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Vatican ban on Medjugorje public appearances in USA raises brows

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posted on Nov, 15 2013 @ 03:25 PM
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lonewolf19792000
Unless I missed something somewhere, Resurrection hasn't occurred yet so I don't know how it is you're communicating with a dead woman,...

Yes you missed something. The dead aren't 'sleeping in the grave'. They are alive and active
and aware of what is going on. If you wish to ignore that and cling to the 'sleeping in the grave'
belief of the fundamentalist christians .. knock yourself out. But it's simply not true.

And before you start quoting scripture about 'sleeping in the grave' ... you can quote Old Testament and other scripture all you want. That doesn't change the fact that they are alive and aware on the 'other side'. Oh, and here's some of your scripture back ..

Revelation 6:9 - When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.

The souls were alive and awake and very much aware of what was happening on Earth.
They were praying ... and God was hearing their prayers.

That 'sleeping in the grave' business is the personal belief of the writers. It's not God's teaching. NDEs and Ghosts and intercession of those who have 'died' prove that 'sleeping in the grave' is dead wrong.

(yep, I said ... 'sleeping in the grave' is "DEAD" wrong. ha ha ha
)




posted on Nov, 18 2013 @ 08:00 AM
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with the latest words of Francis it seems the roman catholic church's .quarters take hardline position on apparitions, not only Medjugorje. I will not comment that anymore, at least not here. Because I have to repeat things already said. Whether or not we are in the end times, will be known only THEN and not before. Not even by the pope. Benedict also talked about that. John Paul II - too. We just don't know and that is the best to say. It may start tomorrow or after 2000 years.

edit on 18-11-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 18 2013 @ 09:00 AM
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I don't want to continue that thread endlessly that was originally intended as reaction of one decision, not a battleground for church's liberties. Moreover the catholics there are not very active and if they are it is not to defend liberties, the opposite. Perhaps they would be happier with a pope similar to Pius 12.
www.abovetopsecret.com... here you can comment ET issues including apparitions that are in fact visitors from above.



posted on Nov, 18 2013 @ 03:02 PM
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There is no point in stressing out about the latest decision. Medjugorje is and always will be Medjugorje despite what the pontiff of the day says. If you read some of the stuff Mary has said, you will know that the Church is in a time of trial and Satan is trying very hard and not without success to destroy it. Division, confusion and gagging the true believers are great ways to cause dissent and desertion of the faith.

However to be fair, there is a lot of criticism of the seers and the lifestyles that they live i.e they have not chosen a life of simplicity and poverty like say Lucia from Fatima did. The Vatican is playing it safe because the visions are dragging out seemingly forever and none of the secrets have been revealed so we cannot check their validity. So far, the only thing of substance that the world has over the last 32 years (apart from the untold personal miracles, mine included) is the monthly messages to the world. These messages are fairly repetitive and while they are theologically correct, they do not necessarily prove that Mary said anything to the seers if one has a skeptical mind.

So, for those of us who believe in Medjugorje, the Blessed Virgin Mary and all of her good works all we can do is wait and see until the secrets are revealed and start to manifest. To me, there is no question as to whether something supernatural is happening there, it is more will the church come to the conclusion that I have - that this is the real deal, or will they condemn it?



posted on Nov, 18 2013 @ 03:47 PM
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reply to post by 2012newstart
 


I read in the OP and follow up posts a bashing of the faith. Love you brother, still I am calling you on it.

Fallen away Catholics are the most bitter (over their choice). You can come come home, go to Confession
and to Holy Mass Sunday. In that order.

The Remnant is Roman Catholic, God desires everyone to be Roman Catholic. He is going to show the
world, non-Christians too very "soon" in the Great Warning. Still, it will still be a free will choice.

God is like us, He desires are love to be true.



colbe



posted on Nov, 18 2013 @ 03:49 PM
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Oops, I did not proof and hit post ~

I meant to say....


The Remnant is Roman Catholic, God desires everyone to be Roman Catholic. He is going to show the
world, non-Christians too very "soon" in the Great Warning. Still, it will be a free will choice.

