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Rand Paul faces another plagiarism claim

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posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 12:11 PM
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FlyersFan
YOU WENT UBER-PARTISAN and tried to say that the left = good and the right = bad. It was absurd. So I proved you wrong.




You proved that the left is not ethically perfect? Good for you! . You set up a straw man and knocked it down! How brilliant!

If only I had actually claimed "left = good and right = bad"...in the binary fallacy, false choice that you dishonestly attributed to me. Instead I posted this on page one.


Indigo5

But seeing it as a false binary choice of either/or as you propose is dishonest as well. The political left has been dishonest in the past, but it is the north star compared to the noon-time sun.

Again...slippery slope vs. cliff.

I can't be honest and say that the political left has the same disregard for truth as the political right.

False equivalence, binary fallacy et al.


Which is simply the reality of it.

If Obama borrows a line in a speech or an "idea"...that becomes the same as cutting and pasting an article from another author and claiming it as your own in the Washington Post.

In a world where people are incapable of thinking beyond either 0 or 1, you have a point.

FALSE EQUIVELANCE
edit on 5-11-2013 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 

You seriously have no clue when false equivalence or tu quoque fallacy apply.
So far you have tried to apply those twice on this thread, and neither time it has fit.

Look .. you started a thread showing Rand Paul (or his writer who he is still responsible for) committed plagiarism. We all (except one person) said .. yep, he sure did. We all (except one person) said it was the wrong thing for a politician to do. And we all (except you) pretty much complained that neither the democrats or republicans are worthy of trust. Then you went off on a partisan tangent that the left is wonderful and the right is awful. That was proven wrong.

People have already said yes he plagiarized.
People have already said it was the wrong thing to do.
People have already said it will effect his career the same as everyone elses in politics.
(meaning .. it won't have any effect).

So what exactly are you looking for with this thread?



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 

Looks like you also don't know what a straw man is.
Seriously .. hang it up.



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


It has became part of the topic when you only blame one party instead of both. Eh



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 12:16 PM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 


Is D.C. an orchestra?



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 12:17 PM
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FlyersFan
reply to post by Indigo5
 


1 - Rand Paul plagiarized. It's very clear.
2 - You didn't look at all the links I provided, did you? Nope. Didn't think so. I't's very clear that your buddies Biden and Obama also 'lifted' and plagiarized. Heck, at least Biden manned up and admitted it. There are many others, both on the left and the right, telling lie after lie and being corrupt. I could spend all day providing links ... but you'd not bother to look at them so I won't waste my time.
3 - The partisan blindness being displayed here is mind numbing. We are in the middle of an Obamacare meltdown and lie after lie; Benghazigate; Fast and Furious; Holder purjuries; Rosengate; IRSgate; APgate; etc etc and you have the audacity to try to claim that the left isn't just as bad as the right? That's just absurd.

You're entire argument seems to be (and please correct me if I'm wrong):

We shouldn't dwell on the wrong doings of politicians on the right because the politicians on the left are also guilty of the same wrong doings.

Doesn't the same apply equally to you or is it different when you do it? Anyone who has an opinion contrary to yours is displaying "partisan blindness" regardless of the issue. Do you not equally display partisan bias or is it different when you do it? Why feign an air of disdain for partisanship when all of the politically related topics you've started are critical of the left?



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 12:17 PM
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thesaneone
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


It has became part of the topic when you only blame one party instead of both. Eh

Certainly, but the discussion is about plagiarism...not my Jambalaya and not Bengazi. And the latter qualifies as deflection. The former is merely sublime.



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 12:21 PM
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Plagiarism? Oh my God! Say it ain't so! That could disqualify him from becoming Vice President.

Oh, wait:

Why Biden's plagiarims shouldn't be forgotten

Well, it should still prevent him from becomming President.

Uh ...

Obama Accused Of Plagiarism In Speech

Oh, well. Quick, somebody accuse Rand Paul of being a racist that will outlaw abortions. That did pretty well against his father.



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 12:28 PM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


So now that we have established that Paul has been found guilty of plagiarism can somebody tell me how this will destroy America?



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 12:28 PM
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theantediluvian
You're entire argument seems to be (and please correct me if I'm wrong):

Okay. You are dead wrong. The reason why I posted the information from both sides is because the OP was blathering about how morally corrupt the right was but how wonderful the left was. And as I CLEARLY STATED ... they both suck. If she didn't want people to bring up that the left did the same thing, then she shoudln't have been so partisan. It's very simple.


Why feign an air of disdain for partisanship when all of the politically related topics you've started are critical of the left?

