What is point in doing science...

Krazysh0t
reply to post by OneManArmy

 

Whatever led you believe that people did what is right WITH those things hanging over their heads? I don't know if you haven't noticed but it's not like the world went to hell overnight. There have been atrocities and abuse going on since the dawn of civilization. Remember that whole slavery thing? Oh wait, I guess that may be a bad example since the bible condones slavery.

Well what about the Inquisition? Gah that was sanctioned by the church... Hmmm... How about the crusades... No nevermind...

edit on 1-11-2013 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)

Of course I do not refute any of that. Religion has and still is being "interpreted" to justify whatever the power mongers want it to justify.
What made me come to my assumption is with the rise in atheism and decline in religion, morals seem to be going out the window. Just my observation, having been here for 38 years and pondering things.

SuperFrog

Why?

You don't think we can do fine on our own?

let's put it this way: history has proven that if a group of people can be isolated, ostracized and wiped out of existence because of belief, race, nationality, size of bank account or gender, and the ancient texts have answers that prove none of that is necessary, then yeah, we need to know and we need to make sure it never gets erased from human memory, or otherwise, we will end up with incomplete data about the ancient past, from only one world view, that has been artificially manipulated by a bunch of religious guys who were doing their own version of the masada complex. the advent of the printing press and the translation of the bible into english was causing wide swaths of people to exodus out of the catholic church, and the papacy seems to have taken the position of "if we can't have it, nobody can", which in my view translates as: yes the papacy engineered atheism as a world view, as a weapon against opposing world views. they win either way. consummate chess players, those guys.

reply to post by undo


undo - that was my good try to get somewhere... and you still got it wrong.

No, we are not image of God(s), but they are image of us - our fatherly figure that watches and 'cares' for us. Isn't that what all religions are teaching us?

One thing we (humans) are - great creators! We are first known species that was able to use its ability to create new tools and even imagine and create things as needed. This is how we were able to create whole religion - for few to take control of masses.

Religion used our need for belonging to group, what Maslow recognized in his hierarchy of needs, and trough this enslaved masses and made them part of following flock.

reply to post by OneManArmy


Please tell me you did not place words moral and religion in the same sentence?!

What is so moral about religion, or better - how does religion teach you about morality?

SuperFrog


One thing we (humans) are - great creators! We are first known species that was able to use its ability to create new tools and even imagine and create things as needed.

That isnt strictly true as primates and birds have been known to use tools. But I get your point.

Humans are the first to create and record language.

SuperFrog
reply to post by OneManArmy

 

Please tell me you did not place words moral and religion in the same sentence?!

What is so moral about religion, or better - how does religion teach you about morality?

"Thou shalt not kill"

SuperFrog
reply to post by undo

 

undo - that was my good try to get somewhere... and you still got it wrong.

No, we are not image of God(s), but they are image of us - our fatherly figure that watches and 'cares' for us. Isn't that what all religions are teaching us?

One thing we (humans) are - great creators! We are first known species that was able to use its ability to create new tools and even imagine and create things as needed. This is how we were able to create whole religion - for few to take control of masses.

Religion used our need for belonging to group, what Maslow recognized in his hierarchy of needs, and trough this enslaved masses and made them part of following flock.

yes we are the image of elohim (gods). but some of them are retaining the data from the rest of us. like huge chunks of ancient texts are missing. it isn't that what the texts say is wrong, but the missing parts make the text say something other than it should.

SuperFrog
reply to post by OneManArmy

 

Please tell me you did not place words moral and religion in the same sentence?!

What is so moral about religion, or better - how does religion teach you about morality?

just look, no comments



www.youtube.com...

OneManArmy

SuperFrog
reply to post by OneManArmy

 

Please tell me you did not place words moral and religion in the same sentence?!

What is so moral about religion, or better - how does religion teach you about morality?

"Thou shalt not kill"

"Thou shalt not kill" ???
look the vid in my post above

reply to post by OneManArmy

And without religion, you would just go around and kill people?!

How come, we humans are rare species that kills its kind, and most of those killings trough history actually occurred as part of religion conflicts?

Regarding 10 commandments...



Or in a bit funny version as previously mentioned George Karlin.... he made it from 10 into 1 and that one should be self knowing...



Anything better?

KrzYma

Just fixed it for ya

reply to post by SuperFrog


"any better?" you ask

sure

reply to post by OneManArmy


Again what morals? Prostitution is always quoted as the oldest profession yet religion refutes prostitution as immoral. Crime (real crime, not moral crimes created by the government like prohibition) has existed forever. Heck bringing up the Prohibition, it failed miserably despite the country supposedly being a "Christian nation." Rape is another great example. What is the first thing an occupying army does whenever it conquers another land since forever? Rape the women.

