Does Resurrected = Born Again?, and does one have to be Resurrected first, before one can receive th

reply to post by akushla99


Funny.

Now I understand you better and where you are coming from. So for future posting, you are henceforth going to make sense to me.

WarminIndy
reply to post by akushla99

 

Funny.

Now I understand you better and where you are coming from. So for future posting, you are henceforth going to make sense to me.

...and please ask me if I don't! I can pull things inside out and upside down and tend to write it as it emerges...all eviscerated and bloody...engine parts all over the kitchen floor...he he

Å99

akushla99
vethumanbeing
Joecroft
reply to post by akushla99

Akushla99
What spirit is not holy, when all is from a 'holy' source? (whatever import is attached to the word 'holy')......fishbowl questions...Å99

expert swimmer VHB
All live form spirits are "life form spirits". Not sure about the Holy Aspect; having the ability of 'Self Recognition' may give a leg/fin up as to how to escape the fishbowl (who has the longest ladder; JOB).

Akushla99
Infligere - to dash/strike (from the footsball loving Latins, not Latinos!)[hey can have the 'reborn' - one off deal...even 2 wouldn't be enough...or a twofer one deal...Job had the patience of Job he he...what's that chris isaak song...Cruel Cruel Game (dressed up as a This is Your Life japanese primetime torture show...)...if it hadn't of been the great ones doing, it would have been hard luck/hard cheese...how can you not feel sorry for the poor dude?

Job had the patience enough to define the realmification of the WORD "PATIENCE" I could never be that human, as I would be angry at my God. Chris Isaak (Isaak must be a Hebrew spelling/name? or an ANAGRAM for genious) wrote the song "Wicked Game" you are referring to; AND WHAT A GREAT SONG, everyone should hear it (one of the great Oklahoma original "Balladeers" stylewise, Roy Orbitson). Forever Blue. Job? he knew the ropery, the knots, the moor points. Personally, I would have lost my temper at some point.

Akushla99
'Holy' aspect is the highpitched *ding* that makes it speshal when uttered around candlelight, stained glass and arched vaults...if its not that one, its the cheap Kmart branded one - can't be used in proper cathedrals of holiness...apparently...although I have seen some pretty cheap candles in cathedrals around the world..

Youve never lived in a 'haunted house' no way to keep candles lit (Priests in 'real cathedrals' use electric devices that "look" like the real thing otherwise would never stay lit). Youve never heard the cartoon Wal-Mart style (but Im serious) boink, boing, kurplunct!! (aisle 5, notions/seasonal) of a time ratcheting (think cogs and gears) CHANGE? Ive never seen a Cheap cathedral, just blood, sweat and masonic tears to build them. EARLY/LATE Gothic FRENCH (my favorites).

WarminIndy
reply to post by akushla99

WarminIndy
Since you are no fan of face painting...what's your opinion of tribal tattoos. Face painting is funny for little kids, they like butterflies, even though I don't know why. But this dialogue seems to be male-centric, I have no idea what all you are saying. Maybe Wildtimes can come here and explain this to me from the female perspective.

Children are of that perfect age that they can (within the ages of 1 to 3) still see angels; their beginnings/teachers invisable to adults. Have you observed what they are actually looking at in the near distance and waving to "HI" (always wondered what a couple of 2 year olds looking at each other are GROKING). So you are both Male-centric and have had an extra-es-pesh-ially dynamic and memorable bonding Moment, KUDOS (all is now right with the universe). Calling all Wildtimes creatures to figure this one out.

Joecroft
reply to post by akushla99

 

Originally posted by Akushla99
"The reason I think your putting yourself in this Balderdash category, is because you have yet to make the unknown, known." Quote JC

Claim of fact or assumption?...be careful with these!...zirconians can look very much like real diamonds...but I'd let you wear what you want on the finger - *shiny & all*...

