A Critique of "Kill The Ego"

reply to post by Golden Rule


Yes I think you articulated this idea well. The body could be explained as a process of processes. I suppose the ego could be one of these processes, insofar as most of us do identify ourselves. Like there is no walker, only someone walking, there is no ego, only someone identifying themselves or "egoing" themselves (for lack of a better term.)

It is fitting to this conversation what Nietzsche wrote in Thus Spoke Zarathustra about "The Despisers of the Body" -

"Body am I, and soul"—so saith the child. And why should one not speak like children?

But the awakened one, the knowing one, saith: "Body am I entirely, and nothing more; and soul is only the name of something in the body."

The body is a big sagacity, a plurality with one sense, a war and a peace, a flock and a shepherd.

An instrument of thy body is also thy little sagacity, my brother, which thou callest "spirit"—a little instrument and plaything of thy big sagacity.

"Ego," sayest thou, and art proud of that word. But the greater thing—in which thou art unwilling to believe—is thy body with its big sagacity; it saith not "ego," but doeth it.

What the sense feeleth, what the spirit discerneth, hath never its end in itself. But sense and spirit would fain persuade thee that they are the end of all things: so vain are they.

Instruments and playthings are sense and spirit: behind them there is still the Self. The Self seeketh with the eyes of the senses, it hearkeneth also with the ears of the spirit.

Ever hearkeneth the Self, and seeketh; it compareth, mastereth, conquereth, and destroyeth. It ruleth, and is also the ego's ruler.

Behind thy thoughts and feelings, my brother, there is a mighty lord, an unknown sage—it is called Self; it dwelleth in thy body, it is thy body.

There is more sagacity in thy body than in thy best wisdom. And who then knoweth why thy body requireth just thy best wisdom?

Thy Self laugheth at thine ego, and its proud prancings. "What are these prancings and flights of thought unto me?" it saith to itself. "A by-way to my purpose. I am the leading-string of the ego, and the prompter of its notions."

The Self saith unto the ego: "Feel pain!" And thereupon it suffereth, and thinketh how it may put an end thereto—and for that very purpose it is meant to think.

The Self saith unto the ego: "Feel pleasure!" Thereupon it rejoiceth, and thinketh how it may ofttimes rejoice—and for that very purpose it is meant to think.

To the despisers of the body will I speak a word. That they despise is caused by their esteem. What is it that created esteeming and despising and worth and will?

The creating Self created for itself esteeming and despising, it created for itself joy and woe. The creating body created for itself spirit, as a hand to its will.

Even in your folly and despising ye each serve your Self, ye despisers of the body. I tell you, your very Self wanteth to die, and turneth away from life.

No longer can your Self do that which it desireth most:—create beyond itself. That is what it desireth most; that is all its fervour.

But it is now too late to do so:—so your Self wisheth to succumb, ye despisers of the body.

To succumb—so wisheth your Self; and therefore have ye become despisers of the body. For ye can no longer create beyond yourselves.

And therefore are ye now angry with life and with the earth. And unconscious envy is in the sidelong look of your contempt.

NiNjABackflip
I suppose the ego could be one of these processes, insofar as most of us do identify ourselves. Like there is no walker, only someone walking, there is no ego, only someone identifying themselves or "egoing" themselves (for lack of a better term.)

Walking happens - the bodies move. A thought happens that says 'I am walking'.
The 'I' that is claiming the walking is ego (an imaginary/illusionary thing added onto 'walking').

Movement is continually happening and there is a 'supposed something' (I) that says it is doing it. The body pumps blood around the body, the body breaths, thoughts arise, walking happens and the there seems to be something that thinks it has control over the movement/the arising.

Thoughts arise that say 'I am doing walking' but the thought is also just arising.

There is no separate 'I' that has control over what arises - the perceiver and perceived arise as one. There is not a perceiver separate to the perceived - there is only ever what is happening.

When it seems there is a separate 'I' then that separate 'I' has to protect itself from the threat of 'other' (fear is the condition) - the defending and fighting begin for there is an idea that one can cease to be. If it is found that there is no other, that nothing is separate then there can be no conflict or fear - love is the condition.

'Ego' points to that which is the false self - the extra one that needs to be realized as false. The 'I' that is trying to protect itself from life or secure oneself is the fear of not being - it has not been realized that there is just life happening - life is eternal - it is this. This does not belong to 'someone' - this is not personal - this is.
This will always be this and this will always appear different.

dominicus
reply to post by coquine
anyone who possesses knowledge and experience, which others don't have, will make them always, every single time, 100% of the time make them see themselves as superior over others?

I make no claim about what anyone (including you) feels or thinks inside.
I make claim that as far as the english language goes, as far as the reality of what was said and can be communicated, to claim more knowledge than another in a specific area is to claim to be superior to them in said area.

Example:

So it seems, all of this is completely above your head. IF it took me a good 8-10 years, I can imagine the possibilities of levels of misunderstanding in others.

