Comet Ison 'Looking Odd'

*wonders why that just happened above*
Oops

mobtek
As much as I don't agree with the electric universe model I sometimes wonder if they might have something concerning comets.

edit on 3-11-2013 by mobtek because: speling gude

Just had my first viewing of a portion of 'The Electric Comet' by Thunderbolts. Did some searching and found a plethora of educated discussion and argument here about the subject. I barely have enough information to form what could even be considered an uneducated/misguided opinion, but for what it's worth (about 2 cents I suppose), I'm intrigued by the theory at least as it pertains to comets.
Just watching and reading, I'll leave the discussion and even the conjecture to those who are better armed to do so.

ETA: OK, can I conjecture just a little? My first impression in looking at the photos of ISON and it's green coma reminded me of my days in the sheet metal trade. When you weld galvanized sheet metal, greenish-yellow Zinc-Oxide gas is given off. The pictures of the comet instantly reminded me of something I've seen through the welding hood many times before. I know, Cyanogen and diatomic Carbon. The question is, could it be formed by electrostatic discharge?

reply to post by JayinAR


no, it won't. i had this discussion with Phage on another thread not so long ago, but i was wrong back then. simply, you don't understand the math behind this.

think about it this way: when a celestial body (with huge mass) has no atmosphere, an object will fall on that body's surface with the same speed, acceleration and path, regardless if it's 1kg (or 1000000kg) of steel or jellybean. the only difference (visible here on earth for example) is caused by the atmosphere.

think about it as a free fall. ISON's mass is too small compared to sun's, so it is ISON that 'falls' on the sun, not the other way around. and in that case, only sun's mass matters - and ISON's current vector (direction and speed).

wildespace
reply to post by rickymouse

 

The orbit of comets, planets, or asteroids around the Sun doesn't depend on their density or mass. It only depends on the distance from the Sun at any point:
boards.straightdope.com...
answers.yahoo.com...

Celestial mechanics have been in use for hundreds of years, and are precise enough for us to land a probe on a small comet or asteroid zooming millions of miles away at thousands of miles per hour.

The orbit is calculated by observing where the object is at several points in time, then extrapolating its orbit from those positions using the aforementioned equations. The more positions you have, the more precise the orbit is. Nothing to do with the object's composition or density.

By the way, even if ISON's density means it will break up into pieces, those pieces will continue on the same trajectory, only very slowly (extremely slowly in cosmic terms) drifting apart.

edit on 3-11-2013 by wildespace because: (no reason given)

Well... It's still the 1st time ISON passes by our sun, so I can't believe its subsequent trajectory is known, very well at all. AFAIK it's going to orbit closely to the sun, and then get flung on a new course... and how its course goes from there, is probably anyone's guess I'd say.

As for the make-up of ISON being irrelevant, that is really hard to believe. It must be relevant AT LEAST when anticipating how it will react to the sun's heat and energy that it will be flying through... I'd think its course could certainly change depending on how much of the object burns away and disappears, right? Wouldn't that possibly affect its course after that, and how its course changes when it gets thrown away from the sun?

reply to post by peacefulpete


no. that's the tricky part.
regardless if it'll stay untouched or 90% will burn out or it'll break apart into 100 pieces, the orbit won't change.

daryllyn
"OMG! NASA WOULD NEVER TELL US IF A (insert space object here) WAS COMING TO KILL US! NEVER A STRAIGHT ANSWER!"

Maybe they wouldn't... BUT... the thousands of sky-watchers around the world would. As soon as it was confirmed and cross referenced, we would know about it.

Yeah right...Just like the Russian meteorite....

In fact the Russian visitor proved that, the thousands of sky-watchers around the world CAN'T watch everything,
we could all die tomorrow without having a clue about it.

reply to post by daryllyn


Why?...what's wrong with doom porn?

I believe Ison will brighten up after it's close sun passing.
and if it survives it's first ''charge'' it will be an ordinary comet that might give us a good show on it's leaving...

reply to post by Dr1Akula


Good Question. Nothing wrong with a little bit imo.

Who came up with that name anyway ''Doom Porn''?

Sound's like something an American would say.

JayinAR

Say what??!
As the comet passes around the sun, its trajectory headed back out will depend ENTIRELY on its mass and density.

I am but a layman and can easily see that this entire post is incorrect.

At any rate, YAY! Fresh doom.
I actually didn't like the four horseman reference.

A comet has an elliptical orbit,so it has a centrifugal force just like a sattelite, F = mυ²/R
so,
If the comet isn't directed to the sun and doesn't fall in, that means it's speed is creating a centrifugal force that
opposes the attraction of gravity of the sun m*V²/(R+h) = G*m*M/(R+h)²


and it becomes greater than the gravity of the sun when it escapes. m*V²/(R+h) > G*m*M/(R+h)²,
m is the mass of the comet =>
V²>G*M/R+h
that means isons path will not be affected by changes on it's mass, but depends entirely by it's speed.
So unless Ison will be slowed down by something ex. the sun's corona (atmospere) if thats even possible,
it's orbit will go on track.

reply to post by Riffrafter


This is pure speculation on my part, but in relation to your joking 4 horsemen comment.