.....aaaaaand dead wrong again.
Here's one from just this week and here's one from two weeks ago Plenty more out there .. but I"m not going to go through all the threads I've started over the past 9 1/2 years. And I'm not going to pull up all my complaint posts about Bush's spending or Rubios connections to Soros or whatever. They are out there .. you'll stumble upon them.

So you should retract your statement. It's simply not true.

You have been here a VERY short time. You have just made a common mistake among people who are new here. They see how much folks are complaining about Obama and Holder and Pelosi and think that the person must be a right winger. But what you fail to understand is that when Christie gets in (or Rubio or whoever) then there will be just as many complaints about them. Right now, the left is in office in DC. So they get the exposure and the complaints. If you had been here during the Bush43 years, you would have seen this place in an uproar (and rightfully so) over Bush43. If Christie gets in, you'll see a ton of complaints about Christie.



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 12:29 PM
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FlyersFan
reply to post by Indigo5
 

Looks like you also don't know what a straw man is.
Seriously .. hang it up.


You need to look it up..

So while I say…

Indigo5

The political left has been dishonest in the past, but it is the north star compared to the noon-time sun.



You say I say…


FlyersFan
Then you went off on a partisan tangent that the left is wonderful and the right is awful.



Then say that you proved me wrong? Where did I say the left is “wonderful” ??



Straw man

is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position
To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"),

en.wikipedia.org...

edit on 5-11-2013 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 12:33 PM
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FlyersFan
the OP was blathering about how morally corrupt the right was


Correct



but how wonderful the left was.


Incorrect..please cite the post.


FlyersFanAnd as I CLEARLY STATED ... they both suck.


Yes, but when it comes to facts, truth, science, spin, math et al. aka general matters of honesty, the right wing sucks MORE by several orders of magnitude.

To claim otherwise is to assign false equivalence and ironically is just more dishonest rhetoric.
edit on 5-11-2013 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 12:38 PM
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You are squirming and trying to hide the fact that your own partisan rhetoric is what got people talking about how bad the left is as well as the right.


Indigo5
the far right seems to have a much, much greater immunity to "ethics" than the left.


Indigo5
The political left has been dishonest in the past, but it is the north star compared to the noon-time sun.


I can't be honest and say that the political left has the same disregard for truth as the political right.


It is very clear.
You tried to give the impression that the left was 'much much greater' than the right.
And you have no clue about what a straw-man is.
It's rather funny that you are trying to use that.

AGAIN - Look .. you started a thread showing Rand Paul (or his writer who he is still responsible for) committed plagiarism. We all (except one person) said .. yep, he sure did. We all (except one person) said it was the wrong thing for a politician to do. And we all (except you) pretty much complained that neither the democrats or republicans are worthy of trust. Then you went off on a partisan tangent that the left is wonderful and the right is awful. That was proven wrong.

People have already said yes he plagiarized.
People have already said it was the wrong thing to do.
People have already said it will effect his career the same as everyone elses in politics.
(meaning .. it won't have any effect).

SO WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU LOOKING FOR IN THIS THREAD
Care to answer?



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 12:51 PM
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FlyersFan

SO WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU LOOKING FOR IN THIS THREAD
Care to answer?


(A) To discuss Rand Paul's blatant plagiarism.

(B) To examine what tactics his defenders would employ to defend him, and would they be ironically dishonest as he was.

You earned points for grudgingly acknowledging the blatant plagiarism.

But still strived to defend him by
(A) Derail...Laundry listing other hot topics...Benghazi, ACA, Fast and Furious etc.
(B) Straw man...claiming I said the left was "Wonderful" etc. while I claimed no such thing.
(C) False equivalence...Obama borrowed a line or idea etc...they are all the same in magnitude.
(D) Tu Quoque Fallacy...whether anyone else is guilty of plagiarism is irrelevant to the truth of Rand Paul's Plaigerism.



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 12:55 PM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 


I haven't read the whole thread, so if I'm repeating something from someone, please ignore my plagerism (I was going to cut and paste the OP's second post here in total as my own writing, as satire, but thought, hmmm, that could get me banned and didn't do it. Imagine it here though.)

As for Paul, either he has a very stupid writer on staff who has sunk the Senator by tying several rocks around his neck, or he knew about it from the first. But Paul should really and quickly (a little too late though) put out each and every instance where he did this. Because imagine if a dozen more surface, he'll get close to the "have to resign" level.
edit on 5-11-2013 by Aleister because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 01:24 PM
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thesaneone
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


So now that we have established that Paul has been found guilty of plagiarism can somebody tell me how this will destroy America?



The OP was not about "destroying America"?