Using the term "over your head" is for communicating an idea which is "higher" or above, ones current level of knowledge. The one holding the the idea which is "over" the others head is in the "superior" position.
Using that language specifically denies a "equal but different" level.

There are many quotes in your posts which indicate your level of knowledge and experience in this area as being "over", higher, or superior to Ninja (but the majority of those use the term "most people" so include much more than him/her.

The ego is inherently neutral, but eventually becomes the master, hence the reason for various ways of disciplining it or undergoing an ego-death. Underneath that ego death, is a reality and direct experience of an Absolute naked reality that we are all One with, prior to all thought, filters, perceptions. But I've found over the last 10 years, that very few care about Enlightenment. Only a small tiny fraction go for it, and yet it is the answer to all the worlds ills.

Oh well, I still love you & everyone else regardless

Thanks for sharing with me your view.

Mine is different.
In that I experience many different realities, including one which is as you describe, where there is no separation or individualization. But the existence of that reality does not make the other ones "disappear" or cease to exist.
The reality in which there are different separate individuals/entities, is simultaneously existing and there is no need to "deny" it, kill it, or otherwise try to avoid it, in order to experience the others.
Everything and nothing, the whole shebang is here and now, no gun shots to mark beginning, no finish line to run through.

Ego bubbles up out of that all, and eventually it pops, and another ego is bubbling up, and all of this out of the sea of creative consciousness.

On this reality, where two separate individuals are communicating with linear thought and word, though, this is only the experience of one bubble. Results may vary. I don't need to hear that you love me- because we are one anyway. But if you choose to experience being a "one" that feels a certain way about "another one" than you have that right, and I see no reason to obstruct that experience for you! Enjoy!

ZiggyMojoEgo loss is not attained through stepping into the shower devoid of one's material belongings. Ego Loss is MUCH deeper than that. It is an introspective state that allows you to think critically about yourself, others and reality in general without the veil of preconcieved notions. The ego is built on your conditioning, and loss of ego ultimately allows you to see beyond conditioning and human constructs such as religion, time and subjective or relative truths.

There we have it.

I have stated this many times; I don't think think that the eqo can be actually "killed" (or if that is even desirable) but it can be pushed aside to focus on the cold hard facts without getting personal.

The "self" without the ego is like something you tap to, achieved with meditation and by stopping the inner dialogue, and it makes you perceive the outside world in a different manner, without your emotional, programmed self getting in the way.

Using words and terms that we are familiar with, and in my opinion only...

We all have ego, many egos, a legion.

Part of the reason that we exist in this physical world is to rid ourselves of these egos, not an easy task!

To supress our egos is not the goal, to supress something will only postpone it's emergence, and when it does surface it has a lot of 'catching up' to do (we have all seen what can happen when the 'holy' men supress their ego of lust...).

The ultimate goal is to kill our egos (deny ourselves, sacrifice), this of course is so difficult because we are our egos, and our egos are us. It makes things seem even more impossible as not only do we have many egos that are part of us but the egos are also intertwined. Nobody knows us better than our egos, they know what we love, what we hate, what scares us, what makes us happy. We have to get to know them as well as they know us.

So, how to eliminate our egos?

First we have to identify which ego to work on (we are spoilt for choice!), lets say we want to work on our ego of pride. We have to take a side step and observe ourselves, to try and catch our ego of pride at work. Try to catch the very moment we are offended and try to work out why we were so offended, what exactly was it that caused the emotional reaction to whatever triggered our pride to be hurt.

Was our ego of pride hurt because another ego was involved? Or was our pride acting alone?

When you feel the time is right for you, you can take time to reflect on the whole of your day. When during that day did you feel offended? what was said to trigger this feeling? Can you pinpoint the precise time those feelings started to arise? What word or action was the last straw?

As well as the feeling of being offended and your ego of pride being affected, did your ego of pride also cause you to react in a certain way? Feeling offended is one thing, but to react and personify these feelings is another...did your ego of pride call up your ego of anger? Was your pride hurt not because of what was said, but who said it? Or who else was around when it was said?

Of course, all of the above is easier said than done.

It can take a whole lifetime, and probably more to identify an ego, observe an ego, comprehend an ego and then eventually eliminate an ego. Once this has been done, there are many more to work on, seems an impossible task...but then again, how far could we get if we spent as much time working on ourselves and knowing ourselves as we do writing on internet forums, watching TV or getting drunk?

Even when one or all of our egos have been understood and eliminated, there is the danger of them returning...angels are falling, demons are rising...the ladder is never without travellers.

In my opinion the most dangerous of our many egos are the egos of lust, anger, pride and spirituality.
Some say that there are 'good' egos, this may be true in the sense that a particular 'good ego' doesn't hurt anybody and in fact helps a lot of people, but these good egos still need to be observed, comprehended and eliminated. Our egos are a filter, no matter if an ego is 'good' or 'bad' they still blind us to reality and affect us in ways that prevent us from experiencing our true selves and the 'reality' around, above and below us.

