychrophal and Non-Caninical Books:

A list of Apocryphal Books on the Wikipedia Bible reference page:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible
en.wikipedia.org...

Non-canonical books referenced in the Bible
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-canonical_books_referenced_in_the_Bible
en.wikipedia.org...

Ethiopian Orthodox Canonical Books:
www.ethiopianorthodox.org/english/canonical/books.html
www.ethiopianorthodox.org...

The Lost Books of the Bible and the Forgotten Books of Eden
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lost_Books_of_the_Bible_and_the_Forgotten_Books_of_Eden
en.wikipedia.org...

The book of Solomon, or Wisdom of Solomon and the Book of Yasher, Jasher, Yashar or Jashar are amazing reads. Many ways to say that one. Tobit is another.

Check this out its a little off topic.

The Book of Wisdom of Solomon
st-takla.org/pub_Deuterocanon/Deuterocanon-Apocrypha_El-Asfar_El-Kanoneya_El-Tanya__4-Wisdon-of-Solomon.html
st-takla.org...

Just read the first and last chapter to start out. There is an older Vulgate translation as well. Also check out St. Jerome Translations and St. Jerome himself if you haven't.

 


1 of three places that word came from so far.

1. National Socialist Party
Which I don't even see how. Maybe Na.S.y....

2. Ashkenazi

3. Nazirite
I'm wondering if its Nazirite. That was what he was kinda doing. Making warriors of god. The way they
were teaching the children.
edit on 8-11-2013 by AbleEndangered because: additions, added quotes, organized and format



posted on Nov, 8 2013 @ 03:52 PM
link   
reply to post by AbleEndangered
 


The Zohar isn't Jewish scripture, it's just a bunch of guys ideas about things. But read it if you wish. And the Talmud is also a book of opinions and other stories.

As far as the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Book of Isaiah is the same in my KJV, so nothing has changed there.

I refer to St. Jerome, because he translated the Bible from the original Hebrew, which St. Augustine did not. I do not like St. Augustine, his anti-Semitism turns my stomach.
edit on 11/8/2013 by WarminIndy because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 8 2013 @ 04:25 PM
link   
reply to post by WarminIndy
 


I see some heavy Greek influence in the Zohar from glancing at it. I have mixed feelings about the Talmud. I really would like a better understanding of both the Talmud and Quran, among many more.

The ancient Hindu Manuscripts are pretty out there too and good reads. Lots of Similarities throughout World Religions.

Check out:

Gandhara & Gandhara Buddhism. A cross between East and West.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandhara
en.wikipedia.org...

Alexander the Great had something to do with this I think.

 


There was a big discrepancy in the Book of Isaiah compared to the Roman Catholic Version.

Book of Isaiah
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Isaiah
en.wikipedia.org...

Where it supposed to say "Young Virgin", the older manuscript was "Young Woman". Was a big stink for the Vatican a while back.

 


Thinking back to the No Wine, Grapes, Raisins diet of a Nazirite. I think there may be a relationship to Boron...


www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=33
www.whfoods.com...

Boron for Better Bone Health

Although not often spotlighted in public health recommendations, boron is a mineral that is critical to our health, and has been of special interest in women in relationship to bone health and osteoporosis (bone softening). Boron is a trace mineral required to convert estrogen and vitamin D to their most active forms (17-beta-estradiol and 1,25-(OH)2D3 respectively). Estrogen levels drop after menopause causing osteoclasts to become more sensitive to parathyroid hormone, which signals them to break down bone. Studies have shown that boron provides protection against osteoporosis and reproduces many of the positive effects of estrogen therapy in postmenopausal women. Raisins are among the top 50 contributors to total dietary boron in the U.S. diet.


edit on 8-11-2013 by AbleEndangered because: additions and typo



posted on Nov, 8 2013 @ 04:57 PM
link   
reply to post by AbleEndangered
 


Given that she was young, that's one consistency, and since she was a female, that is consistent also.

But what does Mary reply, and not quoting Isaiah in her response "How can this be, seeing as I have not known a man", which in Bible speak, means she had never had sex. I would hate to see the modern YOLO translations or Urban Dictionary translation, whew we dodged a bullet there.


The KJV uses the word maiden when referring to girls around 12-14. So Mary was older, and since she was older she did show a comprehension and maturity. So it seems she may have been more like 18 to me. I would think the context is the same in both translations, but since there was no age attached, then we have to assume. And what age would we assume is the safest for women to have babies in that time? 18 seems about right to me.



posted on Nov, 8 2013 @ 05:10 PM
link   
reply to post by WarminIndy
 


Well some would use this argue against and discredit the New Testament legitimacy altogether...

I'm not gonna wage that war because, what John writes on Patmos Island takes the cake for me...

Yeah, they get the hips by 17-18!! Some earlier....

 


I was just reviewing my messy posts and,

Please excuse my duplicate link above:


AbleEndangered
meat.tamu.edu/ansc-307-honors/kosher-halal/
meat.tamu.edu...

Texas A&M University Kosher and Halal Comparison
meat.tamu.edu/ansc-307-honors/kosher-halal/
meat.tamu.edu...


edit on 8-11-2013 by AbleEndangered because: typo



posted on Nov, 8 2013 @ 05:55 PM
link   

AbleEndangered
reply to post by WarminIndy
 


Well some would use this argue against and discredit the New Testament legitimacy altogether...

I'm not gonna wage that war because, what John writes on Patmos Island takes the cake for me...

Yeah, they get the hips by 17-18!! Some earlier....

