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End this media-promoted, "kung-fu" madness!

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posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 09:05 PM
reply to post by PhoenixOD

I agree boxing is much more effective then most kung fu. Everyone should study boxing to some degree if they are into martial arts. I personally feel the power behind boxing comes from it's footwork. Some of it's fending stuff works pretty well on the inside too. But a good boxer will have superb foot work and flank. being flanked sucks.

posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 09:11 PM
reply to post by BASSPLYR

your point about boxing, I agree to a large extent. Simple, effective footwork, distance and timing as well as efficient striking. I've always been curious as to what would happen if a boxer employed a vertical fist and used their strong side forward, Bruce Lee style. I don't agree with the rotation of the wrist that boxing seems to employ, It works just fine with the gloves, but from working a heavy bag, I can get much more power from a vertical fist position, with no injury to my wrist without gloves on. I may be missing something with the boxing technique though.

Also to add, the technique of slipping a punch in boxing is very effective. It correlates to the yielding principle in tai chi, shifting your weight and turning the waist to avoid incoming force
edit on 2-12-2013 by Tasmanaut because: (no reason given)

One more thing on the topic, the jab in boxing, highly effective and crucial in a boxing match, I don't feel its so important or effective for self defense. In my line of thinking, that jab could be turned into a straight lead punch, so rather than an annoyance/range finding effect, every strike would still have whole body power
edit on 2-12-2013 by Tasmanaut because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-12-2013 by Tasmanaut because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 09:14 PM

reply to post by CardiffGiant

Hey that post your referring to was intended to be sarcastic and funny. Re read it but with that perspective, might make you laugh.

yeah, i got that. i went back and read all the posts and it hit me.
nicely done. when i first read it it threw me.

posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 09:22 PM
reply to post by CardiffGiant

Hey sorry if I came off as a dick. I don't have a problem with grappling. Just think that there is a lot more to combative martial arts than just that. Just so you know. We may have different opinions but I respect the player. And yes I have had a grappler humble me a few times. But I've also done the same back.

posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 09:27 PM

reply to post by CardiffGiant

I see where you are going with this. Ground fighting has it's place. It's not superior though. I agree that it is a better choice for certain people and in certain situations. But to say that 99% of all fights go there. thats too much mma and not enough talking to bouncers, bailiffs and other assorted folk. 99% of fights end there when the rules forbid things like gee i don't know punching to the back of the head, neck, dropping an elbow into same said places. sprawling with an elbow onto some dudes neck attempting a take down. Youre telling me none of this works in a confrontation. If it were it would be in MMA. Guess most of the fighting forces of the world train to handle takedowns by doing just that because they're ignorant, misguided, its never worked reliably in the past...guess they never fought a BJJ player to know any better.

Change the rules of an MMA fight to reflect reality and the fights would look a whole lot different. And don't give me this "but back in the very first UFC" BS. Anyone going into the ring is training for that and not for combatives period, they aren't even trained the same. You were not seeing combatives, you weree seeing mediocre classical martial artists who were misguided getting beat up by meat heads who are equally misguided but in better shape.

ok. i will concede on the 99% but i will say a LOT. i dont really talk to anyone that fights outside of pre planned fights. amateur fights on the circuit. i talk to my two brothers and guys from their training camp. i am in no way the master of arts but they call me to ask me this or that. they send me clips of them fighting/training and ask certain things that pertain to specifics. i am pretty anti social. when i was younger and i was fighting(i explained it) there were rules in place.
i dont like to fight if it is not in that type of situation.
for me though, the ground was always where it was. i took tae kwon do before i got heavy into grappling and i enjoyed it but even then i knew i didnt want to be in a situation where i would get hit.
some people get off on trading blows but i dont. one of the key factors to me joining wrestling was getting popped in the mouth.
i was probably in 6th grade at the time and i was at the park playing basketball and the typical school yard arguments started about a foul or something and one of the kids rocked me in the mouth. it wasnt a fight because he didnt hit me again and i did nothing to fight back, even though i had taken tae kwon do.
i was just so stunned. my lip was busted up and i was bleeding and i kind of just froze. that was the pivitol moment for me.
i never wanted to be in a spot where i could get blasted in the face like that.
if the rules were changed i dont think things would be much different. i think there would be more 'dirtier' fighting.
i think you would see curb type foot stomps and soccer kicks. you would probably see guys getting mounted and eye gouged and fish hooked but thats it.
i dont think a true 'anything goes' type of rule set would change the game up that much.