The point of that quote, was tied in with my analogy, about how some people think Aliens don’t exist, and when they find out they do, then it becomes known etc…

As for your question, fact or assumption?, I can only go on what you’ve written so far. On one hand you say my OP question is Balderdash, and then on the other, you say you’re a Roman Catholic lol, And seeing as my OP content specifically asked for Christian input, you really need to start filling in some blanks here…

Seriously, your not making any sense…

- JC

Joe I'm not a "christian" either.(thank you God!!) however I'm am very qualified to answer your OP...more on your response later.

Rex282

Joecroft
reply to post by akushla99

 

Originally posted by Akushla99
"The reason I think your putting yourself in this Balderdash category, is because you have yet to make the unknown, known." Quote JC

Claim of fact or assumption?...be careful with these!...zirconians can look very much like real diamonds...but I'd let you wear what you want on the finger - *shiny & all*...

The point of that quote, was tied in with my analogy, about how some people think Aliens don’t exist, and when they find out they do, then it becomes known etc…

As for your question, fact or assumption?, I can only go on what you’ve written so far. On one hand you say my OP question is Balderdash, and then on the other, you say you’re a Roman Catholic lol, And seeing as my OP content specifically asked for Christian input, you really need to start filling in some blanks here…

Seriously, your not making any sense…

- JC

Joe I'm not a "christian" either.(thank you God!!) however I'm am very qualified to answer your OP...more on your response later.

From experience the velvet rope keeper is only admitting ideational complicity...and it's thier doof doof club - apparently doesn't matter what 'leave-stamps' you got either...ergo, you cannot be admitted - good luck chatting up the owner at the door...

Å99

Rex282
Joecroft
reply to post by akushla99

rex282
Joe I'm not a "christian" either.(thank you God!!) however I'm am very qualified to answer your OP...more on your response later.

Rex282, Im really interested as well; as you are not a 'christian' either. Thank God for your epistle (more information hopefully forth coming). You realize you are thanking God for being a non believer of (itself/yourself) SUCH a God does not exist? Explain to me how this makes sense when the obvious spagetti bowl MIASMA equals PLASMA =26 letters and a misanthropic misdirected diatribe explaination of a Californication Salad starter (appetizer) IS HERE on Rodeo Drive, forks existing, on the table to the right of the plate. BREATHE.

WarminIndy


There are pink, blue, yellow and green churches?

and whited ones too,,full of dead mans bones...I didn't say that either however I whole heartedly agree

WarminIndy
But don't presents also come in boxes? Sometimes boxes are good and useful.

Yes and some kids would sooner play with the box than what comes in them because they don't know the value of a gift.

Malvina Reynolds said she wrote this on a trip through Daly city California and was appalled at all the tracts home painted different colors but made of the same ticky- tacky .It's a brilliant social commentary that applies to about everything.

Man desires a God in a box.So he had some people make one and they worshiped it but God wasn't in that box they just believed he was.Some things never change.

akushla99
Rex282
Joecroft
reply to post by akushla99

Rex282
Joe I'm not a "christian" either.(thank you God!!) however I'm am very qualified to answer your OP...more on your response later.

Akushla99
From experience the velvet rope keeper is only admitting ideational complicity...and it's thier doof doof club - apparently doesn't matter what 'leave-stamps' you got either...ergo, you cannot be admitted - good luck chatting up the owner at the door...Å99

And that would be you, wearing the badge (microscopic sandwich sign) "upholder of the grace, wisdom and SEVERITY of the proprietors wiggly moment to moment intentions that can change at A WHIM). Thats why you are the one checking the IDs. You can determine the false admonitions, or at least get them to beg to be put at the END OF THE LINE to start again the process of entrance (velvet rope dividials are there for a reason separate the Kurds from the Sways). No One Chats MY POSSE Up (its my venue they have to find the 'Chuckle Hut' first and prove I am its 'virtual' owner). All of my spiritual bills are paid in full/or the promisary note of contriction will be satisfied soon.

vethumanbeing
Rex282
Joecroft
reply to post by akushla99

rex282
Joe I'm not a "christian" either.(thank you God!!) however I'm am very qualified to answer your OP...more on your response later.