 




edit on 8-11-2013 by AbleEndangered because: typo


Hips don't lie!!! LOL.

And you think it is referring to Mary in Revelation? Can you explain why you think so? I am just interested in why you think that way.

Is she the woman clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet? That's a very terrifying contrast we have of her as the humble Jewish lady to one that the dragon wants to wage war with her. If she is, then we underestimate her role and position in spirituality.

She is the mother of my Lord, so she should be respected more than we have done.



posted on Nov, 8 2013 @ 06:29 PM
link   

WarminIndy

BeaverTail

reply to post by WarminIndy
 


All revelations(Torah, Gospel and the Qu`ran) are from God, its all one truth.


I agreed with you up until this point. I could list here the reasons why or I can make another post showing why I believe against this position. So in as much concise manner as possible, I will attempt.

First of all, because the Qu'ran is a recitation, from Jibreel to Mohammed (we assume because he said so) we have to go back to that night in the cave of Hira to see what really happened and see if it is God inspired and even if the God he called allah was really the same God as the Christians and Jews.

I am glad you have posted the surahs, which are actually chapters, for those who didn't know. We should do that when discussing their book and worldview.

The story of the cave of Hira come from two people, first Aisha and the second was Abu Hiraira. Neither of them were witnesses and Aisha was not alive when Kadhijah had died, so her information came from Mohammed telling her about it, and so far, and this is what is strange in my opinion as to why the Hadith would say this "His wife Kadhijah. Aisha was his third wife and the youngest,but she should have said "his first wife" but it wasn't written that way. It is though she had disconnected herself from being his wife. But anyway, we have Mohammed telling her this is what those people had said, even though they had died long before, so she would not have been able to ask them if it had really happened.


Muslims really have to take it on faith that it really happened.

But as the story goes, as he went to the cave of Hira to meditate, he suddenly was confronted by a being who told him to RECITE. Mohammed didn't know what to recite and became afraid, ran out of the cave because this thing beat him up. He ran to his house to have Kadhijah cover him up because he was so afraid, he was almost in shock. She asks him what happened and it was she who informed him it was Jibreel. The entity had never introduced itself as Jibreel.

Not a light being, not an angel, but a natural star. And this is how the translations have it, Mohammed states that Jibreel, the Mighty One, gave him revelation.


Surah 53:7
Sahih International Taught to him by one intense in strength -
Muhsin Khan He has been taught (this Quran) by one mighty in power [Jibrael (Gabriel)].
Pickthall Which one of mighty powers hath taught him,
Yusuf Ali He was taught by one Mighty in Power,
Shakir The Lord of Mighty Power has taught him,
Dr. Ghali One of valiant powers has taught him.


As the Bible does not ascribe or describe Gabriel in this manner, then where does the idea come from that Jibreel is the Lord of Mighty Power as the Shakir translation has it?

And this being, this star descending is who gave Mohammed revelation. And surah 53 is part of the Satanic verses that he later abrogated because he mentions the daughters of allah.


Surah 53:19
Sahih International So have you considered al-Lat and al-'Uzza?
Muhsin Khan Have you then considered Al-Lat, and Al-'Uzza (two idols of the pagan Arabs).
Pickthall Have ye thought upon Al-Lat and Al-'Uzza
Yusuf Ali Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza,
Shakir Have you then considered the Lat and the Uzza,
Dr. Ghali Have you then seen Al-Lat and Al- cUzza,


They were more than just two idols, they were the daughters of Allah. And this was a sticky for Abu Bakr, who questioned why Mohammed mentioned them, and then Mohammed said he received that revelation from Satan, hence the Satanic verses.

But Mohammed also claimed that he had been bewitched for over a year, because a young boy bewitched him, and makes claims that he had sex with his wives when he hadn't.

So if you have someone who claims an entity beats him up, then told by someone else it is Jibreel, then claims Jibreel is a star, then claims his revelation came from Satan, then claims he fixed it through abrogation, then you really have to take pause and consider if he were really a true prophet receiving revelation from a true God, the same as Moses and Abraham. He was capable of being tricked and bewitched.




I must say that i don't have much knowledge in the hadiths, but i have read the qu'ran if its possible (for discussion sake) to post the verse about the beating fro the quran?

the verse about Gabriel being the Lord is actually incorrect. Lord in arabic is rab,no where do you see the word Rab(Lord) in the verse
-53:5 "AAallamahu shadeedu alquwa"
The translation is wrong
allamahu= fa'allamahu means so he taught him or been taught by

Source

and what makes you think that the verse was abograted or from satan? Initially Mekka was a pagan city, pre islamic arabs used the kaaba as a center for idol worshippers. If the verse was satanic, why would satan ask mohammed/or the people about their belief?

the surah continues with


53:21 Do you have the males, while He has the females?
53:22 What a strange distribution!
53:23 These are but names that you made up, you and your forefathers. God never authorized such. They only follow conjecture, and personal desire, while the guidance has come to them from their Lord.


Most Arabian idolaters believed the idols and angels to be females.

"Al-Uzzá (Arabic: العزى‎ al-ʻUzzá [al ʕuzzaː]) was one of the three chief goddesses of Arabian religion in pre-Islamic times and was worshiped as one of the daughters of Allah by the pre-Islamic Arabs along with Allāt and Manāt."

wiki

Again I can not refer or discuss using the hadiths since it came long after the prophet/close followers and family passed away. I know the hadiths aren't 100% authentic (since in comes in different degrees of plausibility) so it wouldn't fair just picking and choosing what pleases the ear for discussion sake.
edit on 8-11-2013 by BeaverTail because: (no reason given)



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