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Does Resurrected = Born Again?, and does one have to be Resurrected first, before one can receive th

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posted on Nov, 2 2013 @ 07:45 PM
link   

Joecroft
reply to post by akushla99
 




Originally posted by Akushla99
That question would be best answered by someone asserting what I knoe...you decide...


You want me to assert what you know, huh…

I can only go on the small scraps, that are available…lol



Originally posted by Akushla99
I included myself in the poll as a RC


Aha, what light through yonder window shineth; so you’re a Roman Catholic, who just so happens to not believe in resurrection, or the Holy Spirit, or people becoming “born again”….becuuuuaaaasee ….??? (some body wana help me out here) lol

- JC


"The reason I think your putting yourself in this Balderdash category, is because you have yet to make the unknown, known." Quote JC

Claim of fact or assumption?...be careful with these!...zirconians can look very much like real diamonds...but I'd let you wear what you want on the finger - *shiny & all*...

Haha...you wanna go through 'scraps' and reconstitute the elements of the meal...be my guest...

Sad to learn I can't be in the club (on your determination)...sorry coach :/
But what do I do with the lifetime paid-up membership?

I've got the guernsey, I know the club song, I used to go to all the games...but then I grew up and got a life...

I doubt you need any help with the awesome qualifications being displayed...but I'm not auditioning you...he he

Å99




posted on Nov, 2 2013 @ 08:17 PM
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akushla99
Joecroft
reply to post by akushla99
 



Originally posted by Akushla99
That question would be best answered by someone asserting what I knoe...you decide...



Joecroft
You want me to assert what you know, huh…
I can only go on the small scraps, that are available…lol
Aha, what light through yonder window shineth; so you’re a Roman Catholic, who just so happens to not believe in resurrection, or the Holy Spirit, or people becoming “born again”….becuuuuaaaasee ….??? (some body wana help me out here) lol- JC



Joecroft
"The reason I think our putting yourself in this Balderdash category, is because you have yet to make the unknown, known."


Ones journey is never idealic, and idealistically trying to decipher a/the path for oneself is a monumental undertaking; (finding; then relating to a percieved Creatorform) the natural impulse is to impart/inflict this upon another equally confused person and is unconscionable or a TORTURE (better word device). I prefer Slap Stick FUNSTERISMS personally, how does one convince another something you fathomed as REAL exists, when they are in the initial stages of a different totally individualized enlightment? I try to keep my mouth shut, I try and try but cannot seem to zip it because the cry (IM HERE) is primordial and a yelp for help.


edit on 2-11-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2013 @ 08:49 PM
link   

akushla99


*Boxes, boxes...little tiny boxes...in boxes, boxes...little tiny boxes*


Little boxes[churches] on the hillside,
Little boxes made of ticky tacky,
Little boxes on the hillside,
Little boxes all the same.
There's a green one and a pink one
And a blue one and a yellow one,
And they're all made out of ticky tacky
And they all look[act] just the same.

And the people in the houses[churches]
All went to the university,[seminary]
Where they were put in boxes
And they came out all the same,
And there's doctors[pastors] and lawyers,[preachers]
And business[elder] executives,
And they're all made out of ticky tacky
And they all look just the same.



posted on Nov, 2 2013 @ 08:55 PM
link   

vethumanbeing
akushla99
Joecroft
reply to post by akushla99
 



Originally posted by Akushla99
That question would be best answered by someone asserting what I knoe...you decide...



Joecroft
You want me to assert what you know, huh…
I can only go on the small scraps, that are available…lol
Aha, what light through yonder window shineth; so you’re a Roman Catholic, who just so happens to not believe in resurrection, or the Holy Spirit, or people becoming “born again”….becuuuuaaaasee ….??? (some body wana help me out here) lol- JC


I didnt think the Tall in stature/subtle body were RCCs but I might be exaggerating here; Akushla are you in actuality an Aboringine/Pagan (or leaning toward the more Thorish, just my faulty biased base opinion at work Aborigine RRCs are from Sweden or Norway (via the camel hair fur/Cubic Zerconian fake diamond trade) MiddleEast? Im throwing darts in a map (Im from/of France if anyone cares, Mimes and silly people that engaged in pointless wars with the English (am English/scottish).


Joecroft
"The reason I think our putting yourself in this Balderdash category, is because you have yet to make the unknown, known."


