How Shariah, an Intended Compass for Peace, Became a Tool of Oppression

reply to post by logical7


Cool. So, carry on then. I think you're wearing blinders, prejudiced against the "West". That excerpt very well could have been taken FROM YOUR POSTS defending Islam.

But, I knew you wouldn't read it. I've put more effort into learning about Islam over the past year than in any other subject. Independently, and with input and feedback from ATS members. So far, you haven't done a thing to change my views of it.

You are still bent on placing blame elsewhere than on Muslims who are killing each other. That's on you.
I, on the other hand, have acknowledged the points you've made, and addressed them. You continue to sweep it under the rug - I already HAVE studied the history of Islam, from various sources, without asking you "what should I watch or read?" -- and the things I've learned shore up the fact that Islam has a violent history.

You don't care what I think, I got it. Thanks for your time.

As for whether or not you are an Islamist - that's between you and your God, but I have my suspicions, yes. I will only say that your attitude reflects blaming OTHERS for the horrors perpetrated by your OWN PEOPLE. Which is what that essay says, EXACTLY. You don't want to own it? Fine. Just be aware that the words you use and the arguments you make are well-established deflections and bias-confirmations.

It is not the USA's fault that Muslims can't get along with each other and are living in backwards, oppressive societies. Their heyday was back in the 'dark ages' after having conquered surrounding areas. I know this to be true. I am aware of the beauty, the science, the philosophy, the accomplishments of those "middle ages" Muslims.

Unfortunately, it all collapsed, like a flan in a cupboard. You blame the Crusades; the Crusades blamed the Ottomans. Both are equally responsible for slaughter and upheaval. This equals: religion is abused by powermongers. The Crusades were a "payback" or "blowback" just like you are claiming the radical Islamists are doing. Are ANY of them justified? No, not in today's world, they are not.

Neither is corporate greed or exploitation. Not justified. But go ahead, cling to your white-washed sugar-coated fantasy of what Islam is, and has been, since halfway through Mohammed's "career." Christianity is every bit as bad about straying from the words of Jesus - trouble is, Jesus didn't raise an army and wipe out entire cities just because he got pissed off at being rejected.

Muhammed was an outcast. So was Jesus. Both of their lives impacted - and STILL are impacting - billions of people, for thousands and thousands of years after their deaths - and the corruption running amok today is a disgrace to the Abrahamic religions as a whole. All three of them. Trouble.

And that tells me: Something is wrong with them.

reply to post by wildtimes

You all know how you are,
by now, and if you still don't, then you
are beyond any sort of diplomatic,
resolution-seeking outreach. All I can do is point it out, and then I'm accused
of "bitching."

Oh i see, so you are trying to show muslims how brain-washed/indoctrinated we are and so we should thank you for reaching out for a diplomatic solution and for opening our eyes to what we are and what our religion really is OH! thanks a lot from freeing me from the shackles of my religion and showing me how great your way is! How can we ever fully thank you!!!

reply to post by logical7

OH! thanks a lot from freeing me from the shackles of my religion and showing me how great your way is! How can we ever fully thank you!!!

Aw, no thanks are necessary. I'm just doing the job I was put on Earth to do. You're welcome, and it was a particularly difficult task, especially with you.

But, if you really want to try to fully thank me:

stop blaming others, stop justifying brutality, and stop the killing. That's how you can thank me.



My work is done here. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have other topics to research. This one got tiresome some months ago.

....Is the cat fight over now? Hmm. Well, looks like this one was a bust. Better luck next time, fellas.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Well, looks like this one was a bust.

In what way was it a bust?

I'm just leaving the arena. If it wasn't such a tragic mess, it would be boring. I gave it my best effort.

reply to post by logical7



People blindly assume "terrorists" can only have muslim names.

There are governments run by people with Christian and Jewish names who terrorize innocent civilians and cause mass destruction.... and are exempt from labelled "terrorists", (in their own media programming, of course.)

In other words, those who live in glass houses....

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

People blindly assume "terrorists" can only have muslim names.

There are governments run by people with Christian and Jewish names who terrorize innocent civilians and cause mass destruction.... and are exempt from labelled "terrorists", (in their own media programming, of course.)

Hogwash.