i suppose you would probably get elbows to the back of the head and neck. in reality though, those are awesome strikes if you are fighting for your life. they are too dangerous for sport though.
i would still say grappling is better suited for real life situations.
it goes without saying you better have some game on your feet as well. it would just be silly to think otherwise.

posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 09:32 PM
reply to post by Tasmanaut

I understand what your saying. But if you get caught with a well placed jab as your stepping in it can be very effective. Me personally. I like to sorta side step in to the outside of the shoulder and throw a jab/psuedo cross. Ie.. GUy comes at me with a left straight and I sidestep to the right right foot forward. Shrug and throw a right parry. But if I shrug and the parry doesn't connect I instantly tend to go straight into a right cross/ jab sorta thing. Kinda like a long range right hook with the front foot/hand. From there I'm to the outside I can elbow, press and check the guy or just avult forward and use my body weight (once inside the guys space directly behind and center of his left shoulder and in between his feet ) and yank back on the guys head, shoulder, arm slamming him to the ground or simply body check and slam the guy. either will do.

SO instead of jab. Sde step IN and hook. then immediately go into whatever rock and roll you prefer. Grapplers. Slam homeboy down and cannon ball with both knees into....anything. doesn't matter. guy sticks his arm out to fend it gets crushed. clip his hip as he rolls away, cool it just broke. Land on his leg as he "Shrimps up" fine he just lost that leg. Land on his abdomen something just got ruptured. Land on his ribs you just punctured something. Land on the sternum, the shoulder, the neck, the do the math. Simple effective. Grapple the guy down. Cannon ball him. get up walk away.

If your a boxer or a striker....oh man... theres not enough server space to get into those options.

posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 09:38 PM
reply to post by BASSPLYR

Have you looked much into the vertical fist straight punch as opposed to jab? I wish I had a video to show what I'm talking about

posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 09:38 PM
reply to post by CardiffGiant

I totally understand where you are coming from and deepy respect your experience. I too had a smiar reaction when I was about 12 and thought I was the beezneez after getting to something like a green belt at the time. GOt into my first fight with some kid who was like 1 and gang banging around chastworth with 21 year old peckerwoods doing god knows what. Dude bitch slapped me...hard...with his full body weight and he was a big boy. I was stunned. I too froze and was not able to handle the shock. Got my ass kicked went home for the summer and changed course with my martial arts and vowed to not let that happen again.

Of course a few years later I got that injury I told you about in the previous thread. Which proves that you can train real hard and still run up against things that are just beyond your ability to handle. Like getting jumped by vatos and getting pile driven into the sidewalk.

posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 09:44 PM
all i know is that, bruce lee kicked chuck norris's butt!

posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 09:51 PM

reply to post by CardiffGiant

Gotta agree with you. Catch as catch can and shoot fighting are excellent. But it's good to get proficient at both grappling and striking. heres my question. WHy focus so much on grappling that makes both of you end up on the ground. Wouldn't it be a whole lot smarter to flank the guy using basic boxing footwork, go into a sambut or some dumog and throw the guy to the ground then stomp face. WHy on earth would you go to the ground with him? WHy on earth would you mount him? Thats stupid on so many levels. Wanna know grappling that won't get you killed. Judo throw...face stomp. Thats it. why would you go to the ground. I know cause the other guy did a double leg takedown. It always ends up with a double leg takedown and then a mount. I get it. But what about all the other times that doesn't happen. Judo throw... stomp. Not judo throw, or two legged takedown roll around on the ground until someone else head stomps you. But all fights end up with a double leg takedown and a mount!!!! none of mine did, and I've been fights so bad that I had to get reconstructive surgery on my left eye socket from being pile driven left eye first into the sidewalk. I was blind out of my left eye for 4 weeks. So you're not alone in the dabbled in a few fights thing. I wasnt taken to the ground and mounted. I was slammed to the ground and stomped. Trust me thats how it goes down.