Establishing that Rand Paul is a serial plagiarist, incapable or unwilling to risk original thought is sufficient for this thread.

The fact that when confronted he first attacked the media as "partisan hacks" and then retreated to blaming his staff...is also telling of his character ...an unwillingness to own his mistakes or ethical lapses and the frantic expediency in which he lays blame on his staff.

Which leads to yet another question...Speechwriters I get...but if Paul is to be believed...then his staff actually writes Op-ed pieces for him to be published under his name in the papers?
edit on 5-11-2013 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 01:38 PM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 


So when Obama plagiarized some of his speech in his State of the Union Address in 2011 it was fine with you? but I know your answer this is only about Rand Paul.

Take off the blinders and see that this is what it is Politics.



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 01:48 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 




You have been here a VERY short time. You have just made a common mistake among people who are new here. They see how much folks are complaining about Obama and Holder and Pelosi and think that the person must be a right winger. But what you fail to understand is that when Christie gets in (or Rubio or whoever) then there will be just as many complaints about them. Right now, the left is in office in DC. So they get the exposure and the complaints. If you had been here during the Bush43 years, you would have seen this place in an uproar (and rightfully so) over Bush43. If Christie gets in, you'll see a ton of complaints about Christie.


It's true that I recently created this account. I've actually been reading these forums for a few years, mostly scanning the cryptozoology and ancient civilization forums for interesting topics as a jump off point for further reading. I actually registered once before in 2010 (profile link) but I'd long forgotten the password or associated email account. So I'm not exactly "new" to ATS.

I try very hard to do my due diligence so that I don't find myself making unsubstantiated claims. I checked out your topics and yes, I kept scrolling and scrolling so I could load them all up, going all the way back to 2004.

So let's just do some simple word search on the titles.

"Obama" 199 hits going back to 2008 (when he was still just candidate Obama), these were chuckle-worthy:

Obama's Birth Certificate authored on Jun, 10 2008
Photo - Obama's Kenyan Birth Certificate (political fraud) authored on Aug, 2 2009

"Biden" 2 hits:

Biden Boo'd at Philly Eagles Game - authored on Nov, 10 2008
Biden in Leaked Memo told Obama his War Plan was Flawed - authored on Jun, 25 2012

Well, that doesn't prove anything though--after all, you're an equal opportunity purveyor of unbiased truth. Surely, you were equally critical of Bush?

"Bush" 6 hits:

Obama's Drone War - He's More Deadly than Bush 43 - authored on Jun, 7 2013
Obama, Cheney, Bush and Powell in New Pro Gay Marriage Ad - authored on Feb, 21 2013
Jeb Bush Said He'd Strive to be a POTUS like Lyndon Johnson - authored on Feb, 16 2013
The Globe on George Bush (43) - authored on Feb, 26 2009
Teresa Kerry 'Admires' Bush's 9/11 Actions. - authored on Aug, 8 2004
School Principal - Bush's 9/11 actions were correct - authored on Aug, 8 2004

"Cheney" 1 hit (pesky pro gay marriage ad)
"Rumsfeld" 0 hits
"Rice" 0 hits for Condoleeza, 1 for Susan.
"Powell" 2 hits
"Ashcroft" 0 hits

Well maybe you didn't really comment much on politics before 2008?

"Kerry" 24 hits, mostly in 2004.
"Pelosi" 7 hits, starting in 2007

Maybe "this place was in an uproar" about Bush 43, but you certainly weren't. Why not just embrace your politics and stop trying to pretend that you're some sort of independent when you clearly aren't. You don't think Christie is conservative enough:



Cris Christie ... who obviously will be running for POTUS in 2016 ... is fishing for democrats
to vote for him. The new term you all will be hearing .... Christiecrats

(source)

and it's pretty obvious when you started hating McCain for showing any signs of being moderate:



Sen. John McCain says his opponent in last year's presidential campaign, Barack Obama, has "done well" in his first five months in the White House.

Okay .. I'm going to say it ... he's either senile or he's a sell out.

(source)

So no, there well be no retraction.
edit on 5-11-2013 by theantediluvian because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 01:58 PM
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thesaneone
reply to post by Indigo5
 


So when Obama plagiarized some of his speech in his State of the Union Address in 2011 it was fine with you? but I know your answer this is only about Rand Paul.

Take off the blinders and see that this is what it is Politics.


What is anyone suppose to do when they recite a few words of another during a live speech? Provide sources and citations on the spot? What an smooth speech that would be. Using a historical line or phrase here and there is anything but plagiarism.
edit on 5-11-2013 by LeatherNLace because: (no reason given)




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