Ones journey is never idealic, and idealistically trying to decipher a/the path for oneself is a monumental undertaking; (finding; then relating to a percieved Creatorform) the natural impulse is to inflict this upon another equally confused person is unconscionable or a TORTURE (better word device). I prefer Slap Stick FUNSTERISMS personally, how does one convince another something you fathomed exists, when they are in the initial stages of enlightenment?


edit on 2-11-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)


So, that's an interesting pier to jump off...

I live in a country I was not born in...I effectively and literally have 2 carnets of passage! The one country says I CANNOT renounce its nationality, the other says that in having one passport, I cannot hold another...
I'm a free agent playing variously on whatever team I like...I choose my own guernsey, I see whatever games I want based on the demeanour of crowds, and I despise hooliganism, even as live entertainment...

To 'flict' in...is the offensive manouvre...belongs to blood sports (or euphemistic battle scenarios)...

I'd say, born again and again and again...but, I'd never act as crutch (without permission or compulsion) to another who had no reason to ask a question (taken as serious)...

Resurrected...bring back to life?!

What spirit is not holy, when all is from a 'holy' source? (whatever import is attached to the word 'holy')...

...fishbowl questions...

Å99



posted on Nov, 2 2013 @ 09:03 PM
link   

Rex282

akushla99


*Boxes, boxes...little tiny boxes...in boxes, boxes...little tiny boxes*


Little boxes[churches] on the hillside,
Little boxes made of ticky tacky,
Little boxes on the hillside,
Little boxes all the same.
There's a green one and a pink one
And a blue one and a yellow one,
And they're all made out of ticky tacky
And they all look[act] just the same.

And the people in the houses[churches]
All went to the university,[seminary]
Where they were put in boxes
And they came out all the same,
And there's doctors[pastors] and lawyers,[preachers]
And business[elder] executives,
And they're all made out of ticky tacky
And they all look just the same.


Ta Rex282

I remembered the tune and little tiny boxes...I wanted to illustrate an advert that appeared here some years back, produced by the Christian Television Workshop...with young, hip dudes and dudesses trying to tell us about the Christianity they were involved in...hipster gee-ing up 'I don't want to live in some boxed in kinda lifestyle'...was the funniest thing I have ever seen...I thought it was a Saturday Night Live skit...sadly, was not...

Å99



posted on Nov, 2 2013 @ 09:09 PM
link   

akushla99[

Ta Rex282

I remembered the tune and little tiny boxes...I wanted to illustrate an advert that appeared here some years back, produced by the Christian Television Workshop...with young, hip dudes and dudesses trying to tell us about the Christianity they were involved in...hipster gee-ing up 'I don't want to live in some boxed in kinda lifestyle'...was the funniest thing I have ever seen...I thought it was a Saturday Night Live skit...sadly, was not...

Å99


Yes...a box is a terrible thing to waste...



posted on Nov, 2 2013 @ 09:14 PM
link   
reply to post by akushla99
 





Originally posted by Akushla99
"The reason I think your putting yourself in this Balderdash category, is because you have yet to make the unknown, known." Quote JC

Claim of fact or assumption?...be careful with these!...zirconians can look very much like real diamonds...but I'd let you wear what you want on the finger - *shiny & all*...


The point of that quote, was tied in with my analogy, about how some people think Aliens don’t exist, and when they find out they do, then it becomes known etc…

As for your question, fact or assumption?, I can only go on what you’ve written so far. On one hand you say my OP question is Balderdash, and then on the other, you say you’re a Roman Catholic lol, And seeing as my OP content specifically asked for Christian input, you really need to start filling in some blanks here…

Seriously, your not making any sense…

- JC



posted on Nov, 2 2013 @ 09:16 PM
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reply to post by akushla99
 


Since you are no fan of face painting...what's your opinion of tribal tattoos?

Face painting is funny for little kids, they like butterflies, even though I don't know why.

But this dialogue seems to be male-centric, I have no idea what all you are saying. Maybe Wildtimes can come here and explain this to me from the female perspective.


Why buy the guernsey if you can get the milk for free? You were talking about cows, right? Or is this a cultural reference that I have no idea about?



posted on Nov, 2 2013 @ 09:21 PM
link   

Rex282

akushla99


*Boxes, boxes...little tiny boxes...in boxes, boxes...little tiny boxes*


Little boxes[churches] on the hillside,
Little boxes made of ticky tacky,
Little boxes on the hillside,
Little boxes all the same.
There's a green one and a pink one
And a blue one and a yellow one,
And they're all made out of ticky tacky
And they all look[act] just the same.