its just kind of the way it worked i guess. maybe my personality. i do not do well in social situations and i never go to bars or placs where there are crowds. for the most part i think my risk is small.
i told you i got popped in the face that one time and i knew right away it was not for me. i dove into grappling and just absorbed all i could. i was always very comfortable there.
i have never been in a street fight but takedown to mount or side control, back control is how it has worked for me.

guys would come to the camp and want to train or a quick gentlemans fight would get lined up.
it would not take very long to be mounted and throwing punches.
ive done it and it has heppened to me. never in anger really trying to whoop some guy in the parking lot of the gas station. so, even though it was full contact, full blast, the tap or the towel or a verbal submission was always possible.

personally, a hane goshi/uchi mata to foot stomp to the face is just as fast and just as effective as an ankle pick to mounted punches.
for me i am saying.
just cause your plethora of fights ended that way does not mean they all do.

there are many ways to take a person down and wind up with them on their belly and you on their back.
judo has takedowns.

the mor gari or moroti gari. something like that. sorry, its been a while.
there are near endless takedowns/throws/trips.

i guess in the end it is just a personal thing. for me it is comfort and control. i am more comfortable on the ground and i feel i could control myself and the other person better.
what if you and me were getting ready to tussle and i tried for the throw(uchi mata)?
i could land it and go for the stomp but it is possible you know how to fall and it does not work the way i want. it is possible you can snatch my foot while i am on 1 foot and therefore off balance.
i dont know you. what if you are familiar with this stuff and you nail me with a counter? i think it is called sakashi. i dont know.

if i go for the double leg or an ankle pick there are still several counters with that of course but i am more comfortable dealing with them.
sprawl? then you have to do something with it.
strikes to the back of my head? very possible but you will be trying to stay balanced because of the attempt and the strikes will not be effective.
a knee to my face as i come in? again, very possible. it could connect and put my lights out. ive seen it happen in real life and in pro mma. if not though, youre going down.
this is a long winded way of saying comfort i guess.
you asked why and that is my super long answer.. ha

of course none of it could work out for me and you could put my lights out with any number of punches or kicks.
its all possible all the time.

thank you all for engaging me in this conversation. i am having a lot of fun. i love to talk about this stuff but i ddont really have people to talk to. i dont talk to my brothers that often anymore and my wife gets bored with it.
as you can see, i could (and do) go on and on about it

posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 09:56 PM
reply to post by Tasmanaut

I love the vertical fist!!! I don;t like to use it like bruce lee did as a jab. His was more of a back fist anyways. Ad he had hella long reach with it. Thanks to what he did with his rear foot rotation wise. But I feel it puts you into a precarious position on occasion and prefer to be much more guarded and closed up when I strike. But the vertical fists I like to do from of the parry. do a kelid (sorta like a parry + a inside block like thingy) stepping to the outside. and since your blocking hand is the closest to the opponants face and your lead foot (same as the blocking hand) is somewhere inside your opponants base and space. Just launch that vertical punch a cross the face. aim for the jaw but your real goal is to turn the head. YOu'll probably hit with the fist and the forearm will drag across the face in the follow through efectively turning hte head. Whalla. opponents spine is locked, hes off balance. You are to the "outside", he has no real viable options and you are positioned stance wise to crank the guy over your hip or leg in a classical judo throw/reap using your forearm as a leaver/clothesline. It's simple fast, and drops the guy onto the ground from the onset. It's not hard to learn either.

