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What is your opinion (dealing with mentally disabled?)

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posted on Nov, 9 2013 @ 05:00 AM
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reply to post by James1982
 


Looks more like a chicken shop to me & not KFC, some highstreet version which is on every corner in london & most other main cities. I agree with every point you made. The previous msg from user regarding this & that as to why it is fake are all null & void.




posted on Nov, 9 2013 @ 05:36 AM
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reply to post by James1982
 


He kicked at the kid he did NOT KICK him. Note the child did not appear hurt or hold up his leg - because he was NOT kicked.

It was a disgusting that the man with DS was punched - he could have been killed and may well have had serious brain injuries.

What decent man would punch someone like that. Most men I know would say ' hey what is going on here'

It was very obvious that the little kid was completely unhurt.

All you guys who think it is ok to punch someone with out thought or reflection are nuts and really you are the problem in the world today.



posted on Nov, 9 2013 @ 05:38 AM
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reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee
 


Rubbish - he is NOT defending his son . His son was unhurt,
What he was doing was role modelling violence and defunct impulse control - yea great dad . NOT,



posted on Nov, 9 2013 @ 05:40 AM
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reply to post by eletheia
 


More CCTV cameras then people in Britain - I bet that was the UK



posted on Nov, 9 2013 @ 05:58 AM
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Show them love, give them wonderful experiences and they will react positively. Instead of shocking their brains, use holistic medicine coupled with logic building and reason development techniques. HELP THEM, stop treating mental illness like the reject words you imply it to be.



posted on Nov, 9 2013 @ 06:16 AM
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HelenConway
reply to post by James1982
 


He kicked at the kid he did NOT KICK him. Note the child did not appear hurt or hold up his leg - because he was NOT kicked.

It was a disgusting that the man with DS was punched - he could have been killed and may well have had serious brain injuries.

What decent man would punch someone like that. Most men I know would say ' hey what is going on here'

It was very obvious that the little kid was completely unhurt.

All you guys who think it is ok to punch someone with out thought or reflection are nuts and really you are the problem in the world today.


From my perspective (as someone viewing this happening, in peace, with no sound, from the comfort of my own home) it does appear obvious that the boy is OK and unharmed. But I cannot make a sure judgement on what exactly the father knew/thought/felt/etc in the split second it happened, I just don't think that is fair.

From the angle he was at, it appears he was behind his son (off to the right of screen) so it's very possible he didn't clearly see how hard the man kicked his son. And again we have to think about the fact that it was under two seconds between the kick and the punch. To expect someone to be able to make all these rational observations and choices in such a short period of time, and after your child is assaulted, seems unreasonable.

The difference between kicking someone and kicking AT someone is irrelevant in this situation. Kicking at someone is still an aggressive, threatening move, I don't think anybody would disagree with that. It's no different than doing a "fake punch" where you act like you are going to punch someone very hard and then hold back at the last minute. At the very least that's called intimidation, and if someone is appearing to make an attempt at intimidating a kid their threat level isn't much lower than one who would kick a kid.

Bottom line is that the man presented himself as a threat to the child, and it was not only the father's right but responsibility to remove that threat from his child. The fight or flight response is a real, factual thing, and making judgements on whether someone should fight or fly (especially when said judgement worked out perfectly for keeping one safe) just isn't fair or just.

In your ideal world maybe taking the time to stop and think "hey what is going on here" works, in the real world it doesn't. When the "bad guys" are doing "bad things" they don't tend to give you enough time to thoroughly think a situation though and carry every possible thought process to its conclusion. You react, and react quickly to ensure the safety of you and yours, which is exactly what this father is.

It turned out this wasn't a "bad guy doing bad things" (that we know of at least, who knows what else the man would have done do the child) but why do you expect people to risk their own lives and safety (or the lives and safety of their child) by giving others who are already demonstrating violent behavior the benefit of the doubt?

