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How Shariah, an Intended Compass for Peace, Became a Tool of Oppression

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posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 02:34 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 






Yes, it is a misquote when it is taken as literal, when it is spiritual,


Aye! There's the rub! When do we take the Bible literally and when do we take it metaphorically?

Going back to my original post, and the reason I posted it, Christianity has had "jihads" based on New Testament scripture, that's a fact. Religion has never been for creating peace. Religion serves the purpose of controlling the masses.




posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 04:25 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Do you feel the same way against African Americans? If not, why? Is it okay to be prejudice against all Christians, but not against all African Americans or even all whites? Where do you make the distinction between hatred and simply calling out those who choose to steal, kill and destroy? Many Americans are Fat. Are you fat because you are an American?



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 04:41 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


What are you going on about!? The bulk of the OP is about Sharia Law. Last time I checked that was a Muslim thing. And, oh yeah, by the way, there are Christians that have been guilty of the same harshness as Sharia.

Do you think all Christians are saints beyond repoach? Do think that Christians that want to kill gays don't exist? Do you think that there are no Christians in power positions aiming to bring on Armegeddon?



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 04:45 PM
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windword
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


What are you going on about!? The bulk of the OP is about Sharia Law. Last time I checked that was a Muslim thing. And, oh yeah, by the way, there are Christians that have been guilty of the same harshness as Sharia.

Do you think all Christians are saints beyond repoach? Do think that Christians that want to kill gays don't exist? Do you think that there are no Christians in power positions aiming to bring on Armegeddon?


There are, and they take the name in vain. Lumping all Americans into the category of being fat would be wrong. Lumping all African Americans into the class of criminal is wrong. It is simple prejudice. I am merely asking where it ends with the implication that all Christians are evil.



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 05:19 PM
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windword
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


What are you going on about!? The bulk of the OP is about Sharia Law. Last time I checked that was a Muslim thing. And, oh yeah, by the way, there are Christians that have been guilty of the same harshness as Sharia.

Do you think all Christians are saints beyond repoach? Do think that Christians that want to kill gays don't exist? Do you think that there are no Christians in power positions aiming to bring on Armegeddon?


This brings up another point. The OP is about a corrupted system of law. How do we know this to be true? Simple. The same evangelical Christians that are seeking to save a lost world are preaching the true law of God. We don't need to reason it out. It's evident. The reason they are evangelizing the world is to educate the world on the consequences coming against those who steal, kill and destroy. Blasting this amounts to shooting the messenger giving you the answer to the problem.

Here is the Christian version of the law. It's called freedom and liberty arising from faith and love in the one who told us the end before the beginning. It is fruitless to argue that this is a fact. It is happening as stated in the Bible. What other document can claim this?

Galatians 5

13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh[a]; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

---Hate cannot dispel hate. Only love dispels hate (Buddha).

16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[c] you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

This is the message of the evangelical Christian. The End Times are not the destruction of our way of life. It is the liberation of life to set us free. From what? Those who steal, kill and destroy.

What are we trying to do as Christians? Get people to see the truth. Again, it's evident and spelled out clearly in the passage above. The entire Bible is this same message over and over again.




edit on 7-11-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 05:24 PM
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windword
reply to post by WarminIndy
 






Yes, it is a misquote when it is taken as literal, when it is spiritual,


Aye! There's the rub! When do we take the Bible literally and when do we take it metaphorically?

Going back to my original post, and the reason I posted it, Christianity has had "jihads" based on New Testament scripture, that's a fact. Religion has never been for creating peace. Religion serves the purpose of controlling the masses.


I would think common sense should tell you. But since common sense is thrown out the window, then we have to ask, are all Christians proclaiming Jihad? Or did some Christians?

And isn't the definition of Jihad a struggle, then isn't what you are doing a Jihad as well?

Do you think that the Bible is so beyond mystery that one can't know the difference in literal and metaphorical? If you take the Bible in totality, instead of individual verses, then you would see the totality of the Bible is a book of moral guidance and that it does teach moral lessons we are to learn by.

OK, if the Bible is to be taken literal in every chapter, then it should be literal on every page, that would only make sense. And if the Bible is to be taken metaphorically, then all of it should be. But since the Bible is designed to present us with real people with real human flaws, that we are to learn by their actions, then it is literal and metaphorical in that sense. As I do believe there was a first man and woman that existed at one time beyond the current time frame we have them placed at, and only know them by their Hebrew words, words that became names in Hebrew, we miss out on something. Adam is simply the word for Man and Eve is simply the word for life, which became proper names.

