Does Resurrected = Born Again?, and does one have to be Resurrected first, before one can receive th

reply to post by Joecroft


There's a widely held lie (dressed as truth) that 'christians' love to wave about (I should know - I witnessed it first hand for 30 years)...the lie consists of the twisted notion that emminent humility is shining from thier every word (vouchsafe the convenience of a sin-'out')...in practice, it is classic swift&shift psychology (that not even christians are aware of - and this is not only reserved for xtians, it applies to all who are blindingly unaware of the way they treat situations-conversations)...however, not everyone has the magic fallback book, with the 25point power rating avatar to conveniently whip out when the going gets tough...and BAM, you're trumped (in my head)...

Converse to this...I find 'real' christians have no need to classify, sort, relegate according to fancifully constructed interpretations of what they think (or what the majority accepts as true) in the realm of real life...they're too busy putting words into action...because anything before that...is just a psychological validation to themselves of whether they belong, or not...

If I fell into any category, it would be the second...although, I love a good debate...

Å99

akushla99
vethumanbeing
akushla99
Rex282

reply to post by akushla99

Rex282
Joe I'm not a "christian" either.(thank you God!!) however I'm am very qualified to answer your OP...more on your response later.

Akushla99
From experience the velvet rope keeper is only admitting ideational complicity...and it's thier doof doof club - apparently doesn't matter what 'leave-stamps' you got either...ergo, you cannot be admitted - good luck chatting up the owner at the door...Å99

Veteran EsseneBeing
And that would be you, wearing the badge (microscopic sandwich sign) "upholder of the grace, wisdom and SEVERITY of the proprietors wiggly moment to moment intentions that can change at A WHIM). Thats why you are the one checking the IDs. You can determine the false admonitions, or at least get them to beg to be put at the END OF THE LINE to start again the process of entrance (velvet rope dividals are there for a reason separate the Kurds from the Sway). No One Chats ME Up.

Akushla99
Haha...except, I didn't set the parameters of this little cabal club up...I'm sure I'd be refused employment under the terms (cos somehow I don't fit into the franchise)...despite holding a lifetime membership I had no conscious choice in when it was conferred by St John the officiating water-trickler...that box is ticked (not that I care whether it matters)...nor when I was 'confirmed' - 7 YO monkey suit (dressed for God in mamas finest)...box ticked...(not that I think it matters)...but the cabal likes moving the goalposts/velvet rope and citing 'wrong footwear, sorry'...I care little for childish maze games...the same DJ plays the same music down the road next week...or I'll just go to the jazz club, tonite.

Its not a 'Hot Yoga Studio (newest craze)' or A Cabalistic Center for numbers interpretation of the Hebraic type (celebs only). ITS A COMEDY club. Rockstar prophets or evangelicals audition as comedians, then in front of a club crawl crowd (NEVER JAZZY) audience(5 drink minimum, 10 dollar cover charge). I thought I made this perfectly clear. No DJ maybe JC as emcee, the only music would be taped gospel choir music (unless I could persuade a live/living S. Babtist choir to enter a house of comedy that serves alchohol 'in the clouds'). This is no franchise its privately owned by yours truely in virtual reality, and in so being I need no VETTING (as I am the one that encompasses the 'notion'. I have an extermination, sanitation crew comes in every Monday. Your position at the door is a legacy job, handed down to you from your forefratters.
I had no idea John the B was given sainthood, just for washing the masses (neat trick to get them to bathe at least once). Where have I been? Cornering you into playing childish maze (WORD) games, ME? never. Velvet ropes get longer, only because line lengthens. You were confirmed at 7 wearing a monkey suit (that was underhanded) unless it was Oct.31st.
Fakery using badges? Posse badge is not a fake, its a STANCE unless "WE DONT NEED NO STINKIN BADGES". (Walter Hustons nemisis-the Rio Grand?" applies.

reply to post by akushla99

Originally posted by Akushla99
There's a widely held lie (dressed as truth) that 'christians' love to wave about (I should know - I witnessed it first hand for 30 years)...the lie consists of the twisted notion that emminent humility is shining from thier every word (vouchsafe the convenience of a sin-'out')...in practice, it is classic swift&shift psychology (that not even christians are aware of - and this is not only reserved for xtians, it applies to all who are blindingly unaware of the way they treat situations-conversations)...however, not everyone has the magic fallback book, with the 25point power rating avatar to conveniently whip out when the going gets tough...and BAM, you're trumped (in my head)...

