New Mexico cops, doctors force man to undergo 7-hour ordeal involving rectal probes after traffic st

reply to post by OpinionatedB


Okay, so it's in your own back yard and you and others are obviously upset. I'm not saying what happened to this guy was ok or that the police and hospital were within their rights to do what they did. I will say again, I'm simply not going to get my panties in a knot before I know all the details. I'm from Ontario and we had a guy shot then tasered on a bus in Toronto. Was it wrong? I don't know, but from the videos of what transpired, it appeared to be. Did the cop deserve death threats to himself, his wife and children? Absolutely not. All I'm saying is, lets keep things in perspective. Just because this guy got his butt probed, and you referred to two other incidents, I don't agree that we can take from this that the police have become "militarized" as was said by someone earlier.

Domo1
I'm hardly ever in favor of lawsuits but if pretty much any of the allegations here are true I'm all for it.

I don't care if the cops know the guy is a dirtbag and he got mouthy. I don't care if he has a history of smuggling drugs in his person. I don't even care if he had assaulted them. You do not get to flagrantly break laws and subject someone to this kind of degradation. It's completely reprehensible.

I really can't see the cops having done much worse other than shooting him in the head while he was in handcuffs in front of a news crew. What they did was absurd. My only guess is that they knew they were screwed and were hoping for a magic baggie invisible to x-ray and digital examination to get flushed out so they had an excuse for their utterly disgusting behavior.

Clearly there is something horribly wrong with these cops or else the entire story is BS. There is a possibility it's complete nonsense, but I doubt it. Still, the only evidence I've seen so far is the filing with the court. People can file anything, doesn't mean it won't be laughed out.

One thing I would like to see from this is a nationwide discussion about judges rubber stamping search warrants. I think this has always been a problem. This is a very good example of what can go wrong.

Next time you hear someone say 'I've got nothing to hide so I have nothing to fear.' share this story with them.

It's amazing because honestly Domo, while I somewhat like you and know you are intelligent, I almost never agree with you but after reading the post you made, I want to give you a big hug.

This kind of thing makes me realize that beyond our political ideals, we are all human and what seemed to have happened in this incident is sub human by any standard of a normal person. Depriving somebody of their natural, inalienable rights and those guaranteed under the Constitution is a bipartisan issue and I couldn't be more proud of my normal political opposition here on ATS standing up for what is right.

reply to post by meemaw


People speaking of the militarization of the police in this country is due to much more than this one incident and this one thread...

Might be a point of interest for you to learn more about... you can agree to disagree if you like, but learning fully before commenting is always a wise course of action.

reply to post by meemaw

I agree. However, if memory serves me correctly and understanding the laws as they stand, filling a false federal law suit, and it is proved to be false, would result in a heavy penalty along with jail time.


So as with most things that have occurred in any police case it is well documented. So here you have that the warrant is evidence, and the medical reports, as is the report that the 2 officers would have to fill out.

So if all of the reports show a clear violation of the law and the rights of the person, then I guess it is something we should look at.

reply to post by sdcigarpig


The state has to prove cause first.

Then what the state has to do, is explain, according to law, that these "procedures" - that were documented by medical hospital staff, were necessary, rather than finding a less invasive way to determine whether or not there were drugs inside this man.

The state has to explain, according to law, why a blanket warrant was issued, rather than one that stated what exact "procedures" were being court ordered

The state has to explain, why this man's constitutional rights were violated, according to law.

The doctors have to explain, why, when according to their profession they are not to harm, they did unnecessary procedures against a man's will

And the list goes on.... and on... and on....

From what was done, and what I know of law... they cant prove any cause for those "procedures"... they felt like it, is not cause. There are laws protecting people for this very reason... and none of them were followed... and a man was raped.

To the police apologists I am sorry no amount of rationalizations can make this right. Waste that elsewhere .

Have we lost control over own body ? If this is true than we are no more than slaves or cattle to cops and politicians.

If I could figure what products were made there I would organize a boycott .

on the lighter side

You have heard the stories of aliens anal probing people. We got both Roswell aliens and Deming cops both anal probing people. Wait Deming and Roswell se and sw of the state hmm maybe it wasn't aliens after all it was Deming cops.

Most police forces wear black leather gloves, But Deming uses clear latex gloves.

reply to post by Lostinthedarkness


My body (no part of it) is not the playground of the state. And if we don't fight for this man's body, then we hand over control over our bodies by default.

reply to post by retiredTxn


Agreed!

I can only shake my head when I hear of an "internal investigation" or "internal audit."
They really mean official cover-up.