Do I believe in a global flood? Yes, that was something accepted now, but we only know the Biblical character named Noah. But since that story is much more ancient, perhaps we can stick to his Sumerian name Gilgamesh? Would that suffice instead of Noah?

But the flood story is found in all ancient cultures and languages.

What is it that we are supposed to learn from it though? That's the takeaway.

Do I believe Abraham existed? Yes, I do but even the Bible states he was not Jewish, only a patriarch of the Jews. There is a difference and the Bible is clear about that. Abraham was from Harappa. This is something historically true and something the ancient scholars and historians wrote about. Now you might say "Oh, the Bible says Ur of the Chaldees" but you have to remember that by the time it was written, Chaldea did exist as the name of the geopolitical boundaries. Harappa is now known to have encompassed that area.

Do I believe in Moses and Joseph? Yes, I do. But the current thought among scholars and archeologists is that Joseph was Imhotep. As we know Joseph from the Hebrew, does not mean the Hebrews wrote it in Egyptian.

And the Jews still celebrate Passover the same way, it is an unbroken tradition. Do I believe Levi and the 12 tribes existed? Yes, and the DNA proves it.

Through all of that though, we are to learn something morally and that the Bible teaches Cause and Effect and accountability for actions.



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 06:35 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


You're confusing religion with your personal faith. Religion is an invention by man to control men.




If you take the Bible in totality, instead of individual verses, then you would see the totality of the Bible is a book of moral guidance and that it does teach moral lessons we are to learn by.


I would disagree with that statement. What morality does the Bible teach?


OK, if the Bible is to be taken literal in every chapter, then it should be literal on every page, that would only make sense. And if the Bible is to be taken metaphorically, then all of it should be.


That's the problem. People are still thinking that it's acceptable to stone adulterers and kill infidels. Some Christians take some things literal, like homesexual abonimation, but see Jesus telling people to sell their belongings and give the proceeds to the poor as metaphorical, for example.


But since the Bible is designed to present us with real people with real human flaws, that we are to learn by their actions, then it is literal and metaphorical in that sense.


What are we supposed to learn from Abraham? The murder of Jesus? From story of John the Baptist? Elijah? Peter?



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 08:11 PM
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windword
reply to post by WarminIndy
 


You're confusing religion with your personal faith. Religion is an invention by man to control men.




If you take the Bible in totality, instead of individual verses, then you would see the totality of the Bible is a book of moral guidance and that it does teach moral lessons we are to learn by.


I would disagree with that statement. What morality does the Bible teach?


OK, if the Bible is to be taken literal in every chapter, then it should be literal on every page, that would only make sense. And if the Bible is to be taken metaphorically, then all of it should be.


That's the problem. People are still thinking that it's acceptable to stone adulterers and kill infidels. Some Christians take some things literal, like homesexual abonimation, but see Jesus telling people to sell their belongings and give the proceeds to the poor as metaphorical, for example.


But since the Bible is designed to present us with real people with real human flaws, that we are to learn by their actions, then it is literal and metaphorical in that sense.


What are we supposed to learn from Abraham? The murder of Jesus? From story of John the Baptist? Elijah? Peter?




Please refer to my thread about the origins of religion. Christianity didn't start religion and I don't think we should fight that out on this thread. Just go read it, I think you missed it.

The morality the Bible teaches is that if we do something harmful, then it hurts others.

What are we supposed to learn from Abraham? Don't go making babies and causing domestic strife, it never turns out well. The kids fight, the women fight, no one is happy. Just wait on God for God to do what He said He promised He would. If we do things on our own, sometimes we mess it up royally.

The murder of Jesus, as I am a Christian, I don't think we want to get into the argument about the purpose of Jesus coming here, but the Bible gives over 456 prophecies about Jesus' birth, life, death, resurrection, ascension and returning. These are found in the OT.

So, let's just say this, the Bible is relatively accurate on that. If you choose not to believe that, then that's your choice. I'm not going to force you to believe anything. But books written more than 500 years before the birth of Christ, then it's a pretty big leap for one person to read these things and then try to fulfill all of them. The United States as a country isn't even that old and we are still debating "The Federalist Papers". And even more amazing, some of these books were written a thousand years before Christ. That makes it even more improbable that someone would attempt to do this. But as the Bible is accurate in prophecy regarding Christ, then I can only assume the Bible's validity in Jesus as the messiah.

And if the Bible is valid in that, then it is also valid regarding the purpose of why Jesus came here.