Converse to this...I find 'real' christians have no need to classify, sort, relegate according to fancifully constructed interpretations of what they think (or what the majority accepts as true) in the realm of real life...they're too busy putting words into action...because anything before that...is just a psychological validation to themselves of whether they belong, or not...

If I fell into any category, it would be the second...although, I love a good debate...

Thank you…

I’m starting to see your perspective a bit more clearly now.

And believe it not (no pun intended lol) but I actually agree with you on the second category. Because IMO Christians have a habit of ignoring certain contradictions in the biblical texts, which in turn tends to border on cognitive dissonance.

But before we go any further here…did you read my entire conversation with Enochwasright, in the link in my OP…? because I outlined my stance regarding some of my beliefs there…And my position is pretty unique, to say the least.

- JC

reply to post by vethumanbeing


So...I am the Lenny Bruce being refused into that comedy club...where's the laughter (love) when we're not even on stage? Not even admitted entrance? Not a 'real' comic? He he...if I'm in the audience, I'm a heckler...well, dress me in a chicken suit and call me Bugs...

I'm not taking any of it very seriously, am I?...bad boy bubby!...and the seriousness is a problem for me..., when PAPA is the averred big cohuna - without match...everything else devolves into US and THEM, in the sand-pit..."my corner of the sand-pit, my tonka trucks, my spade and shovel"...kindergarten material...he he

Å99

Joecroft
reply to post by akushla99

 

Originally posted by Akushla99
There's a widely held lie (dressed as truth) that 'christians' love to wave about (I should know - I witnessed it first hand for 30 years)...the lie consists of the twisted notion that emminent humility is shining from thier every word (vouchsafe the convenience of a sin-'out')...in practice, it is classic swift&shift psychology (that not even christians are aware of - and this is not only reserved for xtians, it applies to all who are blindingly unaware of the way they treat situations-conversations)...however, not everyone has the magic fallback book, with the 25point power rating avatar to conveniently whip out when the going gets tough...and BAM, you're trumped (in my head)...

Converse to this...I find 'real' christians have no need to classify, sort, relegate according to fancifully constructed interpretations of what they think (or what the majority accepts as true) in the realm of real life...they're too busy putting words into action...because anything before that...is just a psychological validation to themselves of whether they belong, or not...

If I fell into any category, it would be the second...although, I love a good debate...

Thank you…

I’m starting to see your perspective a bit more clearly now.

And believe it not (no pun intended lol) but I actually agree with you on the second category. Because IMO Christians have a habit of ignoring certain contradictions in the biblical texts, which in turn tends to border on cognitive dissonance.

But before we go any further here…did you read my entire conversation with Enochwasright, in the link in my OP…? because I outlined my stance regarding some of my beliefs there…And my position is pretty unique, to say the least.

- JC

Cheers JC

I did read the link...and I think you'll admit (from what you might glean - and remembering that uniqueness is a good quality [We are unique]), my stance is far from mainstream...however, I follow by action...words bore me (I'm good at 'em) but they are words, not 'doing'...might be the reason not many words are attributable directly to the 25pointer BAM! card...stuff was just...done...

Again cheers
It's been fun

Å99

Joecroft
reply to post by VHB:Essenebeing

Vethumanbeing
Its all about the mindblowing Joe, sort of like if aliens exsist, maybe God does as well? Im not sure but Im pulling the drawstrings in OH Maybe God is a Genetisist, Maybe there is no God perse, just a plasma factory that is continually reinventing itself as to understand ITSELF. Who Knows? but is it that serious to hurt the heart over (seat of the soul you know). Im seeing Rants by others (for reasons unknown let it go).
“Its all about the mindblowing Joe”

Joecroft
LOLFunny…I see myself as just a humble student, passing through…

That is very unselfserving as you are exactly the opposite of nodding hello (no introduction/ID waved and passing through a darkened doorway unnoticed).

Vethumanbeing
…sort of like if aliens exsist, maybe God does as well?

