Is there any Evidence that the Ancient Alien Theorist have put forth that has not been Debunked?

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posted on Oct, 31 2013 @ 09:53 PM
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reply to post by Galileo400
 


Please reconsider the "religious text" (hebrew) angle.

Noah, Abraham, Moses, and many of the key fathers of that religion never existed.
The majority of the myths are stolen from Sumer, Babylon, and even the Indus Valley Vedic culture.

Sargon of Akkad, for instance, was stolen from for the story of Moses where part of the origin story of Sargon depicts him placed in a reed basket as a baby, floated down a river, and discovered.

Further, both Sargon, and his grandson Naram-Sin are stolen from and amalgamated into the biblical character Nimrod.

This is 22-23rd Century BC, some 1000 years before Moses was supposed to have existed.

From the Indus Valley Vedic Culture, we have the Brahman tradition where the very name Abraham is derived. Brahman = Abraham.
Moreover, we see further theft from the Vedic tradition in Semitic Identifying symbology:


The great flood of Noah is depicted in Sumerian and Babylonian text such that the origin of the Noah myth and theft of this story is readily apparent.

All this blatant theft, borrowing and adoption of stories, traditions, and symbologies from other cultures does nothing to support any historical veracity to any claims coming from biblical sources.
The source materials stolen from may contain independently verifiable historicity, but, very to nothing coming from the Hebrew/Jewish literature is historically factual beyond evidence of stolen goods.

Historically, the proto-Hebrews could very well be compared to semi-modern prejudices about Gypsies: They were filthy desert nomads that would show up, steal everything not nailed down, including stories from other cultures, loudly complain about being persecuted, move on and lie about where their stolen goods came from.

Thus, we have a cultural tradition and literature which is essentially a pack of lies.
Stories about the Garden of Eden and others can additionally be sourced to other much earlier cultures.

Ezekiel seeing a wheel in the sky?

It's a story sourced from a book that is mostly fabrications, lies, and stolen stories from other cultures.
How accurate or legitimate could it be?




edit on 10/31/2013 by AliceBleachWhite because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 31 2013 @ 09:58 PM
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Snarl
Galileo400
Wow! Summary:
* Megalithic Structures – Out

Now, what else?


Uhhh ... No! You just threw out the best clue to 'ancient' that we have ... based on what ... opinion?

Put it back ... right now ... or I quit.


Okay, I can put megalithic structures back in on a case by case basis, but I need some solid (pun intended) evidence to work with. Puma Punku was thoroughly debunked IMO. The Egyptian pyramids also seem to be man-made. What do you have?



posted on Oct, 31 2013 @ 10:28 PM
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AliceBleachWhite
reply to post by Galileo400
 

Please reconsider the "religious text" (hebrew) angle.

Ezekiel seeing a wheel in the sky?

You really know your stuff. I like the way you think and thank you for all your input. Regarding the religious texts, I was thinking about the encounters that people had with what they thought were the supernatural.

We have a modern example of this during and after WWII. (I need to pull this info up to be more accurate, but for now...) There is an island in the Pacific that the US military used as a base for cargo planes. There were people living on the island who were primitive and only knew life on the island. The airman interacted with the native people and gave them gifts of fabric and metal and food and who knows what. At the end of the war the military left. Decades later, someone visited the island and found these people had maintained the runway, built airplanes and a control tower out of bamboo. The control tower even had a tall antenna and a bamboo man inside. I imagine there were young people who were not born when the airplanes were there and so had never seen them. I'm sure even the firsthand accounts of their elders must have sounded fantastic. It's this kind of interaction I'm looking to explore from the Hebrew texts.

What do you think?



posted on Oct, 31 2013 @ 11:15 PM
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Galileo400

Snarl
Galileo400
Wow! Summary:
* Megalithic Structures – Out

Now, what else?


Uhhh ... No! You just threw out the best clue to 'ancient' that we have ... based on what ... opinion?

Put it back ... right now ... or I quit.


Okay, I can put megalithic structures back in on a case by case basis, but I need some solid (pun intended) evidence to work with. Puma Punku was thoroughly debunked IMO. The Egyptian pyramids also seem to be man-made. What do you have?

If I had something 'solid' (which I don't) I wouldn't post it here.


What is rarely addressed is the precision of the physical foundations of megalithic architecture. That precision is evident. People don't figure the same thing out, the same way, and apply it in different geographical locations. There may be some variance in the aesthetic/outward appeal, but the clue is in the foundation.

Once this is acknowledged, the paleos (because humans do truly represent pre-historic life and archaeologists are simply 'in denial' of the evidence every time it's shoved in their face) are gonna have to come up with a new story.