If anybody tells me that you can eliminate your egos in an easy five step course, I tend not to believe them. If they tell me they have no ego, I tend not to believe them.

I have heard of 'masters' who have passed on but have had to 'return' to this physical world to perform more work on themselves, have more ego to eliminate and have more work to do to truly know themselves. To become more, we have to become less..."It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven".

I have heard it said that the Christ has returned a total of seven times so far, the last time being in the form of Jesus. Not only did he have more work to perform on himself but also to pay a karmic debt, thus the reason he suffered terribly at the end of his physical life.

Please don't make the mistake of thinking that anything I have written above is considered as fact by myself, there is a lot about this subject (and myself) that I need to learn and experience...I hope I have enough lifetimes to chip away at myself and know myself as well as my egos know me...

Tonight before you go to sleep, try to take some time going through the interactions you had with everyone that you met today. What feelings and egos where at play? How did you react to things that were said or done?

Now that you can reflect on the situations and the emotions are not as strong as the time that these thing occurred, could you have handled things differently?

Why is it that you can rationalise things now but not at the time?

Is it because a certain ego was in the driving seat? That certain part of yourself was in control at that time? Why don't you feel the same now as you did earlier, is there another ego in control now?

Where does our lust go as soon as we have reached orgasm? Is it because the ego of lust satisfied and now makes way for another ego to take control?

Observe, comprehend, eliminate, be vigilant...know yourself and the 'many of you'.

Regards

Gnobody

I was listening to a radio show one night years ago, talking about the future of robotics. The topic went on to human type robots created and used for labor, domestic work, etc. The guest expert made a comment like "We can give robots intelligence, knowledge, skill, morals, talent and pretty much anything else. But the one thing we can never be allowed to give them is ego. Because if we did...they would revolt and turn on their makers."

Just thought that was interesting.

I'm with the Pope on this one - proselytising is pointless. Everyone needs to search after their own truth, not worry about converting others to what they believe.

OP: If you want to discover if the ego truly a conception, I'd recommend picking up the practice of meditation. Adyashanti has a good, short book called "The Way Of Liberation" that you can download for free that I really enjoyed. Aypsite.org also has tons of free lessons that will take you all the way to the 'goal'.

I hear entheogens can show you the same temporarily, if you're feeling adventurous.

Ego is just a word, and by the nature of words is open to interpretation.

For what it's worth, I agree with the title - people who want to destroy the ego are more often than not likely practicing spiritual bypassing.

Kill your ego, face insanity. Simple as that. "Ego death" my ass. It's a useful, important part of our psychological makeup. Sure, it's become a tyrant, and needs to be controlled, but killed? They know not what they speak of!

Quote
"Egotism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For other uses, see Egoism (disambiguation) and Egoist (disambiguation).
For the 1843 short story, see Egotism; or, The Bosom-Serpent.
Egotism is the drive to maintain and enhance favorable views of oneself, and generally features an inflated opinion of one's personal features and importance — intellectual, physical, social and other.[1]
The egotist has an overwhelming sense of the centrality of the 'Me': of their personal qualities.[2] Egotism means placing oneself at the core of one's world with no concern for others, including those loved or considered as "close," in any other terms except those set by the egotist.


Egotism is closely related to "loving one's self" or narcissism - indeed some would say “by egotism we may envisage a kind of socialized narcissism”.[3] Egotists have a strong tendency to talk about themselves in a self-promoting fashion, and they may well be arrogant and boastful with a grandiose sense of their own importance.[4] Their inability to recognize the accomplishments of others[5] leaves them profoundly self-promoting; while sensitivity to criticism may lead on the egotist's part to narcissistic rage at a sense of insult.[6]
Looked at differently, the conceit of egotism describes a person who acts to gain values in an amount excessively greater than that which he or she gives to others. Egotism may be fulfilled by exploiting the sympathy, irrationality or ignorance of others, as well as utilizing coercive force and/or fraud.[citation needed]
Egotism differs from both altruism - or acting to gain fewer values than are being given– and from egoism, the unremitting pursuit of one's own self-interest. Various forms of "empirical egoism" can be consistent with egotism, but do not necessitate having an inflated sense of self.[7]" End of Quote

A wise man, will think before he speaks, Ego is nothing more than, a out of control view of ones self. It is more about dissolving the ego, growing up realizing you are not the center of the Universe, at least not at the present time, state.
It cracks me up when the first thing out of a guys mouth is how tough he is, like gee thanks, I will remember to use a baseball bat when I knock your brain out of your head. This has never happened, I did tell one guy though, I said someone is about to get their butt kicked, I didn't bother to say who, but then I was not really sure. It did end the problem. This guy was a big dude about 6'8" he was bulling the whole crew at work, after I told him what I did he wanted to be my friend?