Rex282, Im really interested as well; as you are not a 'christian' either. Thank God for your epistle (more information hopefully forth coming). You realize you are thanking God for being a non believer of (itself/yourself) SUCH a God does not exist? Explain to me how this makes sense when the obvious spagetti bowl MIASMA equals PLASMA =26 letters and a misanthropic misdirected diatribe explaination of a Californication Salad starter (appetizer) IS HERE on Rodeo Drive, forks existing, on the table to the right of the plate. BREATHE.

edit on 3-11-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

From where I am sitting (up wind) Christianity is the most abundant member religion and is the color of baby poop brown.Van Halen must have been taking a cue from God when their concert ridder specified all the brown M&M's must be removed or the contract is null and void.

Christian It's also a very presumptions moniker to hang on one self when even The one called Christ didn't do so....as for believing in God....I know God and God knows me so the formalities have been dispensed of so no belief necessary.

I don't judge anyone that believes in Christianity or any religion.It's necessary ...it's just not edifying.All will come to know God..in Gods schedule.God said it works better that way and God is pretty wise so I take God at his word...and yes I use God as a pronoun not a name.

vethumanbeing
akushla99
Rex282
Joecroft
reply to post by akushla99

Rex282
Joe I'm not a "christian" either.(thank you God!!) however I'm am very qualified to answer your OP...more on your response later.

Akushla99
From experience the velvet rope keeper is only admitting ideational complicity...and it's thier doof doof club - apparently doesn't matter what 'leave-stamps' you got either...ergo, you cannot be admitted - good luck chatting up the owner at the door...Å99

And that would be you, wearing the badge (microscopic sandwich sign) "upholder of the grace, wisdom and SEVERITY of the proprietors wiggly moment to moment intentions that can change at A WHIM). Thats why you are the one checking the IDs. You can determine the false admonitions, or at least get them to beg to be put at the END OF THE LINE to start again the process of entrance (velvet rope dividals are there for a reason separate the Kurds from the Sway). No One Chats ME Up.

Haha...except, I didn't set the parameters of this little cabal club up...I'm sure I'd be refused employment under the terms (cos somehow I don't fit into the franchise)...despite holding a lifetime membership I had no conscious choice in when it was conferred by St John the officiating water-trickler...that box is ticked (not that I care whether it matters)...nor when I was 'confirmed' - 7 YO monkey suit (dressed for God in mamas finest)...box ticked...(not that I think it matters)...but the cabal likes moving the goalposts/velvet rope and citing 'wrong footwear, sorry'...I care little for childish maze games...the same DJ plays the same music down the road next week...or I'll just go to the jazz club, tonite...
Specifics weren't mentioned in the pick-a-box quiz...did you get vetted at the door VHB?...did anybody else?...mmm...no...
The pronouncement was clear...it was for Christians...(not that I really care)...all of a sudden I'm wearing a fake posse badge...how did that happen, I wonder?...and who's saying it's fake?

Å99

reply to post by akushla99


...you see, somehow...my cheeky balderdash category inclusion...went to this...

"I can only go on what you’ve written so far. On one hand you say my OP question is Balderdash" Quote JC

...which is not what I said at all...and kind of calls into question whether what I'm writing is actually being read, because apparently JC can only go on what I've written so far...what can I say, if that's not what I wrote...it's net-burned!?..hey, I'd be defensive too if I started swirling my own spaghetti bowl around, and someone called it gnocchi...

Å99

reply to post by Rex282


You don't judge us but you call what we practice baby brown poop?
Really?

'Splain to dees Chreestuhn.....

You attempted in a clever, cutesy way of saying.."You believe in a pile of ....." Is that what you think of my faith?

Do you disassociate my faith apart from me? Are we separate? My belief, that is intrinsic to me, is now compartmentalized and shoved into the recycle bin, while myself and the rest of my psychology is stamped "return to sender"?

Then you say you believe in God. Aren't you then stamped "return to sender"? But since it's your worldview, how would you like me to say "Oh, you I like, but your worldview is full of ......". That wouldn't be very pleasant, and since you apparently believe you are being returned to the same sender as I, then why question the message the sender put in this envelope?