As

AliceBleachWhite
Noah, Abraham, Moses, and many of the key fathers of that religion never existed.
The majority of the myths are stolen from Sumer, Babylon, and even the Indus Valley Vedic culture.

aptly points out, there are common myths prevalent in human remnants worldwide. How'd they get there if there wasn't a culture which communicated globally? Very, very easy to discredit (and dismiss) a myth, because the evidence has gone missing (or maybe intentionally destroyed).

I wish AA would run a show on this angle, but it would take the 'fun' out of the show. I don't know about you, but I like being entertained, and 'knowing' would ruin the fun.



posted on Nov, 1 2013 @ 12:54 AM
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Galileo400

You really know your stuff. I like the way you think and thank you for all your input. Regarding the religious texts, I was thinking about the encounters that people had with what they thought were the supernatural.

We have a modern example of this during and after WWII. (I need to pull this info up to be more accurate, but for now...) There is an island in the Pacific that the US military used as a base for cargo planes. There were people living on the island who were primitive and only knew life on the island. The airman interacted with the native people and gave them gifts of fabric and metal and food and who knows what. At the end of the war the military left. Decades later, someone visited the island and found these people had maintained the runway, built airplanes and a control tower out of bamboo. The control tower even had a tall antenna and a bamboo man inside. I imagine there were young people who were not born when the airplanes were there and so had never seen them. I'm sure even the firsthand accounts of their elders must have sounded fantastic. It's this kind of interaction I'm looking to explore from the Hebrew texts.

What do you think?


You're talking about the Melanesian Cargo Cult.

A cargo cult is a kind of Melanesian millenarian movement encompassing a diverse range of practices and occurring in the wake of contact with the commercial networks of colonizing societies. The name derives from the apparent belief that various ritualistic acts will lead to a bestowing of material wealth ("cargo").
...
Contact with colonizing groups brought about a considerable transformation in the way indigenous peoples of Melanesia have thought about other societies. Early theories of cargo cults began from the assumption that practitioners simply failed to understand technology, colonization, or capitalist reform; in this model, cargo cults are a misunderstanding of the trade networks involved in resource distribution and an attempt to acquire such goods in the wake of interrupted trade. However, many of these practitioners actually focus on the importance of sustaining and creating new social relationships, with material relations being secondary

Since the late twentieth century, alternative theories have arisen. For example, some scholars, such as Kaplan and Lindstrom, focus on Europeans' characterization of these movements as a fascination with manufactured goods and what such a focus says about Western commodity fetishism. Others point to the need to see each movement as reflecting a particularized historical context, even eschewing the term "cargo cult" for them unless there is an attempt to elicit an exchange relationship from Europeans.


The Cargo Cult phenomenon, while interesting, as well as giving indication of some psychological elements associated in some cases with contact of a disproportionately primitive society with another of sufficiently greater advancement is more anomalous than found to be the norm.

While there's supporting evidence of a fetishistic fascination and totemic symbology associated with advanced technologies in other places like the African continent where indigenous peoples would manufacture jewelry and articles resembling rifles, pistols, Western culture musical instruments, and other sundries (they made non-functional guns and pistol shaped objects and jewelry and tried to imitate Western style clothing all out of sticks, and woven grasses as well as locally available gold and other metals because they thought it might give them similar 'power' as the Westerners that they came in early contact), there's really very little to no evidence for anything similar occurring with ancient prehistoric cultures.

It's a fun idea, but lies only within the realm of unsupported wild speculation that ancient cultures got anything from any sort of contact with a culture of any technological advancement.
There'd otherwise be more unambiguous recorded evidence as these fetishistic and totemic fascinations derived from cultural contamination tend to manifest fairly specifically in explicitly detailed accounting (full-sized bamboo airplanes with cockpit and spinning propeller), leaving very little left by way of imagination or interpretation.

If there were cultural contamination from space faring technological peoples, the impact would have been far more significant, unambiguous, and more sufficiently recorded, to which we have none such.
As it stands, AA adherents like to point out what they consider as evidence with an odd petroglyph, highly interpretive and stylized carvings and sculptures, and even one or two Egyptian hieroglyphs.
If anything AA adherents like to claim were even fractionally true, just the tiniest bit, these references wouldn't be so sparse, but, instead wildly prolific, extremely detailed, and entirely unambiguous.

Sorry, but, no Ancient Aliens

At best, as concession, there could be argument for DNA tampering some 7 Million years ago, or a Panspermia event even further back some Billions of years ago that created all life on Earth, but, as is, in the historical record, AA is totally busted.




posted on Nov, 1 2013 @ 01:25 AM
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Jchristopher5
reply to post by Galileo400
 


I personally see a number of things that have not been adequately debunked.