From there head stomp. on to the next.

THats one unorthodox way to use a verticle fist. Another is striaght blasting down the center. A guy throws a hook at you. You vault into it, spear with both of your hand up in front of you. stop hit and then proceed to use vertical chain punches. Don't do them the WIng Chun way. Not enough body mass behind them to be effective...somehow the wing chung guys although they practice it forget about Jik Bo somehow (straight/pressing step) Kali and Silat guys do it in a more structurally efficient way. Vertical punches coming down the center are better employed with your body weight behind it. Look up supported punches on the internet or something.

Vertical punches are also good for coming over the guys arm after a parry from the outside cause they sorta ride over the opponents arm and tend to land in the face well. THink like a horse rearing up and coming down with it's hoves in your face. TO me vertical punches are best used from a compact body structure firing them from the center and the n withdrawing them quickly and only to the face are.

Vertical punch also collapse well into elbows and rotar parrys. Good stuff. Not the strongest punch but can be plenty powerful to get the job done. It's versitality is what does it the most favors though.

posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 10:04 PM
reply to post by CardiffGiant

Hey cliff. Fan of the ankle pick. Won't find an argument with me there. It's also sneaky. Lots of guys who haven't seen one before will fall prey to it. It should be a part of everyone's routine. I was most familiar in it when a shoot wrestler taught me some stuff the hard way in a few friendly sessions. Then the guy mixed in ankle picks with elbows to my shins and locked leg. @(#*$&$%@**&!!!!!!!!!!!! was pretty much the only thing coming out of my mouth when he did that. I was also falling straight to the ground quicker then one of those guys in a tazer demo a locked straight falling like a tree.

You can IM me anytime. I too love talking about this and am happy to do so. Especially with you since you've been around the block a few times and know what it's like. We may disagree with methodology (grappling vs striking) but It's be a fun time in my book talking over the subject of martial arts in general and I'm glad to do it with you guys here. Same goes for the others in this forum. DId I mention sorry if I have come off like pompus dick in the last few posts.

posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 10:08 PM
reply to post by BASSPLYR

I hear what you are saying about the straight blast. One of the problems i have with the WC system is their lack of core rotation and weight transfer. I've found a straight blast to be highly effective if you really employ your core and don't focus on thrusting the arm as the WC guys do. I hope that makes sense.

I understand what you mean about the straight vertical lead putting you into a precarious position. In boxing terms, say i'm a southpaw with my strong side forward vs and orthodox stance. If i shoot and miss, he can counter with a right hook and I'm toast. You really need to connect and not bluff as I've found out messing around with a buddy...

I used to think Bruce Lees straight punch had a snapping backfist kind of mechanic and that is the way I practiced it for a while, but now I think there are two kinds. There is the whipping, snapping backfist kind of straight punch and there is the full body, core powered straight punch... I've found a video that shows what I'm talking about, this is more or less the technique I've stumbled upon

at 4:45, I believe this is the real 'internal' type of strike
edit on 2-12-2013 by Tasmanaut because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 10:25 PM
the foot work in western boxing is second to none.
hey bassplyer, when you get rocked in the mouth hard enough it definitely changes your tune huh? sure did for me
that day at the park was a critical point in my life. it wasnt so much that i was in actual pain. it was more i couldnt believe what just happened. i knew i never wanted it to happen again.
i was bleedng. i was stunned. my arms and legs were shaking. i simply didnt knoww what to do so i didnt do anything. i had taken tae kwon do for a couple years at that point but i couldnt draw from any of it. i simply couldnt do anything.

