Would you rather live in China, Nazi Germany, or in the US in 2016?

This hypothetical scenario where Obama's administration manages to rewrite the laws to be re-elected for a third time and somehow wins and his fascist regime has been put into full motion. You get to pick where you want to live but you only have 3 choices. Those choices are China, Nazi Germany and a world where Obama continued to rule passed 2016. Which one do you pick? The one thing you cannot do (or anyone) is change how the governments worked and who's in there, so no rebellion is allowed in this scenario but standard warfare continues as business.

You now have to choose between Communist, Socialist, and Fascist. What is your pick and why?

You may be wondering why I'm asking this crazy question, but I'm interested in hearing thoughts around ATS. This is under the assumption that the US becomes a complete police/surveillance state. Please be civil!

reply to post by Em2013


None of the above, I'd go for Russia. China would be the next choice but not until about 2036, it will take that long for them to sort out their socio-political control issues.

Cheers - Dave

This is a bit of a silly discussion. For all the whining about the US, it remains a better nation to live in than China or Nazi Germany. If you think otherwise then you have lost the plot.

However, there are some history revisionists I have seen on ATS who seem to think Hitler was a pacifist and a jolly nice fellow, so I guess they would be happy to move there. Similarly, many people seem to be taken in by the Chinese propaganda that routinely covers up the fact that the nation remains a repressive and ultra dog-eat-dog society, with even greater extremes of wealth inequality than the US and zero human rights.

I suppose the proof is in the pudding. Apart from Snowdon, how many US citizens seek asylum in other countries. How many people fled the Nazi’s and why does every Western nation play host to millions of Chinese who have fled their “un-free” homeland?

Regards

Em2013
You now have to choose between Communist, Socialist, and Fascist.

All 3 choices are/were capitalist.

I'm sure there are those who will disagree and I'm convinced that nothing will change that.

I`d spend the first five years in Nazi Germany. Then, before all hell breaks loose Id move to the U.S. It takes about 7 years of socialism before a country descends into mass-poverty, crime and urban decay, so after another 5 years in the U.S. Id move to China. In 10 years China will have improved their overall standard of living a little, so Hong Kong is a safe bet. Id move to Shanghai or Hong Kong because they are alive with potential.

reply to post by Em2013


I don't think Nazi Germany really qualifies as "Socialist".
While Adolph called it "Socialism", it's a bit different.

There's Nazi National Socialism and Marxist Socialism.
Naziism and Socialism

Nazism and socialism have variously been seen as integrally related and utterly distinct. Nazism is the short form for "National Socialism" (German: Nationalsozialismus), and Nazi figures commonly declared the movement to be a revolutionary socialist movement that was anti-capitalist and anti-bourgeois. The Nazis applied a racist völkisch German nationalist interpretation of capitalism being an economic system created by Jews. At the same time the Nazis opposed Marxian socialism because its founder, Karl Marx was of Jewish descent, and views in contempt both communism and other variants of socialism linked to Marxism or Jewish figures. Mainstream socialists have rejected Nazism and do not recognize Nazism as a socialist movement. The far-right conservative nationalist German National People's Party that competed with the Nazis for support from nationalists, denounced the Nazis for being socialist while the Nazis denounced the DNVP for being reactionary and bourgeois.

He was clear to point on how he defined socialism "Our adopted term 'Socialist' has nothing to do with Marxian Socialism. Marxism is anti-property; true Socialism is not." --Adolf Hitler, Sunday Express, 28 September 1930

Thus, we have different forms of "Socialism", so, there's some distinction to be made in defining what kind of "Socialism" is meant.

Nazi Socialism allows for private property, for instance.
With Marxist Socialism, there's room for degrees, and more flexibility from extremes bordering on Communism, to passing nods enacted through programs like Public Schools, Socialized Healthcare, Social Security Benefits, and other such which don't infringe upon private ownership and control of wealth and private property.



In answer to the OP, I'm not in favor of any of the extremes presented or forecast.
Each example leads us to make a decision and value judgement on what we would define as the best out of only bad choices.

Given a choice, I'd go with option 4: Tear it all down and build something new.

Skyfloating
I`d spend the first five years in Nazi Germany. Then, before all hell breaks loose Id move to the U.S. It takes about 7 years of socialism before a country descends into mass-poverty, crime and urban decay, so after another 5 years in the U.S. Id move to China. In 10 years China will have improved their overall standard of living a little, so Hong Kong is a safe bet. Id move to Shanghai or Hong Kong because they are alive with potential.

edit on 6-11-2013 by Skyfloating because: (no reason given)

Brilliant response! As I say to kids when I have to take care of them "Here's one star for your good work".

why ask such a silly question

neither, of course!

Im american im proud to be so and would never abondon my country in a time of need here we have the oppurtunity to change things if we dont like it the people have a voice even if its a ever growing softer voice in the other countrys mentioned you would never have a voice even a small one and no way of making change from the bottom up

We still live in a great country just have to many complainers and not enough doers atm if you dont like the way its going vote. like obama or not the people voted him in twice just like bush jr i didnt like his policys and made sure i voted for change the change i got wasnt what i hoped for but ill be voting again real soon as should everyone else that doesnt like the current leaders

I'd prefer to live in mainland China dude.

