Debt To China Is Null And Void

reply to post by Wrabbit2000



You are just flat out wrong. Who cares where the "old" government went?? The FACT is that the bonds are based on sovereign debt from CHINA and are backed by both the Chinese government AND its people.
By your analogy, BO and company could just move the themselves to another country and that would make OUR debt null and void by proxy. The real world doesn't work that way and I find everyone's whimsical responses to being owed debt that won't ever get paid worrisome.

To answer another poster questioning my sources...claiming he could find none besides one which was a website asking for donations:

If you type in "China owes US $800 Billion" into any search engine you will reeive pages of links such as:

An article on August 26, 2011 on foxnews.com

An article on June 19, 2012....dailycaller.com

An article dated November 16, 2009 from cbsnews.com

I'm not gonna spoon feed you guys the information. I brought it to the communities attention...sometimes you gotta do some legwork yourself. None of my claims can be discredited...I dont post lies.

Now I will be waiting for the posters who mention Taiwan is the debtor to provide proof of their claims because I cannot.

reply to post by imasheep

I'm not gonna spoon feed you guys the information. I brought it to the communities attention...sometimes you gotta do some legwork yourself. None of my claims can be discredited...I dont post lies.

I absolutely did not call you a liar, and I never will. I don't even have to check my post to verify that because I don't call anyone a liar unless they are, outright and totally fabricating a story from thin air. You have sources and you have some things that sound factual. What we have here is a pretty serious difference of opinion. Indeed... opinion.

I'm not a scholar in international law and matters of sovereign debt between nations. Your sources are MSM...which makes them about as qualified as I am. Literally, as it happens. If you have law...regulation ..those little details that would actually have to be USED to collect on anything remotely like you suggest here? Well, I'm definitely interested. Short of that, we have opinions which are quite opposite. MSM as a source with conflicting, researched opinions, is no tie breaker on any level.

As for Taiwan, that is a literal and straight matter of historical fact. When World War II wound down. China wound back UP and fighting was a few years from ending there, for their civil war. Chiang Kai-shek became China's nominal leader in 1926 and served in a similar function as Chairman of the National Military Council of China from 1928 to 1948. He and HIS Government signed the deals, made the agreements and generally ran our credit out.

When he and his Nationalist Party lost the Chinese Communist Party in 1949, Chiang retreated with his Government and Military to Formosa, as the PRC considers it. Chiang Kai-shek then ruled Taiwan as the Republic of China until 1975.

So, that is where Taiwan comes into it and the line of succession for Government out of Mainland China to Taiwan as a continuous chain is clear and unbroken. We can hold the People's Republic of China liable for what the Republic of China did ..and that might have even made sense, if it hadn't SURVIVED intact and in another land area adjacent to the mainland. However, it did..

*** Nothing above changes the math though. IF 800 Billion can actually be established in some international forum as a valid and legitimate debt ... Dandy.. We owe THEM 200-500 billion MORE in the way of Treasuries and Securities they hold. So...again... IF we won..We'd win the right to a "Pay Right NOW" type of bill for 1/4 to over half what WE set out to collect.

Talk about chasing an expensive and hollow victory.

cloaked4u
reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee

 

The next gov't that takes power will work u till you drop to pay off the debt that they bought to take power of, or defeated. You will be a slave to the master of the new gov't. of the puppet masters. It will not be ok if we fall. I will not be made a slave to other gov'ts to pay off debts i did not create. What would you say if china came over here and said, we are going to work your citizens for free until all american debts owed to china are 0. You would say, yeah right.

The debt can never be paid off - the entire annual GDP is only enough to pay the interest. Though it is "virtual money" - not gold, silver coins or bars. Just digital amounts that conform to the rules of economics.

What gets to me is that you have families divorcing, becoming homeless, and people committing suicide all due to these digital currency numbers - loans created and transferred electronically, bills printed and paid electronically, salary deposited electronically.

reply to post by bastion


Do you have references or sources for more information?

GoalPoster

Wrabbit2000
I'm really not sure we'd want to see our Government go too deep down this particular hole, searching for riches. They may find others down there ...waiting patiently for *US* to pay up some Ungodly amounts by now. Interest and all can be a real ugly thing.

Anyone consider the broken treaties and deals with, say, the Native Americans as just one example? That wasn't ancient history after all. Unlike China, there hasn't even been a Sea Change of Government. We still have the same one, unbroken in succession and lines of control.

So, we chase China for a few hundred billion or even trillion ...and the Ghosts of bad deals long past taps Uncle on the shoulder with a bill for several times that ..expecting payment in full. Nawww..... Perhaps we best not push too much on that. Just my thinking.

Dear Mr. B. Obama


Dude, Where's our gold?

Sincerely
Germany

The gold the Germans stole? Or the gold the Germans had before they stole from other countries that they invaded and left in ruins?
Some countries got paid war reparations...some were forced to agree to receive very very very little. Much less then they were owed by the Germans. Go back in time, make the Germans pay everything they owed, and I strongly doubt the Germans would be in the strong economic position they are in today.
The Germans should be the last ones to ask for gold or payments from anyone. They owe their current economic fortunes to the US of A, and other Europeans who haven't pressed the issue of reparations.


What it all boils down to is one thing. The elitist globalist sons of bitches who bank roll governments and finance wars have been getting rich off everyone elses misfortunes and continue to do so today. While the majority of the planet is too blind to see it because of the distractions in front of them, like Miley Cyrys dancing naked, or Justin Bieber taking naked photos of him self while playing a guitar for his grandmother, or a million and one other things which are pointless and do nothing to enrich our lives.
And that's just how they like it. They use these tools against us.
They control us by keeping us distracted and blind.

