Edward Snowden ready to testify!

Kryyptyk
reply to post by soulwaxer

 

Its likely that Assange and co are facilitating Snowden's releases.

Considering the large hand they've had in assisting his evasion of U.S. authorities, it would make the most sense.

OK, but why would they do so many releases. Every time they release something, they are taking huge risks in being found. And did you see the photo I posted above your post? Other recent photos have been released as well, including Snowden with the German official he passed a letter to. How did he get to Snowden without leaving a trace?

reply to post by elouina

Now wouldn't it be great if they could get him permanent residence in Germany?

I think that might actually be the best of all worlds for him and for the West in general. If he's in Germany, it removes almost all of the stigma and questions of his current situation for his intentions, such that they exist at all.

It also puts him back in the world he gave everything up to change ...with a nation, apparently, very determined at this stage to force that change out of ..rage? fury? How would someone describe the general German attitude right now? They deserve all the indignation they feel.

I hate saying this, as an American ..(and wow..am I getting tired of saying that, too.. lol) but we sure screwed Germany over on this, considering they are supposed to be among our closest allies. Well, they were, anyway.

Several posters here think Snowden is in danger. Maybe, but I tend to doubt it, as if he is killed he becomes not only the guy who blew the whistle but the guy who paid the ultimate price for his deed, and then come the statues and the mothers naming their kids after him and a crater on Mars being named for him. Alive he's a thorn in the side, dead he's an icon.

reply to post by Snarl

Once the information is spent ... Snowden, himself, becomes irrelevant.

That is the other reason I really would like to see him move out of Russia into a more friendly nation. After all, Putin is seen as better, but only by circumstance and quirk of events. In any other setting? Putin and the SVR/FSB are every bit the match for the NSA/CIA and/or any other 3 letter agency we have.

I'm thinking Germany might at least couple the self interest with true compassion and concern for his future, if he supplies what they'd so badly like in getting their changes made. Russia might well toss him out like an empty beer can. He absolutely deserves better than that, IMO. Whatever happens here....

* Yeah... I'm softening a bit ... Snowden really threw me by running to hide in Russia. Call it my childhood still mired in the Cold War...but I don't trust defectors. Period. However, defectors would never cross back into Western nations, much less to HELP them. He's a confusing one at times...but he does seem to have the right intentions here. I hope he gets every opportunity to do the most good with what he knows.

Awesome, America [the people] maintain their ambivalent attitude towards this spying and nothing is getting done domestically. Glad that Snowden has finally released the right information to tick the right parties off to get something changed. The American people don't seem to care, but Germany certainly does. This could be the beginning of the end of the evil NSA. Let's hope for the best and hopefully when all this is over, Snowden gets his proper dues and is recognized as the national hero he is.

reply to post by soulwaxer


There's a serious precedent for whistle-blowers releasing sensitive or downright classified information in a piecemeal manner. Just look at the way Wikileaks handled the diplomatic cables.

As for why, there are several possible reasons. In terms of bringing the information to light, sure, dumping all at once would be the way to go. But the longer that Snowden holds onto that information, the more chips he has at the proverbial diplomacy table.

He feels compelled to release all the information he's uncovered, but he also is smart enough to realize that the information he has is the only thing keeping the U.S. allied nations from turning on him.

Aleister
Several posters here think Snowden is in danger. Maybe, but I tend to doubt it, as if he is killed he becomes not only the guy who blew the whistle but the guy who paid the ultimate price for his deed, and then come the statues and the mothers naming their kids after him and a crater on Mars being named for him. Alive he's a thorn in the side, dead he's an icon.

None of us know the nature of the remaining info Snowden has. Think about that for a second. He certainly has proven to have some VERY sensitive information so far, and it only keeps getting worse. A big question here is: Do the US authorities know what he has, left up his sleeve?

I am personally convinced that there are things A LOT more sensitive to hide than what Snowden has exposed so far... And if he has access to proof of Merkel's personal phone being tapped, then who knows what he has access to.