1. Certain megalithic structures defy rational explanation of their origin. Often times these monuments were quarried many miles away, and stone weighting hundreds of thousands of tons are somehow moved to the sites. These are often apparent where our historians believe that the society was primitive, lacking basic tools, including the wheel and lever. Yet, they constructed Punka Puna, the Great Pyramid, Stonehenge, and many others?

Every single one of those is explained. No one thinks these societies were primitive, that's a false assertion made by people wanting you to believe the crap they are shoveling is gold.


2. Our religious texts, including the Christian Bible, tell of strange "alien" encounters.

No, they don't. The rest of your points are the same, you making stuff up. The OP said what has NOT been debunked. You did not provide a single piece of evidence. Believe what you want, but this is a thread about what AA has discussed and if anything specific is not debunked.



posted on Nov, 1 2013 @ 01:31 AM
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ABNARTY
reply to post by Galileo400
 


I guess I would we would have to decide what 'debunked' really means.

I see it as the AA theory claims X but the debunkers can prove X did not happen. I have not seen much of that. Instead the debunkers claim Y or Z seems more probable. Which I do not have a problem with but to claim a probability of Y or Z proves X patently false does not make sense.

Disclaimer: I am not ready to buy off on space aliens building the pyramids but neither am I ready to buy off on dudes pulling a 100 ton granite block 20 miles with some ropes because it is such a great idea.

No. Debunked means debunking that aliens HAD to have done it. AA whole premise is that X is the truth because Y and Z could not have happened. As soon as you show Y or Z could have happened, X is no longer necessary and thus AA is debunked.

It's like me saying Aliens must exist because my chicken was baked, and an oven can't bake chicken. As soon as it's proven an oven can bake chicken, the whole idea falls apart. Did aliens come in and use some special raygun and cook my chicken? Who knows. The idea that they HAD to have because the chicken is cooked is debunked though. Personally, I will think oven and not alien raygun when I see baked chicken, others are free to think alien raygun if they want.



posted on Nov, 1 2013 @ 01:37 AM
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Alienboy2012
reply to post by Galileo400
 


How the Dogon ppl of Mali who are believed to be of Egyptian origins knew that Sirius had 2 companion stars A & B when there was NO modern equiptment available to confirm that claim, they have maintained this from 3200bc. The Dogon's stated that the Nommo who arrived in sky ships told them they originate from the Sirius system and in turn told them about the 2 (unknown at the time) stars A & B) A french anthroplogist studied the Dogan from 1931 - 56 and was blown away by how a tribe of ppl who possess no modern equipment knew the position and rotational times for unseen and unknown stars..

This is just one. 2, How Lt. Col. Corso (The Day After Roswell) named names, dates & times & was no one named has ever come fwd. to say he is liar.


The simple answer is they didn't. They were told by Marcel Griaule. The Dogon people can't even agree as to what sigu tolo is.

Though they do speak about sigu tolo [which is what Griaule claimed the Dogon called Sirius] they disagree completely with each other as to which star is meant; for some it is an invisible star that should rise to announce the sigu [festival], for another it is Venus that, through a different position, appears as sigu tolo. All agree, however, that they learned about the star from Griaule.

Source:
"Dogon Restudied: A Field Evaluation of the Work of Marcel Griaule". Current Anthropology 32 (2): 139–67. doi:10.1086/203932. JSTOR 2743641.



posted on Nov, 1 2013 @ 01:40 AM
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AthlonSavage
The title of your thread is uniformed and therefore is misleading and stupid. There is a plethora of stuff that hasn't been successfully debunked.

How about some examples, since there are so many.



posted on Nov, 1 2013 @ 01:45 AM
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reply to post by Galileo400
 


Being an AA-theorist, I have learned that there are lots of different opinions, ideas and interpretations on pretty much everything that this theory is theorizing about. Thus the theory about the animals (that we today call “Dinosaurs”) which i am about to present, is entirely my personal view on the subject. Also. My views are basically based on my personal interpretations and on several different ancient texts.

You should be aware of that I do not accept any of the political correct mainstream theories and their timelines, even if they are using thousands of their super intelligent scientists that they keep on their payrolls , to back them up.

You wanted stuff that was credible. Whether this stuff meets such a criteria, is not up to me to decide. You also wanted stuff that was un-debunked. The latter I can’t know for sure as I though mainstream had pretty much debunked everything regarding this theory. However. It is my view that none of the existent theories on all this have any proof of anything either. Thus the aa-theory is neither worse nor better than the others in this regard. I therefore put it out here so you all can read and decide for yourself.

