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License-plate scanners: Crime-fighting tool or invasion of privacy?

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posted on Nov, 1 2013 @ 01:08 PM
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Its funny, it never gets much publicity, but do you know how the majority of fugitives are caught?

Electronic transactions, and traffic cams.




posted on Nov, 1 2013 @ 01:13 PM
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captaintyinknots
Its funny, it never gets much publicity, but do you know how the majority of fugitives are caught?

Electronic transactions, and traffic cams.



You are saying that more fugitives are caught now as opposed to before there were traffic cams? I find that hard to believe. I have seen an increase in crime in my area with the economy the way it is, and no increase in the catching or prevention parts.



posted on Nov, 1 2013 @ 01:15 PM
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Iamschist

captaintyinknots
Its funny, it never gets much publicity, but do you know how the majority of fugitives are caught?

Electronic transactions, and traffic cams.



You are saying that more fugitives are caught now as opposed to before there were traffic cams? I find that hard to believe. I have seen an increase in crime in my area with the economy the way it is, and no increase in the catching or prevention parts.

1) I am saying that right now, the majority of fugitives that are caught and/or tracked, are doneso through either electronic transactions, or traffic cams. I never said anything about amounts of fugitives caught now versus pre-cam days.

2)Do you really think there are not more criminals and fugitives caught now than pre-technology spike? Seriously? You think it is easier for a criminal to slip through the cracks now than it used to be?



posted on Nov, 1 2013 @ 01:17 PM
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I think the very purpose of your license plate is to communicate a reference to you and your vehicle's particulars to the authorities. It's a real biatch for the red light jumpers, that they can spot them easier these days.
edit on 1-11-2013 by rom12345 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2013 @ 01:23 PM
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captaintyinknots

Iamschist

captaintyinknots
Its funny, it never gets much publicity, but do you know how the majority of fugitives are caught?

Electronic transactions, and traffic cams.



You are saying that more fugitives are caught now as opposed to before there were traffic cams? I find that hard to believe. I have seen an increase in crime in my area with the economy the way it is, and no increase in the catching or prevention parts.

1) I am saying that right now, the majority of fugitives that are caught and/or tracked, are doneso through either electronic transactions, or traffic cams. I never said anything about amounts of fugitives caught now versus pre-cam days.

2)Do you really think there are not more criminals and fugitives caught now than pre-technology spike? Seriously? You think it is easier for a criminal to slip through the cracks now than it used to be?



I think when it is a case of large public interest, such as the Boston bombing, technology is obviously helpful, after the fact. I also think in the case of ordinary police day to day, when you are busy putting out fires, there simply is not time to look for matches. In my particular area routine traffic stops net more fugitives and drug smugglers than any other means. It is an 'accident' that the car without a tail light, or the truck going to fast also has a wanted driver or is loaded with drugs.



posted on Nov, 1 2013 @ 02:01 PM
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Iamschist

captaintyinknots

Iamschist

captaintyinknots
Its funny, it never gets much publicity, but do you know how the majority of fugitives are caught?

Electronic transactions, and traffic cams.



You are saying that more fugitives are caught now as opposed to before there were traffic cams? I find that hard to believe. I have seen an increase in crime in my area with the economy the way it is, and no increase in the catching or prevention parts.

1) I am saying that right now, the majority of fugitives that are caught and/or tracked, are doneso through either electronic transactions, or traffic cams. I never said anything about amounts of fugitives caught now versus pre-cam days.

2)Do you really think there are not more criminals and fugitives caught now than pre-technology spike? Seriously? You think it is easier for a criminal to slip through the cracks now than it used to be?



I think when it is a case of large public interest, such as the Boston bombing, technology is obviously helpful, after the fact. I also think in the case of ordinary police day to day, when you are busy putting out fires, there simply is not time to look for matches. In my particular area routine traffic stops net more fugitives and drug smugglers than any other means. It is an 'accident' that the car without a tail light, or the truck going to fast also has a wanted driver or is loaded with drugs.
Fair enough, though i would implore you to do some research, and realize that 'your area' probably isnt a fair snapshot of the country as a whole.



posted on Nov, 1 2013 @ 03:00 PM
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reply to post by DontTreadOnMe
 

I dont see how a government supplied license plate....would not be able to be read as its in full view of the public. Nothing private about that. They issue speeding tickets in the mail the same way. Observe by camera and mail offenses to the drivers home.