There are some huge questions to be asked here.

soulwaxer

hopenotfeariswhatweneed
he is quite likeable this Snownden character...its a shame he will end up disapearing ...more than likely in a very unpleasant way

he's a bit too famous now for it to be that simple. Which is a good thing. The entire world knows who Snowden is and what he's done. If he were to just disappear it would be too much of a coincidence. Fingers would be pointed straight at the US. If they were to "Disappear" Snowden, they would make things much worse for themselves.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Not that I want to be correct, but, if Mr. Snowden had that much potentially damaging information, don't you think he would no longer be with us? We are in an age that we can track someone down, (NSA), we can travel easily, and are able to clean up a crime scene like no one else (CIA).wouldnt it be reasonable to assume that Mr. Snowden would most likely be a non-issue by now?

Disclaimer: I, for one, believe Mr. Snowden has much to tell us. Just putting out some questions to the folks who think differently.

reply to post by Mommymomo


Mr. Snowden isn't working alone.

Laymen don't seem to understand the sheer size of the whistle-blower community and their supporters. There is a literal army of activists, hacktivists, crackers, hackers, free range journalists, etc that are pushing this forward. Mr. Snowden may have the information, but the information underground has the means to release that information, and to keep Mr. Snowden safe until then.

Despite what the MSM would lead you to believe, what you are witnessing isn't one man vs the world.

Kryyptyk
reply to post by soulwaxer

 

There's a serious precedent for whistle-blowers releasing sensitive or downright classified information in a piecemeal manner. Just look at the way Wikileaks handled the diplomatic cables.

As for why, there are several possible reasons. In terms of bringing the information to light, sure, dumping all at once would be the way to go. But the longer that Snowden holds onto that information, the more chips he has at the proverbial diplomacy table.

He feels compelled to release all the information he's uncovered, but he also is smart enough to realize that the information he has is the only thing keeping the U.S. allied nations from turning on him.

I understand your reasoning, and you reminded me of the fact that Snowden certainly has all his info in a safe place in case they get him. But remember, if he's a true whistle-blower, he will get his info out no matter what, even if the US authorities are nice to him. He would not have embarked on this little adventure otherwise. And what would he bargain for at the diplomacy table?

One more: How is it possible that a young guy like Snowden had access to what he leaked - am I to believe that the most powerful government in the world and its intelligence agencies are that stupid?

I don't know, but there is something about the whole Snowden issue that doesn't sit right with me.

soulwaxer

Wrabbit2000
* Yeah... I'm softening a bit ... Snowden really threw me by running to hide in Russia. Call it my childhood still mired in the Cold War...but I don't trust defectors. Period. However, defectors would never cross back into Western nations, much less to HELP them. He's a confusing one at times...but he does seem to have the right intentions here. I hope he gets every opportunity to do the most good with what he knows.

I have nothing but respect for Russian intelligence and politics. The minute you lose respect is the moment in which you lose the family jewels. Snowden is safe going to Germany because the Germans have a hate-on for America right now. This is Putin taking advantage of a crisis. Same kind of tit-for-tat the USA used to pull on the USSR ... only this time, with Obamarama at the helm ... we're coming out on the bottom.

Snowden is one smart cookie ... way smarter'n me. He knew exactly what he was doing and he knew it the whole time. I can't say I rode the fence on Snowden. More like a heavy lean towards calling him a traitor. Again ... there's no doubt in my mind he knew what he was doing. I don't know if he expected to get played by Putin, but any Intel guy can tell you that is EXACTLY what happens when you switch sides.

No Such Agency has been soaking up everything on everybody since ... well ... since a long long time. I thought everyone knew ... so I'm asking myself ... what did Snowden really run with? He had four laptops. He probably had dirt on every American in the political system ... and every American who might enter that system. The blackmail potentials for the Russians and Chinese ... we'll never have a clue as to who is calling the shots in our country again.

You wanna know what the deal is ... there it is in writing. And ... that's why Americans shouldn't be spied on by their own country for cryin' out loud!!!! The only real hope we have is that one of these running fiascos completely shatter the Obamarama administration and we come up with a president who knows how to lead.

Kryyptyk
reply to post by Mommymomo

 

Mr. Snowden isn't working alone.

