Vatican ban on Medjugorje public appearances in USA raises brows

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posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 07:05 AM
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(Ref. www.spiritdaily.com...)

The news is just incoming. I will not retell everything. There is a letter from the papal nunintio in USA to the US catholic bishops' conference, in which he quoting some old rule of some commission dating back 1992, he forbids the public appearances of the Medjugorje seer Ivan Dragicevic in USA. These apparitions gather usually thousands of faithful catholics throughout US parishes. (Ivan is married in US and is a US citizen if that matters. I don't know whether they hurt his rights of gathering in that way).

For those who don't know the background, Medjugorje is the single longest catholic apparition site where 6 seers then children claimed they see Our Lady everyday since 1981. All of them are married now. 3 of them, Ivan, Vicka and Marija receive daily visions, Marija reports a message once a month. The other 3 of them Ivanka, Mirjana and Jacov, had their daily visions ceased upon receiving the 10th secret of what would be 10 big events to befall the earth "soon". They have yearly apparitions, while Mirjana - monthly apparitions and messages. There are numerous websites where you can read the messages. Mirjana's apparitions are public and gather thousands crowd in Medjugorje and Italy. Ivan also has public apparitions in the Summer in Medjugorje, and sometimes gives short messages from the Virgin.

The Vatican never ruled on the case. The former Yugoslavia bishops' conference had the above mentioned ruling shortly before the breakup of Yugoslavia and the followed war. Since then the case is handled very carefully by the Vatican endless commissions.

The bottom line is that for 32 years, millions, may be a hundred millions catholic pilgrims made their way to Medjugorje to venerate the Madonna. Usually those are among the most devote catholics who also attend other "official" church ceremonies and even daily mass. Medjugorje is often connected to Fatima, and some call "its continuation" (JP2 words).

The problem now appears to be the newly directive from the so called Congregation of doctrine of faith CDF with her chief a German cardinal appointed by the ex-pope Benedict. His ruling de facto puts a ban on any public activity of Medjugorje within the USA. And may be soon spread in the rest of the world, especially Europe.

Countries like Germany, Poland and Austria are especialy devote to Medjugorje apparitions. Cardinal Schoenborn of Vienna hosted the seer Ivan twice in his cathedral during an apparition. Then the cardinal served the mass, and then exchanged warm words with Ivan. That same event now is banned in the USA.

Does it mean a big change in the Vatican policy regarding Medjugorje, and apparitions as a whole? Does it mean pope Francis personally ordered that? Or perhaps he didn't know? Or perhaps it is a case of "wait and see" how the people will react?

I don't know how that case will evolve. Moreover it is not the first case of the new pontificate of pope Francis. The German bishops reportedly asked him to start giving Holy Communion to divorsed and remarried couples. There is ongoing problem with the US nuns that now is silenced somehow during the transitional period of papacy, but may erupt at any moment. Let alone the more secular problems, the social problems, the money laundering of prelates of Vatican, and those issues entering in the sexual area.

I would think of incoming reformer when I saw for a first time the newly elected pope Francis on ST Peter's balcony. He spoke so afterwards, and appointed a commission of cardinals leaded by cardinal Maradiaga to choose what exact reforms the Vatican needs. One of them would be the lessening of number of staff. Maradiaga himself is a fervent devotee to Medjugorje and erected a cross replica of the Cross Hill in Medjugorje, in his home country of Honduras. If I would think of a reformer among the current cardinals, I would think of Maradiaga, himself being "papabile in the last two conclaves. It is not strange he is appointed as chief of the reforms.

In view of all that, I wonder does really Francis need a new scandal this time within the core of the most devote catholics who literally fulfil every word coming from Rome as if coming from God? What will ultimately make the ban on Medjugorje meetings? This is not a small thing. After all those are the people who make the church run, after the priests and the nuns. Isn't it a misjudgment on the side of hierarchy appointed of previous pope, even as high as the chief of CDF? (once the inquisition hi ofice). If so, it is a misjudgment that may take quite great dimensions because it heads into the core of the "believing church", not so much of the "secular church".