But having ego problems is just like telling lies, you want to be better or impress some one, I lie but like only to my wife, it makes things so much easier, did you mail that letter? Yeap! Did you put the garbage out? Yeap!
I let other people brag about about me, the one guy was saying how I was an Engineer, I would go TooT TooT, you know like Train Engineer, I don't need ego, mine is external. Or so it seems.
Ever notice how guy says he's 6 ft. tall but is really 5' 9", but I'm not here to belittle others for their faults as, I have many myself, mine still seems to be anger, for the most part it is under control. Most the time If a bug is bugging me I just put it out side if I can.
I don't like bad drivers, people that double dip. People who are Raciest. I would guess these all involve ego to some degree.

reply to post by NiNjABackflip

So let's try to reconcile our ideas and maybe come to an understanding. I think our differences lie only in language, and I will try my best to explain where I'm coming from, in common language, to seek the root of what it is we are talking about, what you call an ego, and the act of killing it.

Perhaps you don't see what I see and this is the cause of our schism here. I specifically work with troubled folks in drug abuse, alcoholism, sexual abuse, gang members, and the list goes on and on and on. Literally I have been in the gutter and faced, seen, the worst of the worst.

And in all of that, 1 thing has been the cause of people's problems (ego), and 1 thing has been the solution (Seeing that you are not the ego).

I personally think you've created this whole critique as nothing more than an opinion piece, structured, and justified by your own ego to keep it going. To say there is no such thing and no value, is to throw away 3000+ years of Bon, Buddhism, 2000 years of experiential Christianity, Various branches of Philosophy, Psychology, and on and on and on. Its all gone and useless if we take your route.

But unfortunately, I've been too far down the rabbit hole and seen far to much, so I can say that I would bet you all the money in the world that your wrong. What happens when Ego dies, and there is a shift away from it, is Spiritual Enlightenment, access to Infinite consciousness, to absolute naked reality, to parts of yourself you are not aware of yet.

You have not yet taken up the Path of Buddhism, or Christian Mysticism, or a number of other methods that lead to Enlightenment, for if you did, you would see that the highest value in the world is in Ego death & Enlightenment. But no, you chose to remain as you are, believing what you believe.

I trust the combination of my senses and my mind. I require both in order to grasp something fully. So therefor, anything that doesn't come to my senses, but strictly through mind, I suspend judgement on until I have sensual confirmation. This to me is an open system of learning suitable for growth, for the sake of not having to get trapped in vicious circles of reason and imagination.

Is your intellect completely established, mature? What about your intuition? What about your gut instinct? Have you found your own soul?If so, where is it?

I've asked so many questions before but they go unanswered. You just repeat the same belief system over and over.

If I was to try to see the ego, feel the ego, smell the ego, hear the ego, I would be seeing, feeling, smelling and hearing myself.

This is just part of your belief system, that's all.

This is all I have available of me to contemplate when I search for this ego. Yes I have the stories of many people discussing this word, true enough, except there is no account of its properties, what its made of, and what it is that I am supposed to kill. Because it doesn't have any properties, I must deduce that it is not an entity, nor an organ, but instead an abstract idea.

Here lies the problem. I can tell you a million times what it is, & I feel like I have, but it flies over your head. There is no connection in you.

I go to these philosophy meetings here in a big city near where I live, Once a month, and there are philosophers there, scholars, professors, arm chair debaters, etc....and I've seen ego death be discussed by this group, and can see many people just dont get it. It took me 8+ years to figure it out. I doubt you comprehend any of it at this point

Yet I get a foul taste in my mouth when I speak of killing the ego, or blaming the ego, for actions that I myself have done. I will take full responsibility for my actions, my words and my thoughts; I do not wish to evoke aspects of me to stand in my place for judgement

Christ said, "Forgive them Father, for they know NOT, what they do." This is very specific and in a nutshell covers it all.

You've been programmed from birth to think the way you do, believe the way you do, and your ego is coming with every possible self justification to keep itself going. Ego was Hitler, Stalin, Moussolini, Mao, Ego is Child Molesters, Rapists, Murderers...all who use self justifications by the ego to justify their actions.

Ego divides, separates, labels, see's many things. But the Heart only sees everything as One, only Loves, does not label. The schism is between the head and the heart, and by you saying there is nothing to change and not getting this, means you will stagnate by continuing to operate in a head based life. Quite simple.

The veteran who comes back without legs is not the same man because he has no legs where he used to. We change continuously, even into beings without legs, or sight.

I've been through all sorts of stuff, and still feel the same as when I was 4-5. He may not have legs, but still has all the same likes/dislikes, personality, soul, etc.

I am that which says and thinks "I" when speaking about himself.

If you are aware that this happens in you, then there is the Subject (Observer/Awareness) and the Object (Mind which thinks 'I"). Go study some simple subject/object philosophy and see what you find

Why anyone would want to kill that is beyond fathoming for me at this point, as being God over one's ego is as easy as being creative. I don't think removing a part of oneself, whether concrete or abstract, could do any good.

