Vatican ban on Medjugorje public appearances in USA raises brows

It is not a "do or die" as someone may imagine. You are either with the pope, or you are not catholic. Wrong!

Brazil is the example. The biggest catholic country in the world lost 20% of its catholic population in some 20 years. I don't remember exactly but that makes roughly 2, 000,000 (give or take) faithful a year who walked out to other congregations. Including the Brazilian national church that has apostolic succession. I guess they all consider themselves at least half catholics if not the REAL catholics.

Rome plays with fire playing with Medjugorje and testing patience of pastors and laymen. It is not enough what was done.

If it was a mistake, until now pope Francis should have taken the initiative and put an end of that absurd. Does he realize the CDF trespassed into another country's territory to define who will meet with whom? It seems however it is he who stays behind scene. Let he prove it is not he! It is a test for him too. Let he prove he is the reformist he said to be. Let he prove the cardinals'votes on that 12–13 March 2013 en.wikipedia.org... weren't cast in vain. Because we all know there were other candidates. We all know they were not less skillful, definitely more known to the world. We now know that then cardinal Bergoglio was virtually granted papacy by cardinal Oulett of Canada when the latter resigned his votes in favor of the former. So far so good. But there are already 8 months since then and there are no signs of anything better.

What is the difference until now except for a worse situation and a clock that is ticking? Until the Spring may be, the Synod? Forget about that! In the Spring the world may be totally different from now.

If pope Francis is going in the same mode as of today, he will enter into bigger problems with bishops' conferences over a number of sexual and other issues. No Synod "to obey" another inquisitor's proposal, but early resignation may be the logical outcome. I don't wish him so. It is he together with his aides (both new and old) that make what they make. Nobody ordered them to write that damned letter on Medjugorje! Nobody asked the cardinals to write the NWO proposal! The sex scandal wasn't the only thing that made Benedict resign. There is a precedent. I don't wish it happen. At least because Malachi doesn't have another number to fill in.

If the status quo survives somehow to the Spring Synod, there will be groupings of bishops much like on the concave, only in larger numbers. There will be agendas that are, frankly, quite far from each other. There will be results that not everyone will be happy of. Above all, the Vatican leading role will be offered as it happened on Vatican 2. Cardinal Maradiaga may do exactly that with his team of cardinals. We are kept totally in dark, "WE THE CHURCH". Before the synod (it doesn't have appointed date as far as I know), the pope will make new cardinals, but will ask the reformist group of 8 who should be new cardinals. So far so good.

What will be the real decisions that will make the difference? It will be a year or more after the papal election. What will prove to the common believer that something good is being done? Or all will remain declarations, homilies and exhortations that nobody really understands?

I doubt it. There are enough smart bishops worldwide who would push for a faster change of the status quo. For one thing. They want it more than the faithful. Because they are insiders and know of much bigger problems than we could imagine. They know why they (cardinals) elected Francis in first place. And if it doesn't work, sure there are ways as those used in Benedict's resignation. But let it work! Let the work be done finally! The whole world awaits Rome. Far not about Medjugorje but about many other things.

The extraterrestrials are not the least, they might be the first. If you think it is insane please check internet. There is no more time to lose. It is not me who claim that or that. Rome does not have the luxury of time, neither the wider world. And they know that very well, much better than my observations.

I said "Spring synod" but it could well be "Fall synod". The pace is very slow. 2014 is set as another miracle year that Medjugorje should be ruled upon, that Synod will decide everything...In fact if the current slow pace continues, nothing of the sort will be done. We only know Maradiaga's group is doing something. Nobody sends a word in what direction it is working. OK they are responsible to the pope. Let me ask then, did Maradiaga know of the Medjugorje letter? he is fervent devotee of Medjugorje and erected a cross-replica in Honduras. Who decides the church' deals that are not only church's? Is it Francis or is it someone else. The inquisitor is appointed by Benedict as most of the staff. There were reports of adultery. Should the world listen to moral rulings of people who themselves are caught up in adultery, although not with minors? Why no more resignations until now, of that old guard that should be happy if allowed to step down in honor and retire in luxury that most of the faithful never dreamed of? After months of waiting the secretary of state was changed. Bertone would love to stay a year more. Who does Rome cheat except for itself? The world sees that. If I can realize it, many more people who are insiders, such as the bishops, have realized it on the 3rd month, not on the 8th.

Is it the rapture that all wait for? Is it the catacysm if any? Is it any other major event? And they will fix the church according to what happens later.

If it is the rapture (in that scenario) they will fix the church according to the needs of the left behinders, 90% chipped.

if it is the cataclysm, perhaps they hope to be among the saved ones while billions will die. Then they will build a chuch underground, those same people.