these days, as far as it goes for me i watching fights. i dont watch boxing. i watch mma from all over. i watch my brothers fights as well as guys they train with. whenever college or high school wrestling is on tv i watch that.
i love to analyze it and break it down. the science and the mechanics of it.
when i still was training i had a bunch of anatomy books. i was studying the muscles in the body so i could get better at tweaking submissions.
when i moved to the north when my mother married my step father, i aquired 3 step brothers. they were much younger so i immediately got them started. first on movies and then on messing around with me.
1 of them wrestled in junior high and high school. of course i was involved with him. i tried to help him as much as possible.

the high school wrestlers up here were always tight with each other so there were always a few of them at the house and of course we had mats in the garage. i as always rolling with the high school guys. i would go up to the school during open gym and roll with them. the coach was real cool about it.
some of the guys that were on the team the year before, years before, or even 10 years before would come to the open gym to help the team out.
there were no submission schools anywhere near where we lived. i would go to the gym during practice and watch. after practice most of the guys stayed to keep rolling. a few of them would get with me and my brother and i would get away from the folk style wrestling and start in on the catch. i had a blast.
one of the x wrestlers would take a few guys and show them stuff. i would take a few of the guys and show them catch. i miss those days.
its in my blood. i never took it where i wanted to. i moved up north and shortly after that i had a child so all the martial arts got put on hold. i didnt have the time, place, or money to do it at the level i wanted to so i lost it.
went through my own trials in live.
now i am married and i have a 14 month old daughter. i have all the time in the world but my hand injury does not let me do anything. its hard for me because my actual days of grappling are over but i have a lot of knowledge i want to share and nobody to give it to just yet.
my son is 16 and wants nothing to do with it. i cant/wont force him to get into it. i always bring it up and he calls me gay.
hes joking of course but he does not care for it.

i hope my daughter takes an interest in it because i have a lot of knowledge to pour into her. IF she likes it.
i day dream about it.
my baby girl fighting ronda rousey's daughter for the title at ufc 535. you know?'
we will see. my daughter may not care about it either but i hope not.

my wife has a younger brother but he was not right for it. i wanted to show him but he has too much of an attitude. it just would not have worked.

my wife grew up watching wrestling on tv with her brother when she was a kid. not so much anymore. grew out of it like most of us do.
i blew her mind when i told her how pro wrestling as we know it today came to be. how it evolved from catch wrestling into what it is now.
i just love the stories of the old carnie dudes that would put it on people.

the 'everyman'.. you know
these guys were all hard workers. working in the mines or in the foundry(i am/was a foundryman)
they worked hard and didnt make good money so they would take fights on the side.
i cant imagine these guys working a crazy shift in the foundry and then having a match after work in the parking while in their work clothes but thats how it happened.
some of them were farmers.
these dudes were solid. strong, tough as nails type guys.
they joined the carnivals and that is the birth of pro wrestling.

i was never as good as i wanted to be(who is) but i was pretty good.
i definitely learned a lot from a lot of different people. i was like a sponge soaking it all up.

do you have any experience with krav maga? i personally dont but i am very interested in it. it is very aggressive and i like that. its founder, imi lichenfeld seems like he was a bad dude, especially for a little guy. kind of like helio gracie.

in the end i love it all. my amputation has developed into a different monster all together. i am going to have problems for life. i am seriously considering taking up tai chi.
i think it will be good for my physical and mental health. i think working through the forms and such would be good for me.
it has nothing to do with fighting for me at this point. strictly mental health.

posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 10:38 PM

reply to post by CardiffGiant

Hey cliff. Fan of the ankle pick. Won't find an argument with me there. It's also sneaky. Lots of guys who haven't seen one before will fall prey to it. It should be a part of everyone's routine. DId I mention sorry if I have come off like pompus dick in the last few posts.

i dont think you came off like a dick. no more than myself so i am sorry as well. its just passion man.

i love, love, love the ankle pick. it is my single most favorite takedown. you dont really see it a lot in profsssional fighting.
sakuraba used it effectively several times though. sakuraba was a different/unique kind of fighter though.
he was a catch wrestler but he has his unique style. they didnt call him the IQ wrestler for nothing.
same goes for you. feel free to IM me anytime cause i will talk about this stuff all day. i have a great time comparing stories, notes, opinions, etc.