Having recently a Fatima activity around the pope that we discussed in length, it seems to me the prophecy is not out of the pontificate of Francis, rather inside it. Whether Medjugorje is authentic apparition? And if not, what would be the explanation, who is appearing instead of Our Lady? I would go back to my favorite topic of extraterrestrials. What else, if it is ruled out Our Lady to be there, if not a benevolent extraterrestrial? I don't believe it is the demon. The fruits are too good for that. I'd rather accept it is Our Lady accompanied with her servants the extraterrestrials.

In a sense, the denial of Medjugorje may bring much bigger trouble to the already troubled Rome, than its status quo. With a reformist program of Francis, I don't think he needs anything of the sort. We remember how the "NWO initiative" to the world leaders initiated by some cardinals ended up with shame. Then secretary of state Bertone had to declare he didn't know of it.

I think the interests of the Catholic Church, an important part of the Christianity worldwide although not the ony part(roughly half of it), are much higher than one person's interests or judgments. Certainly higher than the 'great inquisitor' that appears to be the chief of CDF today. No one is sinless. If changes have to be made, let they be made. Let they be made on time. Benedict showed with his example the honorable way of retirement for the benefit of the flock and of the world.

Time is literally ticking and I don't know if we will have another Christmas season the way we know it. (that I discuss in other threads). If the Catholic Church and her hierarchy have to offer something positive to the wider world, after so much complex history, perhaps now is the time to do so.




posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 07:49 AM
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Changes usually mean change of people in first place, when we talk of governmental changes, political, or leadership in any industry including business. Because the people do not tend to change themselves so fast in years, sometimes in one human life. We are not in ancient times when Caesar's relatives took the offices in Rome according to their loyalty.

Benedict showed in an excellent way how a pope could step down with honor. In past ages the pope was considered the highest authority on this planet. Today the meaning is different. But the pope doesn't act alone. Benedict didn't, John Paul 2 didn't.

Today we all have a new pope in Rome called in the prophecy Petrus Romanus. I just mark it and will leave it for another thread. This new pope comes amidst appreciation of Catholics and non Catholics alike. He takes the name Francis as we know St Francis the man of peace and love of nature. He comes as a Jesuit but once a bishop, once a pope he is already beyond that narrow border of one religious order. He encounters problems inherited by decades. It is unrealistic to expect he will resolve them all in a week. He encounters also people.

Until now he made very few changes, the biggest of which is the secretary of state, and the commission for reforms that I already mentioned. In a moment he finds himself surrounded by people, may be too many and too old, who belong to another generation and much more, to another way of thinking. Not that of reformers but that of loyality to previous paradigms. Because the paradigm of John Paul 2 however honorable was fit for the End of the Cold War, not 25 years later in the computer era.

Changes are needed. The miscalculated decision of the head of one congregation cannot put to halt the church and to inflict painful damage to the hearts of hundreds of thousands common believers. If medjugorje is not what we think of it, then let it is explained. But don't strike the people who believe Medjugorje. Because doing so one strikes the people who believe in Virgin Mary's intercession in the troubled 20th century. One strikes at the people who made it all happen with the Fall of communism if you will. Let not enter again in Fatima topic (pls refer to my previous threads). It is something essential for the Catholic church of 21st century and of the sister churches and freelance believers too, who find spiritual guidance of some sort in the successor of Peter, even though they are not listed formally in a paper. All those people, if you will you may put there Buddhists and Muslims with good will) all those people want to see a significant change into the positive coming from the heart of the Christian civilization. In order to continue to believe in the Christian civilization, even if they do not believe exactly to churches' teachings.