So the OP may want to think about that, before declaring that the debt to China is null and void.

reply to post by imasheep

That means that right now...this very second....the US of A could dollar for dollar offset our bond interest we owe China. So...why on Gods green Earth are we allowing our government to continue paying these reneggers ANYTHING!!??

Because in 1949 China didn't have the bomb...now in 2013, they have 1000's of them.

That's the difference.

But yeah..MAD being MAD and all that, i'd tell China to go and take a running jump too. Pay what you owe and we'll then pay what we owe you...fair enough?

reply to post by MysterX


Where did anyone get the impression that China has "thousands of them"? They have a modest but respectable nuclear forces deterrent. They don't have absurd numbers like the US and Russia though. Russia takes the cake and the whole bakery with it, while the US follows right behind with far more than multiple wars would need.

China has been somewhat logical in making what would actually be needed to use...which somehow, makes it more sobering in a way.


(Source: FAS)

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


If you believe those figures you may believe the tooth fairy too.

Those are the declared numbers, what they officially state they have because of treaties restricting how many and treaties forcing them to reduce the amount they have in the case of the USA/Russia.

But in reality they will be holding many more in secret locations that both the locations and their contents remain undeclared.

After all, what good is a deterrent if your enemies know exactly where it is and how many you have?

Th Chinese especially will be lying about how many they have, given the secrecy in which they operate under.

My understanding is that those who control the US want the economy to crash so they can gain more power over the people.

Maybe they don't want China to pay its debt? If China did, it might ruin their plans...

imasheep

I tried conducting a search for this but my stupid smartphone has egregious load times. I'm sure it has been mentioned somewhere, but this definitely bears repeating.

On Drudge, I pulled up the story about China State Television releasing a map of a nuked America. While reading the comments on the story, someone mentioned the debt owed to America by the Chinese. I had never heard of this even though I consider myself "in the know".

I took a dive down that rabbit hole and found the following:

During WW1, China sold sovereign bonds worldwide to many investors....most being in America.
Those bonds are gauranteed through the International Court of Settlements AND by PRC as SOVEREIGN DEBT. That means that in 1949, when Communists took over China, that the successor government ie: the Communist Party in charge, took over that obligation under International Law.

With interest and penalties owed on the debt, China OWES the US of A $800 BILLION!!!! Let that sink in for a second....


That means that right now...this very second....the US of A could dollar for dollar offset our bond interest we owe China. So...why on Gods green Earth are we allowing our government to continue paying these reneggers ANYTHING!!??


Want to be more upset? In 2006 the Chinese Minister of Finance sent a communication to the US Embassy in China in which China REPUDIATED its full faith and credit sovereign debt and announnced that it would NOT repay ANY debt owed to America. Yes, China told the US of A to take a hike. And how do we respond? By paying our interest to them every month ON TIME. WTF is that crap!?


China tried doing the same crap to Britain. Know how the Brits responded? By not allowing China out of European Markets until they repaid what was owed to them. China immediately paid the debt. Way to stand up Britain!! We in the US have apparently lost our testicular fortitude to DEMAND repayment, so kudos to you guys.


In total, China has defaulted on those bonds to the tune of $5 TRILLION worldwide. Meanwhile, those ass clowns tout how much gold and cash reserves they have! Technically, China is worse off than the US....or should be...on paper anyway.


While I'm aware that most of the bonds are held by citizens of the US and not a government agency, I feel this crap should be dealt with in a swift and harsh manner. This money is owed to US so I feel until its paid in full, we shouldn't pay China one red cent for anything. When you add in the YEARS of espionage where China has stolen military secrets and consistently sold knock offs of American made products, I believe its China that should be paying the US of A money every month.


When a rogue country like China decides to not pay its bills, but demands repayment of bills owed, they need to be slapped...HARD. I hate war...its stupid and only benefits the "machine". However...since the world considers the US of A to be the worlds bully, I feel we should take Chinas lunch money AND kick them in the shins. If we don't make a stand, it just proves we are a bunch of spineless wuss bags...here to be taken advantage of. I'm tired of getting screwed with taxes while other countries refuse to honor their obligations!!!

For fun, I encourage you guys to try to find any list stating what countries of the world OWE the US of A money. I did, and I couldn't find one anywhere with any type of verified info. In fact, I typed in the following into Google to see what would come up:


Countries which owe America
Debt owed to America
Foreign debt owed to America

I also switched America to both US and USA.

The results pages only showed items relating to the debt WE owe, not owed. I found ONE article stating that HK and Switzerland owed us, but considering it left out China and France, I decided the article was hogwash. I just don't understand how a search for debt owed returns results on debt WE owe. Conspiracy right there.

Anywho, that's what I found today. It makes me so mad to know this crap that I almost can't think straight. Its utter nonsense!

What say you ATS?

i say let us see the document proof that the USA owes China Or Is It Taiwan that we owe?
there is the Chang Kai-shek China and there is the Communist China which we never had any diplomatic ties with until president Nixon


The Nationalist Chinese began the conquest of the frontier provinces... the Communist Chinese seized the mainland and the Nationalists fled to Exile on Taiwan..
so whom is the debt owed to ?

related reading: www.silkroadstudies.org...

reply to post by iBallinU

If you believe those figures you may believe the tooth fairy too.

Well, if the Federation of American Scientists isn't to your liking for a source, I certainly have others. You see, outside of Israel who isn't a part of the treaty, it would help to understand those arent numbers someone is spitballing or estimating.

Under treaties going back decades, those numbers are determined by what is declared and then VERIFIED to exist. So....I'm sorry if one of the more reliable and accepted sources in the world isn't up to your standards. Please do share what would be.