It's a No-Brainer !

Obama's regime is decidedly COMMUNIST, not fascist. Our police though have obviously become fascists.

Nazi Germany before the war started (1932-1939) saw an absolutely astonishing financial recovery (think worse than current U.S. to THE world super power in 8 years!) It took the next three most powerful nations in the world working together for 4 years to bring them down!

History seems to focus on the events of 1942-1944 (namely the holocaust) and with good reason, but a lot of valuable lessons seem skimmed over in favor of getting to the big drama story. No one ever wants to tell you that Hitler succeeded in doing what Jefferson, Jackson and Lincoln also did, and warned us to remain vigilant about: They killed fractional reserve banking systems in their nations.

I hope one day we develop some quantum technology that allows us to peer into the past so we can see what really happened and where things went wrong in so many nations of the past.

Personally, I've already made plans to move my company and myself to Northern Europe in 2014. I see nothing but a bad future in store for the U.S. If I thought an honest politician could get somewhere, I'd run for office, but if a civil war breaks out, I plan to return to my home country and fight for the right side (liberty).

Oh how prescient the warnings of our founding fathers!

daskakik

Em2013
You now have to choose between Communist, Socialist, and Fascist.

All 3 choices are/were capitalist.

I'm sure there are those who will disagree and I'm convinced that nothing will change that.

You all mistaken if you mean to say that they are all FREE MARKET capitalists. Actually, all are corporatist/socialist. Look to Mussolini's definition of "fascism".

Obama is not a communist, he's a right-wing fiscally conservative capitalist.

Hitler was a conservative-minded fascist, not a socialist.

And the Chinese are essentially an oligarch capitalist dictatorship.

Taiwan .. most beautiful women in the world there .. great food ... politicians duke it out when they disagree .. havent been stateside since early 80 no intention of ever returning to that cesspool.. travel on my japanese passport I get no hassle from customs anywhere ..

Id rather live in Norway or maybe hongkong.


There are around 200 countrys in the world, some faluires, some succeses and some in between.

Why does it aways have to be a choice between USA or someone tyranical hell hole?

Or is the USA education system so poor you dont know there are other countrys in the world?

The US is nowhere near Nazi Germany, or China.

In 2016 I'll be living in the Yucatan in Mexico.

I'll have business here that would just get me by if I remained in the states, yet will put me upper middle class down there.

I choose to get out of the US more for all the red tape than anything else.

reply to post by Em2013


How about this hypothetical situation: What if Rand Paul and Ted Cruz come in to power, eliminate Social Security, Medicare the Federal Reserve Bank and put the US back on the gold standard, instantly bankrupting it. All federal, state and municipal taxes are outlawed, so that there are no services. Because money is worthless and there are no police, goods are all obtained by force and property is meaningless. Would you rather live there?

paraphi
This is a bit of a silly discussion. For all the whining about the US, it remains a better nation to live in than China or Nazi Germany. If you think otherwise then you have lost the plot.

It looks like that was the whole intent of the lame question. Its an old trick. Compare something bad with something much worse and you are forced into the proper conclusion. Like police state or SS run state and courts....which which! Having your legs broke or a cap in the back of the head.

Who in the h#ll cares what Nazi Germany and China are compared to what we are supposed to be? All we need to compare is the constitution to what goes on now and do something about it.

8675309jenny
Obama's regime is decidedly COMMUNIST, not fascist. Our police though have obviously become fascists.

Nazi Germany before the war started (1932-1939) saw an absolutely astonishing financial recovery (think worse than current U.S. to THE world super power in 8 years!) It took the next three most powerful nations in the world working together for 4 years to bring them down!

History seems to focus on the events of 1942-1944 (namely the holocaust) and with good reason, but a lot of valuable lessons seem skimmed over in favor of getting to the big drama story. No one ever wants to tell you that Hitler succeeded in doing what Jefferson, Jackson and Lincoln also did, and warned us to remain vigilant about: They killed fractional reserve banking systems in their nations.

I hope one day we develop some quantum technology that allows us to peer into the past so we can see what really happened and where things went wrong in so many nations of the past.

Personally, I've already made plans to move my company and myself to Northern Europe in 2014. I see nothing but a bad future in store for the U.S. If I thought an honest politician could get somewhere, I'd run for office, but if a civil war breaks out, I plan to return to my home country and fight for the right side (liberty).

Oh how prescient the warnings of our founding fathers!

LOL you call Obama a communist and then you want to move to Northern Europe where the see Obama as right of center. Maybe you are confused about what communist means. Also your Hitler is not so bad will not win any friends over their either. And I have a good idea why you would not get into public office calling people Communist and saying that Hitler was not so bad.

reply to post by DarthMuerte

Free market capitalism is as much a utopian dream as its communist counterpart. It isn't what I meant.

I have looked into Mussolini's definition of "fascism" and it is very capitalistic.