Lethal weapon: This is the gun that is killing America

reply to post by F4Driver


I actually blame people who don't read even the first line of the OP, and instead choose to go on a CAPS LOCK TIRADE. That is the kind of impulse control and anger management that makes the "2nd Amendment" movement look sane and well reasoned. Thanks...keep it up!

IT'S designed as a military killing machine

the armalite AR15 WAS NOT designed as a military rifle.

It was first sold to civilians as a all weather hunting and survival rifle. before selling the design rights to colt. colt redesigned a couple small parts and sold the weapon to the military as a survival rifle.
then colt made the weapon full auto as a military combat rifle.

But it started a good 5 years before as the Armalite model 15 hunting and survival rifle. armalite sold a number of these and never sold any to the military as combat rifles only as simi auto survival rifles

its is a downsize verson of the AR10 that is even older and never used by the military.

reply to post by ANNED


the AR10 was used in portugal and Sudan militaries I think the AR 180 was better than the AR15. I prefer 7.62 myself.

Ermahgerd...

www.fbi.gov... 012.xls

Yeah, the evil AR is CLEARLY the villain...

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

No semi-auto weapon should be banned except for short barralled shotguns. As for automatics? Ban them all!

really? how many mass shootings in the u.s. have occurred with fully automatic weapons? two, possibly three. EVER.

the tool doesn't matter, it is the intent that matters. our society and morals are degrading; people have become hateful and selfish. this is the true killer.

Bob Sholtz
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

No semi-auto weapon should be banned except for short barralled shotguns. As for automatics? Ban them all!

really? how many mass shootings in the u.s. have occurred with fully automatic weapons? two, possibly three. EVER.

the tool doesn't matter, it is the intent that matters. our society and morals are degrading; people have become hateful and selfish. this is the true killer.

Your point is irrellevant. If they had automatic weapons the victims would have been many, many times more than with the semi-auto used. Crazy people exist and will use whatever weapon they have in their arsenal. butter knife, machette, hammer, etc.

Machine guns have too much killing potential. This is basic logic everyone should be able to understand.

EarthCitizen07

Bob Sholtz
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

No semi-auto weapon should be banned except for short barralled shotguns. As for automatics? Ban them all!

really? how many mass shootings in the u.s. have occurred with fully automatic weapons? two, possibly three. EVER.

the tool doesn't matter, it is the intent that matters. our society and morals are degrading; people have become hateful and selfish. this is the true killer.

Your point is irrellevant. If they had automatic weapons the victims would have been many, many times more than with the semi-auto used. Crazy people exist and will use whatever weapon they have in their arsenal. butter knife, machette, hammer, etc.

Machine guns have too much killing potential. This is basic logic everyone should be able to understand.

NO, his point is quite relevant. Murders with legally owned NFA weapons have been very rare and thus it is illogical to want them eliminated. Also, I disagree with a FA causing many, many more casualties. If you burn out your mag into the ceiling (unlike in the movies, FA handhelds are not easy to control) you waste much of the rounds.

Doc Gator

riffraff
Anyway my point, and I bet we'll agree on this, is if I could get hit by a round and survive I would much rather get hit with the 5.56. There would be more of me left after I had healed. The 7.62 is more destructive.

I would not agree. I would much rather not be shot by either. But, having seen wounds from both, I would much prefer to be hit by a 7.62x39 (AK47 round) than a 5.56 NATO round. The AK rounds tends to pass through tissue, while the AR rounds tend to fragment. This makes treatment significantly more difficult and raises the lethality level of the round. This is one of the main reasons that the Russians rechambered for the 5.45 round when they introduced the AK74.

There is always a trade off. The 7.62x39 has more "stopping" power, but the 5.56 NATO is significantly more destructive to tissue.

The same can be said of .22lr and .25acp pistol rounds. They are very low on stopping potential, unless you make a lucky hit, but cleaning up the wounds are tough. The bullets tumble and break up inside the body.

NavyDoc

NO, his point is quite relevant. Murders with legally owned NFA weapons have been very rare and thus it is illogical to want them eliminated. Also, I disagree with a FA causing many, many more casualties. If you burn out your mag into the ceiling (unlike in the movies, FA handhelds are not easy to control) you waste much of the rounds.

The only reason mass murder with full auto is rare, is because full auto weapons themselves are rare.

If crazy people had easy access to full auto, then they would certainly use them and the victim rate would be 10 times higher then it is now.

Its a blessing that full autos belong in the military for the most part. Just like hand grenades.

My god!!

Used in fewer than 2% of crimes.

Used to kill 323 people last year.

The horror....the horror....

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


They are also hot, don't bleed as much as a knife wound. A nice fluid motion with my knife, victim is dead plain and simple. Multiple arteries and vessels will be severed. No coming back from that. People survive being shot in the abdomen all the time.

AlphaHawk

IT'S designed as a military killing machine and instead it's doing its job slaughtering the innocent in shopping malls, schools and cinemas across America.

The gun that's killing America is a lightweight, easy to handle assault rifle that has become a lethal weapon in the hands of losers, misfits and people with a grudge.
Gun enthusiasts call it the "iPhone" of gun shops.

Lethal weapon: This is the gun that is killing America

Oh boy.

Boy oh boy oh boy, so this 'story' is doing the rounds on Australian news sites at the moment, well on Newscorp sites at least.

I haven't read it yet, but the snippet above is already full of fallacies, such as calling the AR an assault rifle.

So the gun debate continues it seems, here in Australia the article will be preaching to the already converted, as most Australians fear guns, rather than respect and understand them.

It's infuriating to read such tripe, (I'm not surprised though, it is a newscrap story) because anyone could go find motor vehicle death statistics and compare with gun deaths and see that more people die from cars than guns, yet here we are, fearing guns.