You'd do well to learn a new tactic. "Terrorists" would also refer to abusive spouses, brutal parents, church leaders who threaten people with hell, masked gunmen in convenience stores, armed intruders into homes, abductors, teens with weapons in schools, the Unabomber, snipers in cities, Glenn Beck, Alex Jones, etc.

Your post above? What a load of crap.

reply to post by wildtimes


(For the better understanding of the thread participants and audience, I am an ex Islamic Fundamentalist.)





May Peace and Happiness be upon you wildtimes.

Your suspicions and gut-feelings about Islam are true, in my humble opinion. I greatly applaud you for continuing your research and study, instead of blindly-following propaganda and ignorant biases.

I hope that my unique position, as one who abandoned Islam, will enrich the various view-points found within this thread.




1)

First and foremost, the violence, intolerance, hate, and "conquer or convert" mentality found within the hearts/minds of some Muslims stems directly from the Qur'an and Islam's own foundational period (Muhammad's lifetime).

The Qur'an and Muhammad's Sunnah and Ahadith are jam-packed full of wonderful examples of tolerance, freedom, compassion, and loving righteousness.

However, as Muhammad's military steadily increased in soldiers, cavalry, weapons, supplies, wealth, and battle-hardened experience,... so too did Islam's intolerance and hate increase.

The end-period of Muhammad's life is overwhelmingly exemplified by unprovoked and preemptive attacks against non-Muslims. Muhammad's end-period of life was an agenda of conquest and conversion.

Additionally, the end-period verses to be revealed by Allah set the foundation for jihad, war, subjugation, conquest, and conversion.

According to the historic record of Muhammad's words, actions, and orders,... coupled with the Qur'anic revelations,.... historic chronology easily illustrates Islam's beginnings of Peace and its progression towards suffering.




2)

Just as some followers of all religions are guilty of ignorance or lethargy in personal research/study,... so too are some Muslims guilty of the failure to learn and understand their own religion. They blindly follow and believe the fallacies of others in their community/family (pack-mentality),.... or blindly follow the rantings of hate-mongering propaganda agendists who hold lofty titles such as Imam, Sheikh, Mufti, Guru, etc.

"The others believe it, it must be true."
"A religious authority figure said it, it must be true."



3)

Islamic End-Times prophecies are littered with attitudes of Muslims versus non-Muslims and a divinely-ordained global jihad to establish Islam as Earth's ultimate and all-encompassing religion.

Even in anticipating the End-Times of Islam, Muslims are conditioned with the "Us versus Them" mentality, and the expectation of global jihad.



4)

In full context, out of context, and according to limited and specific context,.... the Qur'an contains verse after verse belittling Jews, Christians, and non-believers. The Qur'an has an overwhelming stench of superiority complex which stimulates the Ego of its followers against non-Muslims.

So much does the stench of illusionary supremacy permeate Islam, that Muslims have been instructed by Muhammad to not return a greeting of Peace (Assalamu alaikum) to a non-Muslim. If a non-Muslim says, "May Peace be upon you," a Muslim is taught to only give a half-greeting of "and to you / same to you", purposefully withholding the word "Peace".

The "Religion of Peace" instructs its followers to not return a greeting of peace to non-Muslims. How much more obvious can it be where Islam's hate, intolerance, and violence comes from? It comes from its own very core.

reply to post by wildtimes

And then think about the horrors done in the name of "Christ" based on the distortion of his story, his teachings, and the Bible itself.

Firstly, Christianity shares a common foundation with the Israelite scriptures, prophets, and psalms. And according to such, we find an ideology of racial-religious superiority complex coupled with the genocide of the Canaanite inhabitants. "God's chosen people" instructed to ethnically cleanse and conquer the land of Canaan.

Secondly, for many generations, illiteracy and lack of education/knowledge was widespread. Also, before the advent of modern printing, hand-scribed manuscripts were reserved for the wealthy and affluent. Additionally, the Bible was recited to the people in Latin, which was a far cry from many languages and dialects of later Christians.

The pre-established foundation of racial-religious supremacy, coupled with a Holy Book which was beyond the availability and language of its followers lead to the many sufferings to be inflicted by Christians onto non-believers and heretics.



Knowledge, education, and personal inquiry into religion eventually loosened the strangle-hold of agendist church leaders.