However. Before I continue, it is important to understand that ancient texts did not have a common name on those animals that mainstream scientists refer to as dinosaurs. To them, these animals was just another animal. I know that fossils and bone remains of all kind of extinct animals are unearthed around the world, even as I write this post. There is therefore no reason to deny that a multitude of strange and enormous animals once existed. I do however question the establishment and their methods and how they date those animal remains, as I have learned that they in most cases can’t date the remains itself, but rather the rocks or the layer of rocks that are surrounding them. There are also found fossil imprints of human footprints together with footprints of dinosaurs. That is full proof evidence that these animals lived in the same time as human beings did. The fact that the establishment are trying to ridicule and hide away these kind of evidence, adds to my theory that all mainstream theories on these kind of subjects , either has a political agenda or a religious one. Thus we can always be certain that truth always has low prority in these theories.

So having said that, I am now presenting a description of a few animals that various ancient texts are telling us about. The description of those animals are basically taken from the ‘Legends of the jews’ and ‘The book of Job’ , as they gives the best descriptions. Even though there certainly was lots of strange looking animals (dinosaurs) back in these days , these texts has only given us a description of the largest of them. Thus we have a description of one giant animals that used to live in the sea, one giant bird, and a couple of giant land based animals that was rooming the earth in those days.

These animals are: The Behemoth, The Ziz, The Reem and The Leviathan.

According to ancient texts these animals was created on the fifth and on the sixth day of creation along with the multitude of other animals that was created in this time period. The fifth generation human beings , The Adamas (later Cain’ites and Seth’ites) was created on the sixth day. According to my research this took place some time between 17-25 thousand years ago, at most. The establishment claims that these animals are insanly 65 million years old.

Also according to ancient texts, most of the largest of these ancient animal species ,was hunted down and killed by the aliens themselves, as they became a threat to all the other creations. However. A few of them survived and lived even unto the days of king David.

“Behemoth is known as the King of all mammals while Leviathan is the King of all fish and Ziz is the King of all birds in the air. Unlike all of today's animals, all three of these supernatural animals are the only animals man cannot control. They can only be controlled and killed off by the One who created them in the first place.”

So. What could the dinosaur-names of these animals have been ? Well, if these animals were dinosaurs , here is what kind of dinosaurs they might have been.

The name Behemoth was first used before 1400 B.C. and the way it is described in the Book of Job , it could very well be a Brachiosaurus. Leviathan was also first used before 1400 B.C. and because of the description of it as given in Job , it could very well be describing a Kronosaurus. The Reem , the way it is described might be a Monoclonius (single horned dinosaur like Triceratops). The Ziz belonging to the Pteranodon’s was probably a Quetzalcoatlus, some sort of raptor or a Rhamphorhynchus.

Part two continues in next post
edit on 1-11-2013 by helius because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2013 @ 01:51 AM
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Leviathan (Taninim)

First of all. The Hebrew word "Tanniyn" is another word for Leviathan and are pronounced ta-neen. It means (dragon). But let’s first take a look at the description of this animal as described in the book of Job.

“Can you pull in the leviathan with a fishhook or tie down his tongue with a rope? Can you put a cord through his nose or pierce his jaw with a hook? Will he keep begging you for mercy? Will he speak to you with gentle words? Will he make an agreement with you for you to take him as your slave for life? Can you make a pet of him like a bird or put him on a leash for your girls? Will traders barter for him? Will they divide him up among the merchants? Can you fill his hide with harpoons or his head with fishing spears? If you lay a hand on him, you will remember the struggle and never do it again! Any hope of subduing him is false; the mere sight of him is overpowering. No-one is fierce enough to rouse him. Who then is able to stand against me? Who has a claim against me that I must pay? Everything under heaven belongs to me. I will not fail to speak of his limbs, his strength and his graceful form. Who can strip off his outer coat? Who would approach him with a bridle? Who dares open the doors of his mouth, ringed about with his fearsome teeth? His back has rows of shields tightly sealed together; each is so close to the next that no air can pass between. They are joined fast to one another; they cling together and cannot be parted. His snorting throws out flashes of light; his eyes are like the rays of dawn. Firebrands stream from his mouth; sparks of fire shoot out. Smoke pours from his nostrils as from a boiling pot over a fire of reeds. His breath sets coals ablaze, and flames dart from his mouth. Strength resides in his neck; dismay goes before him. The folds of his flesh are tightly joined; they are firm and immovable. His chest is hard as rock, hard as a lower millstone. When he rises up, the mighty are terrified; they retreat before his thrashing. The sword that reaches him has no effect, nor does the spear or the dart or the javelin. Iron he treats like straw and bronze like rotten wood. Arrows do not make him flee, slingstones are like chaff to him. A club seems to him but a piece of straw, he laughs at the rattling of the lance. His undersides are jagged potsherds, leaving a trail in the mud like a threshing-sledge. He makes the depths churn like a boiling cauldron and stirs up the sea like a pot of ointment. Behind him he leaves a glistening wake; one would think the deep had white hair. Nothing on earth is his equal— a creature without fear. He looks down on all that are haughty; he is king over all that are proud.”