Laymen don't seem to understand the sheer size of the whistle-blower community and their supporters. There is a literal army of activists, hacktivists, crackers, hackers, free range journalists, etc that are pushing this forward. Mr. Snowden may have the information, but the information underground has the means to release that information, and to keep Mr. Snowden safe until then.

Despite what the MSM would lead you to believe, what you are witnessing isn't one man vs the world.

OK, but why are the MSM leading us to believe that he is acting alone?...

soulwaxer

reply to post by soulwaxer

"OK, but why are the MSM leading us to believe that he is acting alone?..."

If you seriously have to ask that question, you're in the wrong forum. :p

soulwaxer
...what would he bargain for at the diplomacy table?

One more: How is it possible that a young guy like Snowden had access to what he leaked - am I to believe that the most powerful government in the world and its intelligence agencies are that stupid?
soulwaxer

Glad you asked!

First answer: Right now Mr. Snowden's biggest problem is finding a country that will grant him asylum. He's in Russia on a temporary basis, and he needs a more permanent residence that won't extradite him to the U.S. The obvious solution is to use the information he has as bargaining chips to secure either asylum or time to find asylum.

Second answer: Mr. Snowden was an intelligence contractor, with substantial abilities. He had an inside look, whereas most crackers and hackers do not, giving him a huge edge. Those on the outside are still able to pull information, like the things we see from Wikileaks and the like, but that takes a lot more skill and patience, often requiring large groups of people working round the clock. Age doesn't make a difference; many of the most skilled hackers are very young.

If Putin gives a green light all Snowden needs to do is set up a Skype type video conference with the interested parties in Germany. That way NSA can listen via intercept yet all their assets still can't lay a hand on him. Snowden lives, Germany gets the nitty gritty, NSA has more time for damage control.

In 1973 we did an intercept where the communist were going to kill someone friendly who was deemed an asset to the USA. We got the guy out before the hit went down. One of the military guys 'a Captain' who once the asset was safe and secure came home in a very good mood. He was in such a good mood that his wife asked, "why the great mood" and all the Captain reportedly said was, "it looks like we saved someone's life today". He would not say anything more about the operation.

Well, wives will be wives, so his wife asked some of the other wives about the who, where, and when... Needless to say TSHF and the Captain lost his top secret clearance and was out of the service in quick order... He was lucky he did not have to serve any jail time if I remember correctly.

The Captain was one of the annalist, closer to a nerd and certainly not a warrior who with one statement had a very quick and drastic career change. All I can say is the paranoia in and at NSA is unbelievable to a normal person.

Many of the things we complain about going on in our country is a direct result of the paranoia leaking from the NSA buildings and infecting everyone who comes in contact with them .

Believe it or not I am all for NSA doing their job "legally" with oversight so some of the sick crap they will pull is stopped before it gets out of hand..

Oversight and a review board might rain in some of the possibilities of abuse, or nip some of their programs in the bud, before they get carried away. Like most things, if they have the assets they are very tempted to use those assets so, even with a real oversight board (not a handy rubber stamp) controlling them would still be very problematic under the best of circumstances.

The whole secrecy thing is so secret that the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing because at the time of the event it was deemed by the right hand the left had no need to know! Hey, I am serious! When in doubt rubber stamp anything top secret so they cannot be ridiculed (or worse) accused of not handling sensitive states secrets inappropriately...

reply to post by soulwaxer

One more: How is it possible that a young guy like Snowden had access to what he leaked - am I to believe that the most powerful government in the world and its intelligence agencies are that stupid?

In a word? Yes. They are. At least, they have been up to this point. I doubt that changes, and calling Military Intelligence an Oxymoron has more truth than ever. (The NSA being civilian in strict terms ...but not "quite"..as so much is in that world of puzzles and shadow)

Edward Snowden was involved in computer network design, administration and support. First for the NSA directly, then for a few years as an employee of the Central Intelligence Agency, then again as a contractor working for different contracting companies but always on NSA projects, as I've understood his brief life in the US intelligence community.

