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End this media-promoted, "kung-fu" madness!

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posted on Nov, 4 2013 @ 08:46 AM
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swanne

boncho
reply to post by BASSPLYR

Man I'm with you on this one op. I too do martial arts. In my case Kali/ silat. Sometimes I have to sit down in the middle if training and repeat mantras to prevent my self from...

 


D e a r …. g… o… d…

cannot

stop

laughing

Hurts to breath.



That was brilliant sir.
edit on 4-11-2013 by boncho because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-11-2013 by boncho because: (no reason given)


Obviously you never trained to know what it is like.

We actually know what it is like. BASSPLYR's description of the training is coherent with my own experience.



I am pretty sure BASSPLYR was being sarcastic.

And if you are being serious, I pity you. If someone put you in a class and told you, you are about to become a "mystical killer" than not only were you lied to, but you got ripped off. I would ask for my money back.

Maybe some idiot teachers out there actually talk like that, but it's probably because their target demographic are morons that hear that stuff and think it's cool, I would also bet they have no clue what they are talking about.

Ask them to take on a local fight, see how they do…




posted on Nov, 4 2013 @ 08:47 AM
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swanne

boncho
What the media needs to do about martial arts is properly educate people like yourself. That's about it…

I doubt Fox news or any other big media is a proper source for education...

I already studied martial "art". that's why I made the thread.


Oh do tell, we are all interested.

What did you study and how many people have you killed since?




posted on Nov, 4 2013 @ 08:49 AM
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boncho
Ask them to take on a local fight, see how they do…


Hey, not arguing with you, mate! Thinking the same thing.


boncho
What did you study and how many people have you killed since?



Studied: Kung fu, and kills: 0.

Harmed... a few people though (to which I later apologized). Including dear ones. Not harmed them badly, but enough to make me realize that morality was missing in many martial-art trainings. To realize it's not romantic -it's a weapon, one which is rapidly gaining popularity in an irresponsible society of egos.

A weapon which has its root in a warfare "art" developed centuries ago to fight armed forces.


edit on 4-11-2013 by swanne because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2013 @ 08:53 AM
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Hummm not me! I wish every 100 pound woman knew the exploding heart technique or was able to handle herself like in Kill Bill. If they don't have time to become proficient with swords, clubs, knives, pistols, rifles and WMD against a group of hairy legged guys who want to rape pillage or plunder then I guess they can grin and bare it....Or talk nicely? Utopia only exists in some metaphysical realm; just open a news paper or watch the news if you believe I am wrong.



posted on Nov, 4 2013 @ 08:54 AM
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reply to post by boncho
 


Although I generally agree with your post on a superficial level. I too feel that with the way Kung Fu is trained and thought about is backwards and turns the student into a ineffective combatant. TO me the reason being that over the generations (especially after 1920) the Kung Fu instructors lost the concepts and principals behind the movements in their forms, and with that the fundamental truths to fighting. Once this was gone it was a downhill slope with each generation loosing more of the "how to" or "Applicative understanding and practice" aspect of their arts, thus turning them into the largely useless although beautiful arts you see today.

There are some arts in kung fu that have managed to not get too watered down over time although they still have become dilluted. Baji, Lung ying, Bak mei, jook lum, southern mantis. Certain southern family systems. Mostley arts related to the hakka peoples.

But a trained eye can look at any martial art around the world from tae kwon do to some exotic african art and see the fundamentals in their forms and movements that are true bread and butter fighting techniques used for thousands of years by all humans that knew how to fight. (its all universal in the end). Although I am certain the shaolin monks practtice their art incorrectly from a combative point of view. I can still break down forms of theirs from lohan chuan, Da hong, xiao hong, qi xing , pao chaun etc and break down the lethal techniques, the fight within the form so to speak, of each and every movement. Anyone with enough knowledge can do this with each and every martial art out there and see that they originally had true martial merit beck when they were conceived. It's just that the students, largely due to their instructors, are ignorant.

Now as far as all martial arts being originally only about disarming and pacifying and not killing is 100% wrong. Nearly all martial arts come from the perspective of combat and warfare and were originally intended to be killing arts.

Hands are very efficient at killing people. For instance its very easy to beak someone else's neck in an altercation. I wont go into detail on how to do it. But it uses very simple principals and is actually quite easy to set up and doesn't require someone built like a gorilla to do it. And once the basics are understood anyone can endlessly modify how they do it to meet their individual needs and preferences. Humans bare handed can be quite efficient and deadly. Take a look at south east asian martial arts for some more obvious examples on how the human body can be surprisingly deadly.



posted on Nov, 4 2013 @ 09:07 AM
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reply to post by swanne
 





It is not unrealistic to realize that as more bullies learn martial "arts", more innocent people will be victims of bullying.


