The True Message Of Christ

It is quite common on ATS and in the world that people find the need to spread their interpreted message of the bible. The problem with this is that people get caught up in their own egos to know what the true message is. It is all too common that people who identify as "christians" put themselves on a throne to worship usually by judging others to trump up the image of the self.

The true message Christ taught was love, he didn't teach the concept of trying to out wit your neighbor to believe your ideology. He didn't teach to condemn everyone you see. Those who behave like that are have an identity problem. They see themselves as a god and the fruit they produce, arrogance, bears witness to that truth.

If your gonna preach, why not preach love. How do you preach love? By doing it, not speaking about it. If loving your neighbor is helping them out, then help out your neighbor and you will be spreading the word or the message of Christ.

reply to post by Ralphy


The difference with those who wear the ideals as a garment and whose who truelly believe in the ideals. Lovely Jesus so much wisdom and they ones after him created dogma and garment off it. Sad but nothing new with the interaction between the students here when god sends his servants to teach. That history repeats itself again and again. 3 steps forward and 2 back.

How many Christians know what the 7 lamps and 7 spirits of god in revelation represents?

reply to post by LittleByLittle


The chakras?

AfterInfinity
reply to post by LittleByLittle

 

The chakras?

. But you are not of the Christian garment are you? Love you soul brother.

reply to post by LittleByLittle


I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

Yep, Jesus' entire message was this:

Matthew 22
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

If everyone loved each other and did as Jesus taught, heaven would be on Earth. There would be no war, greed, or poverty.

Even Christians do not follow his two commandments because they are too caught up in the traditions of men. They are more focused on believing he died for our sins and rose from the dead than to actually put his words into action.

John 15
10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

I wonder why he doesn't mention his death on the cross? Because that is a doctrine created by men who came after Jesus died who wanted to mentally enslave us. They have been very successful so far, which is why the world is the way it is now. People do not love each other as they should, not even Christians.

reply to post by Ralphy


If you imagine the Golden Mean of Aristotle and Confucius, there is an amazing lesson in their teachings. I won't go into it here, but there is a good way to visualize this according to your OP.

Imagine a pendulum swinging. The point of rest for the pendulum is righteousness. This is the point at which the mind has experienced all the opposites in life. The mind perceives the swing one way to be good and the swing the other way to be Evil. In reality, both are missing the true essence of righteousness.

Wickedness is evil. Self-righteousness goes beyond the mark in the middle and swings the pendulum to the other side. Both extremes are wicked because they require judgment. On the wickedness side, a person is being judged by the law. On the self-righteousness side, the perception of righteousness is making themselves the judge. Which is the essence of truth? Judge not lest you be judged. Faith removes the need for law.

Why does faith remove the need for law? Law is a guardian.

Galatians 3

23 Before the coming of this faith,[j] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Go back to the Golden Mean idea.

Golden Mean Philosophy

Confucius and the Doctrine of the Mean

The Bible speaks of the double-minded. This is a person that lives in duplicity. If we seek God for reward, what are we after? If we seek God to avoid punishment, what are we really after? In both cases, the answer is selfishness. The true master of this world finds the answer in one place. Truth requires that we abide in it. The person that ignores truth is abiding in ignorance.

This is the ultimate misconception that some people have of the Christian spreading truth. It's not the Christian that is the judge. It is truth. Yes, in some cases, the Christian can be self-righteous, but what is an Atheist who judges the Christian? Simpy a swing to one side or the other of life.

Truth demands that we find the mean.

Confucius, 500 BC

"The way of Heaven and Earth may be completely declared in one sentence: They are without any doubleness, and so they produce things in a manner that is unfathomable."

reply to post by Ralphy


"Let your light shine before men so that they may see your good works" - Matthew 5:14-16

According to The New Testament....


God Is love and God Is light

God = love = light


You can not shine the light of love to others if you have darkness of hatred or even SELF-hatred in your heart.

What is the lesson?


Love yourself so that you can extend that love to others.

The pitfalls of all religion is what has cornered modern Christians into this paradigm.