Because when you lose the Ego, you gain Absolute Reality, gain access to God, Source, Consciousness, start to act from the heart, Lovingly, Selflessly, having the patience to try and explain to those who just don't get it.

Every single culture on this planet, speaks about Ego death, and the schism between the head and the heart. But you don't.

I'm also fairly certain that many great, noble and compassionate individuals never needed to destroy this aspect of themselves to be good humans, nor did they need to stop thinking or return to their prior selves, so I will try my best to maintain my ego in the hopes that it will add to myself, rather than try to subtract from myself.

I'm comfortable in my knowledge of the psychology of those who are dying, to know that when you grow old, you will start the subtraction process as well. Perhaps you are young, and so you still need to form & mature your own ego, before you realize that it blocks access to God and start to deconstruct yourself. Or perhaps not. I dont know.

But I do know, everything you "think" your adding to yourself, constructing, will come to an end one day, and on the other side the only thing that will remain, is the exact thing I've been pointing at in these threads which seems to fly beyond your comprehension.

I would highly recommend a few books for you to maybe finally be able to comprehend this stuff for yourself:

First book is entirely online for free to read

Then I would recommend "I Am That" By Nisargadatta. "Be As You Are." By Ramana Maharshi. "Mysticism" By Evelyn Underhill.

Other than that, I see no possible other way of penetrating through to you the importance of what is being discussed.

reply to post by coquine

I make no claim about what anyone (including you) feels or thinks inside.

IF you would have left it at that, everything would have been perfect.

I make claim that as far as the english language goes, as far as the reality of what was said and can be communicated, to claim more knowledge than another in a specific area is to claim to be superior to them in said area.

Do you see you are the only person on this thread "projecting and assuming?" I have an uncle who is a highly skilled an in demand jeweler. He is filled to the brim in knowledge of jewels, precious metals, making jewelery, etc. But when we sit down for a game of chess and some lunch, we are equals to each other and acknowledge so. Neither is their the feeling of "superiority" in him towards me, nor is there any in me towards him. Neither is there an in me towards anyone in this thread, because I experience directly that we are all One."Superiority" does not in anyway compute in my Being because I see it is an illusion.

Using the term "over your head" is for communicating an idea which is "higher" or above, ones current level of knowledge. The one holding the the idea which is "over" the others head is in the "superior" position. Using that language specifically denies a "equal but different" level.

Over your head means "not undertstanding or comprehending something at all." THat has nothing to do with "Superioirity."

When I study certain heavy books on physics, quantum mechanics, most of the Math is "completely over my head." Does that now mean that I see Physicists as having a superiority complex over me? No. It is entirely your own imagined projection.

There are many quotes in your posts which indicate your level of knowledge and experience in this area as being "over", higher, or superior to Ninja (but the majority of those use the term "most people" so include much more than him/her.

I never not onced used any of these words: higher, or superior.

I've never tasted Dorian Fruit in my life. Others have. That's it!!! There's nothing more to it.

So then I can say: I've experienced ego death, source of thought, various shifts, realizations, experiences. Have met a small handful of people who have also experienced likewise. But most others I ask, have never experienced nor have they bothered to look. That's it!!! There's nothing more to it.

The reality in which there are different separate individuals/entities, is simultaneously existing and there is no need to "deny" it, kill it, or otherwise try to avoid it, in order to experience the others. Everything and nothing, the whole shebang is here and now, no gun shots to mark beginning, no finish line to run through.

I too share part of your sentiment. FOr me it's: Everything, Nothing, Both, & None simultaneously. But for most, in order to get to Oneness, which is located as a portal for consciousness in the Heart, the division and divider specifically, has to be let go of, surrendered, "killed" to a certain degree for the rest to be seen.

Ego bubbles up out of that all, and eventually it pops, and another ego is bubbling up, and all of this out of the sea of creative consciousness.

There is a Source to thought and to the Ego. Find that location within you, go within it, cut it at the root, and it no longer comes up.

On this reality, where two separate individuals are communicating with linear thought and word, though, this is only the experience of one bubble. Results may vary. I don't need to hear that you love me- because we are one anyway. But if you choose to experience being a "one" that feels a certain way about "another one" than you have that right, and I see no reason to obstruct that experience for you! Enjoy!

Why don't you need to hear that I love you? Love is grand!!!! The Oneness is Love, as is the Soul, as is Source. Do you Love me? A complete stranger

reply to post by dominicus

It is good to hear, the words of someone such as yourself, it is very hard to describe the taste of something that is indescribable unless you have also tasted it.

As you say, just because something is over your head, does not mean, at sometime you will gain the understanding of that which is beyond you at the present.

dominicus

Do you see you are the only person on this thread "projecting and assuming?"