Change means new people on hi places, those who will think differently. those who will offer new paradigm and new ways to resolve old and new conflicts. Because the new conflicts are just incoming. We don't need new separations. I hope and wish the policy of pope Francis and his NEW team brings unity not separation, brings peace and God's grace. If it is the Mother Mary's shadow, let it be so. If not, may be there are other ways to tell the world how exactly God's grace manifests in our days. Not the ways that the history proved futile, even in our 20th century. Seems some people still live in those old days. Today is November 7th the day of the October revolution. Enough of significance with Fatima. Should we choose the old era or should we cross the threshold of hope that John Paul II spoke of. Some people wouldn't. Because they have decided so. They have made their choice already. Let they step aside and let the multitude pass thru the portal. If they don't want voluntarily to make that move, they ought to be made to clear the portal of God's new era. No one is beyond the Gospel, beyond Christ, beyond His Holy Mother and ours. No matter how hi in rank. Let the man who finds himself belonging to a different era steps aside together with his era. There is no time to wait more ANYTHING. If the nukes aren't pointed yet, they could be - show recent news from China and Saudi Arabia. There is NOTHING more to wait for the big change in God's house. The other alternative is unbelievable - everyone to save himself as he can from a sinking ship that is the sinking church structure. I still think it is unbelievable although Malachi speaks in similar terms. Perhaps he saw it wrong. Perhaps it is not now. Let give God a chance to act in history now. Let make clear the way of the Lord, as St john cries from the desert. No we don't need anymore inquisitors to tell us the will of God. Perhaps we need exactly His Mother to tell us His Holy Will. Perhaps She is not alone. But please, tell us what is happening. Just tell us in understandable words. Don't hurt us with your spear, religious leaders who belong to another era. If you do that, your time is gone. We read and pray and reflect, and we are not quite willing to give up rights already acquired by a hard struggle. Struggle that saw the blood of martyrs on the streets of Rome. Let it not be repeated ever. I just don't want to finish this post negatively, although the conclusion is more than obvious.

What do you think the outcome will be? I know the outcome but why so long it takes until it materializes? Will a change of a hi rank official bring the peace and healing on the next day? Only God can bring the peace and healing, and He will do so soon with His holy angels. Gathering people who did not assume they were counted, instead of people who now think of themselves as very holy. OK I stop here, pls put your comments about the case Vatican office vs Medjugorje devotees. And don't be shy to spread the word further. No matter if you believe in Medjugorje or not. It is principle. Tomorrow it will be something else until you see yourselves hurt. If I have to finish it optimistically, let say this December will be all different. In unimaginable way.
edit on 7-11-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 08:00 AM
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The letter that says the Medjugorje 'seers' can not do public appearances in Catholic Churches isn't really something new. It's reaffirming the rule from April 2001. (I'll go recheck that date).

I went to Medjugorje in the summer of 1991. I was conservative Catholic at that time and it wasn't forbidden for us to go. We saw supernatural things there that are unexplainable and impossible for humans to cause to happen. I also had a inner supernatural experience.

I'm VERY interested to see if the Church rules that these are heavenly supernatural or demonic supernatural. Or if it rules that it started out as a hoax and then something supernatural attached later (which is what I personally think happened with Garabandal).



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 08:32 AM
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the Church cannot rule so fast. Major apparitions have been approved only after the deaths of the seers. With few exceptions. Medjugorje has good fruits. I visited it too but it just doesn't matter myself. One cannot claim the demon would urge the people to hurl to Medjugorje to make confessions and in many cases to change their lives. The demons usually do the opposite, according to all we know of them.