Should I risk my life and safety by avoiding to respond to threats on the off chance it's just a mentally challenged man acting inappropriate, and not a true threat? How is that fair to demand of the general population, that they surrender their will to defend themselves in order to accommodate a tiny segment who are threatening them?



posted on Nov, 9 2013 @ 06:23 AM
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HelenConway
reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee
 


Rubbish - he is NOT defending his son . His son was unhurt,
What he was doing was role modelling violence and defunct impulse control - yea great dad . NOT,


So if someone pulls a gun on you, and you shoot them before they shoot you, you weren't defending yourself because you were unharmed? What sense does that make?

The man proved he was a threat to the child. You do not go up to children and kick them (or kick at them, whatever the heck that is) that is threatening, pretty much ANY adult would take that as threatening behavior.

How do you know what was in the mind of the man? How do you know he wasn't going to do anything else to the boy? You know for a fact that the man wasn't planning or capable or any additional attacks to the boy? If someone goes around "kicking at" children it seems the chance of them going something even more violent would be much higher.

Better yet, how do you expect the father to know what was in the head of the man? How do you expect the father to know if the man was done assaulting his child (regardless of your personal views legally this is considered assault) or would continue to do something to him?

You don't know any of that, you can't. You cannot know what's in the head of the man, and it's not the responsibility of the father to risk his own child's safety on the possibility that the man was "JUST kicking at his kid' and wasn't going to do anythign else.



posted on Nov, 9 2013 @ 07:17 AM
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Text
In your ideal world maybe taking the time to stop and think "hey what is going on here" works, in the real world it doesn't. When the "bad guys" are doing "bad things" they don't tend to give you enough time to thoroughly think a situation though and carry every possible thought process to its conclusion. You react, and react quickly to ensure the safety of you and yours, which is exactly what this father is.
reply to post by James1982
 


Yes Yes Yes .. correct ISH.

Not in my ideal world but in a balanced world - men of violence / women of violence have a lack of impulse control and they are brain damaged.

They have no filter whereby they can assess/ reason / make good decisions..

If you react and react quickly without assessing correctly then you are a nutter and you ARE the problem.



posted on Nov, 9 2013 @ 12:52 PM
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reply to post by James1982
 




You said >>>"Depending on how busy the place is?".... Well I think that goes without
saying as there are no other customers waiting How busy can that be ??

I didn't 'assume' the father had anything with him, I said "he came in empty handed"
(which he did) in the ensuing scuffle what appears to be a beaker appears on the
ground. My point being if he came in empty handed why would he pick it up and take
it with him when he left? Particularly when he is 'assumed' to be so full of concern
about his son being assaulted.

As he walks away he does not acknowledge his son .... his son follows
him out. I think the reactions of a concerned parent in said situation would be to go
down to the child's level to reassure them and to ascertain that they had not been
hurt in any way.

As for motives you ask be it cash or acclaim .... well I think everyone knows a 'jack
the lad' who consider themselves some thing of 'wag' a 'practical joker' 'anything for
a laugh' 'the life and soul of the party' type who get their kicks from simply fooling
people.


And yes we are all having to make assumptions on a short video, and for that reason
'body language' is important ... 'actions speak louder than words'?



posted on Nov, 9 2013 @ 01:26 PM
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HelenConway
reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee
 


Rubbish - he is NOT defending his son . His son was unhurt,
What he was doing was role modelling violence and defunct impulse control - yea great dad . NOT,


If I saw my son being attacked, I would not be thinking about role modelling or impulse control.

I would move with blind fury intent on absolutely nothing but stopping the direct and immediate threat that I see against my son. Nothing would stop me short of my physical inability to continue defending my son with every ounce of my being.

So yeah, GREAT dad.



posted on Nov, 9 2013 @ 03:22 PM
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I saw some ugly stuff while growing up. Kids are not smart. Thing is, some of the smartest things I saw came from somebody who had down syndrome. He was a couple grades ahead of me. He got teased a lot but one day he came out and protected me from a bully. Now I know people with down syndrome have problems understand things, but they're not as incapable as people make them out to be.

Did the kid say something like "Are you retarded?" Maybe the guy with down syndrome misinterpreted it or somehow knew the kid and reacted the wrong way. It's hard for me to imagine he'd kick the other kid with no reason. Even people with down syndrome have a reason for doing things; they're not that random.

The guy with down syndrome will hopefully learn form this not to kick others even if they partially deserve it. When I was growing up there were a lot of painful lessons.