If my neighbor or the guy behind me can write down my plate....I cant see how that would be an invasion of my privacy...especially when the observable plate...is not private.



posted on Nov, 1 2013 @ 05:13 PM
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Wrabbit2000
reply to post by crankyoldman
 


They may own the plates. I own my vehicles. I'd have to disagree on this point.

I can take my car, without permission or notifying anyone, to any state and then change registration entirely if I choose to. I can take it to Canada and, if it meets their regulations for safety and I'm legal under Canadian law? I can register it there or sell it there. Same with Mexico. I need no one's permission on any level, unless of course I have a lien placed on it. That wouldn't be the state or Government necessarily though. A lien can be placed by a private party too. So that's a process not exclusive to Government. Making it a tool, not a default condition. (Unlike a house, where failure to pay property taxes means losing that property without further debate)

My two cents...


All due respect wrabbit, check your "registration." Then look up alloidal title and automobiles. There is a difference between title and alloidal title. If you have alloidal title, which you do not, you can do as you please. You cannot get alloidal title to your car, or your house, or, believe it or not, your body - the government owns those things and lets you lease them back. That is the reason they can "tow" your property, "search" your property, "ticket" your property and send you a bill for any reason on your property - they are only controlling what is theirs and if you violate their "terms of use" the are free to impose sanctions of you. Alloidal. No amount of "I'll do as I damn well please" changes the legal terms.



posted on Nov, 1 2013 @ 05:37 PM
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Police here in the UK have had it for years. They can tell in an instant if a car is stolen, or got no insurance etc. no big deal, we are used to it. If you are driving legal you have nothing to worry about.




Police-enforced ANPR in the UK From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Closed-circuit television cameras such as these can be used to take the images scanned by automatic number plate recognition systems The UK has an extensive automatic number plate recognition (ANPR) CCTV network. Police and security services use it to track UK vehicle movements in real time. The resulting data are stored for 2 years in the National ANPR Data Centre to be analyzed for intelligence and to be used as evidence.[1] Following the formation of the Conservative – Liberal Democrat Coalition after the 2010 General Election, it was announced in July 2010 that the system is to be placed under statutory regulation. This is likely to establish a right in law to collect the data, and place controls on its use, storage and access by third parties.[2] The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 was enacted in order to provide for tighter regulation of ANPR.



posted on Nov, 1 2013 @ 05:57 PM
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ThePeaceMaker
Wow where have you Americans been .. Most of out cop cars in the UK now have ANPR (automatic number plate reading) cameras.

I will try and write a more lengthily reply but kind of busy right now
wow this is 13 years old news to me i remember getting pulled over because my road tax was 2 days out .

i knew the police man and asked him how the heck he had seen that and he showed me the screen in the car and how it scans every car that passes all they do is wait for it to go BEEP look down to see what car has been flagged up .

and face recognition has been here for years to in the u.k



posted on Nov, 1 2013 @ 06:04 PM
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reply to post by crankyoldman
 


Okay.. I tend to get a headache with the ultra-technical points of law to get into for things like this. I'm really too busy tonight to crack law books and start reading sections and sub sections to confirm anything on this.

So how does what your describing change the fact I can go out and sell or give away my car this evening, if I chose, to the very first person I see? (I do own it outright. That is, paid in cash, not payments) No permission. No permit. No calls to the state or federal Government. The same thing I'd do if I wanted to sell one of my power tools or televisions?

I think it may make a difference to me if you can explain what I cannot do now, vs. what I could do with the title worded how you describe there, to illustrate the difference in a real world way that matters?



posted on Nov, 1 2013 @ 06:14 PM
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reply to post by geobro
 


I had to read the opening post twice to see I had read it correctly! We all know about it here in the UK, I mean, look at London traffic for a case in point. They scan every single vehicle that goes into the city and leaves as well .
That's one of the reasons I make sure my car is legal as I know they can scan my car and do so on a regular basis, it's a way of life here and not news for us.