If it is nothing of the above, then let they say what they are doing. Until now nothing is put on the table. Nothing except the Medjugorje strike, the nuns' strike and the German bishops' "wait and see".

Maria Divine Mercy said sometime ago that the Second part of the Trib, the Great Trib starts on 1/1/2013.
Similarly said anothe rIrish catholic seer, Joe Coleman. The two are not connected whatsoever.

As of today, i can't say the antichrist has reigned. He should be manifested by the Second half of the Trib and that is not a fact as of now.

Still, the waiting mode of church AND society remembers someone awaiting/ed travel, or may be awaiting the traveling people to be gone. Be they the raptured people, or be they the departed people in the mega cataclysm. Something is awaited for, and therefore nothing happened in 2012, 13.

As you see even the nice Raptors wait the humanity to be ready to become their friends (ref. Kerry Cassidy interview).

I'd like they never sent that damned letter bombshell and never pushed for those questions to be discussed. But they did. So let they bear consequences. Sometimes I think "we the people" or "we the church" will deal easier with strangers as strange as reptilians (not necessary Trex) than with those appointed to serve us. Thanks God we are still alive despite their care!

Frankly speaking, besides all other problems on earth, the bishops should have been concerned about the question who of them will be found on the rescue spaceships, or may be underground, and who actually will continue the apostolic succession of what Jesus established 1980 years ago, to the era "beyond earth". However insane that may sound to some, that is a question that will rise after we board the rescue ships, or being deep underground. Neither of them will have today's structure of churches. Although the two routes seem similar they are not. But I will not talk on that.

Quarrels who is first here on earth and who may ban whom may disappear as easily as the first nukes start falling. Or the first meteorites. Whichever comes first. Then the wiser virgins win. Not the stupid virgins, if we assume they still have place in a non-virginal bride-church.

I hoped pope Francis would tackle similar questions of global nature. Until now he did not. 2012 came and pass but the knowledge remained in the wiser part of the population. Open H-channel at least. Not NWO agendas as proposed by Benedict, but massive rescue effort for going to the new world should be started asap.

Unless we are talking of what the previous posts contain, i.e. waiting until the rapture takes "the fools" and then introducing on fast speed the NWO of the antichrist. In an enclosed space-time continuum that may continue forever closed and looped within itself, i.e. to the time limits of the Universe set by God alone. Then only Jesus would come (1000 years before that moment). It is as simple, by invention of the different speed of time on earth and beyond earth, something done by physics long ago in 20th century. We all know it "works in practice" because it works over there in space and even here on earth in constructions like CERN. Most of us never tried to understand it. Actually you don't have to understand it, you have to know it.

The conclusion is, the longer existence of the Universe, an "era of peace" over there not down here, perfectly fits with a very short duration of Great Trib on Earth if it is encapsulated in such a curved space-time region (whatever the exact wording).

In other words, the world marches straight into the lapse of the dragon, beast and antichrist and shows it so demonstratively that no one would believe such clearly shown reality. I can't name anyone, they will show up at their appointed time, only after the rapture.

Where are YOU in this picture, on which side? You the bishops as well?

perhaps as we speak the angels make notes of those bishops who will ultimately be counted worthy to be saved together with the raptured people. Depending on their deeds and positions. I assume there still will be the role of bishops in post earth era because it is not a protestant rapture to final heaven, it is transport to new earth as 2PETER speaks of. But I might be wrong for many things including this one.

A third way the status quo will be eliminated

The extra terrestrials come and fix the things on earth without the need to move out.

You will call that scenario the antichrist scenario. To be the antichrist scenario there should be a rapture and a number of things we don't have yet. It could be so.

We cannot rule out blindly that a third way could occur. One man had visions about it. His name is John XXIII. Nowhere in the whole Bible is set date for Jesus' second coming. And everywhere in the whole Bible angels come and go. If they do that again, who are we to judge.

Actually that reality started to be manifested in 2000-1 and intensified in 2009 to reach the point you can get that kind of info upon turning your TV on a select channel. Never before in history secrets kept for centuries with cost of many lives have been revealed to public. A public that doesn't care. There is a purpose to reveal all those secrets (call them illuminati if you will). One of the persons who did that inside the catholic church was Benedict XVI. He promoted the "heretic" book of Enoch.

