Science 101 – Science is a whore!

Science is a whore? Nah, wouldn't agree to that.

Sure, some very smart scientists and engineers end up working with Pharma companies, Tobacco companies, and even government defense programs making bombs and other devices.

But scientists are just like anybody else, if they are given a bunch of money, they'll do as their told, and make whatever their told to make.

Science has brought us scary things such as the atom bomb, and nuclear weapons, but science has also given us the capability to send a man to and from the moon.

Science turns into knowledge, and knowledge is power. And of course people are going to abuse it. Just like people can abuse shopping, eating, drugs, coffee, and so on. Science in general isn't bad, although bad people will use it in their favor.

reply to post by pheonix358

I have lost all faith in science and that for me is epically sad. We have never really been able to trust our Governments. Big business has always looked at profits only and the last bastion, Science, has fallen.

You forgot organized religion.

reply to post by pheonix358

Science isn't a whore.
Some scientists might be whores, some are not.

I think you've confused the scientific process, with the people that use it.
You may as well claim cars are evil because drunk drivers use them to run over and kill people.

This is a problem with the drunk drivers, not with the cars, just as whore scientists don't prove that science is bad somehow.

I can't help but get the feeling that a lot of ATS posters would have been better suited to live in the Dark Ages, or made excellent inquisitors during the Enlightenment. Minds preoccupied with conspiracist ideation and full of superstition.

We all know of Da Vinci's genius today. However, during his time, his insights into the human body helped no one through medicine and the majority of his engineering expertise went to manufacturing weapons of war. Medicine was not advanced thanks to the overreach of the church and it's claim that the human body belonged to a personal god, therefore the church. So, he had to keep his findings about the workings of the body secret . . . or face death. While he painted and helped with the occasional civic engineering project, the majority of his livelihood came from manufacturing war machines for his maniacal benefactors (albeit many were too far ahead of their time to be employed).

Today, scientists who are employed by the pharma industry, work to ease the ills of humans. They do this not to capitalize, as the profits are held by those who fund their work (the chemists, biochemists, molecular biologists are simply paid a salary), but to advance knowledge and (for many) to have their findings published. The scientists don't decide what does or doesn't see the market, or even how those drugs are used. They simply come up with new compounds and report on the effects (good and bad) of the compound. From there, it is up to the company and the government to "capitalize" on the compound . . . they funded the work and hold the patents. The same goes for those engineers and scientists that work for defense contractors, etc.

And while many rail against the "evils" of science; they sit behind their computers, enjoying more food available to them than anytime in history to the point most in the U.S. are obese, with the ability to travel anywhere in the world in a matter of hours, with no fear of dying from the simplest cut or contraction of the flu, with the most complete knowledge of the universe and this planet in human history, living the least harsh existence and longest life span humans have enjoyed since the dawn of civilization thanks to technological and medical advances . . . all of it brought to them by . . . wait for it . . . science! And more importantly, by the brave souls who worked on advancing this knowledge through almost 2000 years of such work being a death sentence, those who actually seek to advance human knowledge through their tenacity and creativity without the proper credit or compensation, and those that choose to actually explore the limits of what is possible. However, in these modern times (by example of this thread and the users of ATS, in general), they are still facing the same superstitious insecurities, misplaced aggression, and torch waving ignorance.

Yes . . . we should all show our disdain for those "scientists" and the methods they use . . . after all you're the monkeys that have been trained to use the talking picture boxes needed to participate in these forums, which is vastly more superior. Deny ignorance . . . huh?

Those of you against the OP are taking this "whore" thing too seriously.
I see what he means and it's quite clear.

Science, like everything else in the universe, isn't good or bad. It's what we do with it that counts.

The ways things are now, there is no denying that making money is more important than happiness and technological advancement. This doesn't mean that science can't bring happiness and advancement, but those are not the priorities of most scientist and the people funding them.

Scientific validation goes to the highest bidder, which in broader terms means : Science is a whore.

I don't see why some of you need to start acting like smartasses in denying this.

reply to post by InFriNiTee

So many people could be off of assistance programs if they could be cured of MS, Diabetes, Arthritis, Heart Problems, Cancer, AIDS, need I say more?