US bishops conference should have shown or will show in future tense more muscle than it is presented now from all these writings online. We don't really know how those all bishops react. A priest can deny a meeting, frightened by the seals. But all US bishops commanded as if they are soldiers? How about the synod and the whole idea the church is all bishops together, with the faithful? Or it is just words of convenience that become useless at the next doc of the next bureaucrat who issues it in the next office. Then for what unification anyone is hoping for, if the Orthodox patriarchs see clearly how Roman bureucracy works in practice? If they will be the next useless clerks in their home countries? Think of that. The apostles didn't make it that way. The church is apostolic, that means Rome plus all the rest. That means all the bishops. Not a Vatican clerk no matter how hi in hierarchy. Not the great inquisitor if I have to use that terminology. Sorry but it is not a reform what we see right now, it is how to say, restoration to some very old model. This is the warning signal even if one does not believe in Medjugorje at all. The inquisitor must go, at least. Perhaps he is not alone. Perhaps together with his outdated office that knows quite a dark history. Or you fear him? Then you bought him extra time and power. Shall we dare to change, or we all sink. No, I am out of the sinking, sorry. Let those responsible bear their own and historic weight if they refuse and refuse to change.



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 08:58 AM
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posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 09:02 AM
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FlyersFan
The letter that says the Medjugorje 'seers' can not do public appearances in Catholic Churches isn't really something new. It's reaffirming the rule from April 2001. (I'll go recheck that date).


those endless commissions that threw the ball from one to another! Typical communist style of work!
The bishops of Bosnia especially cardinal P. threw the ball int he Vatcan yard around 2001, is it what you are talking about. The 1992 decision is now of NON EXISTENT bishops' conference of a NON EXISTENT country ex-Yugosavia. Since then the war came.

20 years passed since then. One cannot return to "status quo ante" disregarding the "status quo" for 20 years. Especially on such a sensitive topic such as Medjugorje.

Be aware that for too many really devoted catholics Medjugorje is a non-negotiable issue. They will not prefer the administration in Rome before the blessed Mother. It is ill-conceived attempt to bring them one against the other. Is it the sought outcome I don't know. Let the bishops think. They are those appointed. I mean all the bishops, not only the 4 in Bosnia. All catholic bishops. Not only of Medjugorje.
edit on 7-11-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 09:09 AM
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apparently the idea of this move is to put the most hardline faithful on collision course with the vatican administration especially that part of it that rejects Medjugorje. In the course, the US bishops are put as intermediaries to be tested. By whom? I don't believe the new pope is behind that at all. The new pope has enough troubles of different nature, such as the social and the sexual issues, as I pointed out, to seek any problem now with the most devote people over an apparition that enlightens the faith! That could be someone only who seek to destroy the plan of upgrade that Benedict himself started with his honorable resignation.

Anguera points out the antichrist is inside the walls of the Vatican. It is not me, it is Anguera 2008. Apparition that predicts blood in ROme as well as an invasion army. Don't seek the Russians first. It might be a Muslim one.
edit on 7-11-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 09:40 AM
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reply to post by 2012newstart
 


Would you or FlyersFan be willing to post the 8-12 predictions from those folks, which you believe are the most . . . important, critical, interesting, please?

I think it would help a lot to put the OP in perspective.

= = =

In my own case, I believe the Portuguese researchers into Fatima got it right.

HEAVENLY LIGHTS: THE APPARITIONS OF FATIMA AND THE UFO PHENOMENON

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_fkmr2_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1298251104&sr=1-1-fkmr2
.

CELESTIAL SECRETS: THE HIDDEN HISTORY OF THE FATIMA INCIDENT

.

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_fkmr2_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1298251104&sr=1-2-fkmr2

.

FATIMA REVISITED: THE APPARITION PHENOMENON IN UFOLOGY, PSYCHOLOGY, AND SCIENCE

.
www.amazon.com...=sr_1_fkmr2_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1298251104&sr=1-3-fkmr2

I believe that Fatima was essentially a UFO set of incidents with a fallen angel critter playing the role of Mary.

ALL focus, adoration of, worship of Mary is a distraction, at best, from worship of The Lord Jesus. There is nothing that the focus on Mary has to offer that's good . . . that The Lord Jesus Himself does not offer.

imho, Acting out a preference to seek Mary's help instead of The Lord Jesus' help is an insult to the One who died for all.

imho, the seers who are the top of the OP are merely furthering the meme that Mary is a source of prophetic information for these END TIMES.

