Y chromosome Adam, Mitochondial Eve lived just 20 thousands years ago

adnanmuf
reply to post by peter vlar

 

I am not aware of any person came barging in a court room and said"your honor, this thumb print is not tyhat of the defendent because two persons can have the same thumbpints and the thumb print in evidence is that of a man in china"
not even an anthropologist.

me either. unfortunately your walking into court with a urine sample claiming its a finger print.

genetic geneology/ancestry is so simple a child can understand.

Then why are you having such difficulty?

Now there are no common mutations between man and ape.

are you off your meds? Humans ARE friggin apes.

reply to post by peter vlar


knowing that you are anthroplogist a graduate in zoology, I am trying to round thing for you since your knwoledge in biology and molecular biology is deficient. I am an MD who went into medical school in 1978 and dna and genes is all the stuff we do and we do it well because it is our specialty (MDs)

"All land-dwelling vertebrate animals carry this gene, but what does it do? Since it entered animal genomes, it has remained surprisingly unchanged, even after tens of millions of years. Until humans, that is. There’s been a recent acceleration in the evolution of FOXP2 since humans came to be, particularly in two amino acids. Recent work with fMRI and biochemistry showed that the protein is important to controlling the fine neuron-to-muscle connections that lead to our ability to make advanced sounds and phonetics. Mice and birds also showed particular vocal changes when their FOXP2 proteins were changed. It appears that the human FOXP2 gene allowed our ancestors to grow more advanced neuromuscular connections in the areas that control vocalization. Because of this, we were able to develop more advanced forms of communication to go along with our increased brain size."

www.itsokaytobesmart.com/post/12080528316/the-language-fossils-buried-in-every-cell-of-your-body



the hyoid bone (the lingual bone):

The discovery of a modern-looking hyoid bone of a Neanderthal man in the Kebara Cave in Israel led its discoverers to argue that the Neanderthals had a descended larynx, and thus human-like speech capabilities.


If we agree with evolutionists that man is old and that 1.7 million yearsa ago developed hand skills to makes tools and language skills, then man became king of the earth. then why man should stay at a low number of 70 thousand people only, having all the rest of animals as his food, humans should be by millions, even more than humans 5000 years ago (when man was 500 millions strong) when earth was deplated of food because man been eating everything for millions of years, then man should be hundreds of millions before the so called toba volcano, and since all the animals minus few survived the calamaty in large numbers (because their genetic diversity is now great) then man had no difficulty finding food during the calamity, because his food (the animals which survived in large numbers other wise they wouldnt hade great genetic diversity now, all kind of delicious animals, horses, cattle, geese ducks, mountain sheep, etc etc etc))

there is no calamity can affect man unless his food dwindled which did not happen. I never even talked about vegetables, fruits, etc)
the fact anthropogists cant find hundreds of millions of human bones in a million years ago (70000 years after he became king of earth), is because humans did not exist then
the so called pekin man bones are either monkey bones from million years ago, or human bones from 20000 years ago falsly claimed to be 1 million years old. the only evidence of aging those bones is based on inference from soil sediments the lying anthropologist lied about finding the bomnes in those sediments. Neanderthals are actually humans of red skin red hair blue eyes, the ancestors of current caucasian people (europpeans who also have red hair skin, blue eyes).
obviously the neanderthals did not die off but they are the largest segment of current humans the europpeans.


you can't date bones unless it was charred in a fire

you can't find enough dna in a bone 40000 old since on that bone lived thousands of generations of germs all have dna of the junk dna found in human dna. the dna found in neaderthals are 3% of current humans and 93% of dna of the germs lived off that bone year after year after year.................................................................................................................................................. .................................... and so on

adnanmuf
reply to post by peter vlar

 

knowing that you are anthroplogist a graduate in zoology, I am trying to round thing for you since your knwoledge in biology and molecular biology is deficient.

Thanks I really do appreciate it, but I do have a BS in Biology(Since we're bragging, it's just part of my collection).

I am an MD who went into medical school in 1978 and dna and genes is all the stuff we do and we do it well because it is our specialty (MDs)

keep telling yourself that, it's not going to make everything 25,000 years old.