This is unbelievable but it doesn't surprise me at all. Every day I see something new about the police force that disgusts me and we are forced to sit and watch silently, or be arrested and charged as felons and traitors. Something eventually has to give and people have to rise up, there are many more of us than there are them, and they can't arrest all of us. Only problem is the 75% of Americans are ignorant, apathetic, or downright retards who can't see what's happening. If you watch and believe mainstream news you're ####ed. change, not counting on that to happen it will keep getting worse! may be a negative way to perceive things but it's just they way I see them going. Sorry for the rant but nothing pisses me off more than this kind of stuff.

meemaw
reply to post by sdcigarpig

 

I'm not defending the cops.

That is exactly what you are doing.

Have you even read the previous posts in this thread? It looks to me like you saw a thread condemning the actions of a police officer, and swooped in to make sure we knew that not all cops are bad cops. Other than the trite "two sides to every story" prattle, that is the only thing you have said.

Almost every response to the OP has expressed anger, shock, and indignance towards only the officers directly involved. No one has claimed that all cops are this corrupt, yet you felt the need to reassure us just in case.

That you feel it necessary to defend police officers in the face of this incident and all of its unconscionable details tells me that you either haven't informed yourself about it, you have a bias toward officers, or both.

There isn't much that can be added in the outrage department, as there is really no upper limit to it. There is no way at all to defend this. So we are left with a case that is the poster child for something, but what?

Two things people fail to take into account.

1. Under the rules of war, this is allowed. What I mean by that, we are under war time rules in the "war on drugs." This is a declared war by the US Government which suspends the constitution entirely in favor of expediting the problem. The rules, which are not rules, are what allows for confiscation, illegal searches, arrests for any reason and the suspension of rights. The people of the US wanted this, they demanded an end to drugs, so this is the "war" that was declared - btw, there is a "war on poverty" too which dovetails nicely with this but there is no declared war in Iraq.

2. The police are chosen for their ability to follow rules. If you watch the news report the Chief's response to the question is "we followed the rules." And that is his mea cupla, his excuse, his justification - it is all he needs! Think about that, this means he isn't able to use a moral compass at all, in fact he has taken this job because it means he needs not moral compass anymore. The "rules" give me rights, rather then rights are curbed by rules is the REAL problem here. What you have a people who are no better then artificial intelligence beings.

This will not end until people stop seeing prison, fines and handcuffs as the answer to everything in modern society. We love this idea that a bad guy gets his head blown off, winds up in solitary, or has his world turned upside down. It is the comic book world where all things are black and white. These soldiers engaged in the war on drugs are fighting, killing, and anal probing those scum bags who dare to keep this war going! Now, think about it, can the government ever, ever, ever afford to win the war? Can the government ever be served to declare the war over? What will the soldiers do?

reply to post by OpinionatedB


I'm VERY sorry about your daughter. I can only imagine the thoughts running through your head as I have a 20 year old daughter myself, who is the apple of my eye.

And as you said, this was done by our "protectors" ( as the general public sees them), but in reality, the depravity of this situation is nothing new, it has been going on for some time, and a sliding scale of hell will continue if we ALLOW this kind of behavior to continue.

We don't need justice,we don't even need vengeance.

What we need, is a reckoning.

Otherwise....

Loom for something even more putrid & corrupt to talk about in a few months/years here on ATS.

ETA: 4 all: Count how many ppl here have mentioned in some form a payday, then ask how much your dignity is worth. Your wife's? Your mother's?

Gah.

Spookybelle
reply to post by sdcigarpig

 

You should probably read the official police report because this article seems very, very suspicious. It starts out with this little nugget,

The police allowed him to walk away after issuing a citation (he was stopped in front of his house) but continued to badger him with questions.

I don't know many officers that give you a ticket and release you then follow you to harass you with questions. Usually they do that while you are being detained.

Was this guy causing some sort of altercation after he was released or something?

Obviously there is information missing so don't go jumping to any conclusions.

I don't even think a death row prisoner deserves treatment like that. It's just a bit overboard. The story itself doesn't even matter to me if the anal intrusion part is real. That's seriously insane that people would participate in that.

meemaw
reply to post by OpinionatedB

 

Just because this guy got his butt probed

In American backyards, any amount of unwanted anal probing is too much.

Some of us still respect and believe in the US Constitution. At the heart of our constitution is the idea that the government exists to serve the people. Another central idea is that the constraints of government are lines that are never to be crossed.