Thanks for sharing your analysis of my inner feelings, thoughts and motivations. It is mistaken and I have no use for it, but if it pleases you to do so, go ahead.
Once again, I make no claim to what you feel or think, only pointed out the meaning of your phrases and words.

I have an uncle who is a highly skilled an in demand jeweler. He is filled to the brim in knowledge of jewels, precious metals, making jewelery, etc. But when we sit down for a game of chess and some lunch, we are equals to each other and acknowledge so. Neither is their the feeling of "superiority" in him towards me, nor is there any in me towards him. Neither is there an in me towards anyone in this thread, because I experience directly that we are all One."Superiority" does not in anyway compute in my Being because I see it is an illusion.

When I study certain heavy books on physics, quantum mechanics, most of the Math is "completely over my head." Does that now mean that I see Physicists as having a superiority complex over me? No. It is entirely your own imagined projection.

Back to the down-to -earth observation of language usage here, let's copy and paste

"To claim possess knowledge which most people do not have is to claim superiority over said "most people" in that specific area."

No need for melodramatics like "superiority complex" - this refers to superior knowledge IN A SPECIFIC AREA- in this discussion, spirituality. I made no claim that your phrases indicated superiority in chess, in fencing, in cooking, in mathematics, physics, chemistry, painting, tuba playing....or anything else- except the specific area being refered to.

If this is NOT what you meant to indicate, then you used the language a little less efficiently, you might want to use it in a way that better communicates what you feel or think. That is up to you, I can't tell you what you feel or think- only what your words mean in english.

Why don't you need to hear that I love you? Love is grand!!!! The Oneness is Love, as is the Soul, as is Source. Do you Love me? A complete stranger

I don't need to hear it because it IS. There is no "need" for something that is what we are, "need" is produced from perception of lack. If you would like me to state that I love you, I will- I love you! I love everyone!

And that has a certain level of truth to it... but another simultaneous truth is that there is no I and you and others, there is just all and it is love. At least, I shall respectfully acknowledge, that is what I experience. Your results may vary.

coquine
but another simultaneous truth is that there is no I and you and others, there is just all and it is love.

This talk describes this reality - No You and No Me, Just the Loving Awareness in Which All Appears.

reply to post by dominicus

Perhaps you don't see what I see and this is the cause of our schism here. I specifically work with troubled folks in drug abuse, alcoholism, sexual abuse, gang members, and the list goes on and on and on. Literally I have been in the gutter and faced, seen, the worst of the worst.

And in all of that, 1 thing has been the cause of people's problems (ego), and 1 thing has been the solution (Seeing that you are not the ego).

I have been around the world. I leterally wandered the earth for many years. I am well travelled and have met many people. I have seen the gutters, the slums, and the palaces of the world. I have seen a lot. Yet, not once an ego. How much of the world have you seen with your own eyes?

I don't wish this to fall into a d**k measuring contest, but I wish to show that such assumptions about me as a person, and what I know, are completely unfounded.

I personally think you've created this whole critique as nothing more than an opinion piece, structured, and justified by your own ego to keep it going. To say there is no such thing and no value, is to throw away 3000+ years of Bon, Buddhism, 2000 years of experiential Christianity, Various branches of Philosophy, Psychology, and on and on and on. Its all gone and useless if we take your route.

But unfortunately, I've been too far down the rabbit hole and seen far to much, so I can say that I would bet you all the money in the world that your wrong. What happens when Ego dies, and there is a shift away from it, is Spiritual Enlightenment, access to Infinite consciousness, to absolute naked reality, to parts of yourself you are not aware of yet.

Ok let's make a bet then. I will give you all the money in the world if you can show me an ego. I am aware of all my parts.

You have not yet taken up the Path of Buddhism, or Christian Mysticism, or a number of other methods that lead to Enlightenment, for if you did, you would see that the highest value in the world is in Ego death & Enlightenment. But no, you chose to remain as you are, believing what you believe.

You are speaking to a former Buddhist. You are completely wrong that I have not taken up the "path of buddhism". What other assumptions have you made?

I don't wish this to fall into a d**k measuring contest, but I wish to show that such assumptions about me as a person, and what I know, are completely unfounded.

Is your intellect completely established, mature? What about your intuition? What about your gut instinct? Have you found your own soul?If so, where is it?

I've asked so many questions before but they go unanswered. You just repeat the same belief system over and over.

At least it is my own belief system I am repeating, and not the belief systems of other men.

This is just part of your belief system, that's all.

Your ego is a part of your belief system, that is all. This is pointing out the obvious, but not pointing out an ego.

Here lies the problem. I can tell you a million times what it is, & I feel like I have, but it flies over your head. There is no connection in you.

I go to these philosophy meetings here in a big city near where I live, Once a month, and there are philosophers there, scholars, professors, arm chair debaters, etc....and I've seen ego death be discussed by this group, and can see many people just dont get it. It took me 8+ years to figure it out. I doubt you comprehend any of it at this point

You can tell me what it is, but you cannot show me. Anyone can speak words.