This whole moral greatness of the past that religious people fall back on is complete nonsense. God and hell did nothing to abate man's desire to screw with other men. Even during the course of our country for the first 70 years, we had slavery and then for close to 100 afterwards we had segregation and rampant racism that is certainly not very Godly or moral.

reply to post by SuperFrog


"if is only right when agrees with the bible? "

thats like the chicken and egg,,who came first Science,or God.
true science finds that,,God was there all along.
a man then cry's Eurica!,, i have discovered something,,i have revealed to the world a great truth.!

water is wet.
and makes a mess on the floor,,like it always did,,and still does.

reply to post by Krazysh0t


this is the issue i take with your position.
many didn't believe in slavery when it was happening. but they weren't the ones in power. see how that works? then the power brokers, point at the "dingbats" (the people who pointed out that jesus spoke against slavery and segregation of any kind, 2000 years ago) and claim its their fault.


Le mew, Le sigh. Le, i am not a sacrificial goat, thanks anyway

reply to post by undo


I guess you posted this in wrong topic.

Topic here is that science and religion are mutually exclusive.

There is no science in any of religions or holy books, and as Neil DeGrease Tyson more then once said ...

reply to post by SuperFrog


What about science and spirituality?

undo
reply to post by Krazysh0t

 

this is the issue i take with your position.
many didn't believe in slavery when it was happening. but they weren't the ones in power. see how that works? then the power brokers, point at the "dingbats" (the people who pointed out that jesus spoke against slavery and segregation of any kind, 2000 years ago) and claim its their fault.


Le mew, Le sigh. Le, i am not a sacrificial goat, thanks anyway

edit on 1-11-2013 by undo because: (no reason given)

Did he now? I must have missed that sermon in church growing up.

The Bible and slavery

Slavery in the New Testament

In several Pauline epistles, and the First Epistle of Peter, slaves are admonished to obey their masters, as to the Lord, and not to men;[83][84][85][86][87] however Masters were told to serve their slaves "in the same way"[88] and "even better" as "brothers",[89] to not threaten them as God is their Master as well.

The Epistle to Philemon has become an important text in regard to slavery; it was used by pro-slavery advocates as well as by abolitionists.[20][90] In the epistle, Paul writes that he is returning Onesimus, a fugitive slave, back to his master Philemon; however, Paul also entreats Philemon to regard Onesimus, who he says he views as a son, not as a slave but as a beloved brother in Christ. Philemon is requested to treat Onesimus as he would treat Paul. [91

That is the only blurb about slavery in the New Testament. I see nothing about Christ denouncing slavery and he certainly didn't denounce segregation since that wasn't even a thing back then.

This again... Have you all not realized that this argument is getting old?? And that it doesn't change??

This is what Science Vs. Religion looks like to an outside observer...

"I am right, you are wrong."

"No, I am right, you are wrong."

"Prove it."

"No, you prove it."

"I have this book, it's all the proof I need."

"Well my book proves your book wrong."

"Shut up."

"No, YOU shut up!"

"I'm going to kick you in the balls!"

"Try it and I'll kill your family!"

"Not if I kill your family first!"

Now it doesn't matter if the Scientist starts the conversation, of if the religious person starts the conversation. It's always EXACTLY THE SAME,.

Face it people, NO HUMAN ON THIS EARTH IS MATURE ENOUGH TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION.

I'm sorry to say this, and I hope that you all know that I respect the ATS community and I do not mean to offend you..


[SNIP]

Mod Note: ALL MEMBERS: We expect civility and decorum within all topics - Please Review This Link.

SuperFrog
reply to post by undo

 

I guess you posted this in wrong topic.

Topic here is that science and religion are mutually exclusive.

There is no science in any of religions or holy books, and as Neil DeGrease Tyson more then once said ...

sure there is science in ancient texts

for example, how do you make a copy of a life form other than via sexual reproduction? ya clone it from the dna of the original.



how do you make sure it doesn't regenerate all its body parts? you modify its DNA. (this is the fall narrative)
what is the tree of life? regenerative dna
what is the tree of knowledge? reproductive dna (adam KNEW his wife and she begat. knowledge meant sex back then)
how do you RE-create something ? well you first need an original to create from, and then you create it again, from the original template.

it's so obvious. i can also prove they had data on wormholes and space travel, thousands of years ago and didn't share it with us other than in the form of metaphor . want the proof?