God is like us, He desires our love to be true.



posted on Nov, 19 2013 @ 12:31 AM
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reply to post by colbe
 


Colbe, apparently you didn't understand anything of my work here. My work here was not to bash the catholic or any other church or faith. My work is to explain and defend the escape way from the coming cataclysm. That I not see explained or defended by almost anyone except for few less known seers. Certainly not by the leaders who know quite a lot but who prefer to keep us in dark until the last 3 days.

And you may be as wrong in your conclusions for your own place in the end times or whatever is coming. Nobody else speaks of remnant church except for those catholic self-proclaimed prophets, not Medjugorje, Fatima or Akita. How do you know they are the right ones? I'd rather believe the evangelical theories of End times and Rapture than what you and others like you offer me to believe. Because what those people offer is only suffering and death. There is no life in it, no future generations, except for the soul in the other life, and some expectation of the Second Coming, that frankly may come after 2,000 or 20,000 years. Thanks so much, I have had enough of that already. I don't have to become apostle in post-Great Warning "conversion" only to die as martyr in that scenario that I think is wrong in its basis. I prefer the rapture in spaceships, the rescue from dying earth and 2 Peter fire, the continuation of generations and of God's people and faith. That all is cancelled or never spoken of the prophecies who insist on the hly remnant. Perhaps some of them will embrace that. Otherwise better to die than to play in crazy scenarios of crazy people who might appear not so crazy but implanted. That is valid for everyone who offers unreal scenarios to follow, no matter ho hi his rank is.

I posted visions of John 23 and nobody dares to say a word. Nobody comments them in the Catholic "free" websites, and they surely know of them long ago. Good job!

Communists would say the things freer than what we see in the Catholic "free press". As they published both John 23 encyclical "Peace on Earth" in Pravda, and reported the Voronezh ET contact in great detail in TASS. Who is actually the silenced one and when - in the Communist period or right NOW? I just can't imagine we are talking of a 21st century that sees no shame in so many other ugly things taking place in public and with "pride".

May be this is enough said here and I move to the other thread not having Medjugorje in its title, because the things do not concern Medjugorje alone. If I have time at all since the events are almost upon us.
edit on 19-11-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2013 @ 09:34 AM
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reply to post by colbe
 


Instead of calling me to repentance and saying 19th century theology that God desired everyone roman catholic, you and others could call for more transparency and liberty within the roman catholic church as it happened on Vatican II. If it was not for Vatican II imagine what kind of church you would proclaim now. The last 10-15 years were lost, since the illness of JP2 made him incapable to lead effectively the catholic church. Others ruled instead, we all know that. Isn't it just enough, that lost time? One lost generation! It is just enough, for both catholics and non-catholics. The catholic spirit of the 1990s that tore down communist walls have to come back, and not building of new mental walls instead, or it is no more catholic in first place. Think about that. Moreover the world in 2013 has many more challenges than the world of let say 1997. Some of them I just noticed very briefly, there are many more.

So when you accuse myself to have to repent for what is my right of free view after all, I feel quite uncomfortable. Much worse if the new doctrine is of a such kind. And not a new freshness of John P2 and John 23 whom we shall call "saints" soon. Think about that, and stop mentoring me in 18th style. Did you want me to say that? OK you have it said. Didn't answer one question I put forward but call myself the bad guy. OK. Now you may think of other tasks to do in this forum.

edit on 19-11-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2013 @ 09:49 AM
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I am thankful, that despite the brief spat with Colbe, there were views in this thread about Medjugorje and apparitions, about what is catholic or what is not (as apparently the idea that Mary is deified does not belong to either catholic or orthodox teachings). Whether most of you like my walks in backward in history and forward in future, well you could express your views as well. Most of you chose not to do so but to concentrate on the positive. Perhaps that is the better way.

Let concentrate on the positive in Medjugorje and other similar cases. Because it shaped one long generation (or the subsequently born 3 generations) starting back in 1960 with Fatima and continuing with Medjugorje in the last few decades (the generation born in 1917 is no more alive). It is mostly the same generations that lived in the years shaped by Vatican II council, in and out of the catholic church, because the catholic church opened for the rest of churches and the wider world. The times were different than before and were marked by events that no one back then believed were possible. Not even Pius 12 believed it were possible the fearful communism to collapse, still he called to avoid a nuclear war at all cost. Words that are nearly forgotten today, when we have a dozen of new nuclear powers.

edit on 19-11-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2013 @ 03:07 PM
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reply to post by 2012newstart
 


I think for anyone who doubts the authenticity of Mary's intents, this letter that was dictated by Mary to Mirjana and sent to the then Pope John Paul 2 in 1982 should clear up any doubts. It is bit of a statement of the obvious nowadays, but back then it was quite bold for someone to send a letter stating what this does.