Like anything. Martial Arts is just a tool.
You want to stop people getting hurt.
Get rid of the bullies.

In this country we glamorize violence. But god forbid a woman should breast feed and everyone loses their minds.

The problem we have here in this country is the people. Not the guns.



posted on Nov, 4 2013 @ 09:07 AM
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reply to post by BASSPLYR

Now as far as all martial arts being originally only about disarming and pacifying and not killing is 100% wrong. Nearly all martial arts come from the perspective of combat and warfare and were originally intended to be killing arts.

 


I agree with that to an extant, yet it is a terribly inefficient way of killing someone as I mentioned previously. Now if you are to say martial arts with weapons, like I mentioned wushu before, and you can include kenjutsu and silat as well (which looking back you study), sure, those are intended on killing an opponent. Used in warfare in the days of old.

Hand to hand combat is defensive in nature though, even israeli krav maga and russian samba and systema, which focus on disarming, creating space, hitting points that subdue the person they are fighting. All used in military but only in the case they lose their weapons. Hence the "defence" part. There is no arguing this point.

If you can show a martial art that only uses the hands, which main focus is to kill, you need to reference it, because I don't think it exists. Even the deadliest (which I listed most of them) are still considered defensive in nature.

Yes any time you incapacitate someone you can slit their throat, choke them to the point of asphyxiation, It's not necessary to slit someone's throat to incapacitate them.

Your opinion is appreciated, even if we have to agree to disagree.

As far as breaking necks goes, the c2 vertebrae needs about 900-1500N to break a neck.


Antero-posterior shear force ranges from 840 to 1220 N was required to cause fracture across the pars interarticularis under restraint condition 1. Failure load of between 900 and 1500 N was found to cause odontoid fracture under restraint condition 2


*

The neck is surprising flexible ( for good reason ) plus you face resistance. If you have ever broken the necks of animals you know exactly what I am talking about.

If you have broken human necks, I wouldn't imagine you would talk about it, and keep that in mind when someone tells you they are experienced neck breakers. You would just as easily choke someone to the point of asphyxiation.
edit on 4-11-2013 by boncho because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2013 @ 09:14 AM
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reply to post by swanne

Harmed... a few people though (to which I later apologized). Including dear ones. Not harmed them badly, but enough to make me realize that morality was missing in many martial-art trainings. To realize it's not romantic -it's a weapon, one which is rapidly gaining popularity in an irresponsible society of egos.

A weapon which has its root in a warfare "art" developed centuries ago to fight armed forces.

 


It's sounds like you got schooled by one of those self proclaimed "si fus" who learned their trade reading books on king fu. Or watching hollywood movies. Mail order certifications… people who read bruce lees books and thought they were masters.

We had a local guy teaching a type of kung fu like that, but he eventually got called out.

I agree if you go to class with some egotistical ass hat who proclaims themselves a master and has emotional instability problems, then yea, good chance of you making some stupid decisions under their guidance.

However, most instructors I know, if they found out you beat up your friend for no good reason, they would drop you from their classes.

And that's across a variety of styles…
edit on 4-11-2013 by boncho because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-11-2013 by boncho because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2013 @ 09:19 AM
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Personally I think Kung Fu is the most deadly martial art. Mostly due to its stealthyness. I mean Ninjitsu is supposed to be stealthy but is it really? I mean come on. I'm pretty sure the guy standing next to me in line at the supermarket with the black jump suit and hood isn't fiddling with a can of beans under his ninja belt that he's hoping to buy and take home for supper while shouting at me about avenging his kaga bretheren. I'm pretty sure he's there to kick my ass. And thats just the problem with that sort of approach to martial arts. Thats not effective martial arts thats the ignorance I speak of.

Now take a kung fu master. He old, frail, looks like he sells flowers or discount knockoff purses or something. He fiddles with the magazines in the check out stand and drops them, says Ai Yah! grumply bends down to pick them up and blends in with the environment perfectly. then bam!! I drop like a sack of potatoes he runs off with my sacred dagger given to me by my master!! Thats the kind of stuff i'll never see coming. Proof that you shouldn't have to relly on being stronger or faster than your opponent just smarter. But more importantly with my dagger stolen How will I ever get my honor back?