i love how this thread turned into 9 pages of awesome martial arts discussion.

let me also say this. as much as i say grappling is superior, i can put that opinion aside when it comes to the movies. i LOVE martial arts movies. ALL of them. just a huge, super nerd fan when it comes to that stuff.
have you seen ip man? ip man 2?
im sure you have but if not you should run out and watch them. donnie yen as the ip man. dude, those movies are so nasty.

what about tony jaa? ong bak.... love it

my main man jackie chan. drunken master and legend of drunken master. there is of course some hung gar in legend of and also some choy li fut.
one of my all time favorites though is true legend. i highly recommend it.

this guy su is a chinese warrior. he winds up getting messed up by his 'brother'. his brother has mastered the 5 venoms and lays it on him. well su gets all depressed and winds up training with the old sage and the god of wushu. he is training with those 2 and he is learning drunken fist. he is a drunkard at this point.
in the end the training was all in his mind but he has to get the road to save his family and take out the brother with the venoms. it is so sick man. this guys drunken style is the truth. i love it.
i love anytime druken fist shows up in movies. i think jackie does amazing drunken fist in his 2 drunken master movies. i am such a sucker for that stuff.

what about one called chocolate? please get your hands on that.
its from the people that did ong bak.
the plot is so cool.
it circles around this autistic girl. her mother was some sort of collector for the triads. well mommy gets cancer or something and can not get treatment because she is poor. the little autistic girls figures out somehow that the triads owe her mom money so she sets out to go collect it and she whips up on tons of people.
she is super fast and her reflexes are heightened. she learned muay thai and other styles from watching them on tv. all she did was just sit there with the blank stare and watch martial arts movies and she soaked it all up.
she is nasty and it is a fantastic movie.

posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 10:51 PM
you ever see this vids of bas rutten on fight science?
the first one is him delivering aa punch to the spleen

bas hits with a lot of power. for the record, all the way back the bas's early days of fighting he was an advocate for taking people out by strong shots to the liver. he fought jason delucia, a jeet kun do guy once(the same guy that got his arm broke by royce) and bas ruptured his liver in the match.
bas rutten used to end fights with his body shots.
to get a tad offtopic on this post, i give jason delucia lots of credit. he was into aikido, kung fu(not sure what style) and jeet kun do and he put it up against some serious strikers and grapplers.
he has something like 60 fights.
he never had many serious wins but he did beet yuki kondo and funaki at one point.

back to bas rutten. this next video is testing who has the most powerful kick and guess what, its bas.
its a long video but its cool. i know fight science is not the end all be all but it is fun to watch.
bas rutten was an amazing striker and to this day is still an amazing coach. i love his style and his attitude towards fighting.
i cant imagine taking a strike from bas.

he is known for his peaceful ways. he is known for getting into it outside the ring a couple of times. the stories and interviews are out there. people will try to mess with him and he will give them a few chances to walk away or he will try to avoid the situation a couple of times but if it dont work and they press on, bas will take them out.

anyway, here is the vid with the kicks. karate, muah thai, capoeira(which is amazing and beautiful and i love it) and bas rutten.

bas is not in that video but it is still cool
edit on 2-12-2013 by CardiffGiant because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 11:06 PM
Oh Man this thread is turning out pretty good. We bickered, for the love of the topic, we worked it out. We're having fruitful conversation. Free to agree and disagree but still engaging in a subject they are passionate for. If only other ATS threads could work out this way.

Anyways, so much stuff to comment on in the last few posts! seen Ip Man etc... good movies. I recommend The Raid for some brutal eye opening fight sequences.