Why would the sender even put two different messages in these different envelopes? Are you going to call Customer Service and complain about my envelope? If my envelope is not for your use, then why complain about it?

P2P, let's not share that file. Downloading not possible. My Mp3 player only has room for good songs.

reply to post by akushla99

Originally posted by Akushla99
Mmm...the money, or the box? (Have I got a phone-a-friend left?)...time's ticking kushie...

Errr...(it's a trick question kushie! Watch out!)...

I call myself a vegetarian...but it's not strictly on health grounds...I guess I'm not a vego either...(god this is a hard one)...

Health grounds, has nothing to do with it. You could be as fit as a fiddle, and be a vegetarian, and you could be suffering from an assorted manner of ailments, and still be a vege lol Being a vegetarian, has nothing to do with your current health situation, it’s connected solely to what you eat. So you’re clearly not thinking straight on that one.

Originally posted by Akushla99
So are you saying, all I have to do (despite being christened, baptised and beaten clean) is to believe in key christian tenets (or as you put it, holders of a lease who are christian) that make absolutely no sense (I'd hate to use the intellect the Glorious One gave me) and POOF! all's well?

Please understand, I’m not trying to say that you have to believe in anything, I’m not trying to pigeon hole you, or convert you. This isn’t a “convert the masses thread.” (I can do that on another thread lol)

I’m simply trying to understand your perspective, regarding your first 2 posts on this thread. Which I’m pretty sure, most people would agree, were not that clear.

Originally posted by Akushla99
...you see, somehow...my cheeky balderdash category inclusion...went to this...

"I can only go on what you’ve written so far. On one hand you say my OP question is Balderdash" Quote JC

...which is not what I said at all...

Å99

Firstly, I asked you in a subtle manner, if your insistence of this new category insertion, was the right way to approach it; especially on a thread poll, asking for Christian perspectives, of 2 opposing views.

Secondly, you keep baiting me, into guessing what your position/perspective is, followed by you shooting my attempted conclusions down in flames.

So what did you mean by your 2 posts below.

Here they are again below…

Originally posted by Akushla99
Paradigmatic questions...
...that bear no relation to the whole...

Å99

Originally posted by Akushla99
Missing is the 'balderdash' category...

Aside (unabashedly) from the use of the terms 'resurrection', 'born again' and 'holy spirit' (the latter, upholding the misguided view that there is another 'spirit' - re: an internally consistent logic, that relies on vague explanations, that presumably would prompt a straw poll that has EVEN it's own adherants discussing what these terms mean, let alone whether one follows the other, or vice versa) the term Christian is a catch-all, that in many respects can categorise, even unbelievers in the activities that (or frames of mind, or both) constitute the moniker Christian...being christlike, believing in christ (either as an archetype construct, or a real-life, un-gunslinging hero)...

I humbly insert the Balderdash category.

Å99

So I will ask you directly, what did you mean by your posts above? And what did you mean by your need to “humbly insert the Balderdash category?”

And just to add – It was a pretty natural conclusion to make, that you thought the my OP questions were Balderdash, just based on your first 2 posts alone. Sorry for miss-understanding you, but I don’t feel I can take sole responsibility for it. Although judging by the whole “vege thing” above, I really got my work cut out, on this one…

Please clarify your position more clearly, in your next reply..

- JC

reply to post by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by Vethumanbeing
Its all about the mindblowing Joe, sort of like if aliens exsist, maybe God does as well? Im not sure but Im pulling the drawstrings in OH Maybe God is a Genetisist, Maybe there is no God perse, just a plasma factory that is continually reinventing itself as to understand ITSELF. Who Knows? but is it that serious to hurt the heart over (seat of the soul you know). Im seeing Rants by others (for reasons unknown let it go).

“Its all about the mindblowing Joe”

LOL

Funny…

I see myself as just a humble student, passing through…

Originally posted by Vethumanbeing
…sort of like if aliens exsist, maybe God does as well?
…

Seeing as you have shown such promise, intellectual skills, a finely attuned mind to the mysteries of the universe, and a knowledge and vocabulary, that is second to none, I will spear you the wrath of Khan…lol

But I must point out, that what you have written above is incorrect. I was simply using the “Aliens exist” motif, as an example of that which is one minute unknown, and then can become known. For example, Aliens abducting you in the middle of the night etc…With the emphasis being on the analogy, of something becoming known.