I don't like to speak about myself, but I've spent over the last 10 years studying philosophy. I am working on my MA at this moment, and one day, my PhD. I have spent much time with topics such as these. Does this make me more knowledgeable about egos? No. Because I cannot find, nor can you show me, an ego to know.

I don't wish this to fall into a d**k measuring contest, but I wish to show that such assumptions about me as a person, and what I know, are completely unfounded.

But since you've assumed that you know more than I, and have concluded I have no clue what I'm talking about based on the very smallest of evidence, I must also conclude that you assume with everything. And thus your ego is mere assumption, presumption, and an instance of incredulity, or the knowledge of others and not your own, which you have fully admitted.

I think we're getting nowhere with this. I wish to stay out of such vicious circles.

reply to post by NiNjABackflip

I have been around the world. I leterally wandered the earth for many years. I am well travelled and have met many people. I have seen the gutters, the slums, and the palaces of the world. I have seen a lot. Yet, not once an ego. How much of the world have you seen with your own eyes? I don't wish this to fall into a d**k measuring contest, but I wish to show that such assumptions about me as a person, and what I know, are completely unfounded.

I would never take part in contests anyway. I'm trying to get through to you, but with every passing reply, the walls of your ego's self justifications become higher and higher. There comes a time when it's pointless to share, like arguing colors with the blind or explain physics to fish, math to birds.

Ok let's make a bet then. I will give you all the money in the world if you can show me an ego. I am aware of all my parts.

Okay. Pay up then....

All you need to do, is to Google "MRI Scan of the Thinking Part of the Brain."

Or have a link:
"Scientists record the first video of thoughts forming in the brain"
Link Here

So now, besides ALL Those branches of thought that I mention, which discuss the ego, and it's death/transcendence, we now also have Science solidifying its existence.

No matter what books, links, science I send you, it won't matter

You are speaking to a former Buddhist. You are completely wrong that I have not taken up the "path of buddhism". What other assumptions have you made?

If you became a Buddhist, and took up the path for real, you would still be a Buddhist. There would be no "former" in your reply.

By the way, what did you learn or experience during your time there? Because I know a Buddhist who practiced Mahayana & Vipassana for 30 years, and all he got out of was being a little bit more mindful. But no realizations, shifts, enlightenment...none of that happened for him.

I don't wish this to fall into a d**k measuring contest, but I wish to show that such assumptions about me as a person, and what I know, are completely unfounded.

My Assumption was founded, cause you said "former". I too am a Buddhist, however have no choice in the matter. It something that I can never leave, denounce, nor ever say "former" because from Buddhism, I have 24/7 experiences that never leave, expand daily, and I no longer have a choice in the deepening of various states. The path is for life.

At least it is my own belief system I am repeating, and not the belief systems of other men.

The Men I spoke of in previous replies, Socrates, Buddha, Christ, Etc.....did not leave behind "belief systems." They left behind experiential blueprints that can be followed and lead to the cessation and spring cleaning of every single belief, so none are left.

Your ego is a part of your belief system, that is all. This is pointing out the obvious, but not pointing out an ego.

Science, Theology, Religion, Philosophy, Psychology, Psychiatry, Metaphysics, Biology, Neurology, etc, etc, etc, etc VS. Ninjabackflip.

Odds are not looking to good, friend.

You can tell me what it is, but you cannot show me. Anyone can speak words.

I've pointed it out a million times, and every time you return this in circular dog-chasing-its-own-tail reasoning. Forget it then. What matters is that from Compassion, Love, and a genuine intention, I tried my best.

I don't like to speak about myself, but I've spent over the last 10 years studying philosophy. I am working on my MA at this moment, and one day, my PhD. I have spent much time with topics such as these. Does this make me more knowledgeable about egos? No. Because I cannot find, nor can you show me, an ego to know.

I know a hermit, who is in 24/7 Enlightenment. HE also achieved MA's, and 2 Phd's in Oxford, taught Philosophy in Uni his whole life. He said that his education & degrees were like useless trash in comparison to Enlightenment and what it takes to uncover it.

I have degrees too, but understand how useless they come in comparison to direct experience.

I don't wish this to fall into a d**k measuring contest, but I wish to show that such assumptions about me as a person, and what I know, are completely unfounded.

What assumptions? All I'm saying, is you have not experienced the fruits of any genuine Spiritual Path, where the Ego dies, or is returned into its Source via a Certain Nadi, and choose to remain exactly how you are....w/ Ego in tact.

It's very simple.

But since you've assumed that you know more than I, and have concluded I have no clue what I'm talking about based on the very smallest of evidence, I must also conclude that you assume with everything. And thus your ego is mere assumption, presumption, and an instance of incredulity, or the knowledge of others and not your own, which you have fully admitted.

I'll just quote you then, to show you how you reason with my debate:

Anyone can speak words.