It is this zero-tolerance attitude towards tyranny that has preserved our freedoms for almost 250 years. The day we adopt the attitude "well, my butt doesn't hurt that badly" is the day we have gone so far down the road to submission that there is no return.

reply to post by schadenfreude


They are already gearing up for what is more putrid and more disgusting.

reply to post by crankyoldman


New ideas are much-appreciated at this point in the thread, and you raise two very good ones.

The drug-war is losing more support every day. While I would not support complete legalization of controlled substances in my state (maybe just one or two...or three), there is no reason a state should not do so if its citizens are supportive. It has been mentioned in this thread that without the war on drugs, law enforcement could not justify the bloated budgets and small-town armies. They will prop it up for as long as they can.

Justification of behavior simply because it is not against the rules (I bet there is a Latin phrase for that) is a problem in our society as a whole. It is especially disturbing to see law enforcement behave this way.

OpenMindedRealist
reply to post by crankyoldman

 

New ideas are much-appreciated at this point in the thread, and you raise two very good ones.

The drug-war is losing more support every day. While I would not support complete legalization of controlled substances in my state (maybe just one or two...or three), there is no reason a state should not do so if its citizens are supportive. It has been mentioned in this thread that without the war on drugs, law enforcement could not justify the bloated budgets and small-town armies. They will prop it up for as long as they can.

Justification of behavior simply because it is not against the rules (I bet there is a Latin phrase for that) is a problem in our society as a whole. It is especially disturbing to see law enforcement behave this way.

Actually drugs can still be illegal, we need to declare and end to the war. Then the constitution applies again. It would also release "drug offenders" from prison as there was no victim in most of the crimes. It is the rules of war that allows a pot smoker to go to jail, but it is also what allows his car to be auctioned, his house to be auctioned and his life to be ended - war is hell.

reply to post by sdcigarpig


Where was the nurse during all this? If this was my patient I would've done what I had to do to ensure this didn't escalate the way it did.

Shame on the docs, the hospital, the nurses, and especially the "leo's" for what they did to this man. This is a disgusting abuse of power in every way imaginable!

So. The cops have tired of having their heads up their OWN asses, and are branching out?

Words fail.

Here is a copy of just one letter I wrote. I removed my name and the name of the person I sent it too but rest assured, this is one of many and only 1 of hundreds I will write until this issue is resolved.

I write to you now to pray for relief for a grievance that I share with millions of other Americans, a grievance that cannot be forgiven nor forgotten through standard bureaucracy. A grievance that transcends the state level and has propelled itself through its atrocity onto the national stage.

I speak of the actions that took place on January 2nd of 2013 regarding Mr. David Eckert. I speak directly to the actions and unlawful decisions that were made by, insisted upon and carried out by the following;

A.) Bobby Orosco and Robert Chavez of the Deming police force.
B.) David Arredondo, Robert Rodriguez and Patrick Green of the Hildago County Sheriff’s office.
C.) Gila Regional Medical Center as a whole, a business and as a facilitator to multiple felonies.
D.) Robert Wilcox M.D. and Okay H. Odocha. M.D. as individuals and acting under color of law.

The facts of this case as presented through federal court litigation documents constitute not only a gross miscarriage of justice but also, multiple felonies, punishable and enforceable by state and federal law. While I know it is the practice of the great state of New Mexico to follow procedure and rule of law, I would expect, should these allegations prove substantiated and valid that the immediate filing of charges should be brought against those implicated in these crimes.

The actual crimes that are described within the civil litigation and that are evident to the American people are not vague, nor are they circumstantial and are not easily reduced on semantically justified basis. Indeed, the crimes that are laid out and realized in this case are so heinous, despicable and egregious that the whole of America would agree on them.

I would include these crimes to either directly fit or be close too; False arrest, Kidnapping, Assault, Mob action, Sexual assault, Rape, aggravated assault and conspiracy to commit a felony. I as so many of my fellow Americans feel this is the very least that can be charged while we all understand, this is the very minimum. Many more laws both written and implied were broken that day, to the shame of the entire nation.

I and the people I speak on behest of have great respect for the law, for the nation and for the great state of New Mexico and we insist on integrity, the rule of law and justice for what has happened. Should it not be addressed in honest form or appropriate time, we will be unfortunately forced to go beyond the state measure to seek out justice on a state level with the help of all available national and alternative media.

Unless those that perpetrated this injustice are brought up on charges and pay for their crimes under the rule of law, no citizen can rest safe that sexual and deviant criminals are not still within and present in the ranks of the law enforcement of the New Mexico police force. This situation calls for examples so that citizens of your great state can be at rest for the outrageous and immoral actions of but a few.

edit on 6-11-2013 by Helious because: (no reason given)