The catch has been and always will be, Christ doesn't care how you believe in him, just that you do. All of these pop up religions that followed the days of Abraham are nothing more than human conjecture on how God best be worshiped and which way is absolutely wrong.

The good lord put forth that no other god before him. And that's the point. To twist a belief structure (church) into a crutch for the feeble minded to follow is not apart of gods plan nor his original intention.

Jesus died to give us some leeway with the man upstairs in the respect that if you follow the idea of God regardless of your sins you will be saved. No other religion really touches on that premise of worship God, not the religion. The bible in itself is a users manual, not to be taken word for word, but to be sought after for wisdom under gods light so that one may not stray from his path. Unfortunately it is often chopped and used to prove a false point in intention so that the man doing it can squeeze his followers for a closed mind.

Islam is by far the worse offender in this category of religious closed door understanding which makes it easy for the educated to twist the words of the Qur'an to keep its uneducated followers pushing a man made agenda. If you are upset that I would say such a thing about the Muslim religion than poo poo for you. I put Islam right up there with Scientology in the respect of light toilet time reading material.

As in this post however, again it is used as an example as the worst offender against what God had originally intended. Does that make the many separate christian religions right? No it does not. Christians are at times and cases right up there with the misuse of gods word for the agenda of controlling its flock to push a warped translation or ideal that was pulled from the good book. Which ever book that may be of course.

Then again I blame man for that, he is fallible and often misguided due to the ego within. That is why when I want to speak to god, I speak to him. Not to a man to speak through him.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
If everyone loved each other and did as Jesus taught,
heaven would be on Earth. There would be no war, greed,
or poverty.

It's beyond greed, . . .
It's about control of souls and slavery,

Why was Jesus martered ?
MOTIVE :
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free,
there is neither male nor female; for you are all one"

as said by the prophet Jesus in Galatians 3:28

^ ^ ^ This is why he became an instant enemy to
the slave-masters, the king 'Herods' of the world.
Things haven't changed since , same old same old.
btw monarchism/blood-line hierarchies were invented by man,
to over throw the first nations.
(Canaanites/cain and the jews allied to overthrow the Amalekites)
. . . things haven't been right since.


btw Islam doesn't adhere to bloodlines, nor hierarchies,
or popes which makes islam enemies of the 'elites' as well.
In Islam there is none but the created and the creator.

First off, I am not Christian. Nor am I a devoted practitioner of any one, single specific religion. My wiring does not allow for commitment of spirituality. Instead, I would describe my religious beliefs as a tree. It grows stronger as its root system expands, providing nourishment from many areas.

That being said, my current belief structure is basically, a mutant. Made with various parts of several known religions. Swirled with the lessons, observations and experiences of my life. Along with some science sprinkled on top. I dunno. Maybe it can be called (your name here)-ism. Or simply; open-mindedness...

But anyway, back on topic. As far back as I can remember, I inherently have been an opponent to organized religion. Not only did I find it unnecessary, I have always had the notion that the world would be a much better place without it. I am beginning now to understand why I have always felt this way.

While reading this thread, I realized that places of worship and the practice of religious gatherings have prostitutionilized and cheapened what religion is truly about. It has taken what was intended as a tool/guide towards personal growth, enlightenment, peace and joy and turned it into an external conflict among humans. Finding corruption and hatred through the unwavering universal interpretation of such beautiful books. Creating literal and figurative walls between men. Hate and unimaginable death in the name of religion, with its influences responsible for the world in which we live today.

Ask yourself these two questions: - 1 - If churchs did not exist and everyone of a certain faith became solely responsible for their own personal growth. And when reading the Bible, Quran etc. its meaning is left to interpretation of the reader. Would you get the same meanings out of it as the ones that we've always been told? - 2 - If there was a sudden world wide shift and everyone started to keep their spiritual affairs more to themselves and really never discussed it with anyone other than maybe close friends and family. How would that effect the world in which we live today? What if it had always been that way?

I believe that the world would be a much better place in which religion was allowed to do its job. Pure untarnished goodness.