As for your injury. There was a well respected martial arts master on the island of java. On the western side of the island in the jungles there was a dude born with a deformity. He had no left hand and a right club foot. He was however a master of martial arts. The locals called him Pak Sera. Pak means uncle or something similar. Sera means everything in Sundanese from wise, owl, to hoarse and rough/gritty. Originally trained in the local style, A style that favored agility,flanking, long range to middle range defense and attacks. Very popular on the island a the time. The dude refined a system of fighting that worked similar to how a grappler would approach a situation. Look for a superior dominant position and use body mechanics and leverage much like a wrestler and slam the guy down then he would follow up with any sort of preferred finish move once on the ground. The point is the guy had one hand and a bumb leg and made martial arts work spectacularly for him.

So going back to principles and concepts. You know the principles, the science and concepts behind what you do. You got a lifetime of experience and serious knowledge about this. I believe you have begun to adapt the principals to work for your body and current situation.

Still need some time to reply to all the good stuff in the last few posts. Man my posts get less coherent the later it gets in the evening.

posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 11:18 PM
Going to write a longer post when I can about Bas. But in general is all positive. As far as Capoeira goes. People that don't understand it give it a bum rap. But I've spared against some real good capoeira guys and I have a definitive opinion about the art. I have any pros about the art that many of which were suprising to me. Some serious takedowns that believe me you aint never seen coming. SO weaknesses too. But all in all I gotta say I was suprised when I tangled with legit Capoeira players. I still feel like I (in my own biases) have an edge with my philosophy but damn there is one dude who is a real good capoeira player (he's also an expert at shoot fighting, silat, kabujitsu) who terifys me. I will not spar with this guy. Much of what he does is not capoeira but damn when he throws it in it will catch you off guard and it's not what you'd expect from Capoeira. That being said it's not my favorite. But I'll give credit when it's due. It's waaay more viable than people think. GOing back to the trained eye thing I was talking about in earlier posts. Break down what a Capoeira player is doing and you'll see judo, shoot fighting (not alot but some of the same stuff is there) whipy kenpo type strikes. head butts. tons of shoulder bumps and hip checks.

posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 11:31 PM
reply to post by BASSPLYR

first, i love the way we worked it out. awesome. i love to compare notes.

i see what youre saying. there are tons of people that have adapted their techniques because of injury. for me at this time though, i have several issues. after the amputation i developed something called crps. its a 'disease' of sorts. my nervous system is messed up.
the pain in my hand and arm is unbearable and it is never going to go away. i have like 145lbs grip in my right hand and something like 15lbs in my left. there is just nothing there.
its extreme pain all the time and it is not always the hand. i take morphine twice a day and i take other stuff as well. its all prescribed and i take it the correct way. im just in bad shape.

honestly i dont need to be on the mat grappling anymore. the desire to put myself through that is not there. thats why i am thinking about tai chi.
even if i was 100% i dont have anyone to roll with unless my brothers come to town.
with tai chi its something i can do myself. i can work at my own pace and work through the forms and positions. i dont need to worry about racking my hand while i am rolling with someone. no takedowns and arm bars.
those days are over for me.
i do miss it though.

i have no business doing that to my body anymore.
i will work through my tai chi forms. when spring time hits i can go in the back yard, under the trees, in the sun and frresh air an work through it ad i believe it will help me mentally and just make me feel better in general.
however, my daughter is 15(i thought 14) months old now. we mess around now and it is so much fun. i scoop her up and tumble on the floor with her. she climbs all over me and drools in my face. she is so adorable. i think she is going to take a serious interest but i could be wrong.
i scoop her up and roll around with her. she likes to climb on me while i lay on my back. she climbs on me and sits high up on my chest or on my throat. so her butt is on my throat and she is facing me and she is rocking me in the face making all kinds of goofy noises. she loves it and so do i.
back on track, when she turns 2 years old next year her catch wrestling training starts. we will continue to roll around on the floor to just have fun and mess around but little by little i will start to teach her, using mommy as my example/training partner. i will start to teach her the proper ways to do things. starting small with ways to grab and just continue it from there.
i did this with my son but he lost interest. when he was 5 years old he was putting text book arm bars on his mother using proper technique. in the end it wasnt for him so we stopped.
i will try it with my baby girl though. when she is 5 years old i want her to be able to ankle pick her mom(with help from mom allowing it to happen due to size/strength) and wind up in proper position for a key lock or whatever.
her training will end when she decides she does not want to do it.
everything i know is going to go to her and if she is into it, hopefully it will keep her focused, keep her out of trouble, keep her wanting to learn and like i said, maybe she will be taking on ronda rouseys daughter for the title. maybe gina carano's daughter or maybe rickson gracies grand daughter with have to face off against my baby.