Perhaps it is a complex set of stuff, all of which none of us have a full grasp of. However, from studying such things for 45 years . . . I'm beyond skeptical that The Lord Jesus has tasked Mary with any prophetic message deliveries.

There will be the TWO WITNESSES of the Tribulation period. And, there are some better known truly spiritually gifted, discerning and attuned prophetic sources around now. But on the whole, I think the Christian prophetic field is a mess.

God MUST have scheduled a clean-up. I firmly believe there will come a time WHEN the authentic prophetic sources anointed truly of Holy Spirit will speak ONLY AND EXACTLY what Holy Spirit gives them--which will come to pass to the letter and to the moment predicted. Until then, let the buyer beware.

I think EXO-VATICANA by Chris Putnam and Tom Horn cover quite convincingly the UFO phenomena's infection of the Vatican. Their thousands of pages of supporting documentation are unprecedented, imho.

It appears to me that the "Virgin Mary" apparition meme from at least Fatima forward and likely many centuries before that . . . is a centuries long set-up from the Great Deceiver toward insuring that the masses are AT LEAST CONFUSED if not wholesale led down the yellow brick road to worship of the world ruler and belief in the world ruler's false prophetic.

It will likely occur that at a critical point, there will be more overt NEW apparitions, visitations purportedly by Mary who will therein exhort the masses to follow the NEW ONE WORLD RELIGION.

I think the Vatican has already signaled such with the following kinds of assertions by increasingly higher ranked Vatican officials:



“Christians will not immediately need to renounce their faith in God simply on the basis of the reception of this new unexpected information of a religious character from extraterrestrial civilizations.” However, once the “religious content’ originating from outside the earth “has been verified*” they will have to conduct “a re-reading (of the Gospel) inclusive of the new data…” “



.
There’s no hint of the means of “verification!” Obviously, there’s no way to verify such for mortal man, in terms of going “behind the curtain” of the Wizard of Oz. Thankfully, The Bible has already pointed to The Truth and The One Who IS Truth.


EXO-VATICANA by Chris Putnam and Tom Horn is a 600 page SUMMARY of 10's of THOUSANDS of pages of documentation--a shocking amount of it from the worshiped INSTITUTION the RCC.

They discuss quite extensively the differences between fallen angels and unfallen angels with exhaustive documentation of very scholarly sorts. Where the RCC offers pontifical blather and dogma about angels . . . Putnam and Horn dig out Biblical and other history and EXPERIENCES vs opinions and philosophy.

Thankfully, one with an experience need never be 'down wind' of one farting merely opinions.

Here's the thread introducing their discussion of the Pope's behind the scenes prepping to increasingly overtly label the satanic fallen angels as good guys that the Vatican is working with:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And here's their website's article on the book etc:

www.logosapologia.org...

And here's a thread on The Vatican & Aliens {fallen angels} 2013:Unsealed Alien Files:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Here's the video related to that:

www.disclose.tv...

excerpts;




. . . {minute: 00:22 } that this holy order could be part of one of the biggest cover-ups in UFO history. . . .the church is getting ready to embrace outside of planet earth as part of creation. According to UFO theorists, the Vatican has possessed knowledge of alien life, for centuries . . .

{BX: Actually, to embrace fallen angels purporting to be distant planet ET's as part of beneficial theologically instructive creation}
. . .

UNSEALED ALIEN FILES . . .

. . .

{minute 2:05} April 8th (2005) at 6:03 AM hours before John Paul's funeral, an unidentified flying object is filmed by a security camera observing St Peter's Basilica. Could this mysterious object be evidence of a connection between the Vatican and alien life? A connection that theorists and historians believe has existed since the creation of the {RCC} church.

