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End this media-promoted, "kung-fu" madness!

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posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 03:39 PM
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this is all i could find.
its a pretty good breakdown of sakurabas catch during the fight

www.youtube.com...

edit
i just watched it again. newton was in trouble from the start. great fight
edit on 2-12-2013 by CardiffGiant because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 03:40 PM
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Martial Arts,just like guns is very dangerous depending on the person.The fact that it is such a dangerous world justifies some training.Someone willing to shoot and kill another wouldn't hesitate to use martial arts for the same reason.People don't kill people.Sick animals that walk on two legs do...



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by CardiffGiant
 


Ah, I'm sorry to hear about your injuries Cardiff. I know it's not the same, but my father's physical situation changed in his early 60s when he had a stroke. Difficult to adjust to new conditions, but I'm sure your knowledge of martial arts and ability to pass it on to your daughter will be a great motivator.

Yeah, we'll amicably disagree. I would probably argue that a number of the guys you mention (Fedor, Randy etc.) relied as much on their standup as on their ground game. I think specialists (like Anderson Silva on the one hand or Big Nog on the other) probably exist in about equal numbers. And, as you said, everyone (myself included) cross trains now. I think we probably agree on more than we disagree -- certainly standup and ground are both important.



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 03:50 PM
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EmperorFaustus
reply to post by CardiffGiant
 


Ah, I'm sorry to hear about your injuries Cardiff. I know it's not the same, but my father's physical situation changed in his early 60s when he had a stroke. Difficult to adjust to new conditions, but I'm sure your knowledge of martial arts and ability to pass it on to your daughter will be a great motivator.

Yeah, we'll amicably disagree. I would probably argue that a number of the guys you mention (Fedor, Randy etc.) relied as much on their standup as on their ground game. I think specialists (like Anderson Silva on the one hand or Big Nog on the other) probably exist in about equal numbers. And, as you said, everyone (myself included) cross trains now. I think we probably agree on more than we disagree -- certainly standup and ground are both important.



you might be right about fedor.
he could and did knock people out.

i think youre correct too. we agree on more.

honestly though, i do wish i was a high rank in hung gar. i honestly do.
my boys wong fei hung and wong kye ying for the dude when it came to hung gar.
i would love to be able to pass that on.



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 04:41 PM
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reply to post by CardiffGiant
 


Well, you are entitled to your opinion. But just for fun, I'll share mine with you


You're totally right that there is a dearth of Kung Fu guys in MMA. But, I don't think that's because Kung Fu is inherently inferior (as a fighting art) to arts like Muay Thai, BJJ, Judo, Boxing, Kickboxing and Wrestling. It's because MMA hasn't caught on as quickly in China.

Kung Fu has it's own combat sports: Sanshou is a Chinese kickboxing ruleset under which Kung Fu guys compete, and it has given birth to San Da, a modern form of Kung Fu. Shuai Jiao is a type of fast wrestling that is both it's own style and a ruleset under which Taiji and other grappling oriented styles of Kung Fu compete.

Kung Fu already has a small presence in the UFC: Cung Le, K.J Noons, Pat Barry and Zhang Tiequan all have a base in Kung Fu (in the same way that Anderson Silva has a base in Muay Thai). Admittedly, none of those guys are really top tier, but they've had decent careers. With a Chinese edition of TUF coming up (Zhang is one of the coaches) I expect Kung Fu fighters to begin coming forward and trying to enter UFC. There are guys out there who train techniques like these, which I think could transition well into MMA, if performed by top level athletes and supplemented with a ground game:

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

So, my prediction is that over the next 5 years we'll see an emergence of Kung Fu into MMA. I guess we'll have to wait and see which one of us is correct.

Nice Sakuraba vid by the way, I've always loved to watch him fight.

And yeah, Hung Ga is cool, it's forms look good and it keeps the body strong and flexible. I have to admit that I don't have much experience with it though. Oh, BTW, some Kung Fu guys fight stylists from other arts! I did for one.

Honestly, if we had any Catch down here, I'd give it a go. I actually prefer it to most other grappling sports I've seen (although I do have a soft spot for Judo).