ISON = I son (the son)
ENCKE = Enki - The father of the Anunaki according to Sitchen.
EROS = Thats where the idea of erotic comes from, (because I am new I dont want to type the S
word incase I offend someone)
LOVEJOY/HOLMES = no idea.

Im not sure if this fits the description of those 4 horses or not, anyone?

reply to post by Dr1Akula

Yeah right...Just like the Russian meteorite....

In fact the Russian visitor proved that, the thousands of sky-watchers around the world CAN'T watch everything,
we could all die tomorrow without having a clue about it.

Small objects like the Russian meteorite sneak up on us all the time. That's not what I was referring to.

Why?...what's wrong with doom porn?

I believe Ison will brighten up after it's close sun passing.
and if it survives it's first ''charge'' it will be an ordinary comet that might give us a good show on it's leaving...

Doom porn is fine for some, for those that can take it with a grain of salt, for others it causes unnecessary fear and stress.

reply to post by wildespace


Well, if Ison turns out to be a space ship pretending to be a comet, then it can change direction. Didn't the part about the screaming little girl clue you in?

Um, clearly you don't know anything about how a deep vacuum effects matter. A deep vacuum like in space pulls anything not tightly bonded away from a mass. The concept is that the temperature at which something outgasses, like water in what we call outer space, is extremely low because of the vacuum. There is a very complex dynamic going on, a delicate balance that science doesn't really understand.

reply to post by Dr1Akula


Good stuff, m as in E=mC^2.

The energy of the comet does effect how the suns gravity will effect its orbit.

This is why you can hit a baseball a lot further than a wiffle ball.

Trillium
Here more info I bump into interesting

Just curious - does anyone know if someone knowledgeable has vetted this info yet?

If ISON is moving faster than predicted I'd be very interested to learn why that may be.

If info in the vid is nonsense re: predicted path & speed that would also be good to know.

It might just be that someone's comment re: ISON crossing Earth's orbit on the date/time mentioned was misinterpreted or the comment wasn't made by someone "official" or knowledgeable.

It would be nice if we could separate the wheat from the chaff...

reply to post by Riffrafter


That is interesting information. Comet Ison is still on track, running a little faster than predicted about a month ago and it shows that NASA is continually updating their prediction to make it more accurate. Ten to fifteen minutes ahead of schedule within a month is still within the variance of the original estimate I feel. I think this may make it actually be farther from earth after it's loop around the sun. I would think this is good info myself. This changing of the orbit diagram is normal as more information comes in. I am surprised that the guy in the video made a copy of the old estimate to compare the new changes to. Without it, we would not have any evidence of changes to the orbit. I wonder if the comet is heavier than originally estimated or lighter. The effect of the gravitational field of the sun on differences in mass should allow them to adjust the prediction of the comet's mass which will help predict the orbit better. I think it does show that it will miss us farther than originally predicted though. It may also mean that it will not give us as good of a show as originally predicted. How depressing, first the solar cycle is double peaked and we won't have as nice northern lights here as in the sixties, and now the comet of the century may fizzle out. Oh well, we have four comets to look at....I suppose that makes up for it. I remember a few years back when we had that big comet in the sky, it was so close that the eastern sky was full of the Coma but it was dull. I think that was because crystals in the atmosphere made it look way larger, like the magnification of the harvest moon. It was neat to see though

reply to post by rickymouse


comet's orbit does NOT depend on its mass. period.
it's just the fact that the more points of reference you've got, the more precise the calculations of the comet's speed and acceleration are - direction is easier to track, but the speed isn't linear because of the acceleration, so you have to take few points in time into account when solving the equations - the more points, the more precise the calculations are.

reply to post by jedi_hamster


Than why is the estimate of the mass of the sun and mass of the orbiting body used in computation of the orbit? Seems strange that they would use these to figure it out if they have nothing to do with the orbit. I assume M stands for mass

I could be wrong though, I could be reading the formulas wrong.

reply to post by rickymouse


you are wrong. so was i, not so long ago.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by jedi_hamster


The mass of the comet forms the shape of the orbit. This observations of the orbit allows science to predict the mass of the comet using information of it's directed path and speed. This also allows them to predict the shape of the orbit. The whole orbit shape would be directly related to the mass in my thoughts. When a comet looses mass, then they could accurately recalculate what the next orbit would be like, which is altered because of it's loss of mass. The predictions from past comets and asteroids gives science a good prediction of the loss of mass and give a pretty accurate path.

In the case of this particular comet which may possibly have not visited this solar system before, there may be some discrepancies. NASA probably adjusted the estimated mass of the comet while they adjusted the speed.
The formula is to figure out the mass of the orbiting object from the speed and shape of the orbit. I guess the effect planets have on the orbit distortion is also important.

Now, I am definitely no expert on these things but did see a relationship by looking how orbits are analyzed over the years. I think the rotational spin of the object is also important, but I do not know for sure if that applies to comets.

I can't understand why people here say that mass has nothing to do with it.

reply to post by rickymouse


why? because physics says so.
something you've obviously chosen to completely ignore.