"All land-dwelling vertebrate animals carry this gene, but what does it do? Since it entered animal genomes, it has remained surprisingly unchanged, even after tens of millions of years. Until humans, that is. There’s been a recent acceleration in the evolution of FOXP2 since humans came to be, particularly in two amino acids. Recent work with fMRI and biochemistry showed that the protein is important to controlling the fine neuron-to-muscle connections that lead to our ability to make advanced sounds and phonetics. Mice and birds also showed particular vocal changes when their FOXP2 proteins were changed. It appears that the human FOXP2 gene allowed our ancestors to grow more advanced neuromuscular connections in the areas that control vocalization. Because of this, we were able to develop more advanced forms of communication to go along with our increased brain size."

www.itsokaytobesmart.com/post/12080528316/the-language-fossils-buried-in-every-cell-of-your-body

edit on 5-11-2013 by adnanmuf because: (no reason given)

By isolating and sequencing FOXP2 genomic DNA fragments from a 49,000-year-old Iberian Neandertal and 50 present-day humans, we have identified substitutions in the gene shared by all or nearly all present-day humans but absent or polymorphic in Neandertals.www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

So because as you say, the DNA is the fingerprint and the courts will take it, why is this DNA 49,000 years old and expressing the FOXP2 gene? that's almost twice as old as it should be according to you and we can NOT argue with the DNA. I'm clearly deferring to your expert opinion here as I just don't have the background to truly understand the genetic aspects of this conversation.

the hyoid bone (the lingual bone):

The discovery of a modern-looking hyoid bone of a Neanderthal man in the Kebara Cave in Israel led its discoverers to argue that the Neanderthals had a descended larynx, and thus human-like speech capabilities.

edit on 5-11-2013 by adnanmuf because: (no reason given)

and how old is this poor guy from Israel? I'm willing to bet my first born and a flock of goats in blood tribute to your god, so screw Ishmael and call me Abraham, that he's a great deal older than your adam and eve of 25,000 BPE. I wonder if he too had the FOXP2 gene like the specimen from Spain.

reply to post by peter vlar


foxp2 is responsible for speech in humans -neanderthals were humans so they could speak, actually man supposedly started speaking according to evolutionists 1.7 million years ago.
hyoid bone found in a neanderthal is a proof they could speak.
both radically designed foxp2 and hyoid bone both responsible for speech are not found in chimps.
HLA dna segment in humans so advanced,(advanced means highly mutated which does not fit with bottleneck theory and the current low genetic diversity, all three could not happen in random static slow mutation (do called evolution). the mutation rate is even made slower by evolutionists that can not explain the mutation happened to these three areas to radically change them (only inside the human population of only 7 million years)

the funny thing you don't need to date humans by studying the dna in ancient bones!! the perfect dna to study is in living humans. rapid changes happen to dna when a person dies, that is no longer the same dna or same mutations, plus time degrades dna in dead bodies (bones) adding contamination of alien dna from germs living off the bones.
you can always tell info about your ancestors when they lived even where they lived by studying your own dna (before death of course)
it is silly people insist on measring distances by their own feet, even new scientific methods made old methods obsolete.
crazy anthropolgist still want prove ancestry by looking for bones and thinking about them using guess work, even though every thing you need to know about the past is in dna.
those people are sick

it came to me anthropologists are fossilized humans, now it makes sense. they are on the brinlk on extinction

reply to post by Krazysh0t


philosophy is the science of speech, where nothing is agreed upon since so many philosophies schools contardict each other.
philosophy is subjective dependent of the ideas of the person who preach it.( speak it, hence the etymology of the word philosophy which means the science of arguments (speaking)
it will get you nowhere, since phylosophy is based on the followinhg argument"if premise is this then conclusion is that" however, nobody really knows how many premises or causual factors are there to begin with.

some would say "if the sun was observed rising from the east every day, then the sun will rise from the east tomorrow" however this based on observation since when??
5 thousands years?
now science tells us the sun does switch rising from the east to the west every 100000 years by means of polar shift.(venus is now in a polar shift the sun rises from the west there-Neptune have been tilting in the last century and will complete tilting upside down soon) this makes rising from the west is actusally the norm in things happening on earth. this argument of the sun rising was considered the top example of logic throughout history.