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 08:23 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 




Please refer to my thread about the origins of religion. Christianity didn't start religion and I don't think we should fight that out on this thread. Just go read it, I think you missed it.


This thread isn't about the origin of religion. It's about the corruption of and the corrupted influence it has on society and on humanity. Christianity isn't immune to such usury.



The murder of Jesus, as I am a Christian, I don't think we want to get into the argument about the purpose of Jesus coming here, but the Bible gives over 456 prophecies about Jesus' birth, life, death, resurrection, ascension and returning. These are found in the OT.


Two words. Reverse Enineering.

Not to mention many stretches of the imagination and tweeking of the scriptures.



What are we supposed to learn from Abraham? Don't go making babies and causing domestic strife, it never turns out well. The kids fight, the women fight, no one is happy. Just wait on God for God to do what He said He promised He would. If we do things on our own, sometimes we mess it up royally.


So basically, what you're saying is that, the morality that the Bible teaches is to listen to the voices inside ones . that say "this is God" and do what those voices tell you to do. Anything else is immoral. Is that right?







edit on 7-11-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 09:22 PM
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windword
reply to post by WarminIndy
 




Please refer to my thread about the origins of religion. Christianity didn't start religion and I don't think we should fight that out on this thread. Just go read it, I think you missed it.


This thread isn't about the origin of religion. It's about the corruption of and the corrupted influence it has on society and on humanity. Christianity isn't immune to such usury.



The murder of Jesus, as I am a Christian, I don't think we want to get into the argument about the purpose of Jesus coming here, but the Bible gives over 456 prophecies about Jesus' birth, life, death, resurrection, ascension and returning. These are found in the OT.


Two words. Reverse Enineering.

Not to mention many stretches of the imagination and tweeking of the scriptures.



What are we supposed to learn from Abraham? Don't go making babies and causing domestic strife, it never turns out well. The kids fight, the women fight, no one is happy. Just wait on God for God to do what He said He promised He would. If we do things on our own, sometimes we mess it up royally.


So basically, what you're saying is that, the morality that the Bible teaches is to listen to the voices inside ones . that say "this is God" and do what those voices tell you to do. Anything else is immoral. Is that right?







edit on 7-11-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)


Like I said, don't believe it if you don't want to. It's my prerogative and right to believe if I so wish. And I don't feel as though I am a corruptive agent in society.

Yes, this is a thread about Islam and how Islam is corrupted, which I will add from my perspective is not an Abrahamic faith, simply one that has hijacked a lot of other systems. But since Christianity has been placed next to Islam in your mind and posts, then it becomes, not about Islam, but against religion in general.

You would have to place me in the same boat when you make the statements against Christianity, therefore,as a Christian, I must be like Muslims, Jews and Zoroastrians, as those are all monotheistic religions. So therefore, if I am like all of those, then I must hold to stoning people and burning them at the stake.

Have I presented that mentality in any post?

But if I choose to follow a faith system, and choose Christianity, is there a subconscious desire in me to do those things toward others? Do I find some kind of justification, even though religion since time immemorial has had wicked and harmful people in them?

Are you fighting jihad against me, my faith or my religion? If you are fighting Jihad against any part of my faith system, then it makes you no better than what you accuse me of in my faith system. Would you care to see me be.ed because I am a Christian? Would that make you feel justified in your Jihad?

Jihad means struggle, so if there is a struggle against me because of my religion, then you are the same as you accuse other faiths.

As wildtimes made this a thread of sharia and Islam, then it becomes necessary to separate it from other religions. And you haven't been capable of doing that. But at the end of they day, do you have enough chutzpah to speak out against those members of your faith system that might do wrong this in the name of your faith system? I do and have been



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 10:22 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 





Yes, this is a thread about Islam and how Islam is corrupted, which I will add from my perspective is not an Abrahamic faith, simply one that has hijacked a lot of other systems.


One could imply the same about Christianity.




You would have to place me in the same boat when you make the statements against Christianity, therefore,as a Christian, I must be like Muslims, Jews and Zoroastrians, as those are all monotheistic religions. So therefore, if I am like all of those, then I must hold to stoning people and burning them at the stake.

Have I presented that mentality in any post?


Should I place you in that boat?

Do you want to see gays corralled, jailed or worse, put to death? Do you think that birth control should be illegal and women who choose NOT to get/be pregnant should be imprisoned or worse?

Do you think that church/Bible doctrine should dictate our laws? Should the 10 Commandments be displayed in courthouses?

Should creationism be taught on equal footing to evolution? Is science an atheistic religion?