Can the same be done with Islam? I'm not too sure, because Islam specifically warns against changing the religion, and spells out the disbelief and hypocrisy of only believing in parts of the Qur'an while rejecting some parts. It's a take it or leave it religion, without much room for progress or compromise.

reply to post by Sahabi

Knowledge, education, and personal
inquiry into religion eventually
loosened the strangle-hold of
agendist church leaders. Can the same be done with Islam?

NO, because you are wishing that islam goes the same way as christianity without considering that both had their unique history. Muslims don't have a problem with the rules and prohibitions in Islam. No matter how much people from "outside" desire the same fate for Islam as they saw Christianity suffer (just because it validates their way of life)

I actually see a revival of Islam around me and even globally especially in Western countries. More men keeping beard and more women choosing hijab.
Very importantly there is no oppressive centralised institution that would make muslims want to overthrow it rather muslims feel that going back to their religion is the best way to solve the problems affecting them.

reply to post by logical7

Very importantly there is no oppressive centralised institution that would make muslims want to overthrow it rather muslims feel that going back to their religion is the best way to solve the problems affecting them.

The strangle-hold of Islam, founded by a warrior and emerging though CONQUEST was an overthrowing of the established society. It started with tribal warfare, pride, control, and revenge, and that's still what it is about. You are implying that (aside from thinking you are a mind-reader and know what others are 'wishing for') Muhammed wasn't an "agendist"?

Please.

"Going back to their religion is the best way to solve the problems" but everyone can decide for themselves which interpretation they want to 'exploit' for their personal gain.... because there IS no unified premise, it is a faulty system. Obviously. Islam wants to put a strangle-hold on THE ENTIRE WORLD, and uses "hell" as the threat until one breaks the rules, then uses barbaric violence as the method of delivery.

Sick.

Sahabi said: "without much room for progress or compromise." And again, he is spot on.

It really is frightening to me that you are so entrenched that you can't comprehend how down-trodden you are, or how hateful and stubborn you are. You and many others.

reply to post by logical7

Muslims don't have a problem with the rules and prohibitions in Islam.

Well, that's not true at all. Unless you want to make an exception for Malala. Right? Except for ALL THE WOMEN in Saudi Arabia who aren't allowed to drive. Right?

Oh, wait. Except for the teenagers who fall in love and want to behold their beloved. Or change their clothes on the way to school, only to later be killed by their parents? Or their brother, when caught with their boyfriend? Or their 'husband' who is a smelly old man 40-years their senior? Or the Taliban because they want to go to school?

You are saying those girls and women 'don't have a problem with the rules and prohibitions'?

Ridiculous. What a chauvinistic and misogynistic way of thinking that is. I swear, logical7, you have the compassion of a tick, and the charisma of a freight train. Yikes.

ETA: You like the rules and prohibitions because YOU NEED THEM in order to behave, to keep yourself under control, otherwise you'd be out of control entirely. You can't trust yourself to look at a woman's skin and not rape her... and you claim that women WANT to wear the burqa, to "protect themselves from lecherous men". Actually, I have learned that they dressed that way even BEFORE Muhammed, because they were desert nomads, and the cloth protected them from sun, wind, and sand.. There is no need for a burqa in England, or France, nor is it appropriate dress for ANY OTHER CLIMATE than the deadly desert. A full-face burqa in the USA would draw attention because it is impossible to know what or who is underneath, and it is considered THREATENING. And you can't tell me that men aren't dressing in them, in disguise, as a means to get into places where women and children are, so they can rape/behead/kill them.

Again, sick.

You ALSO like the 'rules and prohibitions' because they give you control over women. Who, naturally, also can not be trusted to behave appropriately without them.

reply to post by Sahabi

Islamic End-Times prophecies are littered with attitudes of Muslims versus non-Muslims and a divinely-ordained global jihad to establish Islam as Earth's ultimate and all-encompassing religion.

Islamic end times prophecies mainly revolve around the final battles of good vs evil... i.e - the forces of the Mahdi and Jesus vs the forces of the Dajjal. Its similar to the prophecies in the Bible about Jesus and the rider on the white horse (Mahdi?) and their forces fighting those of the anti-christ. Even in the Bible, we read that those who follow the anti-christ are destroyed. Does it mean the Bible has ordained Christianity to be the Earth's ultimate and all-encompassing religion? Whats good for the goose.....