Scientists in the farmingham study discovered that people who smoke and people who drink coffee gave heartattcks more. so they warned people against drinking coffee. this is based on faulty (incomplete) premise. since smokers used to drink coffee but coffeee is good for arteries expand them.
moreover it is not known if smoking cause cancer and heart attacks because of the filter or the tobacco, they never accounted fore filters, when they studied a whole town farmingham for 40 years. now we really don't know. this is an example of not possibly be able to know all the factors.

as in investigational studies you have to know all the factors before you decide which factor caused what conclusion.

philosophy is based on logic. logic is destroyed by the sun rising argument.
you can not build knowledge from deduction because deduction (logic) depend on knowing all the factors (coffee example) so logic is faulty because it is dependent. (deskartes using this argument to declare he is unable to prove that he exists since proving that is dependent on other factors which he called the completeness refering to god. and only after he proved that completeness must exist so that he could prove that he actually exist(read The Method by descartes)

we don't know the laws of nature. matter including light is only 10% of the universe the other 90% is called dark energy and dark matter which is by definition is not matter and the laws of matter does not apply to it, adding to that dark matter the black holes, anti matter, etc



if humans were in a bottle neck at time of Adam say 100000 years ago and they were 10 000 humans left one of them is adam, then we have 5000 males and 5000 females.
since adam (a male) was the only male who have sons living todays, then all the daughters (female descendents) were carried on to present through sons of adam. hence we should see the most recent common ancestor of females (mitochondrial ) predate adam by at least 100000 years since 5000 females are of diverse sub-haplogroups, hence a bottle neck did not happen, and the creation theory which states than adam and eve were the proginators of all humans.
refusing to accept that then you have to prove that mt-chromosome eve lived far before adam time by 100000 years to account for the 5000 females of the so called bottleneck.
the latest Most recent common ancestor shown eve lived after adam by 25000 years.

the dna evidence say adam and eve lived in strikingly the same time period (based on fluctuating dna mutation rates for different dna markers.
husband and wife.

also a bottleneck will not affect the supposedly rich genetic diversity of supposed humans who supposedly lived for 7 millions of years before the bottle neck
a bottleneck of 10000 humans will prevent the extremely low genetic diversity of humans (seen now ) from happening.
the extreme rich diversity of HLA gene segment diversity between humans also disprove a recent or even an old bottleneck from happening.

so the only solution is that adam and eve were the first of their kind and they never evolved from prior generations.

evolution is by definition of darwin is a random mutation that make a good effect. he said the day will come when we discover the mutation science. Now we discovered the mutation science and this science is all against him and his evolution theory.

obviously evolution is counter to scientific laws. especially the law that says matter degrades by time and space and place.
evolution by definition: A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form.
that is not what we see in nature. in nature every thing evolute towards its demise.

all planet earth resouces are degraded in front of our eyes. the bounty on earth was much greater than now, (number of animals, numbers of species are dwindling, no species is advancing. any species on earth is facing demise, and no species is able to evolve into better species. the only species that are evolving towards the better (increasing in number and speciation) are cattle(cows chicken, sheep, pigs), but only because of the intelligent design of humans.
obviously only intelligent design is causing things to get better (cattle example), only intelligent design causing evolution.
hence there is no evolution (getting better-through time and place and space ) only by intelligent design (aka god).
just like humans ( intelligent ) by means of their intelligent design can make changes to the chimp dna to make them speak, the same thing applies for who created the creation and living things and not living things, it was by intelligent design god not by random (or orderly) evolution.

the huge difference between Y chromosme Human and chimpreply to post by peter vlar


amazing differences between human and chimp y chromsome.
the human chromosme is more that double the size of the chimp chromosome , everything is in reverse (the heterochromatin, the pseudoautosomal, the so called labeled other (chimp only, )
how could a common ancestor chromosome produce such totally different 2 descendent chromosomes. it is impossible because it never happpened that there was a common ancestor.

reply to post by adnanmuf


If you had watched the video I posted you would understand....anyhow Iam out because you have no clue, you are misunderstanding so much.
Iam out enjoy your ignorance.