Considering the claims, yes I would think you need to say more. Maybe not here though. Start a thread and let's see what you think you have.

reply to post by DenyObfuscation


I won't start a new thread. Just look at the statistics: Diabetes costs the American taxpayer well over $100 billion a year. The total cost of diabetes between types 1 and 2 in America is close to $300 billion a year. The taxes that are made off of the corporations that supply all the medicines to "treat" diabetes are far less than a cure could generate. Just 1 diabetic trip to the hospital before insurance coverage runs anywhere from $5000 all the way up into the $50,000 or more if the patient goes into diabetic coma.

It would truly cost far less to cure the disease. Heck there are several companies out there that have done it. The companies that produce all of the supplies are the "science whores." Sure it will keep a person alive, but at what cost to the individual and to the system?

I will stand to be corrected, if there ever is a true cure for any of the autoimmune diseases that are out there. Only if the masses can get it though.

Science is a whore lol....

Science has been pimped out to the highest bidders, but has never laid down without having facts to back that ass up.

pheonix358

This is the first part of a multipart series on the woes of modern science.

Back in the mid seventies was when I started to notice that science was up for grabs to the highest bidder. Big Tobacco was the upstanding corporate citizen who was buying scientists to come up with some whorish ‘proof’ that smoking was, if not ‘good for ya’ would certainly not harm anyone.

The studies came thick and fast and the good guys were on the back foot. The good guys took almost a decade to eventually catch up and then overtake Big Tobacco’s strangle hold. Then Big Tobacco went into politics and is still going strong on that front.

Now it seems that no area of science is safe from whoredom. Global warming …. Oops, sorry guys, Global cooling, Oops, sorry guys, Climate change! Yea, climate change is for sale. So many scientists participating in whorish behavior all for the almighty proverbial thirty pieces of silver.

Big Pharma pays huge money for scientists to come up with some very questionable but amazingly profitable drugs to foist onto the public.

Oh, there are so many examples. When you include multinational corporations efforts in Politics you even get to the stage where honest scientists are being either muzzled by Governments, Canada springs to mind, or ridiculed for decent work. Even the peer review process is simply a group of whores commenting on one of their own.

I have lost all faith in science and that for me is epically sad. We have never really been able to trust our Governments. Big business has always looked at profits only and the last bastion, Science, has fallen.

Part two will look at the anonymous scientist.

So sad.

P

Unfortunately science isn't to blame here it's the organizations that use science for their purposes. It's kind of like how religious groups take bits and pieces from the bible, torah or koran to justify their views on how society should work. I would look past the science and look at the people using science to justify their ends.

Ether OP is ignorant or catering to ignorant majority.

First of all Science is not Big pharma.. what the OP is doing is putting his anti-science opinion attaching to big pharma so people who hate big phrama will hate science as well.

OP should have made a thread saying

"I hate Vaccine, Flu shot, Science, Evolution, Big Pharma, Terrorist, Obama, Drugs, Sugar, Fluoride and Big government... they are evil... Aren't i right guys!?"

because this is much better ways to get stars and flags on ATS.


Science is a process of learning, if you hate it so much, stop using things like computer, electronics, roads, cars, your house, heating, air conditioning, TV, cream, eye glasses, pacemakers... like 99% of everything you know, including breathing(its science based, thus its EVILLLLL).

Instead of generalizing science, you should be focused on certain panels of scientist(remember not all) that get bought to do individual study to promote a biased, slightly skewered, ambiguous answer.

Science is fine - it's the people who can't do science or read papers who are in trouble. The examples you provide are just reasons for people to study science and to look at claims objectively rather than assume they're true.

Also the minority of Scientists that deny anthropogenic climate change are funded by petro-chemical companies so you got that one the wrong way around.

reply to post by Asktheanimals


The best response so far is from AsktheAnimals right there on page 1.

There is a very real trend of scientists neglecting the responsibilities that come with a PhD. After a person jumps through all of the hoops and earns one, his word is taken as modern gospel by the ignorant masses. In haste to stand on the tallest shoulders, other scientists sometimes fail to verify the findings of their peers. Manmade global warming is a perfect example, though it was also backed by non-scientists with motives other than discovery...

I heard of a study not too long ago (no time to dig for it now) that showed an unprecedented increase in fraudulent/inaccurate submissions to scientific journals

pheonix358

This is the first part of a multipart series on the woes of modern science.