And the people in the houses[churches]
All went to the university,[seminary]
Where they were put in boxes
And they came out all the same,
And there's doctors[pastors] and lawyers,[preachers]
And business[elder] executives,
And they're all made out of ticky tacky
And they all look just the same.


There are pink, blue, yellow and green churches?

But don't presents also come in boxes? Sometimes boxes are good and useful.



posted on Nov, 2 2013 @ 09:22 PM
link   

Joecroft
reply to post by akushla99
 





Originally posted by Akushla99
"The reason I think your putting yourself in this Balderdash category, is because you have yet to make the unknown, known." Quote JC

Claim of fact or assumption?...be careful with these!...zirconians can look very much like real diamonds...but I'd let you wear what you want on the finger - *shiny & all*...


The point of that quote, was tied in with my analogy, about how some people think Aliens don’t exist, and when they find out they do, then it becomes known etc…

As for your question, fact or assumption?, I can only go on what you’ve written so far. On one hand you say my OP question is Balderdash, and then on the other, you say you’re a Roman Catholic lol, And seeing as my OP content specifically asked for Christian input, you really need to start filling in some blanks here…

Seriously, your not making any sense…

- JC


Which 'blanks'?

What would make me a bona fide member of the club, in your eyes? My passport does not say I am a Muslim. I am baptised, christened and beaten clean...I'm not an athiest...Do I qualify for the grade school quiz?

Care to pidgeonhole a poor gamin?

Making sense, is your call...clearly...I defer to it...with respect...

Å99



posted on Nov, 2 2013 @ 09:32 PM
link   

WarminIndy
reply to post by akushla99
 


Since you are no fan of face painting...what's your opinion of tribal tattoos?

Face painting is funny for little kids, they like butterflies, even though I don't know why.

But this dialogue seems to be male-centric, I have no idea what all you are saying. Maybe Wildtimes can come here and explain this to me from the female perspective.


Why buy the guernsey if you can get the milk for free? You were talking about cows, right? Or is this a cultural reference that I have no idea about?


Oh God...that is seriously funny (I'm not laughing at you WarminIndy!)...a grandparent of mine was born in Guernsey!
No...jumper, windsheeter, cardigan...

Å99



posted on Nov, 2 2013 @ 09:39 PM
link   

WarminIndy

Rex282

akushla99


*Boxes, boxes...little tiny boxes...in boxes, boxes...little tiny boxes*


Little boxes[churches] on the hillside,
Little boxes made of ticky tacky,
Little boxes on the hillside,
Little boxes all the same.
There's a green one and a pink one
And a blue one and a yellow one,
And they're all made out of ticky tacky
And they all look[act] just the same.

And the people in the houses[churches]
All went to the university,[seminary]
Where they were put in boxes
And they came out all the same,
And there's doctors[pastors] and lawyers,[preachers]
And business[elder] executives,
And they're all made out of ticky tacky
And they all look just the same.


There are pink, blue, yellow and green churches?

But don't presents also come in boxes? Sometimes boxes are good and useful.


If you've ever seen a scrimshaw puzzle ball being made, the point is, once you've carved the inner balls, they cannot be extricated...ideas get like this, don't you think? Admittedly I was reminiscing on the little boxes within boxes within boxes - matroyschka doll type reference...although it fits nicely with a lot of conceptual devices...the puzzle ball was probably more apt in hindsight...

I love face-painting, tattoos...the type I was talking about were the hoodlum elements of supporter bases, trying the face-paint, faux warpaint variety...

Å99
edit on 2-11-2013 by akushla99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2013 @ 09:49 PM
link   
akushla99
vethumanbeing
akushla99
reply to post by akushla99

VeteranEssenePundit
I didnt think the Tall in stature/subtle body were RCCs but I might be exaggerating here; Akushla are you in actuality an Aboringine/Pagan (or leaning toward the more Thorish, just my faulty biased base opinion at work Aborigine RRCs are from Sweden or Norway (via the camel hair fur/Cubic Zerconian fake diamond trade) MiddleEast? Im throwing darts in a map (Im from/of France if anyone cares, Mimes and silly people that engaged in pointless wars with the English (am English/scottish).