Do you secretly or outwardly hope for the destruction of planet earth? Do you pray for Armegeddon?



Are you fighting jihad against me, my faith or my religion?


You're taking this pretty personally. Maybe you're the one fighting a jihad. I'm just saying that religion, including Christianity, doesn't have a goal of peace. Christianity is not concerned with world peace.

Religion was created by men to control men (people).



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 10:40 PM
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I would argue or concur that Shariah Law is the Exact same as Mosaic Law. Moses...



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 11:03 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Nov, 8 2013 @ 07:04 AM
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windword
reply to post by WarminIndy
 





Yes, this is a thread about Islam and how Islam is corrupted, which I will add from my perspective is not an Abrahamic faith, simply one that has hijacked a lot of other systems.


One could imply the same about Christianity.




You would have to place me in the same boat when you make the statements against Christianity, therefore,as a Christian, I must be like Muslims, Jews and Zoroastrians, as those are all monotheistic religions. So therefore, if I am like all of those, then I must hold to stoning people and burning them at the stake.

Have I presented that mentality in any post?


Should I place you in that boat?

Do you want to see gays corralled, jailed or worse, put to death? Do you think that birth control should be illegal and women who choose NOT to get/be pregnant should be imprisoned or worse?

Do you think that church/Bible doctrine should dictate our laws? Should the 10 Commandments be displayed in courthouses?

Should creationism be taught on equal footing to evolution? Is science an atheistic religion?

Do you secretly or outwardly hope for the destruction of planet earth? Do you pray for Armegeddon?



Are you fighting jihad against me, my faith or my religion?


You're taking this pretty personally. Maybe you're the one fighting a jihad. I'm just saying that religion, including Christianity, doesn't have a goal of peace. Christianity is not concerned with world peace.

Religion was created by men to control men (people).


Again, have I presented that mentality? Or did you see "Christian" and apply that to all Christians? That's called "false analogy"

A: WarminIndy is a Christian
B: Christians are killers

Therefore

C: WarminIndy is a killer

No, I do not wish for gays to be corralled and killed. I had a grandfather who was gay, thank you for not understanding Christian families.

The 10 Commandments contain nothing destructive in them. Do you think "thou shalt not kill" is a bad thing to hang up in a court of law where murderers are charged every day?

Do you want to go back to the whole Constitution?

No, I do not pray for Armageddon. Do I believe there will be Armageddon? I should not hope to see it in my day.

Who does not desire world peace? But world peace isn't achieved in forcing non-religion either. Religion that is used wrongly is the problem, but what do you think about Satanists who sacrifice infants? They believe they do have a right to do that regardless of what you think about them and they are doing that within the frame of their religion.

But let's ask ourselves, when Creationism was taught in schools, what was the state of education in those days? Creationism from the Christian perspective teaches respect for life. Those who say it does not, clearly does not have and understanding of Christianity. Islam does not teach respect for life.

But look at the state of education under evolution, it didn't get better, it got worse.

Should women be jailed for contreption?

Do you know the purpose of Planned Parenthood from the beginning of that movement? Margaret Sanger, in her book Breeding Of The Thoroughbred stated that those particular groups within our society should be forcibly sterilized so they may not have children. Included in that list, Jews, Blacks, Hispanics, Poor Whites, and the Developmentally Disabled. The laws arising out of that, including the "One Drop Law" and William Plecker's Racial Purity laws led to Jim Crow and then Eugenics that found its way to Adolph Hitler. And up until the 1970s, young black women and Native American women were sterilized under those laws, while the whole time Planned Parenthood was setting itself up as the savior of women through contraception.

It's not that I disagree with contraception, but I have to go by what the foundation was set upon and Planned Parenthood set itself upon racism, as Margaret Sanger was racist and vocal about it.

Should women who do not use contraception be jailed? Is that working in China? They passed laws that dictated one child per family and every girl born was in danger. Contraception should be a choice.



posted on Nov, 8 2013 @ 07:28 AM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Yes. Greed, selfishness, abuse, corruption, deception, and exploitation of people, animals, and the Earth.



posted on Nov, 8 2013 @ 07:31 AM
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AbleEndangered
I would argue or concur that Shariah Law is the Exact same as Mosaic Law. Moses...


What is Mosaic law?

Are you referring to the 10 Commandments or the 635 Laws of Moses that include kosher diets? The last time I looked, there weren't any Jews forcing kosher onto the rest of us.