In full context, out of context, and according to limited and specific context,.... the Qur'an contains verse after verse belittling Jews, Christians, and non-believers. The Qur'an has an overwhelming stench of superiority complex which stimulates the Ego of its followers against non-Muslims.

Jews and the Christians are chastised in the Koran for theological reasons... they are also chastised in the Bible for theological reasons. But lets just sweep that detail under the carpet.
From a theological perspective, the Koran also contains verses declaring the Jews and Christians as people of the book. The Koran also states that the Torah and the Injeel were scriptures sent by Allah.

logical7
I actually see a revival of Islam around me and even globally especially in Western countries. More men keeping beard and more women choosing hijab.

How sad.

muslims feel that going back to their religion is the best way to solve the problems affecting them.

And yet, the exact opposite is what would really help them. Ditch the fundamentalist religions ... all of them. Rule by secular law. THAT is how peace and justice are better found. It's not perfect, but it's MUCH more just than religious rule of law.

reply to post by logical7

sk0rpi0n : People blindly assume "terrorists" can only have muslim names. There are governments run by people with Christian and Jewish names who terrorize innocent civilians and cause mass destruction.... and are exempt from labelled "terrorists", (in their own media programming, of course.)

Hogwash. .

At least make an attempt explaining why you think that way.
Do you think civilians who lost families by American bombs and drones didn't feel terrorized? Do you suppose survivors just crawled out of their flattened homes and went about their day?

Your post above? What a load of crap.

I feel the same way about most of your posts in this forum.

@ OP,

YOU can hold on to your opinions about Shariah.

However, educated minds within the US supreme court have honored Mohammad one of the greatest law givers in human history... that too way back in 1935!

The US supreme court friezes includes Mohammad among many other lawgivers of the ancient world.

wiki

reply to post by wildtimes

The strangle-hold of Islam, founded
by a warrior and emerging though
CONQUEST was an overthrowing of the
established society.

Oh yes an established society which had many of the vices that are now seen in your society. Hmm.. Interesting parallel!!
Founded by a warrior?? Hmm.. That warrior fought in a battle for the 1st time after the age of 50!! Maybe your government should also recruit above 50 men as soldiers and they may be more successful in having at least one decisive win!

Muhammed wasn't an
"agendist"? Please.

Muhammad pbuh was a prophet who had a mission to spread the message of pure monotheism and establish a society on the God given laws and he suceeded Grandly( as attested by learned historians) when he managed to convert warring tribes wrapped in ignorance and superstitions into a powerful, united and just society within two decades.

So yes muslims need to go back to Islam and Qur'an to again end their differences and become one united muslim ummah.
I don't see that you would disagree to it if that would stop the blood shed and war in ME.

It really is frightening to me that you
are so entrenched that you can't
comprehend how down-trodden you
are, or how hateful and stubborn you
are. You and many others.

stubborn in not buying your way of thinking and life? YES ofcourse, you see, It a duty of me to not buy things that are baseless conjenctures.

You do show how judgemental you are although you do mostly manage to hide it with a thick layer of honeyed diplomacy.
I don't have to agree to your opinions and neither you have to accept my views. If you feel frustated if you fail to change people's views and opinion then you are the agendist.
I don't care to change anybody's view, I am just presenting mine period.

reply to post by wildtimes

Hey Wildtimes!

Just wanted to chime in with the fact that your examples had nothing to do with Islam (and also, that Malala is a brave little girl, who is also a DEVOUT MUSLIM, and whose motivation for education is based off Islam, a little fact that lots who praise her seem to skip out on).

reply to post by FlyersFan


FF, here's a very from the Qur'an for you
Fain would they extinguish Allah's
light with their mouths, but Allah will
not allow but that His light should be
perfected, even though the
Unbelievers may detest (it).
so, do you agree to the general meaning of the above ayah?
Plz. Don't go into the "Allah is not GOD" debate, its boring and I know your opinion.
Thats why i am asking generally.

Simply said, things would happen as God planned them. If God wants pure monotheism then it would be that way. If God wants the pagan way then it would be that way.

reply to post by babloyi


Thanks! You just put the words about Malala that were also my thoughts.
People see or wish that Malala standing up to taliban as Malala standing up against Islam which is a classic example of the fact that people see what they want to see rather than whats actually there!