“In Psalm 74 Yahweh is said to "break the heads of Leviathan in pieces" before giving his flesh to the people of the wilderness; in Psalm 104 Yahweh is praised for having made all things, including Leviathan; and in Isaiah 27:1 he is called the "wriggling serpent" who will be killed at the end of time.”

Note. The end of time is in my view not referring to some sort of dooms day scenario, but rather to the time when the aliens had completed their colonization project. (The end of time of their mission)

Later Jewish sources describe Leviathan as a dragon who lives over the Sources of the Deep and who, along with the male land-monster Behemoth, will be served up to the righteous at the end of time. The Jewish Midrash claims that the alien colonists originally produced a male and a female leviathan, but lest in multiplying the species should destroy the world, he slew the female, reserving her flesh for the banquet that will be given to the righteous on the advent of the Messiah.

Rashi’s commentary on Genesis repeats the tradition: "God created the great sea monsters - Taninim. According to legend this refers to the Leviathan and its mate. God created a male and female Leviathan, then killed the female and salted it for the righteous, for if the Leviathans were to procreate the world could not stand before them."

The enormous size of the Leviathan is described by R. Johanan, from whom proceeded nearly all the myths concerning this monster:

"Once we went in a ship and saw a fish which put his head out of the water. He had horns upon which was written: 'I am one of the meanest creatures that inhabit the sea. I am three hundred miles in length, and enter this day into the jaws of the Leviathan. When the Leviathan is hungry he sends forth from his mouth a heat so great as to make all the waters of the deep boil, and if he would put his head into paradise no living creature could endure the odor of him. His abode is the Mediterranean sea and the waters of the Jordan fall into his mouth . In a legend recorded in the Midrash it is stated that the fish which swallowed Jonah narrowly avoided being eaten by the Leviathan, which eats one whale each day.”

The body of the Leviathan, especially his eyes, possesses great illuminating power. This was the opinion of R. Eliezer, who, in the course of a voyage in company with R. Joshua, explained to the latter, when frightened by the sudden appearance of a brilliant light, that it probably proceeded from the eyes of the Leviathan. He referred his companion to the words of Job "By his neesings a light doth shine, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning" . However, in spite of his supernatural strength, the leviathan is afraid of a small worm called "kilbit", which clings to the gills of large fish and kills them.

In is also said that, ultimately, God will slaughter the Leviathan, which is described as having "mighty fins" (and, therefore, a kosher fish, not an inedible snake or crocodile), and it will be served as a sumptuous banquet for all the righteous in Heaven.

Whatever the Leviathan was, it was still alive at the time of the flood and feasted on the remains of the animals that drowned in it. The sea dwelling Leviathan even lived after the flood. In a time when marine travel was increasing. The next scripture speaks of Leviathan in the days of sailing.

Psalm 104 KJV 26."There the ships go to and fro, and the leviathan, which you formed to frolic there."

According to this passage, Leviathan co-existed with man. Not in the time when they were primitive and ignorant cavemans, but rather in the time when they were capable of building ships and other sea worthy vessels.

Psalm 104 NASB 26."There the ships move along, And Leviathan, which You have formed to sport in it."
Isaiah 27 KJV 1."In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea."

Part Three will follow in NeXT post



posted on Nov, 1 2013 @ 01:54 AM
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The word "Leviathan" comes from the Hebrew word meaning "one who twist and coils," or "the winding one."

“Leviathan is a fish monster in form of a coiling, serpentine eel-like fish that serves as one of the gatekeepers of Hell, with eyes and scales that glow and illuminate from many miles around.”

“Leviathan makes his home in the Mediterranean, where when he gets hungry, he churns up the waters with his hot, fiery breath to make them boil.”

