Science 101 – Science is a whore!

reply to post by pheonix358

Science is a field of study and work. The only people involved are scientists. Science is a closed shop, i.e. only people with science degrees are allowed in, only people with science degrees teach at universities. The entire science community is restricted to scientists.

I do not believe you can separate 'science' from 'scientists.'

You are wrong.

Anyone can "do" science - kids in school "do science" all the time, you can "do" science at home. All it requires is to follow the method.

high falutin' science that is taught at university and beyond is just that - cutting edge stuff that requires a great deal of testing, recording and analysis that is beyond the means of ordinary folk.

but that doesn't make "kitchen sink science" non-scientific!

see science you can do at home

Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by pheonix358

 

You are wrong.

Anyone can "do" science - kids in school "do science" all the time, you can "do" science at home. All it requires is to follow the method.

high falutin' science that is taught at university and beyond is just that - cutting edge stuff that requires a great deal of testing, recording and analysis that is beyond the means of ordinary folk.

but that doesn't make "kitchen sink science" non-scientific!

see science you can do at home

edit on 6-11-2013 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)

To add to this comment, there are plenty of small startups and DIY-type "biohackers" doing fairly cutting-edge science on their own (here's an interesting article from Wired Magazine about people building their own labs outside traditional academia and industry). Sure, money places huge constraints on what you can do with little or no funding, but you'd be surprised how creative smart people can get. I know a man who scavenges parts from trash (literally - things that are being thrown out) and builds electron microscopes. You can sometimes find amazing deals on used scientific equipment on eBay, even...

If you have the desire, you, too, can be a part of the evil entity known as "Science"!

Seriously, though, "Science" is not a single monolithic entity, nor is it a hermetically-sealed world that's inaccessible to "normal people." People from all parts of the world use and contribute to "Science" every day. I can't get behind the idea of lumping the whole deal together and calling it a "whore" because of the actions of some individuals, the trends in some industries, the uses some technologies have been put to, etc.

reply to post by pheonix358


Yep, and in Washington State, "scientists" used corporate and government sponsored studies to prove that GMO foods are perfectly safe. Because Dupont and Monsanto fed more than $22 million into the state for attack ads, the initiative to label GMO foods failed here.

At the anti-GMO labeling "party" downtown, there was absolutely no one there on election night. Some single corporate shill finally came into the room and made an annoucement for the cameras. Otherwise, crickets the whole night. Very creepy and shows what out of state conglomerates can do.

In this case, it was agribusiness, biotech, pharmaceuticals, and medicine that all combined to defeat this. We all need to be sick so the health industries can feed off our misery, and the GMO foods will make us sick, as will the Roundup.

I could go on about how slanted the science was, but suffice to say, real peer-reviewed scientific studies that show the dangers of GMO foods and bioengeering are shot down immediately by the press, which is sponsored by the corporations, etc. It's all interlinked and it was a real wake up call here to just how deep the pockets of the anti-Christ are.

Science is a tool used by both good and bad people. Look at all the good things science has done lately. They developed safe and clean nuclear po....oh sorry I guess that is coated with lies. Lets try another one, they invented antibiotics to cure our disea....oops. messed up again, I guess those were created to evolve bacteria, not humans. I'll think of something that science has done right. It may take me a few hours to find something that actually benefits mankind more than it hinders us but I am sure I can come up with something that hasn't eventually bit us in the a$$

rickymouse
Science is a tool used by both good and bad people. Look at all the good things science has done lately. They developed safe and clean nuclear po....oh sorry I guess that is coated with lies. Lets try another one, they invented antibiotics to cure our disea....oops. messed up again, I guess those were created to evolve bacteria, not humans. I'll think of something that science has done right. It may take me a few hours to find something that actually benefits mankind more than it hinders us but I am sure I can come up with something that hasn't eventually bit us in the a$$

He said as he uses a computer, in a nice air-conditioned house, with clean clothing, after having taken a nice hot shower. Etc.