Joecroft
Seeing as you have shown such promise, intellectual skills, a finely attuned mind to the mysteries of the universe, and a knowledge and vocabulary, that is second to none, I will spare you the wrath of Khan…lolBut I must point out, that what you have written above is incorrect. I was simply using the “Aliens exist” motif, as an example of that which is one minute unknown, and then can become known. For example, Aliens abducting you in the middle of the night etc…With the emphasis being on the analogy, of something becoming known.

Your fault then. I see the word 'Alien' and I go on HIGH ALERT and the abstract non linear thought process explodes into potencials (was Jesus an Alien? Mary and Joseph, their baby was a test tube product off planet implanted and concieved on Earth, Cheneys a Lizard in human diguise). I understand your analogy; one minute, darkness then poof "enlightment" and everything you ever thought was true is not, washed by a pure rationalizion, particular to your individual souls progression; and that may be confirmation that no god exists or a belief in God as creator, but Im contradicting myself, enlightenment confirms a positive/a Creator, not a base negative, the abyss-mal no thing, humans accidental byproduct of no intellegent design at all.

Joecroft
The parallel that’s being drawn, is that the Holy Spirit is at some point unknown, until one receives it. This has nothing to do with me thinking that Aliens, are somehow proving Gods existence lol, but I guess it was an easy mistake to make, so I wont go jumping down your throat, unlike some people I could mention lol Just had to clear that one up…

Holy Spirit never forces itself down ones throat, it has to be invited to come for a casual visit, or a free entrance ticket was given to it (by a mutual friend of the club), no cover charge or drink minimum required, but when it shows up LOOK OUT.

akushla99
reply to post by The Essene that is a veteran

Akushla99
So...I am the Lenny Bruce being refused into that comedy club...where's the laughter (love) when we're not even on stage? Not even admitted entrance? Not a 'real' comic? He he...if I'm in the audience, I'm a heckler...well, dress me in a chicken suit and call me Bugs.

You were frisked at the door, and all of your tomatoes and eggs were given to the "God Saves" Mission (soup kitchen one block down Madison St.) Unarmed how can you 'physically' heckle, the laughter will drown out your voice. Id love to see Lenny Bruce and George Carlin in a comedy mashup on stage, their current addresses as of now are of the etherial unfortunately. Dress you up as a cartoon style WB creation (overlay chicken feathers)?. Someone would have to play the always invisible "DOC".

Akushla99
I'm not taking any of it very seriously, am I?...bad boy bubby!...and the seriousness is a problem for me..., when PAPA is the averred big cohuna - without match...everything else devolves into US and THEM, in the sand-pit..."my corner of the sand-pit, my tonka trucks, my spade and shovel"...kindergarten material...he he Å99

Is it required for you to take my notions seriously, no, as you say its a game of words and ideas, and if you think oneupmanship is part of my playcard you would be right. Papa is poppy, and his congregation dwindles with every church closing (chicago, milwaukee innercity) everyone has moved to the suburbs. Poppy has his match and shouldnt overreach or overstep his physical NO! (what; baracaded in the jail of his own ancestors making, Vatican City) or spiritual boundries. He is not God, or Gods choice as its major megaphone/horn. They learned this recently. Dont let feral cats use your sandbox as a litter station (or at least charge them).

reply to post by vethumanbeing


"Is it required for you to take my notions seriously, no, as you say its a game of words and ideas, and if you think oneupmanship is part of my playcard you would be right. Papa is poppy, and his congregation dwindles with every church closing (chicago, milwaukee innercity) everyone has moved to the suburbs. Poppy has his match and shouldnt overreach or overstep his physical NO! (what; baracaded in the jail of his own ancestors making, Vatican City) or spiritual boundries. He is not God, or Gods choice as its major megaphone/horn. They learned this recently. Dont let feral cats use your sandbox as a litter station (or at least charge them)." QUOTE VHB

'One-up' isn't really my style VHB (you should knoe this)...I don't need to stand on others to elevate myself over them...that being said, I will level the field, whether it means me climbing on invisible buildings or razing them, to be able to stand next to them...not 'in front', not 'behind', not 'beneath' and not 'above'...