. . .

Giordanao Bruno . . . suggesting that science dictates life on other planets. . . . in 1600, Bruno was found guilty of heresy and burned at the stake. . . . the first person in history executed by the [RCC] for belief in Extraterrestrials . . . . . . was Bruno sacrificed to cover up a secret the church has allegedly hidden for the past 1500 years?


= = =


And here: Exo-Vaticana: Pope Francis Poised for Extraterrestrial Disclosure {update}

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Truth does not arrive out of nor is it reliably confirmed or disconfirmed by a Good-ole-boy's group of power-mongers in pontifical dress.

God is Truth.
His Word is Truth.
His ways are Truth.



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 09:46 AM
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Instead of a test of the US bishops, will they go with the flock who believes Medjugorje, or will they obey administration clerks with particular agendas. Instead of that, that is a test will pope Francis will reign within his own walls of the Vatican city state, or will he follow the unsuccess of his predecessor, no matter how gentle and grand his projected design was. I am so sorry Benedict couldn't do it until the end. But he did the best he could. It is now a struggle between the reformers within the red hats and those who are against anything new and want to see Spanish conquistadors again. Only the force is not on their side. I don't think the time of the antichrist has come yet. For reasons that I discuss in length in other threads. But for outside observer that struggle is dangerous. Especially those observers who are concerned of the Vatican such as the Orthodox churches or unnamed political circles. A grand fall of Rome such as described by Malachi would mean a grand re-design of all churches hierarchy, let alone the political one.

I know there are ultra-conservatives who want everything to happen here and now. Including La Salette text that mysteriously pops up out of nowhere. Even if true, it may take centuries to fulfill as it already took. In other words, don't expect the last 3.5 y even if Rome/Vat falls. But it is pity this pope won't be allowed to go any further in bringing the catholic church to a new future. I c how strong the old ones are, only to ruin the oldest western organization to ashes. Will pope Francis be able to oppose them? Until now he changed one man. His secretary of state. Two men against all the odds? I will repeat I don't believe pope Francis gave that order for Medjugorje. Even if the N3 so called inquisitor's sign is there. He was appointed by Benedict for reasons known to him. To assume the pope goes against the most populous catholic shrine in the world, and thsu the most devoted part of his church, means to assume the end of the roman church has arrived. Wel, Peter has other successors in Antioch and in Alexandria. A pity if true, definitely. The ROman church has a lot of historical guilt and may not be allowed to overcome it by anything. You see the future is in their hands! You see what they are doing before the world. Let they change. All of them. The church command is not only the pope and his secretary of state. I think there are quite many sane bishops who will support an drive of change. Is Medjugorje ban one of them? What remains after that? A handful of egoistic catholics who drop checks, for now. And when the checks stop? I will definitely not line up behind such kind of structure.



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 09:47 AM
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reply to post by 2012newstart
 


I think you make good points.

However, The Lord warned in the NT that the Great Deception of the END TIMES era would be SO GREAT that WERE IT POSSIBLE, the very elect, authentic Believers would be deceived.

Wisdom . . . anointed wisdom of Holy Spirit is required, imho.

Doing good things . . . and saying true things . . . mixed with whatever degree of less . . . can lead to a dreadful end if Holy Spirit is not enlivening THE TRUTH, HIS TRUTH amidst whatever EXPERIENCES are going on.

Doing good things deviously, saying good things can encourage alliances, commitments, affinities, loyalties which end up deadly.



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 09:56 AM
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reply to post by BO XIAN
 


you mean the 1 secrets of Medjugorje that are not really ten but anywhere between 10 and 45? Because you multiply by 6 except for the 3rd, 9th and 10th.

One should read original interviews of the first years. The 7th is significantly lessened. The 8th secret is worse than the previous 7, although some prayer lesened it. The 9th secret is even worse. The 10th is totally bad and cannot be lessened whatsoever no matter the prayer and penance. Only one word would have revealed it, according to Mirjana.