From Wilkopedia:




ANPR was invented in 1976 at the Police Scientific Development Branch in the UK[citation needed]. Prototype systems were working by 1979, and contracts were let to produce industrial systems, first at EMI Electronics, and then at Computer Recognition Systems (CRS) in Wokingham, UK. Early trial systems were deployed on the A1 road and at the Dartford Tunnel. However it did not become widely used until new developments in cheaper and easier to use software was pioneered during the 1990s. The first arrest through detection of a stolen car was made in 1981[citation needed] and the first documented case of ANPR in helping solve a murder occurred in November 2005 after the murder of Sharon Beshenivsky, in which City of Bradford based ANPR played a vital role in locating and subsequently convicting her killers.[3]

edit on 1-11-2013 by scotsdavy1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2013 @ 06:58 PM
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Wrabbit2000
reply to post by crankyoldman
 


Okay.. I tend to get a headache with the ultra-technical points of law to get into for things like this. I'm really too busy tonight to crack law books and start reading sections and sub sections to confirm anything on this.

So how does what your describing change the fact I can go out and sell or give away my car this evening, if I chose, to the very first person I see? (I do own it outright. That is, paid in cash, not payments) No permission. No permit. No calls to the state or federal Government. The same thing I'd do if I wanted to sell one of my power tools or televisions?

I think it may make a difference to me if you can explain what I cannot do now, vs. what I could do with the title worded how you describe there, to illustrate the difference in a real world way that matters?


The difference is not semantics, it is "permission." You have permission to 'sell" it to another, but it is not a right based on your Free Self. The problem is what you believe vs what is more real. You believe you own it because you have permission, but that is not a right. Where does the ORIGINAL title come from? The car is made just like a washing machine, yet one has a "title" and the other does not - you have a "copy" of the title but where is the real one and where did it come from?. One can be impounded, taxed, or fined, the other cannot. One you hold implied title too, the other do not - the State does. Yes the illusions says, "I can do what I damn well please" but you fail to see that every action you take with that car, including crushing it, requires to you to notify the State: you must get permission. The give tacit approval to almost all actions, but, the might not on some matters.

Your license to drive is permission to use the system of driving. License is the right to use with restrictions. You believe it is proof you are suitable to drive, this is wrong by the terms. The terms are: You may "drive" if you agree to the rules, you may "travel" but not drive without adhering to the rules as "traveling" is not a licensed action - no one holds the copyright on that.

Your house is the same, you are the "tenant" even if you "own" it. You own the building, but never the land - ergo the illusion.

The same goes for your body, your birth certificate is a bill of lading for your body. You are not free to do with it as you please and State has the right to use you as they see fit. That one is more sticky but there is no difference to the house or car. You are a slave, you are owned by the State, your car is a rented from the State and no matter who you are or where you live you live in a State Home. Those are truths, the illusion is the problem, as there is just enough effort to give you the illusion you "own" something to keep you from asking the important questions.

The State can impound their car, their house, or their body anytime they see fit.

Now, that said. It does not matter anymore. The people that stand in between you and your true freedom are all, to a man, brain dead believers in the enslavement system. They are drones who not only do not care about your truth and find it amusing that you think it exists at all. So what I said is truth, or Truth with a capital "t," but on Earth, at this time, it matters not because the human populace sees "selling the car" with the State's permission as the same as selling it because you are a Free Human.

There was a great poster here, the protoplasmic traveler, who was banned for some reason, who vetted most of this out in person and told his stories with backup. At one point you could reach at least one person in each system who really knew, but now you will never reach them - your path to this Truth is blocked by zombies who are so well mind controlled that they do not see your enslavement is theirs too.

Humans are Free and yet the crave enslavement, the mock freedom and they will kill those who suggest the freedom is a divine right of self. Sadly, bodies on Earth are the property, just like a car - of who is another story that does not belong in this thread.



posted on Nov, 1 2013 @ 07:05 PM
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reply to post by crankyoldman
 


I'll just leave it with this at this point. If you can support what you're saying with links to the law, regulation or explanation from a credible and verifiable source? I'm interested... I'm sincerely and genuinely interested. If not? I still didn't hear in simple terms, what practical and real world difference exists to the step by step process of selling my car between the title I have and the one you say exists.

(or, at this stage, where this still applies to the topic of the thread we're on?)

Have a good evening... It's been an interesting chat on this.
edit on 1-11-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: Minor edit



posted on Nov, 1 2013 @ 09:36 PM
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reply to post by crankyoldman
 

Cranky ... you oughta do a thread on this!!!!

