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Lethal weapon: This is the gun that is killing America

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posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 10:53 AM
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EarthCitizen07
reply to post by NavyDoc
 


No I haven't. I guess your point is they are difficult to control? I see plenty of youtube videos with bump-fire ak-47s and bump-fire ar-15s. Look around and you would be suprised. When the shtf these people can be a big menace to the people around them.

They also tend to hoarde ammunition and like to brag about their gun collection.
edit on 5/11/13 by EarthCitizen07 because: (no reason given)


Nothing wrong with larges amounts of ammunition or with a large gun collection. Most guys like that think a case of Wolf and an SKS is a large gun collection. LOL. True collectors and ammo hoarders don't talk about it much.

Bump fire is even more innacurate than a real F/A. A mass shooter would burn out his mag in a second or two and most the rounds would end up in the ceiling. Mass shooters tend not to be military trained or experienced, so the FA is a waste. What is more dangerous and common to all mass shootings, is not "spray and pray" but a meticulous and calm shooting each and every person. Almost every mass shooter in history has been one of deliberate, calm, aimed shots. F/A would probably kill less unless they were all packed together in front of the shooter.




posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 10:55 AM
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EarthCitizen07

NavyDoc

NO, his point is quite relevant. Murders with legally owned NFA weapons have been very rare and thus it is illogical to want them eliminated. Also, I disagree with a FA causing many, many more casualties. If you burn out your mag into the ceiling (unlike in the movies, FA handhelds are not easy to control) you waste much of the rounds.


The only reason mass murder with full auto is rare, is because full auto weapons themselves are rare.

If crazy people had easy access to full auto, then they would certainly use them and the victim rate would be 10 times higher then it is now.

Its a blessing that full autos belong in the military for the most part. Just like hand grenades.


Just wondering, but have you ever fired a full auto or even a 3 round burst rifle??? I have, actually pretty recently as a qualifying requirement in the USAF. An M-4 on 3 rd burst is difficult as hell to control FYI. You purposefully have to aim low and hope that by the time your 3rd round hits you dont go above the target. I've been in the military for 8 years. Including civillian arms, i've used M-16s, AR-15s M-4s, Semi auto shotguns, pump shotguns, bolt action rifles, and many types of pistols. Semi auto is most definitely going to cause MORE damage than a fully auto gun. spraying and praying is not the way to go when shooting. It was said previously in this thread, "One Shot, One Kill" not "30 Shots and Hope For the Best"


The simple fact of the matter is the AR is no more dangerous than any other rifle which shoots .223 ammo. Personally, I love the look of the AR, and the attachment choices are endless. I also like the look of the AK-47 and 74 models, and SKS. What I dont like, is the fact the MSM is portraying an inanimate barbie gun as the one and only mode of slayings



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 10:56 AM
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reply to post by Kukri
 


The prefix stands for armalite rifle.

Has nothing to do with assault rifles.

The m-16 is a militarised version of the ar-15 and shoots the same caliber rounds with full-auto availability.
edit on 5/11/13 by EarthCitizen07 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 11:01 AM
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EarthCitizen07

TKDRL
reply to post by EarthCitizen07


A knife is more deadly up close and personal,


OH HELL NO!!
I tell you what: you get your biggest ,baddest Rambo knife; ill get my glock. We can stand as close as you want. Nose to nose.
Lets see who is right and who is dead. Unless you're a 13th century samurai you don't stand a chance.
Knives are only better close up in call of duty.
edit on 5-11-2013 by riffraff because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-11-2013 by riffraff because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 11:02 AM
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reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


Never had a problem buying rifles or pistols here. Transporting them (pistols) is a different story. I ended up selling my firearms and bows when I moved back to Ontario as I gave up hunting and target shooting was too much trouble. Actually I might get back into bow hunting as the deer here are a pestilence. Don't see the point of owning an AR15 at $1,000 and up they are garbage and useless for anything but what the wackos use them for. I Guess I don't need an assault rifle to feel macho or look cool on my X-mas cardz, that's what my girlfriends are for.



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 11:17 AM
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The most dangerous,
value appreciated
weapon of USA
is the lever
action

For the
avid gun owning American, The anti
automatic rifle laws have a very
significant cut off date.