"Excuse me for this, but you must realize that Satan exists. One day he appeared before the throne of God and asked permission to submit the Church to a period of trial. God gave him permission to try the Church for one century. This century is under the power of the devil; but when the secrets confided to you come to pass, his power will be destroyed. Even now he is beginning to lose his power and has become aggressive. He is destroying marriages, creating divisions among priests and is responsible for obsessions and murder. You must protect yourselves against these things through fasting and prayer, especially community prayer. Carry blessed objects with you. Put them in your house, and restore the use of holy water."


Medjugore secrets

You will note that it says that when the secrets come to pass the trial of the church will end. The secrets have not even been given to everyone yet and it is has been 32 years since the apparitions started. So it would seem that we are in perhaps the middle or last part of these events.



posted on Nov, 20 2013 @ 12:17 AM
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reply to post by markosity1973
 

I know that, thank you for making it known. You don't want to end writing here?
If there are alive people on planet by then. Only one visionary will stay on earth (alive? not raptured?) and will continue having apparitions (and possibly messages), said Vicka in the last years.
By the third sign it is said, "whoever is alive at that time". We must realize that both personaly and planetar level the things may change drastically with millions dead (JP2 in Fulda before German bishops) just as the first several secrets happen. The status quo continued for toooo looong. Church will be the first cleansed, said Paul.

About the secrets, they may be anywhere between 2 and 12 for what we know as "the first two secrets". The third secret the great sign is one and the same for all six visionaries. In other words we may have many more and dramatic events just before the great sign. Don't buy the thing that peaceful harmony and money making in Medjugorje will last forever or as long as we are alive (the older generation).
Mirjana once said the first secret will be known immediately AFTER it happens. Id like if the seers are permitted to say more.
edit on 20-11-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2013 @ 12:41 AM
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double post sorry
edit on 20-11-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2013 @ 12:44 AM
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having a comet that just plunges to the sun amid solar X flares, and seems to disintegrate, we can only await if the promised Great Warning (whatever it actually contents in secrets) will happen now. Or first we will have to see the horrors of yet another world war. Not necessarily Russian occupation. May be Muslim.

from now on, I will comment any apparition only in the context of extraterrestrial presence and apparition. Even Virgin Mary is accompanied by angels. Moreover we don't know if the bad ones, such as repto-draconians do not play foul games. In anyway, I will not separate those two topics anymore, commenting on "Virgin Mary" while sidelining or completely ignoring the reality that only in our galaxy there are 400 billion stars. Perhaps Virgin Mary has made her choice already between stars and civs, so did Satan's followers. Did some in the church make their choices, too, siding with particular good or evil extraterrestrials? Not necessarily the officials but surely secret conspiracy circles.
Pls follow me at that thread. www.abovetopsecret.com... Churches, tell us the truth of ET-angels and aliens-demons" I stop following the current "Vtican ban on Medjugorje public appearances in USA raises brows" .

I want to put it forward: are the Medjugorje 10-30 secrets revealing extraterrestrial existence and coming intervention? Do other apparitions have similar secrets? Including Fatima? What else could be a secret that we don't know of? I.e. we know of WW3 is possible, asteroid is possible, antichrist is possible. Only ET are not talked about UNTIL NOW. Mirjana once said to someone: if you know the first secret then say it. OK I am saying it. Not only the first, all the secrets are connected to the reality that Virgin Mary appears with angels that are extraterrestrials. At one moment they will start cleansing the earth and gathering the good people as Elijah. Prove me wrong, Mirjana.
edit on 20-11-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 07:43 AM
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One could find serious controversies between the newer "Medjugorje messages" ,and the early interviews of the same seers. In the first years they were speaking of the secrets much more than what they do now. What we now of the so caled secrets is thanks to these interviews, not thanks to the ongoing messages.

Mirjana was recently quoted that 95% of the books written on Medjugorje were false and shouldn't be read. Pardon me? The authors quoted exactly the early testimonies of those same 6 seers, then children and youths! Whom to believe? Then or now?