Anyways, have you people seen all these tae kwon do studios popping up everywhere in the country. It's like 30 kids all learning from a young age to be killing machines. It's like a army of mini soldiers in each and every class lining up. kicking over and over again. Somebodys building a secret army of killing machines. The question is who, and can we trust them? I cant answer those questions but I do know that what goes on in those tae kwon do classes looks like indoctrination. I mean they bow to the korean flag for gods sake!!!! And the geniuses behind this cult like martial art, training future foot soldiers for mysterious and neffarious purposes, went strait for the good stuff and got rid of all their punching. Yes thats right they only learn to kick!!!! Rumor is that the grandmaster who created tae kwon do said in an banned interview (people supposedly dies just from reading the article) "To make my art truly effective, I removed all of the punching. I mean I've never heard of anybody getting their ass punched, but EVERYBODY KNOWS SOMEONE WHO HAS GOTTEN THEIR ASS KICKED! So only kicks in my martial art"



posted on Nov, 4 2013 @ 09:19 AM
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grey580
In this country we glamorize violence. But god forbid a woman should breast feed and everyone loses their minds.

The problem we have here in this country is the people. Not the guns.


I wholeheartedly agree.



posted on Nov, 4 2013 @ 09:26 AM
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reply to post by BASSPLYR

Anyways, have you people seen all these tae kwon do studios popping up everywhere in the country. It's like 30 kids all learning from a young age to be killing machines. It's like a army of mini soldiers in each and every class lining up. kicking over and over again. Somebodys building a secret army of killing machines

 


Forget worrying about Tae Kwon Do, when I was a kid my mom enrolled me into the only Judo school in our town. Me an about a dozen other kids. Next thing you know the slip and fall rate in our town jumped 43%. Kids were flying off balconies, playgrounds, decks, pools, terraces. Parents were flying off their roofs.

Eventually they enrolled us into a brainwashing program, or rather a deprogramming program. Helping us curb the urge to toss people off raised surfaces, finally relieving the town of its hideous secret it had been hiding all those years.



posted on Nov, 4 2013 @ 09:35 AM
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reply to post by boncho
 


Not all martial arts have a defensive nature. Look at pekiti tersia. It's a filipeno style of kali. It's trained to alot of the special forces in the world including the US because it focuses on engaging the opponent first, going strait for the most efficient kill in the given situation, and being bloody quick about it. It's defense is usually parrys thrown in after the player has initiated his assault and needs to deflect a feeble counter attack so as to be able to continue the flow of destruction.

Certain types of silat are not defensive. Anything with Pukulan in front of it's name denotes a style or attitude of training where it's better to hit first, pre emptively strike, to crash into and then smother your opponent and destroy anything and everything you can as quickly as you can. Sera is a well know version of this type of silat. It goes in for a set up strike, closes to full body contact does some sort of nasty take down and then delivers a killing blow. The art is designed completely for warfare and hand to hand killing. CImande is another art very similar in tacktics. Although, it's movement are more based around the knife usage. It too was designed explicitly for killing.

An art thats hard to find but is still around and that is ancient is the indian art of shastar vidiya platha. It was pretty much an art expressly for killing.

Muay Boran was the ancient art (still practiced all over thailand to this day) that the siam warriors and soldiers used to fight off their enemies in days past. Mauy Thai is based off of it, but it's parent Mauy Boran was meant to kill and quickly.

CHinese traders had a very deadly system of martial art known as Kun Tau. Was a mix of macao area southern chinese kung fu mixed with kali/silat It's obvious it's pretty lethal and was designed to kill quickly and with the bare hands.

There are martial arts out there that are very leathal, and were intended to.



posted on Nov, 4 2013 @ 09:39 AM
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reply to post by boncho
 


I wouldn't be so sarcastic with BASSPLYR. He knows his stuff, hell, even better than I do. Most of what he says is confirmed by my own studies. I think reading him up will prove to be quite educating, especially regarding the origin of these "arts"... which is warfare.



edit on 4-11-2013 by swanne because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2013 @ 09:42 AM
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Highest of which is obviously brazillian tae nin kwon jitsu. You can tell who those are when they are walking around because they all wear oven mits on their hands so that they don't break everything they touch on accident. If you see somebody while walking down the street dressed like that, for gods sake, do NOT engage with them. Just run.



posted on Nov, 4 2013 @ 09:46 AM
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getting ones opponent to beat himself up is the ultimate
in which case
one should study buggs bunny



posted on Nov, 4 2013 @ 09:47 AM
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reply to post by boncho
 


I find the OP a bit silly. First, let's expand this to all martial arts. Focusing on a small amount of them gets away from the point you are trying to make due to people comparing styles to each other and skipping over the point you are trying to make.

If the study of martial arts increases bullying, then you have an extremely bad martial art instructor. There should be no schools like Cobra Kai, but unfortunately, I've encountered a few over the years. My biggest concern is children learning impractical moves that would actually cause more harm to themselves then to others.

I know for a fact my training has saved lives (or at least, save from serious injury). When some drunk patron at a bar grabs a bottle and swings it at the back of a woman's head who snubbed him, I firmly believe it was my training that prevented that bottle from connecting. One block, one sweep, one light punch to the solar pelxis, and I was able to dissolve the situation with minimal force necessary. That's the key right there - minimal.