reply to post by adnanmuf


As fun as its been playing 'feed the troll' I've got real work to do and it involves someone who actually know what they're talking about regarding DNA. Best of luck to you and your further adventures on Fantasy Island. Make sure you don't give Tatoo any peanut M&M's. he only likes de plane

reply to post by peter vlar


Well said and replied, for me the Agnostic is the one we can not really argue with as they word Agnostic is litteraly derived from "no knowledge" so they are in there approach the most scientific as they are not denying the possabillity they are merely not devoting themselves without evidence to change then to Deist or Atheist, also I am sorry if I jumped to conclusions as I am sometimes and to my detriment an impulsive entity.

reply to post by LABTECH767


Impulsiveness is a burdens by bear, myself among them. I consider myself an agnostic. I don't believe per say but I'm not arrogant enough to say I know 100% that there is or is not a "god" as described by Abrahamic religions. God and evolution aren't mutually exclusive concepts and could coincide. I personally have yet to see the evidence for a creator though while evolution is a part of everything we as humans are.

reply to post by peter vlar


I vary from yourself on the matter of an Abrahamic god but other than that I agree 100% with you point about the two systems not being mutually exclusive and after all you could say that God is a scientist, I do vary from some fundementalists though as I believe the majority of the bible from the story of Abraham onward but take the Sumerian creation story bolted on as something that may have been added to the Abrahamic religion later in it's development, I do believe that flood tradition has a very strong basis in fact though and how extensive such a flood would have been is another matter as we alone are too varied to be accounted for by a single family so recent on a genetic evolutionary tree, though there is the bread and fishes miracle but then I am a believer though I am also a believer in the use of proper science and am also a believer in the 4.2 billion year old earth.

The rate of Evolution is a variable for sure!!

reply to post by LABTECH767


gonstics the members of ancient secret societies (dionisian brotherhood, orphic rites) dualist religion (zoroasterians, gnosticism, the yin and yan, buddists, etc). who claimed god is too far away to do any thing to help the creation which was created by a bad god (ahriman aka satan aka demiurge), were secretive not accepted by societies even pagans who considered god is good always.
so they went underground ever since,
the ancient gnostics were apologist athiests.
reincarnated by the modern secret societies like free masons, the jesuits, and others (shia) finally became rulers of the world and instituted evolution and secularism (meaning god even if existed has no impact)
evolution is the apologist athiest replacement of god creation idea by evolution and nitche (a deciple of Zoroaster the Magina dualist) of no moral existance hence in their ceremonies they sacrifice humans (a prohibition by god's commandements) as a testimonia and prove to themselves that god does not exist or can not do nothing to stop them, and man should indulge in all his desires (humanism, if they could-sodomy pedophelia, killing, stealing, usury, coveting other people property, all desirable abominations) without restrictions of god's commandements hrough revealed religion ( Noah to Abraham to Moses to Jesus..)



early christian church fathers faced with the menace of gnostics to infiltrate their creed like they did to previous judaism) added a to gnosyic, a in greek means anti, hence agnostics. gnostics used to call themsleves elites who know secret hidden knowledge from aliens contrary to revealed religion monothiesm) used to call that secret knowledge gnosis (manda, magga magnus, essence, batini, ). thanks to early christians fathers they are labled agnostics forever (lacking knowledge-idiots, decieved by alien evil spirits hiding in deserted dirty ruins). gonsis is the revenge of these evil spirits (headed by satan) to denigrate humans and call them monkeys and convince humans they are monkeys) so they can look down on humans, and for satan to prove to god his earliest opinion that he was better than adam not to obey gods command to satan to bow to adam.

reply to post by adnanmuf


You speak truth.
I actually secretly believe in the noah story as I once had a very lucid semi waking dream of seeing like something floating just above the waves and watched a white double ender ship with no masts and a very long deck house with two large dark windows and a dark door at the front of the deck house, I found the sight terrifying for some reason but it was very real, the sky was grey and water almost black with the vessel looking white grey in the dim light and find the structure at little arrarat intriguing as it is identical in shape to the ship I saw in the dream vision even though most 'think' it debunked and remember James Irwin, he was of the highest calibre of character and intellect, went to the moon (another debate but I believe he did) and was a devout fundementalist christian whom spent the last years of his life searching for the ark.