I cherish the platform that would splaaash (like last nights up-chucked and 'advertised' boneless fish) the contents (or hastily and furtively arranged) pollock masterpieces...I don't tell, require or order anyone to explain the mess and clean it up 'quick smart!'...I'm just here going 'did you have peas with that?'...

I have no 'beef jerky chewathon' with anyone (least of all you)...and not with any of the 'crop' (I include myself!)...I'm a child in a wonka world, laughing and sharing my toys...

'Poppy's' not my concern - the 'hereforto unsighted', IS...daddy didn't go, he was just never here to begin with...too busy working...so we could have a roof over our heads and food on the table...that's the credit I'll give...no-one 'talks' to him/her except through the time-delayed despatch mechanisms/comm. circuits (when they're 'up')...and even that is the cosmic relay variety at best...Your brilliant thread illustrated exactly this...

...and whether anyone wanted to call the 'uncles' that came by to make sure daddys kids were doing ok - Dadda...who am I to dissappoint the doe-eyed darlings??..so cuuute and pouty...

Å99

akushla99
reply to post by vethumanbeing

VeteranHumanBeing
Is it required for you to take my notions seriously, no, as you say its a game of words and ideas, and if you think oneupmanship is part of my playcard you would be right. Papa is poppy, and his congregation dwindles with every church closing (chicago, milwaukee innercity) everyone has moved to the suburbs. Poppy has his match and shouldnt overreach or overstep his physical NO! (what; baracaded in the jail of his own ancestors making, Vatican City) or spiritual boundries. He is not God, or Gods choice as its major megaphone/horn. They learned this recently. Dont let feral cats use your sandbox as a litter station (or at least charge them).

Akushla99
'One-up' isn't really my style VHB (you should knoe this)...I don't need to stand on others to elevate myself over them...that being said, I will level the field, whether it means me climbing on invisible buildings or razing them, to be able to stand next to them...not 'in front', not 'behind', not 'beneath' and not 'above'...

You are my vanguard as is Joe, when I see the word wars (within a sincere and relevent thread) your side is not playing on a level field; the field above better vantage point). Granted this; you and I speak in Metaphor, thats why its a one on one understanding of each other (some people think we are one and the same being). When you and I talk its 'balderdashianisms' (take from the espousal) for what you can, its meant to be ANYTHING BUT LITERAL (we have that understanding, others may not and if they join the frey, give them some room for error). My two favorite people on ATS at odds hurts my heart and places me in the mediation squirrel/hampster cage, round and round I go, trapped in the middle of a spinning conundrum that is so tiresome and spirit zapping cartoon style (eventually I churn myself into butter).

Akushla99
I cherish the platform that would splaaash (like last nights up-chucked and 'advertised' boneless fish) the contents (or hastily and furtively arranged) pollock masterpieces...I don't tell, require or order anyone to explain the mess and clean it up 'quick smart!'...I'm just here going 'did you have peas with that?'...

Peas are the only thing on the menu and they are the Libbys canned variety. I cherish any platform that allows us to contribute to it without dragging into oblivion (able to, dont want to and just not playing fair). You clean up as you go, and take the glass chards out of your toys.

I dislike Jackson the IAM GODs gift to the 50s painterdome pantomime (better than a Diebencorn sp? he thought so or was theatenned by the brilliance of this deconstructed vision), his idea was a one-hit wonder that splashed for 2 years (thanks to Peggy G.) just like Warhola (WE GET IT) its called breaking ALL the rules of naturalism, (figure painting garffigyou) and is over in an instant (mindfart) not a group of paintings to represent for eternity a simple obvious thought Arrrg. Not a Grotto, Not a El Greco, not anything worthy of real rememberance.

Akushla99
I have no 'beef jerky chewathon' with anyone (least of all you)...and not with any of the 'crop' (I include myself!)...I'm a child in a wonka world, laughing and sharing my toys...
'Poppy's' not my concern - the 'hereforto unsighted', IS...daddy didn't go, he was just never here to begin with...too busy working...so we could have a roof over our heads and food on the table...that's the credit I'll give...no-one 'talks' to him/her except through the time-delayed despatch mechanisms/comm. circuits (when they're 'up')...and even that is the cosmic relay variety at best...Your brilliant thread illustrated exactly this.