I don't know which of the three ways will develop in the real world:

1. planetary cataclysm with few saved on spaceships/underground
2. rapture followed by Great Trib, antichrist, and Second Coming of Jesus
3. extra - terrestrials come and renew the face of the earth for a long time before the actual End times

May be there are others, I don't know. One is sure the INFORMATION status quo and taboo to speak or hear such kind of things was broken somewhere between 2001 - 2009. 2009 is notorious for the Norway spiral and the expected Obama announcement of alien life, incl. live broadcast with alien beings. It didn't happen but made it possible the people to hear about it and to spread the news. Including sites like TLDM.org

I wonder about the deepest secrets in each apparition that has them, aren't they exactly about that, and not about things we are well informed of, like armageddon or ww3. Or all of that included may be. One of the problems is the people do not care anymore, after one-two-three or more missed dates. Both in apparitions and in secular predictions. If there were 1000 people to care in each mega city perhaps each city would be spared. Abraham bargained that number to be only 10 for Sodom.

While I can't provide a link for John 23 visions of Virgin Mary, I clearly remember it was published online some years ago in a site about all kinds of visionaries (not only catholic). What I can say is in essence he saw or have been told by the Virgin that alien beings will come to clean up the earth after a big (nuclear) war and the process will continue several years (not instantaneously as some nowadays contactees say). Sorry this is all for now, perhaps those who have the source book could provide more info if they appear to read here. Sure there are people who know exactly what John 23 saw, heard and wrote down. Perhaps that made his mind for a number of issues discussed.

I wonder how is possible the biggest believers to stuck to Fatima and not to move an inch in what could be possibly said as secrets, there and in Akita also. We have a nun completely cut off in Akita after her approved apparitions. Sr Agnes Sasagawa is still alive and could possibly speak if the church authorities ask her to do so. I haven't heard of her death so far. We are in absurd world, with people doing absurd decisions, and masses that prefer absurdity to continue around themselves instead to fix their lives. As if we are already on an alien planet where the sun's color is red and the ground glows in the night. I really hope someone somewhere to make something about all that until it is not irreversibly late. Then the saved people will not type "good bye letter" rather will want to forget the nightmares on planet earth ASAP. Perhaps God will grant them that grace.

I just provided the text of alleged messages of John 23 in the thread "Churches..." www.abovetopsecret.com... in Conspiracy in religion. I think it belongs that that thread, not to this one.

colbe

Talking out of two, three sides of your mouth, Satan does the same. Obvious mock of the faith, trying to sell your version of whatever...Protestantism, New Age, demonic ET nonsense.

I didn't answer that so far or did I? If I talk with two, three mouths (probably 2-3 heads?) how many mouths does the RCC headquarter talk with? John Paul II said Medjugorje is fulfillment of Fatima. Let alone his quotes about Fatima itself that are so controversial to 2000 official release as if we speak of 2 completely different secrets. How many mouths does RCC speak today when speaking of change it enforces laws inherited back from centuries when it ruled over kings? Is this the new course of pope Francis? Let it not be so!!!!!! .


It is not "obvious mock of the faith". It is obvious mock by RCC official to the millions of faithful by making them looking like insane children. Don't they realize the people are thinking individuals today?

I don't believe in New Age.

If you demonzie ALL ET you will do the biggest mistake in your life. Because God cannot help you out of here unless you trust His Holy Angels. Remember Lot and his daughters, and their bridegrooms who didn't believe God's messenger and remained in Sodom when fire fell upon them. Jesus warned us it will be just the same, and he specifically mentioned Lot's wife.

What is exactly the SATANIC that you found in my posts? Would you please be more precise and quote the satanic words that come out of my mouths? Because I feel I am rather persecuted for daring to question a STUPID order of a STUPID Vatican official, to say the least. Is this questioning the Satanic thing? Or may be the brief walk in history I made? Weren't those events really taking place back in past centuries, or we start rewriting history? Who is afraid of history lessons except the one who wants to repeat it. I didn't hear from the RCC not even from John Paul II that they clear people like Giordano Bruno and fra Savonarola. It is not that hard to say a word of repentance, for the sake of generations that come. As John Paul said about Galileo. This is a historical weight that pulls down the RCC as we speak. Perhaps RCC will never make it to the stars pointed by Giordano Bruno. Others will be there instead, other churches.

was Ivan banned because of this message later retracted back by his PR in USA?
read the story here miracle-witness.blogspot.com...

alleged message later "cancelled". Does it happen in supernatural? Yes it does happen in MEDJUGORJE to cancel message or to exchange it with much milder one. It happened many times.

January 24, 2012 07:55:29 HNE
Urgent message from Our Lady to Ivan:
The war is very near.
Urgent to all.
To Ivan of Medjugorje:

The war in the Middle East will become serious and will spread throughout the world. To stop it, the entire world must pray every minute and fast (soon?). The priests must open the doors of their churches and invite the people to pray the rosary and pray intensely. Pray, pray, pray.

reply to post by 2012newstart

The bottom line is that for 32 years, millions, may be a hundred millions catholic pilgrims made their way to Medjugorje to venerate the Madonna.