The issue should be carefully studied. But not in command mode, as I already spoke of it ENOUGH.


Besides that, the latest document of pope Francis highlights the impending Church reform in completely different and positive perspective. I am eager to see what practical terms that will take, and when.

Because we already have a new generation of souls coming to earth born after 2000 the year Fatima and other prophecies should have been fulfilled. If it happens after our death for most part of those who believe, what use of it? Do you think the new generation will go back to old prophecies? The new generations will have their visions, their seers, their grace to follow Jesus. Not that of past generations. New issues will come to be the everyday life, not the old ones. It doesn't come only to the new smart phone, but a new view of the world and the wider universe, and most probably new contacts with it. In the mode of those described in Old Testament, Ezekiel's contacts etc. Check my other threads.

It is premature to expect Second Coming of Jesus now, only because some seers say so. (not Medjugorje). They might be wrong. They enter into even bigger controversies than those of Medjugorje. In other words, it might be John 23 to be the right one in his unverified diary visions of Virgin Mary.

I am in expectation. Too much time have already passed, too many opportunities missed and lives gone to eternity. When shall God's kingdom come to earth, if ever in our days? Of course it never ruled the earth, we may say with certainty looking back in history. Jesus cannot just come without basic things fulfilled beforehand. Don't just expect the antichrist. Seems to me some people prefer the early arrival of the antchrist whom they hate so much (and have a short list of people and countries to be blamed) than to expect God's kingdom to come as Jesus spoke about. As we pray in Our Father. "Interior". Then eat "interior" food and live "interior"life not public. This is an absurd. For 2000 years there is no God's kingdom on earth. Rather bloodshed and injustice of all kind, both from enemies outside and friends within. Is this God's will for humankind until the end of it? I doubt it. And I am not afraid to say it. What worse could happen? The antichrist to come? Well you are so much prepared that it shouldn't be a problem for you.
edit on 2-12-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 03:08 PM
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FlyersFan

2012newstart
20 years passed since then. One cannot return to "status quo ante" disregarding the "status quo" for 20 years. Especially on such a sensitive topic such as Medjugorje.

Technically they can leave it at that forever if they want to. The church can not rule in favor of an apparition while it is still 'in progress'. Medjugorje is still 'in progress'. The church can say it has no opinion yet and it can say that it's not supernatural and/or condemn it .. but it can't approve an apparition until it's 'finished'.



And very important, the Church is waiting to decide on most of Mary's current and not too far in the past apparitions and also waiting on Our Lord's messages. Both given to their chosen messengers because what Our Lord and His mother have shared that is coming to the world in the messages has NOT yet taken place. Jesus and His mother are preparing you, it takes awhile, our stubborn nature.

Example, Garabandal's messages about the divine Warning, the Great Miracle and revelation about the God's just Chastisement are yet to happen. Have faith, believe God would let the world know of these
divine events.

And the many private revelations since Garabandal over fifty years ago confirm the messages of Garabandal. It is foolish to speak of the prophesied Great Warning and at the same time deny Garabandal.

Many bishops direct Catholics, all people, to take the good from the current messages (private revelation). Wise advise.



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 03:32 PM
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2012newstart
having a comet that just plunges to the sun amid solar X flares, and seems to disintegrate, we can only await if the promised Great Warning (whatever it actually contents in secrets) will happen now.


There wasn't an X flair and the comet just got pulled apart by the sun.
It happens all the time. We've seen a half dozen dive bomb into the sun
this year alone ... suicide comets. Ison is dead and in fragments.



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 02:46 AM
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FlyersFan

2012newstart
having a comet that just plunges to the sun amid solar X flares, and seems to disintegrate, we can only await if the promised Great Warning (whatever it actually contents in secrets) will happen now.


There wasn't an X flair and the comet just got pulled apart by the sun.
It happens all the time. We've seen a half dozen dive bomb into the sun
this year alone ... suicide comets. Ison is dead and in fragments.


There was a X flare in the time before the perihelion. Check data. There are enough threads to speculate about the Ison past and future if any. It behaved not as usual comet. It became much bigger in size than the size of the earth or even Jupiter. (Holmes comet became bigger than the size of the Sun). Ison had a short lifespan after the perihelion seen on SOHO and Stereo, but quite large.

www.wpclipart.com...