Daddy Poppa is a pretender to the throne he does not have ownership of, (still on the moving truck lost on I10) tries his best to describe its shape, dimension, character but missed out on the mystical aspects. LG Circuits to God direct are not in place yet direct brainwire in process or at least an ideaform (hardwire R and D in process). I am always looking for the Wonka Bar with the 'golden ticket' enclosed. Its a quest for God, or a sweet chocolate treat with a bonus added, I inherit HEAVEN.

reply to post by Mr. Mysterious


Everyone seems to be asleep, take off your gum/sneaky squeaky shoes; lets be very quiet so as I can work some behind the curtain magick (wands waving ready; check, crystal gaising, check, juggling ideaforms no dropping of; check). BALANCE needed on the tightrope, the crowd must hold their breath.

reply to post by akushla99


I know you are there. Deibencorn, 60s, next progression (would have been completely intimidated as it was a reorder or back to basics of Pollacks premise)--Pollacks problem was Willem DeCooning, a better painter and visionary; as he retained some of the figurative HUMAN aspect. Pollack basically killed/denied the human in his depiction of it (circumtance). Was he of the religious type, an angry soul eventually wiping his own existance out in a drunken car crash? Lee Krasner 'wife' (lucky to be in Europe at the time). Off Topic perhaps, but painters are God/creators and could be desribed as such; interpreters of the world they have been born into, and describing it with a unique and individual authenticity: with or without the presence of the almighty. Kind of an over the top way to play god and MAKE BUCKS Gigantic OUT OF IT; some within their life times, some shills *VanGogh* only one painting ever sold to his brother Theo the Art Dealer (are they any different than circus tent evangelists?) Was Kandinsky an RC?

WarminIndy
reply to post by Rex282

 

You don't judge us but you call what we practice baby brown poop?
Really?

'Splain to dees Chreestuhn.....

You attempted in a clever, cutesy way of saying.."You believe in a pile of ....." Is that what you think of my faith?

Do you disassociate my faith apart from me? Are we separate? My belief, that is intrinsic to me, is now compartmentalized and shoved into the recycle bin, while myself and the rest of my psychology is stamped "return to sender"?

Then you say you believe in God. Aren't you then stamped "return to sender"? But since it's your worldview, how would you like me to say "Oh, you I like, but your worldview is full of ......". That wouldn't be very pleasant, and since you apparently believe you are being returned to the same sender as I, then why question the message the sender put in this envelope?

Why would the sender even put two different messages in these different envelopes? Are you going to call Customer Service and complain about my envelope? If my envelope is not for your use, then why complain about it?

P2P, let's not share that file. Downloading not possible. My Mp3 player only has room for good songs.

There is a huge distinction between rightly judging a religion as being false and judging the people who practice it.I can judge between things (institution and doctrines) as being righteous and unrighteous .I am not judging the people that practice it in ignorance.They don't know any better.They have to answer to God about what they do not me.I'm not the judge of anyone.

The point is I agree with Yahoshua when he said...They worship God with their lips but their heart is far from God." That is practicing religion....any religion.A religion that claims Yahoshua as it's founder is patendly false in everyway .If you are offeneded by what I said you are offeneded by the wrong person.

I also completly agree with Yahoshua when he said "many will come in my name and say they are christ and will decieve many."Paul understood the destructiveness of religion when he declared himself the chiefest of all sinners(and he was) and gave his pedigree as a Jew born of the tribe of Benjamin circumcized on the 8th day an Israelite and a pharisee,perfected in the law but he said he counted it all dung.He was the epitome of a religious man practicing a relgion that had nothing to do with God.