Having read much about Sharia and Islam, not only from the Qu'ran, the Hadiths, the Sunna and speaking with many Muslims, I can only arrive at the conclusion that Sharia is not Mosaic and does not depend upon the 10 commandments.

Would you prefer to have an halal diet under Sharia? Would you prefer that you may not drink alcohol, under Sharia?

I suggest a little research into Sharia beyond the MSM would help. But all Fatwas are Sharia based, the Sharia is Qu'ranic based. This is what they acknowledge.

If you don't mind, I have downloaded a copy of Sharia law, called Ftiq, it is jurisprudence of Islamic law and will use that to quote from on my posts. People don't want to do this, but it is necessary to know what they are thinking.

We can compare side by side if we wish, it might be beneficial to do so.



posted on Nov, 8 2013 @ 07:38 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Wildtimes

I tried not to derail your thread. Sometimes it becomes difficult for some to extricate and separate faith systems. I have downloaded a copy of Sharia law from allah.com and can use that in pointing out what Sharia says. I am not a lawyer, I can only tell you what it says, but all laws are interpreted in some way, according to the case at hand, even American Constitution jurisprudence laws.

Disclaimer : WarminIndy does not interpret or give legal advice, that is illegal.

I can only tell you what it says. But did you know that Deerborn, Michigan is now Sharia law based? Sharia has been adopted above the Constitution in Deerborn and you can go there in the middle of the day and have to hear the imam's call to prayer sounding over the city streets. But one is expected to stop and pray. You don't have to stop and pray when you hear the church bells ringing.



posted on Nov, 8 2013 @ 07:47 AM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 



Do you feel the same way against African Americans? If not, why? Is it okay to be prejudice against all Christians, but not against all African Americans or even all whites? Where do you make the distinction between hatred and simply calling out those who choose to steal, kill and destroy? Many Americans are Fat. Are you fat because you are an American?

What are you talking about?

Do I feel what "same way against" African Americans? Where did you extract from this thread that I am prejudiced against all Christians? That's not the case. I am negative about the "shame and worthlessness" projected onto people, either by words, or by action. I don't understand what "distinction" you think I am making.

Yes, I call out those who choose to steal, kill and destroy, and that includes people who kill and destroy the self-esteem, respect, and vaildation that all human beings deserve and have a right to. Anyone who harms others either financially, emotionally, physically, spiritually, or psychologically needs to be called out.

I'm not fat.

I don't get your point, Ed. Sorry.



posted on Nov, 8 2013 @ 07:50 AM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 



If you don't mind, I have downloaded a copy of Sharia law, called Ftiq, it is jurisprudence of Islamic law and will use that to quote from on my posts. People don't want to do this, but it is necessary to know what they are thinking.

We can compare side by side if we wish, it might be beneficial to do so.

That is a FANTASTIC suggestion. I look forward to it. As much as I've spent the last year trying to learn more about Islam, I still have lots of questions about it. You are a very well-credentialed teacher, Indy.. Thank you for lending your wisdom and accumulated knowledge to us. That's the thing that keeps me here - learning, sharing, and growing.



posted on Nov, 8 2013 @ 07:59 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


I will agree, wildtimes is not prejudiced against me.

But then I don't ascribe to fanatical or crazy Christianity, which to me was manipulated by evil people, turning many people into lunatics. True Christianity and Christianity are different in mentality and thought processes and worldviews.

There was a time when racism was preached in churches, anti-Semitism was the first. Even the so-called "church fathers" preached anti-Semitism, and I dislike that very much. But even before and after the Civil War, racism was preached from the pulpits.

The modern KKK was founded by a Methodist preacher. The KKK claims to be Christian, I don't know their Christianity, it seems to be a god of their imagination they worship or claim to worship.

Wildtimes, when I was a radio announcer on a Christian station in North Carolina, I pronounced on air that the KKK was not Christian, that they were a bunch of sheet wearing hate mongers that were cowards and did not know Jesus Christ. I didn't work much longer there. They had called the radio station and told them if they didn't get rid of me, the station would lose financial support.

But I did have chutzpah to speak out against it. And that's what most Christians should be doing. My next door neighbor told me they were going to have a Klan rally in their yard, I told my then husband to hang our Israeli flag outside. I can't stop them legally from holding a rally, they get around those laws, and if they have it in their yard, what can I do other than making my statement against it? That Klan threatened to kill us. So I have faced it in my life just how dangerous this can be.

But I plainly stated on-air that it was not Christian, that it did not represent Christianity and that they should be ashamed of themselves for promoting this vile worldview. But I was not silent either.



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