“The ruler over the sea-animals is leviathan. With all the other fishes he was made on the fifth day. Originally he was created male and female like all the other animals. But when it appeared that a pair of these monsters might annihilate the whole earth with their united strength, God killed the female. So enormous is leviathan that to quench his thirst he needs all the water that flows from the Jordan into the sea. His food consists of the fish which go between his jaws of their own accord. When he is hungry, a hot breath blows from his nostrils, and it makes the waters of the great sea seething hot. Formidable though behemot, the other monster, is, he feels insecure until he is certain that leviathan has satisfied his thirst. The only thing that can keep him in check is the stickleback, a little fish which was created for the purpose, and of which he stands in great awe. But leviathan is more than merely large and strong; he is wonderfully made besides. His fins radiate brilliant light, the very sun is obscured by it, and also his eyes shed such splendor that frequently the sea is illuminated suddenly by it. No wonder that this marvellous beast is the plaything of God, in whom He takes His pastime.There is but one thing that makes leviathan repulsive, his foul smell: which is so strong that if it penetrated thither, it would render Paradise itself an impossible abode. “

“The real purpose of leviathan is to be served up as a dainty to the pious in the world to come. The female was put into brine as soon as she was killed, to be preserved against the time when her flesh will be needed. The male is destined to offer a delectable sight to all beholders before he is consumed. When his last hour arrives, God will summon the angels to enter into combat with the monster. But no sooner will leviathan cast his glance at them than they will flee in fear and dismay from the field of battle. They will return to the charge with swords, but in vain, for his scales can turn back steel like straw. They will be equally unsuccessful when they attempt to kill him by throwing darts and slinging stones; such missiles will rebound without leaving the least impression on his body. Disheartened, the angels will give up the combat, and God will command leviathan and behemot to enter into a duel with each other. The issue will be that both will drop dead, behemot slaughtered by a blow of leviathan's fins, and leviathan killed by a lash of behemot's tail. From the skin of leviathan God will construct tents to shelter companies of the pious while they enjoy the dishes made of his flesh. The amount assigned to each of the pious will be in proportion to his deserts, and none will envy or begrudge the other his better share. What is left of leviathan's skin will be stretched out over Jerusalem as a canopy, and the light streaming from it will illumine the whole world, and what is left of his flesh after the pious have appeased their appetite, will be distributed among the rest of men, to carry on traffic therewith.”

Behemoth

Different texts passages describing Behemoth.

“ Behold now the behemoth that I have made with you; he eats grass like cattle. Behold now his strength is in his loins and his power is in the navel of his belly. His tail sways like a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are knit together. His limbs are as strong as copper, his bones as a load of iron. His is the first of God's ways; [only] his Maker can draw His sword [against him]. For the mountains bear food for him, and all the beasts of the field play there. Does he lie under the shadows, in the cover of the reeds and the swamp? Do the shadows cover him as his shadow? Do the willows of the brook surround him? Behold, he plunders the river, and [he] does not harden; he trusts that he will draw the Jordan into his mouth. With His eyes He will take him; with snares He will puncture his nostrils.”

“In Tammuz, at the time of the summer solstice, when the strength of behemot is at its height, he roars so loud that all the animals hear it, and for a whole year they are affrighted and timid, and their acts become less ferocious than their nature is.”

“God will command leviathan and behemot to enter into a duel with each other. The issue will be that both will drop dead, behemot slaughtered by a blow of leviathan's fins, and leviathan killed by a lash of behemot's tail.”

“Behemot matches leviathan in strength, and he had to be prevented, like leviathan, from multiplying and increasing, else the world could not have continued to exist; after God had created him male and female, He at once deprived him of the desire to propagate his kind. He is so monstrous that he requires the produce of a thousand mountains for his daily food. All the water that flows through the bed of the Jordan in a year suffices him exactly for one gulp. It therefore was necessary to give him one stream entirely for his own use, a stream flowing forth from Paradise, called Yubal. Behemot, too, is destined to be served to the pious as an appetizing dainty, but before they enjoy his flesh, they will be permitted to view the mortal combat between leviathan and behemot, as a reward for having denied themselves the pleasures of the circus and its gladiatorial contests.”

Part four will continue in NeXT post



posted on Nov, 1 2013 @ 01:56 AM
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Ziz (Sekwi,Renanin)

Different text passages describing the Ziz.

“And the bird monster Ziz makes his home in the sky where the spreading of his wingspan is known to block the sun. Ziz resembles the mythical griffin.”

“Again, in Tishri, at the time of the autumnal equinox, the great bird ziz flaps his wings and utters his cry, so that the birds of prey, the eagles and the vultures, blench, and they fear to swoop down upon the others and annihilate them in their greed.”

“As leviathan is the king of fishes, so the ziz is appointed to rule over the birds. His name comes from the variety of tastes his flesh has; it tastes like this zeh, and like that zeh, the ziz is as monstrous of size as leviathan himself. His ankles rest on the earth, and his head reaches to the very sky.”