That's what we call old fashioned idolatry. It's a statue quit praying to the damned thing, quit worshipping it, quit venerating it, don't even look at it.

The papacy should forbid such things, Maryam is as dead as the Apostles.

lonewolf19792000
reply to post by 2012newstart

 

The bottom line is that for 32 years, millions, may be a hundred millions catholic pilgrims made their way to Medjugorje to venerate the Madonna.

That's what we call old fashioned idolatry. It's a statue quit praying to the damned thing, quit worshipping it, quit venerating it, don't even look at it.

The papacy should forbid such things, Maryam is as dead as the Apostles.

That's what we Catholics call old fashioned ignorance. A statue is a piece of painted plaster or carved rock. Nothing else.

Veneration of Mary is not worship. That's why we call it veneration and not worship....

Mary is best viewed as a supernatural evangelist. She only wishes to convert people into a deeper level of faith. One does not need Mary for salvation, but like your local pastor, priest or whatever you call your church leader she is there to give advice and guidance on spiritual matters.

Because she is not of this mortal realm we communicate with her a little differently that's all. After all, what is prayer of it is not communication with heaven? And who said that it is only God listening and responding up there?

lonewolf19792000
That's what we call old fashioned idolatry. It's a statue quit praying to the damned thing, quit worshipping it, quit venerating it, don't even look at it.

OH STOP IT. Catholics do NOT worship Mary and they don't worship statues.
Stop reading Jack Chick tracts. Unplug from whatever fundamentalist idiot preacher
is pumping you full of such erroneous beliefs about others.

Get the facts. Straight from the source. Read the Catechism.
Learn what Catholics really believe.
And the 'biggie' .... Worship belongs to God alone.

I agree with the above two posts almost fully.

reply to post by FlyersFan


And might I add, that during my own personal Medjugorje experience Mary spoke a few words to me that changed my life and proves that she is on the side of God.

Those words that I will never forget are "My child, you are loved. Turn to my son Jesus, for he is the way, the truth and the light"

Pretty odd thing for a demon posing as a benevolent fugue to say don't you think?

After all, there is only one Jesus out there is there not?

reply to post by markosity1973


Unless I missed something somewhere, Resurrection hasn't occurred yet so I don't know how it is you're communicating with a dead woman, except to say that ain't Maryam. At least it ain't the human mother of Yeshua, but something that wants you to worship a man whose name means "Earth Pig" instead of "IEUE is salvation".

reply to post by lonewolf19792000




Oh dear ,

Obviously you did miss the memo on this one.....

Catholic Dogma states that Mary, the mother of Christ, the Son of the eternal God of the Jews, YHWH, the great I am, Jehovah or what ever other variant of the name he gave Moses you wish to call him did not in fact die.

She was taken into heaven just like Jesus and Elijah before that. So there is a precedent for this happening and it must be remembered that when the new testament was formalised by the Nicean council, a lot of stuff was deleted out. A good example of this is Mary Magdelan, the ultimate bad girl turned good role model and a very big figure in the early church was completely shunned because she is female and the men did not like the idea of a girl being popular....

You and your fundie friends are also guilty of putting God in a little box. You are correct that in our timeline Judgement day has not yet come to pass, but God (whom created the earth, the universe and everything within it) lives outside the laws of space and time. That is how miracles occur (he temporarily suspends the laws of nature to carry out his will) This also means that from our perspective he and all those within the kingdom of heaven are both eternal and time travellers. i.e how does God predict the future in the book of revelation? He has already seen it and then relayed it back to his chosen prophet.

So, to sum up the Mary thing, no she is not dead she is very much alive. This one woman is unique among the human race, she was chosen and willingly accepted to be the mother of the one man (son of God, your Yeshua fellow) who would change everything. She is not simply God's whore whom he had his way with then cast aside like a toy he was bored with afterwards.

Futhermore 'earth pig' ? You've got to be kidding right. Playing scrabble with the hebrew alphabet might be amusing for you, but there is only one Christ that died upon the cross, and it was no pig. To be quite honest that is just insulting and perhaps you should look further into who is providing this information to you. There is only one God whom Jesus taught us to call father, there is only one Holy spirit who comes upon this earth to carry out his will and there is only one Son that died upon the cross to save us all.

What's more, when I had my experience, Mary spoke those words to me in English, she used the word Jesus, and to me that word only has one meaning - the same Jesus who died upon the cross, not some fallen angel idol. So playing scrabble with the hebrew language beomes invalidated in your argument because it was not Hebrew she spoke to me. If she spoken in another language I would have been like 'What you saying woman, I speak E-N-G-L-I-S-H...."