I don't know where to go - to dig deeper in Medjugorje, or to criticize the brutal one-man decision that puts to test not only 200 US bishops but all the rest? No I cannot accept Francis did it. Let he just fire the man who did it, who has already expired and once gave his resignation at the election. BTW one cardinal may have read here, or his aide. Just saying.



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 09:57 AM
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2012newstart
Instead of a test of the US bishops, will they go with the flock who believes Medjugorje, or will they obey administration clerks with particular agendas.


GREAT QUESTION.



. . .

I don't think the time of the antichrist has come yet. For reasons that I discuss in length in other threads. But for outside observer that struggle is dangerous. Especially those observers who are concerned of the Vatican such as the Orthodox churches or unnamed political circles. A grand fall of Rome such as described by Malachi would mean a grand re-design of all churches hierarchy, let alone the political one.


Welll, imho, it is CLEARLY AND CERTAINLY THE ERA of THE Anti-Christ. He must be waiting in the wings for his moment to spring authoritatively overtly on the world stage. Precisely when, remains to be seen. That moment will, imho, according to the Scriptures, begin the Tribulation period.




Will pope Francis be able to oppose them? Until now he changed one man. His secretary of state. Two men against all the odds? I will repeat I don't believe pope Francis gave that order for Medjugorje.


I'm not so confident of that, at all. I don't think Francis misses much under his purview. I don't think he'd allow such a ruling or declaration without his approval. You know more about such inner workings than I by far. But that's how I read the man.



. . . To assume the pope goes against the most populous catholic shrine in the world, and thsu the most devoted part of his church, means to assume the end of the roman church has arrived.


The RCC and all the other congregations of every religion (including atheism and scientism) will be CONSUMED by the globalist ONE WORLD RELIGION from hell. That much is clear from Scripture. The means and timing only remain to be seen. It appears that the pace is quickening toward that end.



Well, Peter has other successors in Antioch and in Alexandria.


I think Tom Horn and Chris Putnam put to rest very convincingly the nonsense of "successor to Peter" interpretation of that one NT Verse in EXO-VATICANA. Sigh.



The church command is not only the pope and his secretary of state. I think there are quite many sane bishops who will support an drive of change. Is Medjugorje ban one of them? What remains after that? A handful of egoistic catholics who drop checks, for now. And when the checks stop? I will definitely not line up behind such kind of structure.


Great points. Should be interesting. Invest in popcorn futures. LOL.



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 09:59 AM
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BO XIAN
Would you or FlyersFan be willing to post the 8-12 predictions from those folks, which you believe are the most . . . important, critical, interesting, please?

If you mean 'the secrets' from Medjugorje ... no one knows what they are. They are secrets. They are supposed to be revealed a few days before they happen and that is to be proof that the visions are authentic. Until then, they are unknown. 10 'secrets' to each of the six children. I believe they are supposed to be different secrets ...


I believe that Fatima was essentially a UFO set of incidents with a fallen angel critter playing the role of Mary.

As a person who fully believes we are being 'visited' by aliens here on Earth .. I have to totally disagree with Fatima being 'UFO' related at all. I saw the 'miracle of the sun' while I was in Medjugorje ... and it wasn't a space ship.


ALL focus, adoration of, worship of Mary is a distraction,

No one worships or adores Mary in the Catholic Church. If they do, then they are OUTSIDE of Church teaching. The Catechism is very clear ... adoration and worship belong to God alone. And no, Catholics do not think Mary is God.


I think EXO-VATICANA by Chris Putnam and Tom Horn cover quite convincingly the UFO phenomena's infection of the Vatican.

I read Tom Horns other book about the Last Pope. I was totally unimpressed. I'm sure that the anti-vatican book will be a turn on for those who already think the Vatican is the anti-christ or whatever ... but considering how poor the other book of his was, I can't say that I"m even tempted to spend the money on this latest one. Sorry.