If you like dressing in skins and dying at 25, the wild life is the way to go. Me, I like even little things, like concrete.

I suspect 10,000 years ago, the leather cup people were kvetching about that new-fangled clay pottery invention, and belly-aching that you could cut yourself on the pieces if you dropped it.

reply to post by rickymouse


You could add DDT, Silicon breast implants, Fluoridation of water, Thalidomide, '___', hell, the list is endless!

P

pheonix358
reply to post by rickymouse

 

You could add DDT, Silicon breast implants, Fluoridation of water, Thalidomide, '___', hell, the list is endless!

P

Nice cherry-picking. Anyone without such a blinding anti-science bias could also come up with an equally endless list of incredibly important, beneficial contributions, but I'm afraid anything put forth would somehow be construed as "evil" by at least some here.

pheonix358
reply to post by rickymouse

 

You could add DDT, Silicon breast implants, Fluoridation of water, Thalidomide, '___', hell, the list is endless!

P

How about shrinks turning normal crazy people into mental patients? The whores!

pheonix358
reply to post by rickymouse

 

You could add DDT,

Still the insecticide of choice in many places around the world and on of hte great success stories in hygiene and disease prevention during WW2

Silicon breast implants,

Still the plastic surgery of choice for many women - and just the tail end of the scientific revolution of medicine

Fluoridation of water,

Still one of the most efficacious and useful public health initiatives of the 20th century

Thalidomide,

The drug of choice for treatment of Leprosy in Brazil, and approved for such by the FDA in 1998, although hte WHO recommends clofazimine

Also the drug of choice in combination with others for treating myeloma cancers since the early 2000's

'___',

Legally approved for regulatd psychiatric use in Switzerland until 1993, but also being explored as treatment for anxiety these days - linkey-poo through that other scientific disaster the interwebnets

hell, the list is endless!

P

No - any list of anything "science" has "done" is finite.

It is only the imagination of he ignorant that is endless.

I think there's a lot of misconceptions about tabbacco. Like think about weed. It's good for you but tabcacco isn't?? No not at all!! tabbacco is good for you in some ways. It's not that different that hard liquor. It's got a medicinal quality. It provides a bit of a euforia, calm, buz or whatever. The problem is that the cigarettes that are sold are FULL OF addictive chemicals. All those chemicals are what harms you. But if you were grow your own straight tabacco leaves and make cigs and cigars, you'd be fine.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Further to the doing science at home thing, it's as simple as making a cup of coffee.

Roasting, grinding, brewing, dissolving in the hot water.

It's all scientific baby and no scientist needed to do it.

To think, some people think they need a scientist to make them a cup of coffee!!

reply to post by pheonix358


I can sympathize with this OP. It does seem like science has sold out because it seems the only science that gets done is bought & paid for by the highest bidders... as was mentioned... Big Pharma, Big Tobacco, Big Oil, or Big Gov (which includes the Pentagon and the supporting academic structures which churn out new weapons development & black budget research.)

Science has lost it's way, science is no longer about revolutionary thoughts and methods, science is now about conforming to corporate directives, government regulation and media propaganda.

Modern Science, has cynically become, a paycheck, a tenure, a prize to be won.
Modern science has been made the servant of corporations and patent lawyers.
Modern science is no longer about discovery of the natural world... science has become 'method' for the corporations to justify genetic patents on modified plant species!

OP is right, science has become a whore.

DenyObfuscation

pheonix358
reply to post by rickymouse

 

You could add DDT, Silicon breast implants, Fluoridation of water, Thalidomide, '___', hell, the list is endless!

P

How about shrinks turning normal crazy people into mental patients? The whores!

hahaha.. in the old days, a hyper-active kid running around chasing dogs or birds is just that--hyper-active. now they diagnose it as ADD. here's one hideous scenario that happened in korea recently that describes your statement above.