Joecroft
"The reason I think our putting yourself in this Balderdash category, is because you have yet to make the unknown, known."



VeteranEssenePundit
Ones journey is never idealic, and idealistically trying to decipher a/the path for oneself is a monumental undertaking; (finding; then relating to a percieved Creatorform) the natural impulse is to inflict this upon another equally confused person is unconscionable or a TORTURE (better word device). I prefer Slap Stick FUNSTERISMS personally, how does one convince another something you fathomed exists, when they are in the initial stages of enlightenment?



Akushla99
So, that's an interesting pier to jump off...I live in a country I was not born in...I effectively and literally have 2 carnets of passage! The one country says I CANNOT renounce its nationality, the other says that in having one passport, I cannot hold another...I'm a free agent playing variously on whatever team I like...I choose my own guernsey, I see whatever games I want based on the demeanour of crowds, and I despise hooliganism, even as live entertainment..


You live in a country you were not born in? Welcome to the club. I could have had duo citizenship but it was too confusing at age 16 the choices! (a circus performer contortionist or an evangelical living in movable tents; same thing). I love the Guernsey milk cow, is it trainable for the center ring, without the standard poodle as a saddle? I knew you were SACROSANCT.


Akushla99
To 'flict' in...is the offensive manouvre...belongs to blood sports (or euphemistic battle scenarios)...
I'd say, born again and again and again...but, I'd never act as crutch (without permission or compulsion) to another who had no reason to ask a question (taken as serious)...
Resurrected...bring back to life?!


No, to flick is a metaphor booger off the left little finger, oh yes I suppose offensive but its just like ear wax; not blood sports unless the name of the game is in the AIM. Born Again! NOT AGAIN!, one is just the reincarnation tilt-a-whirl the other is BORN AGAIN as having somehow achieved a requisite 'enlightenment for that soul' and a huge congrates goes out for that accomplishment, I mean, roses, champagne and a 10,000 dollar life insurance policy to cover burial costs.


Akushla99
What spirit is not holy, when all is from a 'holy' source? (whatever import is attached to the word 'holy')......fishbowl questions...Å99


All live form spirits are "life form spirits". Not sure about the Holy Aspect; having the ability of 'Self Recognition' may give a leg/fin up as to how to escape the fishbowl (who has the longest ladder to borrow; the very experienced and tried and true navigator of TRUTH? --JOB, my hero my father). Anu was as the human definition: JOB.

edit on 2-11-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2013 @ 10:09 PM
link   

vethumanbeing
akushla99
vethumanbeing
akushla99
Joecroft
reply to post by akushla99
 



Akushla99[
I didnt think the Tall in stature/subtle body were RCCs but I might be exaggerating here; Akushla are you in actuality an Aboringine/Pagan (or leaning toward the more Thorish, just my faulty biased base opinion at work Aborigine RRCs are from Sweden or Norway (via the camel hair fur/Cubic Zerconian fake diamond trade) MiddleEast? Im throwing darts in a map (Im from/of France if anyone cares, Mimes and silly people that engaged in pointless wars with the English (am English/scottish).


Joecroft
"The reason I think our putting yourself in this Balderdash category, is because you have yet to make the unknown, known."



VeteranEssenePundit
Ones journey is never idealic, and idealistically trying to decipher a/the path for oneself is a monumental undertaking; (finding; then relating to a percieved Creatorform) the natural impulse is to inflict this upon another equally confused person is unconscionable or a TORTURE (better word device). I prefer Slap Stick FUNSTERISMS personally, how does one convince another something you fathomed exists, when they are in the initial stages of enlightenment?



Akushla99
So, that's an interesting pier to jump off...I live in a country I was not born in...I effectively and literally have 2 carnets of passage! The one country says I CANNOT renounce its nationality, the other says that in having one passport, I cannot hold another...I'm a free agent playing variously on whatever team I like...I choose my own guernsey, I see whatever games I want based on the demeanour of crowds, and I despise hooliganism, even as live entertainment..


You live in a country you were not born in? Welcome to the club. I could have had duo citizenship but it was too confusing at 16 the choices! (a circus performer contortionist or an evangelical living in movable tents; same thing). I love the Guernsey milk cow, is it trainable for the center ring, without the standard poodle? I knew you were SACROSANCT.