If anyone need wonder how lax security has been, remember Brad Manning. He took out truck loads (it literally would have been, if printed and packed in bankers boxes) without anyone ever knowing. It was publicity to the leaks themselves which really got anyone looking for him in the first place. Such was the state of awareness among sensitive-secret level information, and that's to a low level analyst.

As a Network admin and the guy helping to build and design the networks for some NSA operations? He would, by requirement of his work, have access to more than you'd likely ever see a single agent or case officer given. They wouldn't need "to know" what was in the databases. Snowden helped build them, so naturally, he had a unique perspective in a lax security environment on the inside.

Kryyptyk
reply to post by soulwaxer

 

"OK, but why are the MSM leading us to believe that he is acting alone?..."

If you seriously have to ask that question, you're in the wrong forum. :p

edit on 1-11-2013 by Kryyptyk because: (no reason given)

Exactly! Which is why my question wasn't serious.

Wrabbit2000
reply to post by soulwaxer

 

One more: How is it possible that a young guy like Snowden had access to what he leaked - am I to believe that the most powerful government in the world and its intelligence agencies are that stupid?

In a word? Yes. They are. At least, they have been up to this point. I doubt that changes, and calling Military Intelligence an Oxymoron has more truth than ever. (The NSA being civilian in strict terms ...but not "quite"..as so much is in that world of puzzles and shadow)

Edward Snowden was involved in computer network design, administration and support. First for the NSA directly, then for a few years as an employee of the Central Intelligence Agency, then again as a contractor working for different contracting companies but always on NSA projects, as I've understood his brief life in the US intelligence community.

If anyone need wonder how lax security has been, remember Brad Manning. He took out truck loads (it literally would have been, if printed and packed in bankers boxes) without anyone ever knowing. It was publicity to the leaks themselves which really got anyone looking for him in the first place. Such was the state of awareness among sensitive-secret level information, and that's to a low level analyst.

As a Network admin and the guy helping to build and design the networks for some NSA operations? He would, by requirement of his work, have access to more than you'd likely ever see a single agent or case officer given. They wouldn't need "to know" what was in the databases. Snowden helped build them, so naturally, he had a unique perspective in a lax security environment on the inside.

edit on 1-11-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

Thanks for your reply, but let me put it like this for a second: If you were leading a world-wide spying operation, and you pretty much had all the tax money you could wish for, wouldn't you just hire a Snowden, give him 500.000 dollars a year and have him coach one of your trusted people to do the real work?

But maybe you are right. Maybe the more powerful people are, the stupider. I've often seen this at a lower level. Here's an example:
I was in the emergency room 3 weeks ago with a couple broken bones and bleeding from my eyebrow. I work in training medical professionals, so I was focused on how the staff was treating me. I didn't have anything to wipe the blood flowing down the side of my face, and the only staff that spontaneously gave me something to stop the blood from flowing was the receptionist. The nurses were slightly less helpful, and the doctors were no help at all. This has nothing to do with a lack of compassion, but more with a training culture that is focused on results instead of humanity.

soulwaxer

boncho
Okay, I'm the first person to call people nutters but if he actually makes it to Germany without getting "lost" then something is going on. Like this is all song and dance for something.

What happens, world leaders all come together and complain about being spied on so they make up with hugs and a one world government?

Seriously. Something smells odd. Why did he even make it to Hong Kong/Moscow.

And why did Russia not say anything when a Canadian Naval Spy who was sentenced for leaking information about this program to them, before Snowden released it?

(RE:Other Thread)

edit on 1-11-2013 by boncho because: (no reason given)

While I agree anything is possible, the "spy world" is not James bond. There are very few James bondish agents out there or people they dispatch to "intercept" targets, this goes double, for first world countries, where the local authorities are well armed and coordinated.

As a private security installation technician for a company that did work for SAPs and SCIFs I had access to ALOT of data that I had no business having access to. At anytime I could have removed documents or walked out of the place with entire hard drives worth of data. At one time I was presented with documents showing every target on the Border Patrols list for certian patrol sectors, when I brought this to the attention of the commander of the facility, he said, "This is why we don't need security contractors here, we have 9mm security and that's all we need."

While it was funny and said in jest, it really shows the attitude of these facilities.