Korean Mother Kills Her Child Because of Autism

Bedlam

rickymouse
Science is a tool used by both good and bad people. Look at all the good things science has done lately. They developed safe and clean nuclear po....oh sorry I guess that is coated with lies. Lets try another one, they invented antibiotics to cure our disea....oops. messed up again, I guess those were created to evolve bacteria, not humans. I'll think of something that science has done right. It may take me a few hours to find something that actually benefits mankind more than it hinders us but I am sure I can come up with something that hasn't eventually bit us in the a$$

He said as he uses a computer, in a nice air-conditioned house, with clean clothing, after having taken a nice hot shower. Etc.

If you like dressing in skins and dying at 25, the wild life is the way to go. Me, I like even little things, like concrete.

I suspect 10,000 years ago, the leather cup people were kvetching about that new-fangled clay pottery invention, and belly-aching that you could cut yourself on the pieces if you dropped it.

It is the exploitation of the science by those who would profit by controlling it that is bad, not science itself. It is the suppression of science, using corrupt applications of science, by those who would lose money if the science was implemented that is bad. It seems that science is misused more than it is used properly.

Look at medicines, they study the properties of herbs and foods and they design medicines out of them instead of telling us to eat foods that will take care of the problem. Look at all the energy saving devices that were killed because they would cause a negative economic impact to this and other countries. Oil companies are tied to an extremely high amount of jobs throughout many industries. Suppression of the truth is also done using science.

I sit in my warm home and type on a computer, that is true. I am drinking a cup of coffee that is designed using science. I cook using recipes that are also science. Science is a big part of everyone's life. I do not like the way that science is exploited and manipulated by some people, especially those who exclude testing of their products that could show it is not good for humanity. The regulations governing this testing do not require additional testing because it does not apply to the regulations....regulations created by people in the same field. This opens the door to future problems because concerns were ignored. This is not science that is bad, it is the regulation of the creation of science that is bad.

Was the Creation of the Atom bomb bad? Originally it stopped a war. But look at all the nukes out there today and the cost to the citizens of the countries that built them. Look at all the testing to build bigger bombs that was done. We now have raised levels in all the trees around the world and in all the animals. They have found recently that underground testing is very bad, it effects the crust of the whole world. An accident isn't an accident if you learn from it, it is a learning experience. It seems we have more and more true accidents because we ignore the reason why things go wrong, undeniable specific relevant proof is needed to stop utilizing something we have been doing. Protection of misguided science, using laws created by tptb who can profit by this, is often done.

I am not against science, I just notice that it is misused more than it is used properly.

AlphaHawk
reply to post by pheonix358

 

Well, the broad generalisation will get you a tonne of flags here.

You know your target audience well.

Simple.
Ignorant.

Sounds like you have a problem with the politicization of science, but taking in mind the types above, that word is too big to understand.

Besides, concentrating on a real issue like the politicization of science won't yield anywhere near as many flags!

If science is so crap, how about you abstain from it?

What he is saying is largely correct, SCIENCE is different. For one thing research is largely conducted by MD's, you can argue the reasons for this, but it is being done. MD's think differently than research based PHD's do generally. There are those now that pick up both degrees in school but it is not the same.

I get that you want to sound smart by being a "defender" of science, but the science of today is largely crap, everything from the reasons its being done to the way it is done. There is no such thing as the "politicization of science", science is not some pure entity, just a way humans discover things.

pheonix358
reply to post by rickymouse

 

You could add DDT, Silicon breast implants, Fluoridation of water, Thalidomide, '___', hell, the list is endless!

P

Let's see. DDT, though with nasty environmental effects, saved many thousands or millions from malaria.

Flouridation has saved plenty of people from needless unpleasant drilling, and mercury fillings.

Thalidomide---well, it became a treatment for terminal multiple myeloma, and a successor molecule is now a huge seller for Celgene.

Lucy in the Sky with Diamond: has hardly hurt many people and provided entertainment before the X-box.

Silicone breast implants? Provided employment opportunities for millions of people previously ineligible as a consequence of genetics.

You gots a problem?