Akushla99
To 'flict' in...is the offensive manouvre...belongs to blood sports (or euphemistic battle scenarios)...
I'd say, born again and again and again...but, I'd never act as crutch (without permission or compulsion) to another who had no reason to ask a question (taken as serious)...
Resurrected...bring back to life?!


No, to flick is a metaphor booger off the left little finger, oh yes I suppose offensive but its just like ear wax; not blood sports unless the name of the game is in the AIM. Born Again! NOT AGAIN!, one is just the reincarnation tilt-a-whirl the other is BORN AGAIN as having somehow achieved a requisite 'enlightenment for that soul' and a huge congrates goes out for that accomplishment, I mean, roses, champagne and a 10,000 dollar life insurance policy to cover burial costs.


Akushla99
What spirit is not holy, when all is from a 'holy' source? (whatever import is attached to the word 'holy')......fishbowl questions...Å99


All live form spirits are "life form spirits". Not sure about the Holy Aspect; having the ability of 'Self Recognition' may give a leg/fin up as to how to escape the fishbowl (who has the longest ladder; JOB).



Infligere - to dash/strike (from the footsball loving Latins, not Latinos!)

They can have the 'reborn' - one off deal...even 2 wouldn't be enough...or a twofer one deal...

Job had the patience of Job he he...what's that chris isaak song...Cruel Cruel Game (dressed up as a This is Your Life japanese primetime torture show...)...if it hadn't of been the great ones doing, it would have been hard luck/hard cheese...how can you not feel sorry for the poor dude?

'Holy' aspect is the highpitched *ding* that makes it speshal when uttered around candlelight, stained glass and arched vaults...if its not that one, its the cheap Kmart branded one - can't be used in proper cathedrals of holiness...apparently...although I have seen some pretty cheap candles in cathedrals around the world...

Å99
edit on 2-11-2013 by akushla99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2013 @ 10:13 PM
link   
reply to post by akushla99
 





Originally posted by Akushla99
Which 'blanks'?


The “BLANKS” that have yet too be filled, you know, the ones that make your position look like an oxymoron!!! lol i.e. “The OP questions are Balderdash, oh and BTW, I’m a Roman Catholic!!!…”



Originally posted by Akushla99
What would make me a bona fide member of the club, in your eyes? My passport does not say I am a Muslim. I am baptised, christened and beaten clean...I'm not an athiest...Do I qualify for the grade school quiz?


Your either a regular down at the infamous chuckle hut comedy café…

OR…

You’re a Christian, with some serious grievances….

Here’s your first question for the grade school quiz…

(1) Why would a Person who calls themselves a Christian, not believe, in certain key Christian tenants, which make up their belief system, i.e. such things as the Resurrection, and the Holy Spirit etc etc…???

- JC



posted on Nov, 2 2013 @ 10:23 PM
link   
Joecroft
reply to post by akushla99
 


JoecroftThe reason I think your putting yourself in this Balderdash category, is because you have yet to make the unknown, known.



Akushla99
Claim of fact or assumption?...be careful with these!...zirconians can look very much like real diamonds...but I'd let you wear what you want on the finger - *shiny & all*...



Joecroft
The point of that quote, was tied in with my analogy, about how some people think Aliens don’t exist, and when they find out they do, then it becomes known etc…As for your question, fact or assumption?, I can only go on what you’ve written so far. On one hand you say my OP question is Balderdash, and then on the other, you say you’re a Roman Catholic lol, And seeing as my OP content specifically asked for Christian input, you really need to start filling in some blanks here…Seriously, your not making any sense…


Its all about the mindblowing Joe, sort of like if aliens exsist, maybe God does as well? Im not sure but Im pulling the drawstrings in OH Maybe God is a Genetisist, Maybe there is no God perse, just a plasma factory that is continually reinventing itself as to understand ITSELF. Who Knows? but is it that serious to hurt the heart over (seat of the soul you know). Im seeing Rants by others (for reasons unknown let it go).



posted on Nov, 2 2013 @ 10:28 PM
link   

Joecroft
reply to post by akushla99
 





Originally posted by Akushla99
Which 'blanks'?