Not every move is a killing move, and if that is what your school is focusing on, it isn't very practical, is it? Once again, I would blaim the instructor in this case. It took me a long time to find a dojo I was happy with. It isn't about winning trophies, it isn't about how fast you become a black belt, but unfortunately that is some schools selling points.



posted on Nov, 4 2013 @ 09:51 AM
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Thanks man. Although I tend to write some of the most sophomoric posts this website has ever seen. I'm usually doing it in good fun. Or drunk posting. Cause it's all fun. But in all honesty I love this website and the people who post here. And I'm really not some immature 14 year old kid I swear. I can actually hold down a job.

But in regards to martial arts. I do know alot about them. Been to china, both north and south, been to java and had the good fortune of training with a lot of guys both there and in the states since a kid who really knew what they were doing. Also one learns a lot about martial arts the hard way. Eating bitter. By mouthing off to the wrong person when growing up and getting your ass kicked and learning from the experience and learning to heal wounded pride and ego only to throw both out once back on my feet again. But yeah, I'm always studying from an academic stand point world martial arts. Crap I sounded pretty sophmoric in my posts again. WELL AT LEST IN THIS ONE. Oh well off to work for me. Will check in on my lunch break.

But most of the time I'm an abnoxious troll here at ats.



posted on Nov, 4 2013 @ 09:55 AM
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boncho
Kung Fu is essentially slapping and hair pulling. Yes, highly romanticized in the movies but watch some really old footage from the 50s of kung fu competitions in China and it looks like a bunch of teenage girls trying to rip each others hair out.

Now maybe you could argue Wushu? But then again that is all done with weapons intended to maim or kill the opponent.

In fact, nearly all martial arts done with hand to hand combat are to disable the opponent, not kill them, as killing them is inefficient with the hands.

If you believe otherwise you've watched too much Kill Bill and truly believe the five finger exploding heart technique is real…


You do realize that competitive martial arts is highly neutered in the lethality department for the combatants' safety right? Why don't you look up some underground kickboxing tournaments or heck how about this martial art:

Muay Thai


Muay boran, and therefore muay Thai, was originally called by more generic names such as pahuyuth (from the Sanskrit bahu-yuddha meaning unarmed combat), Toi muay or simply muay. As well as being a practical fighting technique for use in actual warfare, muay became a sport in which the opponents fought in front of spectators who went to watch for entertainment. These muay contests gradually became an integral part of local festivals and celebrations, especially those held at temples. Eventually, the previously bare-fisted fighters started wearing lengths of hemp rope around their hands and forearms. This type of match was called muay khat chueak (มวยคาดเชือก). Kickboxing was also a component of military training and gained prominence during the reign of King Naresuan in 1560 CE.


Emphasis added. I'm sure a fighting style that was developed for warfare can't be compared to "slapping and hair pulling."



posted on Nov, 4 2013 @ 09:56 AM
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BASSPLYR
Crap I sounded pretty sophmoric in my posts again. WELL AT LEST IN THIS ONE.

Uh, I've seen worst, believe me.


Oh well off to work for me.

Same here. I'll log off now to prepare the next writing contest and other things.


edit on 4-11-2013 by swanne because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2013 @ 10:11 AM
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reply to post by boncho
 


Willing to bet they weren't bending the neck at an unnatural angle while applying those pressures to test failure stress loads. Necks are flexible. THey are also very fragile and not so flexible.

Heres an experiment and some food for thought. Stand up. Now tilt your head back so that the neck doesn't have anymore natural free travel. Notice how your spine is now locked. Notice how messed up your center of gravity and balance is. Notice how easy and natural it would be to get into this unfortunate position during a scuffle. Notice how easy and natural it would be to get somebody else in this position. Now imagin being in that same position by somebody who really doesn't like you. They palm your face and tilt your head back like that. Notice how very vulnerable you feel right now with your head like that. Now imagin if other dude with his hands mashed against your face, decides to drop his own legs out from underneath himself so that he just falls to the ground like a rock, all 200 pounds of him. And he's using your face like a lever to snap your head back. Wanna bet you'll be producing much more than 900 whatevers of force.

Not try that same postition but with your head rotated 90% to the side (like your looking hard to the right or left) Imagine how easy it would be to tilt someones head back and then in a scuffle throw your forearm across their faceto turn it to the side, while it's cranked back, and then you decide to buckle your kneed out from underyourself to add 200+ pound of your weight into some hapless cervicle vertibrae. Pretty easy situation to get your self or someone else into. The consequences of which could really suck.

The move is banned since ancient times in wrestling. because it's easy and it BREAKS NECKS.




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