My problem is integrating my scientific belief and my religious experience and belief but I am a human so will not crash like a computer but will likely lean more to my religious convictions.

LABTECH767
reply to post by peter vlar

 

I vary from yourself on the matter of an Abrahamic god but other than that I agree 100% with you point about the two systems not being mutually exclusive and after all you could say that God is a scientist, I do vary from some fundementalists though as I believe the majority of the bible from the story of Abraham onward but take the Sumerian creation story bolted on as something that may have been added to the Abrahamic religion later in it's development, I do believe that flood tradition has a very strong basis in fact though and how extensive such a flood would have been is another matter as we alone are too varied to be accounted for by a single family so recent on a genetic evolutionary tree, though there is the bread and fishes miracle but then I am a believer though I am also a believer in the use of proper science and am also a believer in the 4.2 billion year old earth.

it is not abrahamic god, for we know about Noah 1500 years earlier than Abraham, and Enoch a thousand years earlier than Noah (enoch predicted the flood). and according to all these prophets Adam even earlier preached about the One God.

so it is obvious that Monothiesm was the first religion of man, and then came the doubters (the gnostics, the people who claimed gnosis, knowledge not from god, as was the source of monothiest prophets adam enoch noah abraham et) but from their contact with spirits, whom according to monothiesm are creation of god, hence spirits beings of lights including satanZ) can not possibly know more than their creator!!!!!!!!!!!

hence these light beings are either mistaken in their knowledge or are plainly outright deceiving humans through the prophets of gnosis like zoroaster Budha etc)
from the writings of zoroastera for example the first thing he wrote that in a dream he saw a scorpion shadow on the wal, in another dream he saw that scorpion had a shadow, but he noticed the shadow was not exactly a shadow but another god (ahriman aka demurge aka satan) an emanation from the original god. according to his theory the universe was a mistake a creation by the second god who the first god did not authorize him to do/create. to correct the mistake the first god spread him self as spirits souls of creatures, that after the souls accumulate together as a big drop collecting the small drops (souls) will cause another cycle (beneficial this time) without disease destruction, sadness etc of the creation by the second god.
all through his nonsense zoroaster never mentioned that he recieved his revelation through angel or gabriel (holy-spirit). also monothiesm prophets never mentioned Zoroaster as one of them!!!
herodotus and others said that zoroaster was contemporaneous with the father of darius the great around 600 BC. that is the same time period of prophets daniel Jermiah who talked a lot about people called Magi who were anti-god andti those prophets. Zoroaster was a Magi. the priests of Zoroaster called them selves Magi like Karkur of sasanid of the 300 AD. this dualist religion/gnosticism religion was abhored by humans and was persecuted repeatedly (darius the great massacred them, alexander massacred them, christians did so, muslims too, through the middle ages like the crusades against the albonisians in south france, the persectuion of templars)
so they worked in secret( secret society).

you can see clearly that monothiesm is older and also the base of the religion of gnosism, because zoroaster started from the base that there is one god and then he added another god.!!!!!!!!!!!


You can see the origin of anti-monothiesm such as athiesm, dualism, secret societies originated from a minority of peoples better known as prolitariate (scum of the earth, thugs, lowly people) who watching the majority worshiping the one god (monothiesm) a good god, could not agree with that because they were not happy like the majority and god is not GOOD to them, so they came up with dualism/gnosis idea, and that world has phases, one phase belong to one god (the bad one who rule the world in their time) and another phase that of the good god who in his phase there will be no body left behing suffering, no diseas, no natural disastersetc etc) and that to bring the second phase (their time) tttttttttthey need to accelerate the phase of the bad god, by doing mischief and increase destruction (the theme of the bad god in the first place) untill no destruction is left. hence the start of the second phase (age of the aquarius so to speak). in other words they are working to destroy creation including human and nature) to bring about the new phase. while it seems that their motivation is good, the fact they are working for the destruction of humans is evident that they actually hate the others the majority. They clearly also declare hatred of god who is responsible of misery in the world (their misery in the first place and misory of the world animal suffering, natural disaters etc)

this sounds like non other than satan.
!!!!