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 10:00 AM
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reply to post by 2012newstart
 


I just think that particularly non RC readers would understand much better what this was all about, if you could post 8-12 specific predictions from the seers in concise sentences of 1-5 sentences each--whatever ones you believe are MOST IMPORTANT.

I think RC readers who are not familiar with such details would also be aided in understanding the discussion by the posting of said predictions.

We need examples of what the turmoil is about.



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 10:01 AM
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reply to post by BO XIAN
 


Bo, the pope hasn't done anything bad until now. He was a good pastor in his own archdiocese. I think such harsh accusations could not be put on anyone before actual deeds. Someone might want us think so though.

The inquisitor's fate is decided already if there is a pope who cares. But who will inherit all that? Perhaps he is not alone. Let not make Dan Brown scenario under Castel St Angello. You know most readers would agree with Exo Vaticana. Me- not, until I see hard proof. There are good ones as well. But they will not necessarily help Rome. They may help Moscow. Ha! Apostolic succession is found everywhere if one really searches for a such.



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 10:01 AM
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2012newstart
20 years passed since then. One cannot return to "status quo ante" disregarding the "status quo" for 20 years. Especially on such a sensitive topic such as Medjugorje.

Technically they can leave it at that forever if they want to. The church can not rule in favor of an apparition while it is still 'in progress'. Medjugorje is still 'in progress'. The church can say it has no opinion yet and it can say that it's not supernatural and/or condemn it .. but it can't approve an apparition until it's 'finished'.



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 10:02 AM
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BO XIAN
if you could post 8-12 specific predictions from the seers in concise sentences of 1-5 sentences each--whatever ones you believe are MOST IMPORTANT.

There aren't any to post. The 10 Secrets that each child has (or will have) are not known.
They are not to be released until a few days before each secret is to happen.



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 10:04 AM
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reply to post by BO XIAN
 


You brought up Pope Francis ....

Here's some Catholic rumor control (I still have some rumor connections from when I was a conservative Catholic) ....

- Pope John Paul II ... looked favorably upon Medjugorje.
- Pope Benedict ... looked favorably upon Medjugorje and is rumored to have visited it 'undercover' while he was a Cardinal.
- Pope Francis ... not inclined to be favorable to alleged apparitions.



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 10:06 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 



Hmmmm. Have none of the predictions come true . . . or come to their moment in time?

In terms of PETROS ROMANUS . . . evidently you didn't check out their tons of references very much at all.

In terms of Mary . . . if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck . . .

The bulk of the RCC has ENCOURAGED the adoration/veneration/worship of Mary for centuries for political and other reasons. That's obvious to even casual outside observers. A rose by any other name is still a rose.

Behaviors common to WORSHIP are directed to Mary and statues of Mary around the world 24/7 with the RCC's encouragement and blessing. Denial that such is worship is . . . laughable to non RCC observers.

People will always, reasonably, believe WHAT PEOPLE

DO

VS

what they SAY.



posted on Nov, 7 2013 @ 10:10 AM
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THANKS the below is very informative.

What are your guesses as to what Francis will do in all this?

He seems to be fairly no-nonsense and decisive. I don't observe in him a lot of hesitancy in doing whatever he thinks is right or to be done.

He seems to be very inclined to let the chips fall where they may.

Thanks for your kind replies, both of you.

I need to move along for now.

May God lead us all ever closer to Himself.



FlyersFan
reply to post by BO XIAN
 


You brought up Pope Francis ....

Here's some Catholic rumor control (I still have some rumor connections from when I was a conservative Catholic) ....

- Pope John Paul II ... looked favorably upon Medjugorje.
- Pope Benedict ... looked favorably upon Medjugorje and is rumored to have visited it 'undercover' while he was a Cardinal.
- Pope Francis ... not inclined to be favorable to alleged apparitions.






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