Don't forget even normal people without mental disabilities can act wrongly. It happens everyday. Don't judge someone who has down syndrome.
edit on 9-11-2013 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2013 @ 04:32 PM
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HelenConway




Yes Yes Yes .. correct ISH.

Not in my ideal world but in a balanced world - men of violence / women of violence have a lack of impulse control and they are brain damaged.

They have no filter whereby they can assess/ reason / make good decisions..

If you react and react quickly without assessing correctly then you are a nutter and you ARE the problem.


Please tell me, how do you assess this situation correctly? It's easy to judge the father, but you provide zero answers yourself.

Please answer, how is the father supposed to know that the man was done assaulting the child? How do you expect the father to read minds and know what the man was planning on doing with the child?

There is NO way for the father to know what the man was going to do. Was the man going to come back in for another kick, and actually hurt the child this time? Was the man going to come in a punch the child? Maybe pull out a weapon? The father has NO way of knowing, and YOU have NO way of knowing, so you cannot fairly judge the father.

I figure you'll probably ignore me once again since you can't answer the question, but why do you think it's safe to assume the man wasn't going to continue assaulting the child?



posted on Nov, 9 2013 @ 04:43 PM
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reply to post by James1982
 


James - that man who attacked the young man with downs syndrome was a violent thug.

Any normal man would have gone to their child - moved them out of any real or perceived danger.

THEN - he would have turned to the alleged perpetrator and asked ' what the hell is going on here '?

Just because you agree with violence and support men who lack judgement and lack an emotional filter - does not mean it is right.

It is simple really.

The correct response, was not one that involved attacking a vulnerable young man - I hope the man / violent thug who did this was arrested and charged.
edit on 9-11-2013 by HelenConway because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2013 @ 04:47 PM
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jonnywhite


Did the kid say something like "Are you retarded?" Maybe the guy with down syndrome misinterpreted it or somehow knew the kid and reacted the wrong way. It's hard for me to imagine he'd kick the other kid with no reason. Even people with down syndrome have a reason for doing things; they're not that random.



Did you watch the video? The kid was not interacting with the man in any way, it appears he was trying to talk to a guy behind the counter or something. They were facing opposite directions and were at least 10 feet away from each other.


Don't forget even normal people without mental disabilities can act wrongly. It happens everyday. Don't judge someone who has down syndrome.


Don't judge someone who has downs? Because people with downs are incapable of making choices to do the wrong thing? You are basically saying that people with downs can do no wrong, how is that a reasonable assessment? People with downs are capable of being jerks just like anyone else is.

I'm not sure if you missed it earlier in this thread, but I mentioned a few times how I know two people with downs who I would consider friends (kind of extended family, friend of the family type situation) They both know very well right from wrong. They would be personally offended to hear someone telling them they don't know right from wrong, and can't be held responsible for their actions.

One of them is more "with it" than the other, and often times will correct the other one when he is getting out of line. I showed him the video and spoke with him about it. His first words after viewing the video were "I don't like it" and he was visibly upset. I thought he was upset about the man getting punched, but he was actually very upset about the child getting kicked.

I didn't tell him anything about the man having downs until after he saw the video, and it didn't change his opinion. He still felt bad for the kid and was angry at the disabled man. Well, I don't know if angry, but he said he wasn't very nice. I was considering getting the opinion of the other one, but I don't think that would be best as he is less able to deal with that type of thing.

So are people with downs able to judge other people with downs? Because one just did, and felt the same way as many of us.
edit on 9-11-2013 by James1982 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2013 @ 04:56 PM
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HooHaa

I don't think that the mans affliction was downs.. I'm saying this because my ex had an uncle who had downs(he's passed) and I've been around quite a few others.. They are in my opinion the sweetest, gentle, most loving souls I've ever encountered..