SayonaraJupiter
reply to post by pheonix358

 

I can sympathize with this OP. It does seem like science has sold out because it seems the only science that gets done is bought & paid for by the highest bidders...

When nobody else is paying, is it 'selling out', or just 'working'.

spartacus699
if you were grow your own straight tabacco leaves and make cigs and cigars, you'd be fine.

Unless you smoked them, that is.

It ain't just the additives. Straight up 1859 slave-picked natural tobaccy is addictive and mutagenic. Oh, one of its toxic modalities is that it concentrates radioactive Polonium-210 and deposits it in your lungs.

Putin assassinated a defector with it.

reply to post by mbkennel


I often say "Science is a whore" in the middle of tensors. At least I do if I don't have Mathematica on the system I'm working on.

Something like:

"Ah, crap, non-planar network analysis. Here come the tensors...dammit. I'll whup out Mathematica then. #. #. #. Who set this system up? No Mathematica? #."

(gets out a pencil - slog slog slog slog... answer: 1=2)

"Science is a whore"

The peer-review system is one of the oldest ways science has used to verify itself however like anything, it is open to abuse. Does one or two bad studies mean the whole of the peer-review system is tainted though?
No, it certainly doesn't.
Here's one way the peer-review system is modernising itself

www.theguardian.com...

One conspiracy that always goads me is the "Big Pharma won't let it happen" one.
This is usually propagated by those who have no clue how medical science works.

There are thousands of examples of why this is completely untrue but let me tell you mine.

Atrial Fibrillation (AF) is THE most common heart problem in the world bar none.
It's responsible for more hospital admissions than virtually any other disease and is the leading cause of strokes in the adult population.
There's a a saying that "AF begets AF" which means the longer you have episodes of it, the longer subsequent episodes will become and these will be more prevalent leading to permanent AF.
Up until fairly recently the only course of action to treat AF was with drugs. This is a cash-cow for pharma as billions upon billions of dollars worth of these drugs are prescribed worldwide every year.
There is/was a surgical procedure which had a reasonable success rate for curing AF but there is a relatively high mortality rate for this and it's a hugely invasive procedure. Essentially they slice the heart into sections and sew it back together again to interrupt the electrical circuits which propagate the AF.
en.wikipedia.org...


There's a minimally invasive technique which has been going since the 1980's called cardiac radio-frequency ablation. As it's name (possibly!) suggests, this uses very high frequency electricity to ablate or burn parts of the heart and this is used to stop dangerously fast rhythms, tachycardia from occurring.
As we say, dead meat don't beat.
In the late 80's I was involved in early attempts to replicate the Cox-Maze but using ablation rather than incisions. We had some success but not really enough to warrant us using it as an alternative treatment to medication. However a discovery was made which suggested that if we just burn around the pulmonary veins in the left atrium (where all AF starts) we could block AF from starting so in people who had only just developed AF there was a good chance of a "cure".
Meaning not having a lifetime of expensive drugs, some with quite unpleasant side-effects.

Since this was quite experimental, there was a lot of Heath-Robinson type machines and equipment in use as we used to have to make them ourselves but as time went on a few small companies started making bespoke equipment for this procedure.
Cut a long story short, this PV Isolation procedure now has around a 60-80% success rate in curing paroxsysmal AF (AF which spontaneously starts and stops for no reason, usually in short bursts but if left will lead to chronic or permanent AF, which is bad) and has cost the pharma companies $BILLIONS in lost revenue.
Sure, they attempted to say the procedure wasn't as effective as drug therapy but as our technique became more specific and refined they had no choice other than to admit defeat.

Not once did we have anyone from Big Pharma coming in and trying to silence us.
I've never been offered big money to be silenced and as far as I'm aware, I'm still alive as are my colleagues.

What has happened is that the small companies which helped develop the technique have all now been bought out by big device companies (and in one case a very big pharma company indeed) and the technique developed even further.
If there's money to be made you can bet your last penny that big pharma will want to get their fingers into it.
But only if a technique is successful.
The last thing they will want to do is silence it.