One that leaves the Winchester
lever action repeating riffle as the
single best remaining non-banned
high rate of fire military weapon
available in the US.



Winchester 1873 in .38

$2,199.99

And it's a very decent resell investment.





Which one of the current monstrosities of
so-called gun laws, are negatively affecting
this nations economy, or potentially have
the forecasted chance to detrimentally hit
the economy, inhibiting production, and
casting aspersion upon the culture instead
of educating the public.













If the pundits want to keep playing
this game, raise the stakes on them.
They lost the last round, and have
yet to admit it. Pushing forward
from a failed position should cost
more.

Perhaps we could defund the dept
of homeland defense and just put
Bazookas on the market. A surface
to air missile in the possession of
the NYFD would have changed the
course of history.

Or the TSA can just admit that
they are here to grab my junk and
not for anyone's safety at all.

Mike



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 11:27 AM
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riffraff

OH HELL NO!!
I tell you what: you get your biggest ,baddest Rambo knife; ill get my glock. We can stand as close as you want. Nose to nose.
Lets see who is right and who is dead. Unless you're a 13th century samurai you don't stand a chance.
Knives are only better close up in call of duty.
edit on 5-11-2013 by riffraff because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-11-2013 by riffraff because: (no reason given)


In theory any gun is better than a knife because the person attacking you is normally dead before they reach close enough to stab you. If the two people were close enough then the person with a knife has the edge, especially if the shooter has a smaller caliber gun. People get shot with .22lr and .25acp quite often and manage to survive. Victims of a knife attack are not that lucky.
edit on 5/11/13 by EarthCitizen07 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 11:33 AM
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reply to post by riffraff
 


There are rifles that shoot 9mm, 40, and 45, but that does not make them handguns. Rifles are typically rifle bored, and require a shoulder stock. There is a pistol grip shotgun, and it is classified as an other. It is possible the SMG you are discussing is considered an other. I however, do not know its classification for the 4473 document.



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 11:36 AM
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reply to post by riffraff
 


There are also handguns that fire 410 shot. The judge and the governor, those handguns are considered handguns in most states here in the US, except California which says it is a shotgun, with an illegal barrel length. Thus the reason why it is important to know your state's laws when handling firearms.

see ya.



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 11:36 AM
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kingofyo1

Semi auto is most definitely going to cause MORE damage than a fully auto gun. spraying and praying is not the way to go when shooting. It was said previously in this thread, "One Shot, One Kill" not "30 Shots and Hope For the Best"


Thats pretty absurd. If full-auto has less potential than semi-auto the military would never bother giving soldiers the option of selection on their rifles.

Sure completly incompetant shooters could miss a lot, but its still a strawman argument in favor of allowing automatic guns to be available to the public.



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 11:40 AM
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reply to post by riffraff
 


Factually speaking, as attested to by people who have fought close quarters, a gun is bugger all use when the action gets too close. The reason for that is simple. A gun has only limited use, outside of being able to shoot a person with it, or pistol whip them, in the case of a glock for instance. However, a knife can be reversed, it can be used to cut, or to pierce, and it can be used to do these things in a variety of angles and directions of approach. A gun however, has to be pointing in the correct direction, toward the target, to be effective, and that is not always the scenario which prevails.

Obviously, if you and someone else go toe to toe, and you already have your gun against their breastbone, then they are good and boned and thats an end to the matter. However, if they manage to get inside your fire arc, then you are doomed man, because a six inch sliver of steel through the trachea and out the back of your neck, will cut open your windpipe, then penetrate your spinal cord, causing immediate death at worst, and at best render you paralyzed. That same blade punched through your neck from side to side will sever both carotid arteries. Sliced across your throat, you loose your jugular, and deflate like a balloon that got too close to a cocktail stick. Used a different way, if you like a two handed grip on your pistol and were not expecting to have to go hand to hand, then you would be too busy holding your gun to get a hand in the way of the blade that quests for your eyesocket, longing to be buried to the hilt and tickle the back of your brain case, and all of that is only assuming you even hear or see the threat coming.