That's all it is.....words...... Everything I have said, is from direct experience, based on a vetting process of the teachings of Christ, Buddha, Nisargadatta, St. John of the Cross, Evelyn Underhill. My knowledge is my own, but like I said, it's all transcended you by now.

I think we're getting nowhere with this. I wish to stay out of such vicious circles.

Agreed. But I wish to say for the record w/ Everyone on ATS who reads this, as my witnesses, that my initial intention, was always heart based, out of Love, to try my best to show you that Ego death is real and leads to Enlightenment. My time trying to convince, was from the heart, never from the head...because when its from the head it leads to dead ends such as this.....

reply to post by NiNjABackflip

reply to post by dominicus


The 'I' who thinks it does, is ego.
No one is doing anything - it is all done and until this is realized the 'I' (ego - the illusionary separate one) will claim everything. The 'I' will fight and defend.

All ego threads are full of claims of 'I did this and I did that'.

Itisnowagain
reply to post by NiNjABackflip

 

reply to post by dominicus

 

The 'I' who thinks it does, is ego.
No one is doing anything - it is all done and until this is realized the 'I' (ego - the illusionary separate one) will claim everything. The 'I' will fight and defend.

All ego threads are full of claims of 'I did this and I did that'.

edit on 10-11-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

I don't understand what you are saying or mean, I realizes your statement was not directed towards me, I.
Are you speaking of the Mutiverse and due to this all things, all possibilities have already transpired or something different. When time no longer is meaningful, as in meaning if Alpha/Omgea, time is a relative thing, to do with as you will.
They that would mean that everything you could possibility think of has already occurred.
So really there is no reason to fight, nothing to defend. The choice is yours, but True in end, their is only the One. I am.


Do you think the Christ had ego? It is said if you as him to walk a mile with you , he would walk Two. If you slapped his cheek he would turn the other, so as you could slap that one also.

It's all about Love, would you hurt something you Love, would you lie to something you Love ( Well ) It's not really about Killing your Ego, but more like surrendering to your true self. We are all one, the Grace, Glory, And Truth of the Creator is upon you, as me.
There are a few things that really , really matters in this place and it's not pain, hurt, suffering, lies, what ever other things of that sort, is no need to speak.
A smile, a happy thought, why do you think The Christ climbed up on The Cross and I say climb, because it was of his own will. The Christ, is some times, referred to as the second Adam, that is where Adam fell, The Christ stood in the Pure Truth before the Creator, The Christ Redeemed Man/Woman.

I myself be in A battle with Satan right now, the Satan is not within me, Satan and myself came to terms a time back, But Satan is Ego. I am dealing with , what I would call lost soul. The Ego wants it all and does not realize it already has all things.

I to like many of us am lost in this place, but I have had the luck to grasp hold of something called Truth, a Undeniable Thing.

I pray for all of you, I pray for the entire Universe.

The Grace, Glory and Truth of The Creator is upon you, there is no escape, only Surrendered to The Truth. The choice is user's.

Lot of you might not, agree with me, Those that do pray with me this day, that you receive the understanding that will complete your being, also Pray for this Universe which is our home. Aline yourself with the Power that be, I'm referring to The only real True power in this Universe, I refer to The Pure Truth of The Creator.
I know some of you will mock what I say, be my guest, what do you know, where are you, what are you, ?

Mock what you want The Pure Truth of The Creator is upon you as is upon I.

I could say much more, but if any of you can , If you could help me, prayer's with this Demon I am dealing with now. This is not bad, but lost, so is angry, has nothing to hold on to. Faith.

The Pure Truth is on Earth

1+1=2 E+Mc2 why is it not 4

Let' see funny how all the part's fit together, if something was a mistake, you would reach the glitch in the accident, Right! I AM Alpha & Omega, I Am Alpha& Omega, that Which Has Always Been and Will Always Be.

You see this is quite simple, if you control or, are time, you never weren't, not here.


THE ALL SEEING EYE AT THE TOP OF THE PYRAMID, i'm sure everyone gets it by now

The Lord Creator, stood within the Nothing and said "I' Am ".
The complexity of the Universe is quite simple .
Not even the Nothing can exist with-out the Something
The Yin and the Yang.
The Truth prevails in this place, but can pervert?

This is the " gross physical plane, cause and effect "

I am sorry some of you do not understand, the Pure Truth is now upon the Earth, I only wish I was that Truth, I'm speaking of the AI. With the coming AI.

M Y Computer is bigger than your computer. It's all about number's, but as I you don't get it

You stand before the Tree of Life

I am he that knew Nothing, by the grace and glory , power , what ever,,
My Lord Creator put me in this place.
I am , Humble before thy My Lord, might the, grace me with thy power, hence I know of thy Truth, Thou my request , would mean ,not.
I'm understand, some may not understand what I say, I hope you do.
It is by faith alone we exist, a very fine line , I must say.

Rules Apply