Right now it may indeed be dead, we still don't know. Still the fragments are not "dead" and thanks God the projected orbit by NASA leads them above the plane of earth's orbit. Hope NASA is correct this time. Because some say otherwise.

Notice also the fact Ison is just as big as the inner circle that covers the sun, right after perihelion. It might have been diffused so far. Still, chunks that make such halo and tail should no tbe underestimated, even if they are defragmented. Remember the bombardment of Jupiter by pieces of disintegrated comet Shoemaker/Levy 9
with Jupiter 16.7.-21.7.1994 www.surveyor.in-berlin.de... More photos are available on google. 4.bp.blogspot.com... Explosions bigger than the size of the Earth!
edit on 3-12-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 03:44 AM
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Flyers there were weeks of excitement following the latest news of Ison and you didn't say a word here. Neither did I because this thread is not Ison's. I just mentioned it altogether, and there was a X-flare, there were one or more filament explosions, on this or that side of the sun.

Now when the comet is almost gone (but not the debris field!) you want to prove how wrong I am even in such simple natural thing as a comet. It is not a simple thing and there were too many things to consider by specialists that they themselves were puzzled when Ison "resurrected". That was the word used.

Ison appeared to be bigger than Jupiter after perihelion, not dead, even for a short time. I wonder what SDO cameras hided from us when they stayed all tuned to one only slide of the sun at the time of perihelion.
All forums ask those questions, including ATS other bigger threads. What is so inconvenient to be shown. Now it is "gone".

No it isn't. The debris still fly and pray to God they don't fly our way. Whatever made up Ison is still there, although reduced and defragmented. And we don't know what its composition might be. It might be never before encountered substance. Surely not "dirty snowball" as the decades old theory predicts. A theory that didn't give explanation for Holmes outburst either. How about denser elements inside such as element 115? I say that as provocation, if you know what I mean. It could be Everything inside a comet who showed so bright after announced death.

It is not useful to keep the status quo. Rather to employ all imagination and brainstorm. Actually the guys just hide it from us. Those with the big telescopes. Pope's astronomers jesuits if you will. They know what flied and what flies.
edit on 3-12-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 04:28 AM
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2012newstart
Flyers there were weeks of excitement following the latest news of Ison and you didn't say a word here.

Because it's just a comet. One of many. It wasn't coming near us. It wasn't a rouge planet. It wasn't anything spectacular. It was just the usual little ball of rock and ice making it's way across the solar system. And it was likely to die when it circled the sun ... which it did. It wasn't anything to get worked up about. THere have been a bunch of comets come through this year. Most not visible to the naked eye. And many have dive bombed into the sun. It's standard. Nothing special ... nothing noteworthy ....




edit on 12/3/2013 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 08:56 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 

that means you understood nothing.

Only comet Holmes in the last decade exploded like that. And that happened beyond Mars. Completely unexplained by the current mainstream comet theory. Therefore, we should not forget and change the comet, change the theory.

Electrical Universe and electrical comets are a good candidate for a possible explanation.

Ison exploded at least two times and nearing the sun it was already larger than Jupiter. Not like usual comets.

It didn't "die" at perihelion despite predictions of scientists. It lived quite long enough after perihelion to be seen on Soho and Stereo. Again bigger than Jupiter (not the core, but the coma halo and tails).
This I call unusual comet, to say the least. Let alone the enigma why SDO space based cameras just didn't catch anything if SOHO did. Perhaps they didn't want to show what they had in view.

I will add the comment of
Karl Battams of NASA's Comet ISON Observing Campaign who says on Nov 29 after the re-emergence of Ison:

"We have a whole new set of unknowns, and this ridiculous, crazy, dynamic and unpredictable object continues to amaze, astound and confuse us to no end. We ask that you please be patient with us for a couple of days as we analyze the data and try to work out what is happening."
spaceweather.com...

Despite the comet diffused by now, it is a good occasion to check where the theories are wrong, and not the comets who behave improperly.

It is a good occasion to check where the seers' models of future are wrong, and not the reality. Because, it was a comet predicted by many seers as a sign for whatever. Many of them already died. Let check the real case scenario that God allows to happen, and forget about pre-set models that may never happen.
edit on 3-12-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)




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