@ ToneDeaf ...... Whoops. Jesus did not write Galatians. -........................................@op. One could also argue that ''love'' can be preached without mentioning Jesus. The idea that Jesus' true message was ''love'' is a bit vague. Jesus' ''true'' message depends on the verse you are citing. IMO, his message was the command to keep the 2 main commandments, through which all the OTHER commandments arw fulfilled. When one loves God, he keeps the commandments pertaining to God. When one loves his neighbor (ie. Fellow man) he keeps all the commandments pertaining to his fellow man. But christianty has distanced itself from the law, and has reduced Jesus to a sacrificial animal, through which 'believers' in the sin sacrifice theology get a free ticket to heaven,

3NL1GHT3N3D1
Yep, Jesus' entire message was this:

Matthew 22
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

If everyone loved each other and did as Jesus taught, heaven would be on Earth. There would be no war, greed, or poverty.

Even Christians do not follow his two commandments because they are too caught up in the traditions of men. They are more focused on believing he died for our sins and rose from the dead than to actually put his words into action.

John 15
10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

I wonder why he doesn't mention his death on the cross? Because that is a doctrine created by men who came after Jesus died who wanted to mentally enslave us. They have been very successful so far, which is why the world is the way it is now. People do not love each other as they should, not even Christians.

I agree with this, but some people do not know what love is. I do not ask you a wage, but love...

God gave us everything, salvation, forgiveness of sin, everything we have on this earth, our very sustenance, and He asks but one thing...

Love.

let me relate a story.

A group of thugs was beating a woman in the street.

Some people saw this but passed by out of fear that they would also be beaten, so they did nothing.

Another person saw this and yelled at the thugs "stop this, it is wrong to hurt a woman" The thugs just laughed and said said "will you be the one to stop me?" and they continued to beat the woman, the person who had spoken, not wanting to be beaten also, then left.

Another person saw this and decided more was needed to stop this from happening, so he yelled to the thugs, if you stop right now and follow me to the bank, I will give you all that I have, it is over 10,000 dollars... if you just stop hurting her... The thugs cried he was next then, and they came after him to hurt him so he left as quickly as he could eradicate himself from the situation so as not to be beaten as well.

Another person saw all this and said, no, I wont allow this to happen. And he went in saying stop, and started fighting with the thugs, and he was beaten, and bruised... and he gave his life... but he saved the woman.

The End.

The first group of people did not have love.

The second person had the love that speaks but does not act. It is not real love.

The Third person was willing to both speak, and give of his wealth... this is a lesser kind of love, but it can be considered love at least in part. But it is not the highest and truest love. It thinks of self.

The Last person had real love, a love that was willing to give everything, including his life, and endure any pain, for another person. That is the highest form of love there is.


When God says Love Me, with all your heart, and all your soul... He is asking of us the highest form of love. A love that would give anything, do anything necessary, a love that never thinks of self, but only of another....a love that selflessly follows the perfect Will of God, no matter what that cost is, because true love, never thinks of self but seeks only to please the object of his love.

And again, when he says love your neighbors as yourself... is there anything we would not do for our self? We work and endure pain, so we can have a better life, we give ourselves every good we are able. We would if we could stop any pain. Love your neighbors as yourself.

Few can handle what He is asking us... few even know what love is, let alone act with love.

reply to post by Ralphy


This is what I've been trying to tell people for years. If you live as Christ, you live in love. If you live legalistically, you're no better than the Pharisees that Jesus challenged.

I am not a Christian ... but if more Christians went around following the teachings of Christ, rather than using their belief to condemn others, this war on Christianity would be over.

reply to post by scolai


are you married?

If so, would you fight to the death to protect your wife if someone broke in to rape and murder her?

Would you go to the store and grab a gallon of milk on your way home if she asked you to?

If you say yes about fighting to the death to protect her then you love her... if you said yes about grabbing a gallon of milk on your way home, even though its not that convenient, even though you are tired, its because your assumption, without needing to ask, is that you might need the milk for dinner tonight or breakfast in the morning. You trust she is asking you to do something because its important and because you love her you do it without question.

There is a balance between spirituality and law. You do some acts because you trust it is better for you, and others just to be nearer your love. You follow law, because you love.... You cannot ONLY follow law, you cannot do things just to be seen doing them, that is false... but you do things, out of love.