“It once happened that travellers on a vessel noticed a bird. As he stood in the water, it merely covered his feet, and his head knocked against the sky. The onlookers thought the water could not have any depth at that point, and they prepared to take a bath there. A heavenly voice warned them: "Alight not here! Once a carpenter's axe slipped from his hand at this spot, and it took it seven years to touch bottom." The bird the travellers saw was none other than the ziz. His wings are so huge that unfurled they darken the sun. They protect the earth against the storms of the south; without their aid the earth would not be able to resist the winds blowing thence. Once an egg of the ziz fell to the ground and broke. The fluid from it flooded sixty cities, and the shock crushed three hundred cedars. Fortunately such accidents do not occur frequently. As a rule the bird lets her eggs slide gently into her nest. This one mishap was due to the fact that the egg was rotten, and the bird cast it away carelessly. The ziz has another name, Renanin, because he is the celestial singer. On account of his relation to the heavenly regions he is also called Sekwi, the seer, and, besides, he is called "son of the nest," because his fledgling birds break away from the shell without being hatched by the mother bird; they spring directly from the nest, as it were. Like leviathan, so ziz is a delicacy to be served to the pious at the end of time, to compensate them for the privations which abstaining from the unclean fowls imposed upon them.”

The Reem

Different text passages describing the Reem.

“Leviathan, ziz, and behemot are not the only monsters; there are many others, and marvellous ones, like the reem, a giant animal, of which only one couple, male and female, is in existence. Had there been more, the world could hardly have maintained itself against them. The act of copulation occurs but once in seventy years between them, for God has so ordered it that the male and female reem are at opposite ends of the earth, the one in the east, the other in the west. The act of copulation results in the death of the male. He is bitten by the female and dies of the bite. The female becomes pregnant and remains in this state for no less than twelve years. At the end of this long period she gives birth to twins, a male and a female. The year preceding her delivery she is not able to move. She would die of hunger, were it not that her own spittle flowing copiously from her mouth waters and fructifies the earth near her, and causes it to bring forth enough for her maintenance. For a whole year the animal can but roll from side to side, until finally her belly bursts, and the twins issue forth. Their appearance is thus the signal for the death of the mother reem. She makes room for the new generation, which in turn is destined to suffer the same fate as the generation that went before. Immediately after birth, the one goes eastward and the other westward, to meet only after the lapse of seventy years, propagate themselves, and perish. A traveller who once saw a reem one day old described its height to be four parasangs, and the length of its head one parasang and a half. Its horns measure one hundred ells, and their height is a great deal more.”

“The “unicorn,” mentioned nine times in the KJV Bible, is the Hebrew word “Re-em.” The Septuagint (Greek translation of the Old Testament) translated it “Monokeros” (one-horn) which was used in Bibles until the 19th century when Akkadian and Ugaritic records were found that mentioned the “Re-em” being hunted like a wild ox. However, their early pictograph for the “Re-em” shows an animal head with three horns, like a Triceratops. In Psalm 92:10 the “Re-em” has but one horn, while the language or Deuteronomy 33:17 implies two horns. Many people have theorized that “Re-em” might be a Monoclonius (single horned dinosaur like Triceratops). In Job 39:9-12 God asks, “Will the unicorn be willing to serve you, or abide by your crib? Can you bind the unicorn with his band in the furrow? or will he harrow the valleys after you? Wilt you trust him, because his strength is great?”

This passage shows that the unicorn, whatever it was, could not be tamed to be used in farming, as an ox could.
“In his classic work Naturalis Historia the first century author Pliny the Elder described “an exceedingly wild beast called the Monoceros [one-horned]. …It makes a deep lowing noise, and one black horn two cubits long projects from the middle of its forehead.” He describes it as like an elephant in length, but with much shorter legs.”

“One animal, the reem, Noah could not take into the ark. On account of its huge size it could not find room therein. Noah therefore tied it to the ark, and it ran on behind”.