The fact is that with a gun, what you have is a noisy tool, to do a job that should be done as quietly as possible. With a knife, you could, if one had ones head in the game, outflank an opponent, and drive a knife into any desired area of the body without detection, and that doesnt take a samurai. What it does take is a certain mental attitude, that I like to call, being a total bastard, and there are an awful lot more of them about than you may realise! There is a reason that most special forces types are trained how to fillet a person without a sound using a relatively small knife.



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by TrueBrit
 


Still I would rather have a gun over a knife anytime, even a .22lr one. Its much easier to kill someone with rapidfire .22s than to hope to get close enough to stab them. Not everyone is delta force or sas material. Certainly not me....

And you can always put a noise suppresor on the already quiet .22lr pistol making it virtually dead quiet.



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 11:55 AM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


If its so absurd, then ask many different military members what they'd prefer given full auto or semi and any rifleman will tell you that for rifles, semi auto wins hands down any day of the week. I see your reasoning behind the government purchasing fully automatic machine guns, but you're referring to apples and oranges when comparing an M-16 or m-4 with full auto capability (light as hell) and a m240. Its a fact that when running and gunning, if given any real time to shoot, you'd prefer to concentrate and pop off one or two rounds as opposed to spraying a multitude in the general direction of the target. That just wastes rounds. I see no real point in a fully automatic m-16. 3 rd burst for the rare occasion that suppressive fire is necessary is a different story.



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 12:03 PM
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reply to post by kingofyo1
 


Full Auto is rarely used for the simple reason it wastes ammo, nothing else. If a soldier was outnumbered by bad guys instead of tossing a grenade that takes too much time, he would simply "spray and pray" as is commonly said.

In the hand of trained individuals its almost like having a suitcased sized nuke...well exaggerating a bit but you should get my point.



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 12:07 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


OH I definitely agree with the suitcased sized nuke comment, and with the case that if you're in a foxhole without anywhere to go and no grenades, a BAR or m240 would be an amazing asset with insurgents closing in on your location. CQB without backup is a raw deal no matter how you look at it.



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 12:12 PM
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reply to post by kingofyo1
 


If the insurgants are closing in, by the time you pull the pin off the grenade and throw it, the insurgants will have killed you because the grenade will explode behind them after 6 seconds which i think is how long it takes to go boom.

Grenades are good for sneak attacks when no one knows you are there, and then run like hell away before they regroup. Some are bound to live through it and chase you.



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by Stuship
 


Yeah I knew about the Taurus judge .I came very close to getting getting one, but reviewers said its accuracy was iffy. As for the barrel rifling, the barrels in my pistols are rifled as well. But as you and doc gator have pointed out these pistols that shoot 5.56 don't have buttstocks.
As for the SMG thing, I just saw the length of these pistols and commented that they Look more like SMGs than pistols. The overall length was 18+ inches, but the barrels were only 9 inches.
Anyway thank you for taking time to educate a fellow gun lover and truth seeker



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


IIRC you're correct about the 6 second fuse.. But with grenades, you should never count on 6 seconds as being correct
Murphys law at its finest. If you count on 6, its guaranteed to go off in 4 or less. If you need it to be shorter, it'll be longer.. Etc etc.



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 12:31 PM
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reply to post by TrueBrit
 


Yeah, I forgot. We're all navy seals and green berets here with reflexes faster than bullets.
I know what you guys are trying to say. And you are technically correct to a degree assuming you hit an artery. Not every cut is a clean one. And even if you sever the corotid you got ten long seconds before loss of consciousness more than enough time to shoot your attacker to death. These hypotheticals are getting pretty silly .you never bring a knife to a gun fight. Every knows that and anyone who says different is just being argumentative.



posted on Nov, 5 2013 @ 12:48 PM
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TrueBrit
reply to post by riffraff
Used a different way, if you like a two handed grip on your pistol and were not expecting to have to go hand to hand, then you would be too busy holding your gun to get a hand in the way of the blade that quests for your eyesocket, longing to be buried to the hilt and tickle the back of your brain case,


You make it sound so easy to stab through the skull. Your brain is protected on all sides, even the eye sockets aren't hollow. Only a tiny hole is there to allow the optic nerve to communicate to the brain. But still I enjoyed reading your post. You have a passion for writing and a nice vocabulary.



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