Yes, there are psychos out there, and if it wasn't an AR, it would be something else..the weapon doth make a man a murderer.

edit on 4-11-2013 by AlphaHawk because: (no reason given)

Guns don't kill people. People do.

TKDRL
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

They are also hot, don't bleed as much as a knife wound. A nice fluid motion with my knife, victim is dead plain and simple. Multiple arteries and vessels will be severed. No coming back from that. People survive being shot in the abdomen all the time.

A knife is more deadly up close and personal, but you only kill the person you intend to harm and everyone else remains intact. A gun has more killing potential, and a full auto weapon ten fold that.

Stopping a crazy person from killing 50 people with a semi-auto is much easier than stopping a crazy person with a full auto. There is a much greater window of opportunity available. Full auto spits 5 to 10 bullets per second versus 1-2 per second with semi-auto. Someone is bound to whip out their pistol and shoot the crazy person, or at the very least people have a chance to run away. With full auto everyone is dead within a few seconds.

Having read the article and the posts the following can be stated:

The article is full of BS and ultimately misinformation on the part of the Australian newspaper. In their view, it is the military style weapons that most criminals use. Yet, if one was to do a bit of research, and look at the actual statistics then this is what the truth of the matter of gun violence is.

It is not the rifle, shotgun or the military hardware that is being used to do the most harm in the US when it comes to gun violence, but rather it is the handgun. The reality is that there are more shooting deaths and homicides due to the use of a handgun than all others combined, and the numbers are staggering.

Many people keep touting and proclaiming the point to ban firearms get rid of them, like that will stop the madness and violence in the USA, yet fail to take into account several points. The first point is that a criminal does not follow the law. A criminal break the law, and commits crime. And they do not care what the law says. The break the law, and the feign shock when caught, and the public reacts.

2) Restricting or prohibiting firearms will not work. If you punish the whole for what a few does never works. History is loaded with that fact. You cannot legislate good behavior. You can advise, you can reward good behavior, but to say don’t do this and most psychologist will tell you that a percentage of the population will do the exact opposite of such. Far too often when there is a mass shooting, the first thing that comes out is ban the gun arguments, we should take away rights, and protect everyone. Those who use such often use such casualties as an excuse to further their political careers.

3) They dance around the issues, never really finding out why or what the real problem is. Instead of taking and looking at the issues that caused the problems they ignore such. One of the problem is that jails or the threat of jail is no longer a threat or hold fear in the hearts of people. If you tell a person that they are going to jail, most tend to blow it off and move on with their life.

4) If a person wants to kill another, there is not one thing that the authorities can do to stop it. They will use anything and everything at their disposal to commit the crime. In the past if you look at serial killers and other mass murders in the USA, they did not use firearms or guns to do such, they did such as not to attract attention, leaving a string of bodies and grieving survivors in their wake. People like John Gacy, Jeffery Dohmner, and Ted Bundy, all did not use a gun to kill, they did it with their bare hands.
And finally if you think that the numbers can be scary think on this: In 2010 there were 358 people killed with a rifle. However if you also look at the statistics at they are collected and presented, what about the 4251 people who were killed in the US. But those were not shot in any way, those are all of the people who died by other means, that were not firearm related. So there you have it, 358 people shot with a rifle, versus 4251 people killed by non firearms.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


Most untrained people ,as previously stated, cannot control autos on their first try.Most of the crazies have just acquired the gun and havent shot it.The class 3 community would very easily know who shoots what if the crazie tried to practice.A trained shooter could do FAR more damage with a semi auto.
But we don't because we are sane.

reply to post by AlphaHawk


You really have to wonder what people are thinking when they talk like these guns have a mind of there own...truth is there not thinking or they would be after the nutjobs that use the guns.

Actually the anti gun people should be glad the gun does not have a mind of its own, then it would make sense why they want them gone.

reply to post by cavtrooper7




I wouldnt want some crazy wannabe stallone going on a rampage...

Oh the horror?

EarthCitizen07

TKDRL
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

They are also hot, don't bleed as much as a knife wound. A nice fluid motion with my knife, victim is dead plain and simple. Multiple arteries and vessels will be severed. No coming back from that. People survive being shot in the abdomen all the time.

A knife is more deadly up close and personal, but you only kill the person you intend to harm and everyone else remains intact. A gun has more killing potential, and a full auto weapon ten fold that.

Stopping a crazy person from killing 50 people with a semi-auto is much easier than stopping a crazy person with a full auto. There is a much greater window of opportunity available. Full auto spits 5 to 10 bullets per second versus 1-2 per second with semi-auto. Someone is bound to whip out their pistol and shoot the crazy person, or at the very least people have a chance to run away. With full auto everyone is dead within a few seconds.

With all due respect, you obviously have not any experience with FA firearms have you?

reply to post by NavyDoc


No I haven't. I guess your point is they are difficult to control? I see plenty of youtube videos with bump-fire ak-47s and bump-fire ar-15s. Look around and you would be suprised. When the shtf these people can be a big menace to the people around them.

They also tend to hoarde ammunition and like to brag about their gun collection.

reply to post by AlphaHawk


Ah! The great debate! So a weapon, and it is a weapon, called the AR15 is not an assault rifle. A weapon with the prefix AR (Assault Rifle) by the very companies that manufacture it isn't in fact an AR but what? A HR (Hunting Rifle) or TR (Target Rifle)? I don't care either way but this argument is beyond the pale as any infantry rifle that was and is designed for combat is in fact either an assault rifle, an LMG/SAW or a sniper rifle. I'd argue the fine points of where I know this is going but it would be pointless.