The parallel that’s being drawn, is that the Holy Spirit is at some point unknown, until one receives it. This has nothing to do with me thinking that Aliens, are somehow proving Gods existence lol, but I guess it was an easy mistake to make, so I wont go jumping down your throat, unlike some people I could mention lol

Just had to clear that one up…

- JC

reply to post by WarminIndy

Originally posted by Warminindy
Here's why, JoeCroft, because not all Christians believe in that. That's why Christianity is confusing to some people, the multiplicity of doctrines, tenets and creeds. Yes, the fundamental resurrection doctrine is not embraced by all Christians.

You see, I would say that your last sentence above is a contradiction in terms. I mean, show me a Christian denomination, that does not accept the Resurrection, or the Holy Spirit, in one form or another.

There are certain key tenants, that are universal throughout all of Christendom, right across the entire board, and I would say Resurrection and the Holy Spirit are two of them.

Sure, some denominations may see salvation slightly differently, or view Hell differently, or think that drinking alcohol is against scripture etc and the list goes on; but there are certain key aspects/fundamentals that are universally accepted, by all denominations.

Originally posted by Warminindy
I, however, do believe in it. But since most Christians will use the Bible to justify their beliefs, or anti-beliefs, then how do you address that when non-believers present things?

You are of course responding to my response to Akushla99 post, which is the backdrop of our current discussion. So the phrase “non-believer” is a tricky one, especially if you can read between the lines, of my discussion with Akushla99.

But the thing is, this thread was just a quick poll, to get Christians views on the 2 major tenants, outlined in my OP, and whether they agreed with the standard Christian interpretation of them.

So naturally, I’m only expecting to hear responses from (A) those who consider themselves Christian + (B) those who already accept and believe in the tenants mentioned in my OP, even if they view them slightly differently from whatever denominational perspective, they’re coming from.

- JC

reply to post by Joecroft


I am a Christian.

But let's go over some of these tenets and creeds of denominations.

Reform Theology believes in Eternal Security, the others don't.

Charismatics and Pentecostals believe in the manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit, the others don't.

Replacement Theology does not believe in a resurrection.

Is that good so far?

What are the fundamentals you would like to hear about? Prevenient Grace? Substitutionary Atonement? Baptism at different ages? These are all fundamentals to denominations.

Baptists, Presbyterians, Methodists, Lutherans, Nazarenes, Anglicans and Church of Christ are all Reform Theology.
Oneness Pentecostals and Pentecostals are Charismatic
Quaker is Quaker
Catholic is Catholic
Some Baptist and some above named are Replacement Theology.
Church of God, Anderson Assembly is Replacement Theology.
Amish is Replacement Theology.
Church of God, Cleveland Assembly, Mountain Assembly, Foursquare Gospel, Pentecostal Holiness are all Charismatic.

So which fundamentals?

Some believe in TULIP, some don't. Those who do call me an Arminiast, because I don't follow Calvinism. Calvinism is both Reform and some are Replacement.

Are you talking about the Virgin birth as a fundamental? Well, Catholics believe Mary herself was Immaculate, the rest don't. Are you talking about the Crucifixion? Some believe it's only for certain people while others believe it is for all.

Then you have those who call themselves Non-Denominationals, but they really are Reform Theology. There are some who are Replacement Theology.

Then you have "Bapticosts"..those who are Charismatic Baptists, then there's Charismatic Catholics as well. When referring to Christianity, you can't put an umbrella over us and say we all think alike, because each one of these has a different tenet and creed.

Church of Christ does not have music in some of their churches, some do. Church of Christ believes you must be baptized immediately or you are not saved. Catholic baptize babies.