I agree with all the others apostles of whom none were Christians but others called them by that name derisively.Is the Christian religion unrighteous...yes..and even more so than any other religion because it claims Yahoshua as it's founder when nothing could be further from the truth.That belief is a little (a lot of) leaven leavening the whole lump.It is as Paul says ...dung.

vethumanbeing
...................
I dislike Jackson the IAM GODs gift to the 50s painterdome pantomime (better than a Diebencorn sp? he thought so or was theatenned by the brilliance of this deconstructed vision), his idea was a one-hit wonder that splashed for 2 years (thanks to Peggy G.) just like Warhola (WE GET IT) its called breaking ALL the rules of naturalism, (figure painting garffigyou) and is over in an instant (mindfart) not a group of paintings to represent for eternity a simple obvious thought Arrrg. Not a Grotto, Not a El Greco, not anything worthy of real rememberance.

my comment is not germane to the OP but to a fragment of what I have quoted.Even though not a "fan" nor hater of JP art ( I don't know enough of it either way) I get a glimpse of the "spirit " he created in.I'm a musician/artist and the closest I come to my "art" is an organized cacophony.For those that know me they would probably not call me a Theist but a Phiest since I'm inclined to perceive things through Phi.It is the underlining natural order of everything from things that are perceived as very organized to cacophony"disguised".My music is more Mozart and Beethoven (and Beatles) than Ives and Stravinsky(at least at the moment) my "graphic art is more organized cacophony.

I recently "painted"(metaphor) my inside house walls with venetian plaster(kids...don't try this at home!!Cacophony doesn't just "happen" even when organized.The great thing is... it is always a work in progress.The onion layers get deeper and deeper.Here's a glimpse out of my studio into the hall.Sometimes I feel like I could walk inside them walls...(don't ask me how I know)

Rex282
vethumanbeing

Vethumanbeing[/] I dislike Jackson the IAM GODs gift to the 50s painterdome pantomime (better than a Diebencorn sp? he thought so or was theatenned by the brilliance of this deconstructed vision), his idea was a one-hit wonder that splashed for 2 years (thanks to Peggy G.) just like Warhola (WE GET IT) its called breaking ALL the rules of naturalism, (figure painting garffigyou) and is over in an instant (mindfart) not a group of paintings to represent for eternity a simple obvious thought Arrrg. Not a Grotto, Not a El Greco, not anything worthy of real rememberance.

Rex282
my comment is not germane to the OP but to a fragment of what I have quoted. Even though not a "fan" nor hater of JP art ( I don't know enough of it either way) I get a glimpse of the "spirit " he created in. I'm a musician/artist and the closest I come to my "art" is an organized cacophony. For those that know me they would probably not call me a Theist but a Phiest since I'm inclined to perceive things through Phi.

Pollack is not worth the trouble, he not only killed himself in a reckless manner but another young innocent being ejected from the car. I see his spirit as an 'attempted suicide' negative in every one of his paintings. You are of the artistic nature? Im a painter. Organized cacophony is quite an orginal description of your process.

Rex282
It is the underlining natural order of everything from things that are perceived as very organized to cacophony"disguised". My music is more Mozart and Beethoven (and Beatles) than Ives and Stravinsky(at least at the moment) my "graphic art is more organized cacophony.

Mozart or Bach, Beethoven seem very organized compared to Stravinsky, Prokofiev or Eric Satie? I may be missing your sublimeness, or delicacy of thought, Satie was very organized in his chaotic piano meanderings, as was Stravinsky, just did not to the initial playing upon first AUDIO transmission seem so. It took me 10 hearings of the 'Rite of Spring" to make sense of it, cacophony!! and it is my favorite symphony of all time ever composed. ITS NOT MELODIC, yes it is but its of the EMOTIVE TYPE it screams the various human conditions of the fathomless understanding "WHY ARE WE HERE". Holsts "The Planets" would speak for them I suppose "War" "Joy" etc.

Rex282
I recently "painted"(metaphor) my inside house walls with venetian plaster(kids...don't try this at home!!Cacophony doesn't just "happen" even when organized.The great thing is... it is always a work in progress.The onion layers get deeper and deeper.Here's a glimpse out of my studio into the hall.Sometimes I feel like I could walk inside them walls...(don't ask me how I know)

.

I lived in a house that I painted the exterior to match the rolling landscape, all of the edges, (square angles) totally disapeared from a distance, hid it and using natural light helped with the deception, from 200 hundred feet could not tell a house existed there. You know how you know because you are a creator being (Gods perfection in a being expressing itself) have to ask, why would you paint a 40s style space heater very realistic; in a hallway, inefficient and maybe a fire hazard (oh thats right its not real).

edit on 5-11-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)