From the Midrash Tehillim :

Save me from the lion’s mouth, for you have answered me from the horns of reem. R.Huna bar idi said “While David was shepherding the flock he came upon the reem asleep in the wilderness and supposing it was a mountain he climbed up on it and continued shepherding.The reem upon waking stood up and David rode upon its horns until he was as high as the heavens. At that moment david said Master of the universe, if you bring me down from this reem, I will build you a temple, one hundred cubits high like the horns of a reem. What did the holy one blessed be he do for him? He summoned a curtain lion and when the reem saw the lion he was afraid of it and crouched down before the lion, because the lion is king of all animals and beasts. When David saw the lion he too was afraid of it so the holy one, blessed be he summoned a gazelle and when the lion sprang away after it, David descended and went his way. Therefore it is said. Save me from the lions mouth, for you have answered me from the horns of reems. (Some say that david measured the horn lengthwise while others say that he measured it around its circumference)

According this text, the Reem should thus have still been alive at the time of King David. Around 1300 years after the great flood, some 11000 years ago, after my timeline.



posted on Nov, 1 2013 @ 02:00 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Nov, 1 2013 @ 02:39 AM
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AthlonSavage
reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 


you go find them ya goddam lazy...


There aren't any. As I thought, you can't name even one.



posted on Nov, 1 2013 @ 03:05 AM
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Galileo400

Panic2k11
reply to post by Galileo400
 




Did ALL the dinosaurs die 65 MYA?
It depends on how you define dinosaur...

You are absolutely correct. I like to kid around with people by referring to chickens as dinosaurs. Also, dinosaur eggs! Seriously though, I was going for the classic stegosaurus (seen in carvings), big theropods, and long necks (seen in paintings).

You know, archeologist found a T-Rex in the western US that had soft tissue inside the bones. They were stunned. How could that survive 65 Million years? I say, maybe it didn't? Maybe it's only a few thousand years old?


They found fossilised soft tissue (though media reports tended to gloss over this). Normally soft tissue decays before fossilisation take places, so it's quite rare. Nonetheless, there was nothing to suggst it was less than 65my old.



posted on Nov, 1 2013 @ 03:20 AM
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AndyMayhew

Galileo400

Panic2k11
reply to post by Galileo400
 




Did ALL the dinosaurs die 65 MYA?
It depends on how you define dinosaur...

You are absolutely correct. I like to kid around with people by referring to chickens as dinosaurs. Also, dinosaur eggs! Seriously though, I was going for the classic stegosaurus (seen in carvings), big theropods, and long necks (seen in paintings).

You know, archeologist found a T-Rex in the western US that had soft tissue inside the bones. They were stunned. How could that survive 65 Million years? I say, maybe it didn't? Maybe it's only a few thousand years old?


They found fossilised soft tissue (though media reports tended to gloss over this). Normally soft tissue decays before fossilisation take places, so it's quite rare. Nonetheless, there was nothing to suggst it was less than 65my old.


No, actually they found soft tissue that was stretchy and when pulled it stretched and returned to its original shape. They found collagen (a protein). They were able to determine protein sequences which should be impossible. It was 100% not fossilized, hence the amazement. The rebuttal has been what she found was not from the t-rex, and was modern contamination, such as pond scum. There are problems with the rebuttal though, as it only addresses the earliest tests performed and the later tests rule pond scum or modern contamination out.



posted on Nov, 1 2013 @ 03:57 AM
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reply to post by AliceBleachWhite
 


Have you seen the pharaoh sculptures? many of them are not african or arabic. some of them look tibetan, korean, japanese, indian and caucasian, as welll as hebrew and african. the near and middle eastern countries, had royal wedding exchanges. you can see this tradition discussed in the letters of seti I, as well, as other places. so it's no surprise that artifacts and religious concepts had cross references. heck there's even evidence that solomon engaged in the religions of his countless wives as well, until he went back to judaism.

as far as the sumerian and akkadian texts being in the bible: you realize, these are the places where semites derive from. it's their history. one is just the mesopotamian royal version and the other, the egyptian-habiru version.

edit on 1-11-2013 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2013 @ 05:39 AM
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Defy debunked? Is it because a 3 hour video 'claiming' to debunk the Ancient Alien theory has made you think its been debunked?

It's not been debunked at all, and there is plenty of threads on here that go with the Ancient Alien theory which haven't been debunked:

stargates are real

Ancient Aliens Of China

Ancient Anomalies and Art

And plenty more on ATS too.

Debunked is a strong word to use



posted on Nov, 1 2013 @ 05:43 AM
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skyblueworld
Defy debunked? Is it because a 3 hour video 'claiming' to debunk the Ancient Alien theory has made you think its been debunked?

It's not been debunked at all, and there is plenty of threads on here that go with the Ancient Alien theory which haven't been debunked:

stargates are real

Ancient Aliens Of China

Ancient Anomalies and Art

And plenty more on ATS too.

Debunked is a strong word to use


I agree, Stargates must be real, how else would our reptilian overlords make it here?

On second thought, debunked is pretty much perfect. Show me a working Stargate and I will gladly change my mind. Since they are real that shouldn't be too tough.





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