Did you assume I didn't know anything about Christianity? I am a Christian, so I think I know what it's all about.

reply to post by Joecroft


"Health grounds, has nothing to do with it....So you’re clearly not thinking straight on that one." Quote JC

Within a codified system under which I could care to class myself (or not)...your quiz question had no reference to lacto-ovo, flexitarian, pescatarian, vegan, raw vegan, macrobiotic...You're clearly having a problem wrapping your head around notions...

"I’m simply trying to understand your perspective, regarding your first 2 posts on this thread. Which I’m pretty sure, most people would agree, were not that clear." Quote JC

The first of theses comments, bears little relation to the second...'because I don't understand it...which I'm pretty sure (oh and) most people would agree, were not that clear' Suddenly you're speaking for everyone? There's a condition for that he he...

"Firstly, I asked you in a subtle manner, if your insistence of this new category insertion, was the right way to approach it; especially on a thread poll, asking for Christian perspectives, of 2 opposing views." Quote JC

...because, in reality, there are only 2 opposing views...anything else is really confusing you...and the poll was clearly not for Christians, otherwise you would have checked thier credentials at the door...how many are not? Are you having a problem, them being in the poll club?

"So I will ask you directly, what did you mean by your posts above? And what did you mean by your need to “humbly insert the Balderdash category?” Quote JC

That should be fairly obvious...I'm not scratching my head wondering why you would find them confusing...even though you've read the little golden book - you credit every word/concept/ideational notion in it? It's the word of God...Are I making sense?...Your requirement of adherence to 'key' principles (in the formation of a quiz) may have been a tad naiive, and I humbly inserted the balderdash category...NOTE: did not say your OP question was balderdash! That's called putting words in my mouth (by admittedly assuming - and you know what they say about assumption).

Å99

reply to post by WarminIndy

Originally posted by Warminindy
Replacement Theology does not believe in a resurrection.
Is that good so far?

IMO Replacement theology is NOT Christianity.

And they’re completely in the minority group, and our conversation is in the context of you defending Akushlas position, when he/she/it has already stated that they’re a Roman Catholic!

Originally posted by Warminindy
So which fundamentals?

When I say fundamental…I mean fundamentally important…

Jesus talks about the Resurrection, as do the Pauline Epistles. Sure, some denominations may have different views on how the mechanics of those things work, but IMO it’s would have to classed as universal teaching, by at least the majority of Christian groups. And the same goes for the Holy Spirit, Jesus talks about how people will receive it, and of course we have the accounts of the day of Pentecost etc…

So both the Resurrection, and receiving the Holy Spirit, are 2 of the most important fundamental tenants in Christianity IMO. In fact, I’d say that if a person didn’t believe in them both, then they’re not a Christian!


- JC

reply to post by akushla99

Originally posted by Akushla99
The first of theses comments, bears little relation to the second...'because I don't understand it...which I'm pretty sure (oh and) most people would agree, were not that clear' Suddenly you're speaking for everyone? There's a condition for that he he...

Well, no ones come forward stating they know what your position is yet. Because, I don’t think anybody knows lol

Originally posted by Akushla99
...because, in reality, there are only 2 opposing views...anything else is really confusing you...and the poll was clearly not for Christians, otherwise you would have checked thier credentials at the door...how many are not? Are you having a problem, them being in the poll club?

They’re not confusing me at all…I’m only confused by your posts lol

I haven’t had a problem with any of the Christian views so far. They all stated what they thought/believed, and gave their answer to the question in my OP.

Originally posted by Joecroft
"So I will ask you directly, what did you mean by your posts above? And what did you mean by your need to “humbly insert the Balderdash category?” Quote JC

Originally posted by Akushla99
That should be fairly obvious

It’s not obvious, that’s why I’m asking you to clarify your position further.

Originally posted by Akushla99
It's the word of God...Are I making sense?...Your requirement of adherence to 'key' principles (in the formation of a quiz) may have been a tad naiive, and I humbly inserted the balderdash category...

Yes, but why do you feel the need to insert the balderdash category? And why the need to do so, on a thread, where I’m asking for those who already believe in the Christian tenets in my OP, to give their opinion etc…?


- JC