Why people judge each other instead of loving? Why we think our way of seeing church and teachings are the right ones ?
Church has a long history and people tend to learn from those people who have succeeded in life, in Catholic system the succeeders are Popes, Cardinals and Priests. Catholic church gives advices to its priest to be like Jesus were, but all the corrucptions and evil actions gives different example.

In the name of Love ?


My point is, when seeing such an example throughout the centuries we have become judgemental just like the "heads" of the church.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
If everyone loved each other and did as Jesus taught, heaven would be on Earth. There would be no war, greed, or poverty.

Even Christians do not follow his two commandments because they are too caught up in the traditions of men. They are more focused on believing he died for our sins and rose from the dead than to actually put his words into action.

Hey you sound like me, with the whole “traditions of men” speech lol…

It’s actually quite refreshing, to see someone else saying it.

Your absolutely right though. Men are too concerned with worrying about their own salvation, instead of actually seeking, finding and walking the path, which is what true salvation means.

Jesus true words shine like a light beaming out of sentences in the pages, and those words of light cancel out, all the lies and contradictions, that may have been added and manipulated etc…But I believe Jesus knew that his truth, and light, would shine through and extinguish the lies, so that men searching for truth, would be able to distinguish between the two.

Unfortunately men are still doing what Jesus warned about, in this verse below…

Mathew 23:15
15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.

And a “child of Hell” IMO, translates to child of death, which means to be living without the knowledge that they were eternal spiritual beings, and teaching others the same thing.

- JC

reply to post by Joecroft


In my opinion, aything after John's gospel is only there to convolute and distort Jesus' true message, which was that salvation comes from within YOU, through the act of loving others and forgiving them.

My question is this: why was Paul needed at all? He was not one of Jesus' disciples and he did not know Jesus, so why did he come in and start forcing OT theology onto Jesus' message?

The answer, in my opinion, is because he was a Pharisee who forcefully inserted false doctrine (traditions of men) into Jesus' message in order to take focus away from love and to put it on death, Jesus' specifically. He turned Jesus' message of love into death worship.

Not sure if you'll agree with a theory I have, but if you care to look at THIS thread I made a while back, it will show you what I really think of Paul and his message. It might seem a little out there, but I'm a conspiracy theorist at heart, and religion is most definitely a conspiracy in my opinion.

The True Message Of Christ

VERY SIMPLE - Believe in Jesus and Love God with your whole heart, mind, soul and strength and love your neighbor as yourself. If you do those things then you are a Christian. All the rest falls into place if those are followed.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
My question is this: why was Paul needed at all? He was not one of Jesus' disciples and he did not know Jesus, so why did he come in and start forcing OT theology onto Jesus' message?

I would say it was because He genuinely believed (wrongly) that the “traditions of men” were all from God, hence the struggle to try and fit a coherent salvation message together, and make it fit with the OT. Also, there are definitely key words used in Christian Gnosticism, which were turned into a literal interpretations/beliefs by early RCC IMO, but I think this happened through no fault, other than men’s miss-understandings.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
The answer, in my opinion, is because he was a Pharisee who forcefully inserted false doctrine (traditions of men) into Jesus' message in order to take focus away from love and to put it on death, Jesus' specifically. He turned Jesus' message of love into death worship.

You mean the message of grace, and the free gift etc…?

I actually have an idea as to how this miss-understanding came about, I might even do a thread on it myself…

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Not sure if you'll agree with a theory I have, but if you care to look at THIS thread I made a while back, it will show you what I really think of Paul and his message. It might seem a little out there, but I'm a conspiracy theorist at heart, and religion is most definitely a conspiracy in my opinion.

Man, that’s quite a big thread. I’ll take a look, but I should just say that I think most of the contradictions, came about through natural miss-understands I mentioned above. So where you might cite discrepancies between Jesus and Paul’s words, some of them, in many cases, I will most certainly agree with, and may even know the reason why they came about etc…while others may have a reasonable explanation.

Anyway, I’ll take a look at your thread.


- JC