He has downs features. I've spent many years working with mentally disabled people and I hate that 'sweet, gentle' stereotype of people with downs syndrome. It's almost denying them personality variation and the 'right' to be crotchety, mean or whatever! As bad as Stepford wives!
First he's a kid kicking out at a younger kid. It doesn't even look as though the kick really connected. And it was a single kick not a sustained attack. So the father while rightly annoyed totally overreacts.
You see kids being mean to other kids all the time. It doesn't mean a full sized adult has the right to take them down. Sheesh..
We can't use this footage to make general assumptions about disability and it certainly doesn't mean all disabled people need a 24/7 guard!



posted on Nov, 9 2013 @ 04:59 PM
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reply to post by James1982
 


How well a person with downs syndrome acts depends on a lot. I know two. One is not very well behaved, the other is. The one that is well behaved, her parents had her in special education since three years old. The one that is not, he did not get put into any special education until 5, and the family moved like every year and a half for criminal issues.



posted on Nov, 9 2013 @ 05:00 PM
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truthermantwo
Show them love, give them wonderful experiences and they will react positively. Instead of shocking their brains, use holistic medicine coupled with logic building and reason development techniques. HELP THEM, stop treating mental illness like the reject words you imply it to be.

Please read up on the difference between mental illness and learning disability (of which Downs is a form).
edit on 9-11-2013 by starchild10 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2013 @ 05:03 PM
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reply to post by starchild10
 


Yes, you can tell looking at their faces. I don't know how to describe it, but they have certain facial features that stand out, even if they are wearing glasses.



posted on Nov, 9 2013 @ 05:32 PM
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HelenConway
reply to post by James1982
 


James - that man who attacked the young man with downs syndrome was a violent thug.

Any normal man would have gone to their child - moved them out of any real or perceived danger.

THEN - he would have turned to the alleged perpetrator and asked ' what the hell is going on here '?

Just because you agree with violence and support men who lack judgement and lack an emotional filter - does not mean it is right.

It is simple really.

The correct response, was not one that involved attacking a vulnerable young man - I hope the man / violent thug who did this was arrested and charged.
edit on 9-11-2013 by HelenConway because: (no reason given)


That was a pretty good deflection there, lots of words but no actual answer. You just aren't being realistic.

I'm done discussing this with you. You are evidently one of those people that don't feel that a person has a right to defend themselves and their families. We just differ on the base concept here. When someone attacks me or my child, they are a threat regardless of their mental state, and they WILL be taken down.

You evidently put greater importance in the well being of a stranger than of your own child. I cannot accept or respect that. I truly hope you never get into any danger in your life, and never have to defend a loved one or family member, because if that time comes you'll realize how incredibly naive you are, and how woefully inadequate your current plan on dealing with physical conflict is.

I know for a fact that MY plan on dealing with physical conflict WORKS, because I wouldn't be alive today if it didn't. I've been in multiple, REAL life, REAL world situations were my life and safety was being threatened by others. Every time I reacted just like the father in this video, and every time I've made it out alive.

If I would have taken your advice, I'd be dead right now, that's a fact. When your safety is at stake you must act IMMEDIATELY. There is NO TIME to sit around and ponder things like you suggest. So your view may make you feel warm and fuzzy, it may make you feel superior or more evolved than us apes, but guess what? Your wrong, your plan is wrong, your view is wrong, and I know this for a fact because I actually have been in situations where your ideas would have gotten me killed.

Your ideas = Injury and/or death

My ideas = carrying on alive and well

I don't have to imagine these things, I don't have to think "what if" or "maybe" I KNOW what works and what doesn't, and what you propose does NOT work and is a great way to get yourself injured. Once again, I truly hope you never actually have to put your money where your mouth is. I don't mean that in a snide sarcastic way, I honestly hope you are never in danger, because it's obvious you are incapable of dealing with danger in a realistic manner.



posted on Nov, 9 2013 @ 05:35 PM
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TKDRL
reply to post by James1982
 


How well a person with downs syndrome acts depends on a lot. I know two. One is not very well behaved, the other is. The one that is well behaved, her parents had her in special education since three years old. The one that is not, he did not get put into any special education until 5, and the family moved like every year and a half for criminal issues.


That's exactly my point. People with downs are are still people. They are still capable of their own individual personality. They are still capable of being jerks, of doing things they know are wrong. Some people in this thread make it seem as if people with downs aren't even people, and are incapable of malice or any sort of negativity.




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