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 04:55 PM
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reply to post by CardiffGiant
 


Thanks for that, it was a great fight. I found a better quality version here www.dailymotion.com...



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 04:58 PM
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reply to post by EmperorFaustus
 




You're totally right that there is a dearth of Kung Fu guys in MMA. But, I don't think that's because Kung Fu is inherently inferior (as a fighting art) to arts like Muay Thai, BJJ, Judo, Boxing, Kickboxing and Wrestling. It's because MMA hasn't caught on as quickly in China.


MMA fighters study the martial arts that are the most effective and some of the better fighters use many different disciplines. I think it speaks volumes that the majority of MMA fighters just look to Muay Thai, BJJ, Judo, Boxing, Kickboxing and Wrestling and not Kung Fu.

Lots of people i know rate Hung Ga as one of the better styles of kung-fu.



edit on 2-12-2013 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 05:58 PM
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i think youre wrong about why you dont see much of it in mma.
that said, i am very interested in the chinese edition of the show.

does it say who the fighters are yet?
i would suspect most of the fighters will have a strong wrestling base to the tune of guys like rumina sato and takanori gomi.
freestyle wrestling is a huge deal over there. i definately want to watch it though.

glad youre interested in catch.
like i said, it is generally more aggresssive than other forms of grappling. bjj puts more emphasis on the bottom where catch puts more on op.

jump on youtube and try to find some erik paulson instructionals. he has some crazy techniques



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 06:04 PM
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reply to post by PhoenixOD
 


i think it speaks volumes as well.
its not like the ufc is the only promotion for top level fights either.
what about shooto, pride, k-1, dream, etc?
they are not around for years but they were the stuff for a long time.
know what? no kung fu presence over there in japan either.

had western, brazilian, and russian, russian etc styles represented but i dont remember any kung fu.
i think in one of the early ufc's there was a guy that represented ninjitsu. he had on black pants and shirt and when the match started he did a front flip before he engaged. he was fighting pat smith, a kick boxer and he got beat down. it was fast and brutal and ninjitsu did not have a good day.

edit
the guys name was scott morris. pat smith knocked him out in under a minute
edit on 2-12-2013 by CardiffGiant because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 06:25 PM
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im trying to find info on chinese martial arts. recent stuff.
even this does not show a kung fu presence and its a chinese based mma promotion

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 06:40 PM
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what do you think of nick diaz?

www.youtube.com...

he's not the kind of fighter i usually get into. he is very rough around the edges. runs his mouth. in the end i have a soft spot for him. he was just a normal kid on hard times when he started training bjj.
just a dude from stockton you know.
both he and his brother nate ruin guys in the ring/cage.
they have a lot of attitude but i like them both.



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 08:19 PM
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reply to post by CardiffGiant
 


Hey that post your referring to was intended to be sarcastic and funny. Re read it but with that perspective, might make you laugh.



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 08:26 PM
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reply to post by CardiffGiant
 


It doable from the clinch but youre right. What I should have said if I wasn't responding in haste was that it's possible from the clinch but MMA guys havent learned it that way. they aren't even thinking in that direction. Going for the technique the way I would do it from the clinch would either get me eliminated immediately or I'd have to follow MMA rules and not use the technique and then get decimated by some guy who's trained to fight using only MMA rules.

I should have gone into how to do it from a flanked position. My previous explanations would have made more sense then.

There are lots of ways to break a neck or cause severe spinal compression injuries from outside the gate. I'm sure if you used your imagination you'd see some of the possibilities.



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 08:38 PM
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reply to post by CardiffGiant
 


I see where you are going with this. Ground fighting has it's place. It's not superior though. I agree that it is a better choice for certain people and in certain situations. But to say that 99% of all fights go there. thats too much mma and not enough talking to bouncers, bailiffs and other assorted folk. 99% of fights end there when the rules forbid things like gee i don't know punching to the back of the head, neck, dropping an elbow into same said places. sprawling with an elbow onto some dudes neck attempting a take down. Youre telling me none of this works in a confrontation. If it were it would be in MMA. Guess most of the fighting forces of the world train to handle takedowns by doing just that because they're ignorant, misguided, its never worked reliably in the past...guess they never fought a BJJ player to know any better.