The “BLANKS” that have yet too be filled, you know, the ones that make your position look like an oxymoron!!! lol i.e. “The OP questions are Balderdash, oh and BTW, I’m a Roman Catholic!!!…”



Originally posted by Akushla99
What would make me a bona fide member of the club, in your eyes? My passport does not say I am a Muslim. I am baptised, christened and beaten clean...I'm not an athiest...Do I qualify for the grade school quiz?


Your either a regular down at the infamous chuckle hut comedy café…

OR…

You’re a Christian, with some serious grievances….

Here’s your first question for the grade school quiz…

(1) Why would a Person who calls themselves a Christian, not believe, in certain key Christian tenants, which make up their belief system, i.e. such things as the Resurrection, and the Holy Spirit etc etc…???

- JC



Mmm...the money, or the box? (Have I got a phone-a-friend left?)...time's ticking kushie...

Errr...(it's a trick question kushie! Watch out!)...

I call myself a vegetarian...but it's not strictly on health grounds...I guess I'm not a vego either...(god this is a hard one)...

So are you saying, all I have to do (despite being christened, baptised and beaten clean) is to believe in key christian tenets (or as you put it, holders of a lease who are christian) that make absolutely no sense (I'd hate to use the intellect the Glorious One gave me) and POOF! all's well?

Serious grievances...again...is your call...I'm no child fitted with a guilt suit...so, no there is no grief...

Å99
edit on 2-11-2013 by akushla99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2013 @ 10:48 PM
link   
reply to post by akushla99
 


Oh, I get it now..."join the club and show your support by wearing our colors".

So the face painting is like tribal tattoos. You mean like those people who paint their faces or wear their favorite footballer jersey to identify them with the team. Thank you for explaining, I understand now, and so therefore the rest of what you are talking about now makes sense.

You are kind of referring to what I call "bandwaggoning" or just joining because it's popular and you can't get into the club without your hand stamped.

I see you are taking the road less travelled, the high one or the low one, and we'll meet in Scotland by and by?

Perhaps you are saying there is merit in anti-conformity. I do agree to an extent. If we blindly followed the team, and someone asked us why we wear those colors, it's always about the team. Don't let them in the club without the stamp..don't let them in the team unless they wear Beckham's number.

Maybe you and I are alike, we seem to always have been on the outside looking in? There's no I in team. Non-conformity is not always of our choosing, we just didn't fit in and they know it. But who wants to be in a team that doesn't want you to play? I can't play on a team that doesn't work for me.



posted on Nov, 2 2013 @ 10:51 PM
link   

WarminIndy
reply to post by akushla99
 


Oh, I get it now..."join the club and show your support by wearing our colors".

So the face painting is like tribal tattoos. You mean like those people who paint their faces or wear their favorite footballer jersey to identify them with the team. Thank you for explaining, I understand now, and so therefore the rest of what you are talking about now makes sense.

You are kind of referring to what I call "bandwaggoning" or just joining because it's popular and you can't get into the club without your hand stamped.

I see you are taking the road less travelled, the high one or the low one, and we'll meet in Scotland by and by?

Perhaps you are saying there is merit in anti-conformity. I do agree to an extent. If we blindly followed the team, and someone asked us why we wear those colors, it's always about the team. Don't let them in the club without the stamp..don't let them in the team unless they wear Beckham's number.

Maybe you and I are alike, we seem to always have been on the outside looking in? There's no I in team. Non-conformity is not always of our choosing, we just didn't fit in and they know it. But who wants to be in a team that doesn't want you to play? I can't play on a team that doesn't work for me.


Yep...that's it!

Incidentally, there is 'me' in team he he...and 'am' which is first person...

Å99
edit on 2-11-2013 by akushla99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2013 @ 10:56 PM
link   
reply to post by Joecroft
 


Here's why, JoeCroft, because not all Christians believe in that. That's why Christianity is confusing to some people, the multiplicity of doctrines, tenets and creeds. Yes, the fundamental resurrection doctrine is not embraced by all Christians.

I, however, do believe in it. But since most Christians will use the Bible to justify their beliefs, or anti-beliefs, then how do you address that when non-believers present things?

Tenets and creeds were created to justify denominations. You have to agree to their tenets and creeds when joining a denomination. I can't agree to some of them, so I can't be what they are. But it comes down to self-identification, how does that Christian self-identify? Do they say they are Baptist or Methodist? Yes, they do.

That's the whole issue, the multiplicity of Christian tenets and creeds within the denominations. And there's no challenging them unless you want to make a whole new denomination.



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