I looked into what you're saying a long while back. What you're covering is some of the most suppressed information no government ever wanted anyone to know. I suspect it will get you placed on a terrorist watch list ... but we're all gonna wind up there sooner or later anyway, right?


If you take me up on my suggestion U2U me and I'll help flesh the thread out.



posted on Nov, 1 2013 @ 09:46 PM
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reply to post by crankyoldman
 

We are just the individual systems of our own demise in society then? I understand and agree with your point on the self subjugation when submitting to licensing in driving. When does the subjugation stop though? Cars have become common place in everyday life. So much as to say I can't make a living without using a vehicle. Shouldn't freedom expand to take these technological marvels into light? Freedom at least from having my entire routine monitored and stored by some authority so that, presumably, they can find me on a whim in moments notice?

These LP captures will prove dangerous in judiciary ordeals. Or will we forget that police forces have been using Federal data to initiate vehicle stops?



posted on Nov, 1 2013 @ 10:44 PM
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reply to post by DontTreadOnMe
 





These cameras on police cars and static places such as bridges are collecting data, scanning our plates, and storing that info for extended periods of time. I'm not clear if they are only reading the visible numbers, or if those little squiggles on the plate are actually what is being read. [I stil want to know what those squiggles are ]


All this time I thought that license plates were meant to be viewed.

Yes they may be able to track you but they can track your phone too. This technology is over a decade old.



posted on Nov, 1 2013 @ 10:56 PM
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DontTreadOnMe
reply to post by grey580
 


But, are you "in the public" when you are in your own car?
It is a privately owned, and mostly enclosed vehicle, after all.


And this privatly owned enclosed vehicle is on a public road.

What is the privacy issue here?



posted on Nov, 2 2013 @ 11:56 AM
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theHattersfolly
reply to post by crankyoldman
 

We are just the individual systems of our own demise in society then? I understand and agree with your point on the self subjugation when submitting to licensing in driving. When does the subjugation stop though? Cars have become common place in everyday life. So much as to say I can't make a living without using a vehicle. Shouldn't freedom expand to take these technological marvels into light? Freedom at least from having my entire routine monitored and stored by some authority so that, presumably, they can find me on a whim in moments notice?

These LP captures will prove dangerous in judiciary ordeals. Or will we forget that police forces have been using Federal data to initiate vehicle stops?


"We are just the individual systems of our own demise in society then?"

YES! This is the key quote. It is our inherent freewill that is turned around on us. The Human Being is a freewill being, in order to get that remarkable Being to do things it is not required to do, you have to work within the framework of freewill. Ergo, you create systems that "allow" or "give permission" to do things you are free to be. Then you create a system to screwed up, so distorted, that when folks cry "I'm a freewill being" and i should be able to drive a car as I please, the rhetoric is "well, look at all these idiot drivers, you need jail to force them to drive right" and so on. For your system to work, you must created maniac drivers, immoral officers, 10 of thousands of rules, so that a civil road experience is no longer possible due to manufactured ineptitude.

RE the original point, the State is only tracking what is happening with their own vehicles, but the populace things they are THEIR vehicles, so they complain. Consider that reality. The car isn't theirs, the law says so, but they are so turned around the THINK it is theirs and complain when the car is tracked as if it isn't theirs. All the while they never stop to think, "what the hell gives these folks the right to do any of this at all, as I am a Freewill Human Being who should not have to 'pay' to travel."

In order to get a Freewill Being to do something you have to trick them into doing it in many cases. The car is the perfect metaphor for how we are tricked. In fact, all travel is done by permission - all travel. Think about that, in order to $%*&ing move on this planet, a Freewill being needs "permission!" Every action you take requires permission because your car and your body are both owned by someone other then you. The State monitors your car because it is theirs, and they can, they make sure you need permission to move because the body is theirs, not yours.



posted on Nov, 2 2013 @ 11:58 AM
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reply to post by DontTreadOnMe
 


I don't know how this is legal.

I have been told by many cops that they are not allowed to run your license plate without a reason but that doesn't keep some from doing it anyway. They also have all told me they do have monthly quota's.

So then what would be the reason for a cop finding something on a person that wasn't breaking any laws they were witness to?

I always wondered about this ESP when a cop gets up on your rear and you KNOW they are running your tag and then they just go away or pull you over.

It's crap and imo it's an invasion and harassment.



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