Back in the mid seventies was when I started to notice that science was up for grabs to the highest bidder. Big Tobacco was the upstanding corporate citizen who was buying scientists to come up with some whorish ‘proof’ that smoking was, if not ‘good for ya’ would certainly not harm anyone.

The studies came thick and fast and the good guys were on the back foot. The good guys took almost a decade to eventually catch up and then overtake Big Tobacco’s strangle hold. Then Big Tobacco went into politics and is still going strong on that front.

Now it seems that no area of science is safe from whoredom. Global warming …. Oops, sorry guys, Global cooling, Oops, sorry guys, Climate change! Yea, climate change is for sale. So many scientists participating in whorish behavior all for the almighty proverbial thirty pieces of silver.

Big Pharma pays huge money for scientists to come up with some very questionable but amazingly profitable drugs to foist onto the public.

Oh, there are so many examples. When you include multinational corporations efforts in Politics you even get to the stage where honest scientists are being either muzzled by Governments, Canada springs to mind, or ridiculed for decent work. Even the peer review process is simply a group of whores commenting on one of their own.

I have lost all faith in science and that for me is epically sad. We have never really been able to trust our Governments. Big business has always looked at profits only and the last bastion, Science, has fallen.

Part two will look at the anonymous scientist.

So sad.

P

Tobbaco is good for you and so are sunbeds. All the healthy stuff gets banned. Humans have always lived in smokey environments and we need vit D.

paytaplay
Science is a whore lol....

Science has been pimped out to the highest bidders, but has never laid down without having facts to back that ass up.

no such thing as a fact

Thurisaz
reply to post by pheonix358

 

well Piltdown Hoax should be enough for anyone to understand the corruption of science.

So one hoax perpetrated a century ago negates all if evolutionary science ? Well I guess by that logic LDS and Scientology invalidate Christianity.

iamea
The only thing wrong with science is that it isn't ethical.

If the world of science ....

Again with the trying to make science a person??

Science isn't ethical because only people are ethical.

And the world of science isn't ethical because there is no such thing.

Science is just a method for investigating and making conclusions - and you can follow the method well or follow it badly - that is up to you to do.

Anthrpomorphising "science" is something that people who don't like the power of it seem to feel the need to do in order to give themselves a target to attack. That is also a perfectly human reaction to being told you are wrong my a really, really powerful method.

The power of the scientific method is also recognized by those who try to cadge a lift on it - putting "science" or scientific sounding words into woo and fable - eg "creation science", or "quantum healing", or trying to show that there is a "scientific basis" for this that or other snake oil.

peter vlar

Thurisaz
reply to post by pheonix358

 

well Piltdown Hoax should be enough for anyone to understand the corruption of science.

So one hoax perpetrated a century ago negates all if evolutionary science ? Well I guess by that logic LDS and Scientology invalidate Christianity.

And therefore FSM negates both of them - bless his noodly appendages!

Of course Piltdown Man was not "science" - it was fraud - but since these folks don't actually understand what science is it's no surprise they don't understand the difference!

sooner or later, science will become magic and sorcery. if unethical practices continue, what's to stop scientists from withholding knowledge to keep the upper hand ever widening the gap of power. because the knowledge will be withheld from the many to be controlled by the few, and how are we to trust that what they have published is honest and true?

it already happens in localized scenarios where the IT guy or mechanic knows better than you so he rigs the issue at hand so he can extort more money from you for unnecessary services. in science, it's much more widescale and worse.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Haha. I forgot about FSM. I wish he was around when I was in the army. They didnt appreciate agnostics back then now you can have it on your dog tags.

I had to leave the thread to get some sleep. I do this every night

Science is a field of study and work. The only people involved are scientists. Science is a closed shop, i.e. only people with science degrees are allowed in, only people with science degrees teach at universities. The entire science community is restricted to scientists.

I do not believe you can separate 'science' from 'scientists.'

At one time science had a conscious. As a collective, scientists strove for truth. At one time, science could not be bought, the peer review process saw to that quite well. Now, the entire structure races after grant money and as a result is more than willing to undertake research with pre-ordered outcomes. This is something that I have watched develop over time. Now, it is not the odd occurrence, it is the norm.

I stand by my convictions, science is a whore.

P