i have plenty of years to work this out but i am already starting to think about the correct thing for me to do if she tells me she wants to join the wrestling team in high school.
i am all for integrated wrestling programs but i dont know how i feel about it when it is MY daughter.
i never had to wrestle a girl but my brother did.
some guys/boys get stupid about that stuff.

sometimes they 'go easy' on them because they are a girl and they dont want to 'hurt' them or 'beat' them too bad. i wouldnt want that. i would want my girl to have a real match.
on the flip side sometimes they go out of their way to cause damage. they TRY to 'hurt' them or 'beat' them. they do things to the upper chest that they shouldnt oor when they are rolling around, they do things with their hand on the girls area 'down south' that they shouldnt do.
i dont know why. maybe because all boys are not secure and confident in themselves so when it comes time to face off against a girl they do stupid things like that.
so, believe me i am already thinking about that because it happens.
i wouldnt be able to take it if some boy went out of his way to hurt her or 'grab' her in that way.. im talking about in a bad way and on purpose. i wouldnt be able to deal with it.
i am pretty emotionless when it comes to people. i am very apathetic when it comes to people but not when it comes to my wife, my son, and my daughter.
especially when it comes to my daughter.
i mean she is my baby girl....
so, i know i am rambling again. just trying to let you know why i wont grapple with my injury and what my plans are because i will never fully quit martial arts.

my plan is to take my daughter to the top. i want her to be in 'the books' as the sickest female fighter/grappler ever. i want her to be looked at as the sickest grappler ever.
i want her name to bee mentioned alongside kazushi sakuraba, rickson gracie, and billy robiinson.

thats my grand plan but it is all going to revolve around what she wants.
either way though, she will know how to defend herself and how to get out of situations.
especially the 'bad situation' that boys sometimes put girls in.
if it is tried on my baby girl it is going to be a mistake. i promise you that

posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 11:35 PM

in the end i love it all. my amputation has developed into a different monster all together. i am going to have problems for life. i am seriously considering taking up tai chi.
i think it will be good for my physical and mental health. i think working through the forms and such would be good for me.
it has nothing to do with fighting for me at this point. strictly mental health.

Do it man, If that is your intention. It's been nothing short of amazing for me so far. If you have the patience and are serious, you will need to find a good teacher. That will be the hardest part of the whole journey. I don't imagine there are many out there. If you are into esoteric or eastern philosophy it is the complete package, if not, at the very least its a good way to keep supple.

Edit: the drunken master movies, awesome! There is a truth to it, at least i think so. Obviously its all for flash and show, but there is a philosophy and attitude to the drunken style that I really like. This may sound stupid, but I reckon Jackie Chan could kick a lot of ass. He may not be UFC champion material, but he's pretty damn flexible and quick witted, I wouldn't have bet against him in his prime. I know its the age old debate, kung fu movies stars aren't real fighters etc, but the man did some crazy stunts and is clearly talented. The same goes for Bruce Lee and that age old debate about whether he was a real fighter or not. There is little evidence to show he was, but the man was clearly at the peak of physical condition, fast as lightning, strong and highly intelligent. We'll never know for sure, but I believe he would have been top of his division in the UFC today if he had of been born in a different time

the Yip man movies too are pretty awesome...
edit on 2-12-2013 by Tasmanaut because: (no reason given)

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