Change the rules of an MMA fight to reflect reality and the fights would look a whole lot different. And don't give me this "but back in the very first UFC" BS. Anyone going into the ring is training for that and not for combatives period, they aren't even trained the same. You were not seeing combatives, you weree seeing mediocre classical martial artists who were misguided getting beat up by meat heads who are equally misguided but in better shape.



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 08:42 PM
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CardiffGiant
i just watched the push hand video.
seems explosive.
why do they stop with that though?
makes no sense



It's just an exercise I guess. The opponent has been toppled is is no longer a threat, but from there it could be taken further... It's an etiquette thing I figure



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 08:51 PM
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reply to post by CardiffGiant
 


Gotta agree with you. Catch as catch can and shoot fighting are excellent. But it's good to get proficient at both grappling and striking. heres my question. WHy focus so much on grappling that makes both of you end up on the ground. Wouldn't it be a whole lot smarter to flank the guy using basic boxing footwork, go into a sambut or some dumog and throw the guy to the ground then stomp face. WHy on earth would you go to the ground with him? WHy on earth would you mount him? Thats stupid on so many levels. Wanna know grappling that won't get you killed. Judo throw...face stomp. Thats it. why would you go to the ground. I know cause the other guy did a double leg takedown. It always ends up with a double leg takedown and then a mount. I get it. But what about all the other times that doesn't happen. Judo throw...head stomp. Not judo throw, or two legged takedown roll around on the ground until someone else head stomps you. But all fights end up with a double leg takedown and a mount!!!! none of mine did, and I've been fights so bad that I had to get reconstructive surgery on my left eye socket from being pile driven left eye first into the sidewalk. I was blind out of my left eye for 4 weeks. So you're not alone in the dabbled in a few fights thing. I wasnt taken to the ground and mounted. I was slammed to the ground and stomped. Trust me thats how it goes down.



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 08:55 PM
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reply to post by Tasmanaut
 


I'm with you right here though. No digs in this post. I too d o not subscibe to if guy does this then I do X, Y, Z. That is crap and anyone training like that will freeze, get clobberd, and then wonder why his martial arts didn't help him.

TO me fighting is about principles and concepts. Harness those, really understand them, explore where you can go with them, find a martial art/s (cross training is cool too) that reflects those well and stick with it.



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 08:58 PM
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reply to post by BASSPLYR
 


I tend to agree with you, especially when not in an MMA/UFC match situation. Trying to roll around on hard ground could be dangerous for you even if you are excellent at it. I'd rather be on my feet, his buddies are coming at you most likely and you need to be able to respond. I think it's good to have some idea of what you are doing should you be taken down and mounted, some form of escape or defense, but I'll be trying to get right back up. I don't think a thug is going to know how to put you in a submission arm bar either...

I love how this thread has been hijacked and turned from something ridiculous into an interesting discussion. OP=TKO!
edit on 2-12-2013 by Tasmanaut because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 09:01 PM
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reply to post by CardiffGiant
 


Horse stance...yeah... I agree with you to a point about it. The way most chinese martial arts practice it it is only good for leg conditioning, learning how to sink your center of gravity, etc...The whole standing squared off to your opponent and executing a horse stance is wrong and it indicates that the "shifu" doesn't really know much about it's application other than for ji beng gong (Conditioning)

But many martial arts use the horse stance for takedowns. Many also use it offensively to invade an opponents space, drop deep and deliver a penetrating strike like a rotor parry into a elbow spike. Try a horse stance from a flanked position with a elbow drop or forearm across the opponents body and see what happens. The guy falls right onto the ground...hard...no throws...no sweeps....no locking....no grappling. just flank and strike. it's a leverage and disrupting your opponents base thing. Sounds simple....so simple that an MMA guy would have already figured it out. But nope. Maybe they have but since it doesn't work in the MMA it wont work in the real world. Just like elbows to the neck and back of the head. They don't work either.



posted on Dec, 2 2013 @ 09:04 PM
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reply to post by BASSPLYR
 


The UFC rules against certain strikes really do make THAT much difference, I believe anyway. These could be killing moves though, I see why the rules have been implemented...



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