The Danger of the Collective. Whats Happening to ATS?

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posted on Oct, 30 2013 @ 02:55 PM
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I am posting this in rant as I am livid right now to some of the things that are happening here. With a new thread asking members to participate in a "hoax" compilation thread, is not only scary as to what we are becoming, but this means that we are also promoting ignorance, hate, disdain, and chaos when someone disagrees.

This site should never place its self in the authority to who says truth and who doesnt. Important to note, we have ALL at some point received disinformation in one form or another, but it should be left up to a few understanding people, and your own personal choices on who and what you think is true.

I have written plenty of threads where people used this "hoax" crap to derail the topic, and you know what? I keep it moving and bring to the table what I can, but by doing this ATS is telling members that they no longer need proof, all they need is a "Please read this "hoax" thread" theres no need to discuss or prove anything, as according to flags, status, and frankly hive mind, your topic and opinion is moot.


For those that are new here, lurkers, been long time members, or you are a person who wished to spread hoaxes, please believe that some of us are not backing this.

ALL OPINIONS COUNT,INFO IS INFO,but like hell will I be the one to say that your thoughts, can be easily ignored with a link. Ill prove your a hoax, by researching the facts, and having a debate, its called gaining knowledge.

Peace, NRE.



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posted on Oct, 30 2013 @ 02:59 PM
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reply to post by NoRegretsEver
 


The sites motto is "Deny ignorance"

how can you do that when you dont recognize and call out the hoax's

Hoax's destroy the credibility of creditability conspiracies, just look at how YouTube hoaxers have destroyed UFOlogy.

ATS taking steps to expose these hoaxers is a good thing and its long over due.



posted on Oct, 30 2013 @ 03:01 PM
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NoRegretsEver
I am posting this in rant as I am livid right now to some of the things that are happening here. With a new thread asking members to participate in a "hoax" compilation thread, is not only scary as to what we are becoming, but this means that we are also promoting ignorance, hate, disdain, and chaos when someone disagrees.

This site should never place its self in the authority to who says truth and who doesnt. Important to note, we have ALL at some point received disinformation in one form or another, but it should be left up to a few understanding people, and your own personal choices on who and what you think is true.

I have written plenty of threads where people used this "hoax" crap to derail the topic, and you know what? I keep it moving and bring to the table what I can, but by doing this ATS is telling members that they no longer need proof, all they need is a "Please read this "hoax" thread" theres no need to discuss or prove anything, as according to flags, status, and frankly hive mind, your topic and opinion is moot.


For those that are new here, lurkers, been long time members, or you are a person who wished to spread hoaxes, please believe that some of us are not backing this.

ALL OPINIONS COUNT,INFO IS INFO,but like hell will I be the one to say that your thoughts, can be easily ignored with a link. Ill prove your a hoax, by researching the facts, and having a debate, its called gaining knowledge.

Peace, NRE.




No better way to exercise critical thinking than being allowed to judge for ourselves what info should be disregarded.
If we never get to exercise our critical thinking then we would believe anything. Validity of information by committee isnt a good idea. The Ministry of Truth.... no thanks.



posted on Oct, 30 2013 @ 03:06 PM
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NoRegretsEver

ALL OPINIONS COUNT,INFO IS INFO,but like hell will I be the one to say that your thoughts, can be easily ignored with a link. Ill prove your a hoax, by researching the facts, and having a debate, its called gaining knowledge.




the items on the list are items that are deemed hoaxes by the ATS owners and administrators. These are topics that get moved to the hoax forum. Members have asked for a list so they can avoid posting known hoaxes.

I asked our members for assistance in finding those hoaxes. If you read the thread, you'll see that the list in the opening post does not contain everything mentioned in the thread and it won't because there are topics that, while seemingly fake, don't have enough evidence to prove otherwise.



posted on Oct, 30 2013 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
 


What I am saying if there really is such a huge need to deny ignorance, why not start a compilation thread on how to research better, to avoid hoaxes, I would contribute what I could to that. Tell members to cross reference their information, and most of all to become better researchers, so that "deny ignorance" isnt just a motto... but a way of life.



Hoax's destroy the credibility of creditability conspiracies, just look at how YouTube hoaxers have destroyed UFOlogy.


I am sorry but I disagree, YT didnt ruin UFOlogy, collective hive mind that UFO cannot be ON YT, is the reason. Can you say with all certainty that what ATS/Members deem in their final "Hoax Mix" will be ok for everyone?

Peace, NRE.
edit on 30-10-2013 by NoRegretsEver because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 30 2013 @ 03:12 PM
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NoRegretsEver
reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
 


What I am saying if there really is such a huge need to deny ignorance, why not start a compilation thread on how to research better, to avoid hoaxes, I would contribute what I could to that. Tell members to cross reference their information, and most of all to become better researchers, so that "deny ignorance" isnt just a motto... but a way of life.

Peace, NRE.


Exactly!!!



posted on Oct, 30 2013 @ 03:21 PM
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Isn't admitting or acknowledging a hoax just as important to denying ignorance as say verifying a conspiracy is?

Not everything is a false flag or IllumiNSACIAMason operation.

The Hive mentality works both ways. Their are people on this site that think that every single event ever is a false flag. That they are qualified to question experienced experts because they read a few blogs.When it comes to conspiracies I believe you should throw out the extremes on either side of the spectrum and the truth will be some place in the middle.



posted on Oct, 30 2013 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by NoRegretsEver
 


Actually, that is a great idea for a thread, and I would sure follow it. I think it would be good for many people on here, at least the ones that really want to learn.



posted on Oct, 30 2013 @ 03:59 PM
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reply to post by NoRegretsEver
 


NRE,

The Idea, is to have a single thread with KNOWN hoaxers.

Not topics.

As it is important to research, it's important to have information aggregation about known hoaxers.

What's the difference between them determining it's a hoax based on a few different websites as opposed to coming to ATS, if we have the same information, simple categorized and kept up to date?

IMO I would prefer one source that then links me to several different sources when I research than having to wade through thousands of internet pages searching for what I'm looking for.

This isn't about stifling member opinion, or treating members who post about certain topics in a bad light. This is about assisting our membership, at their request and simply creating a thread that includes all the known internet Hoax groups.

~Tenth



posted on Oct, 30 2013 @ 04:41 PM
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Personally I think the idea of a known hoax collection is a good one, the problem is who/how it is decided what should be on the list?


King
edit on 30/10/2013 by kingears because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 30 2013 @ 04:42 PM
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I just recently reactivated my personal Facebook. I have two, one for friends and family, and one for this site here that doesn't display my actual name or personal information.

Now when I checked out my old Facebook account, I was amazed, actually flabbergasted, that so many friends and family were putting forth pieces as factual, a big one was before it's news. Through my interactions with ATS and all I've learned, I was able to inform them of the dangers of simply believing anything they read on user driven sites, and was able to demonstrate fact checking and finding reputable sources and show my family and friends - you can't believe everything you come across on the internet.

I for one am thankful, this site has such a stringent policy on backing up theories with reputable sources. This list being compiled will only further my efforts in helping people identify known hoaxers, fear mongers, and disinfo that is spread via the web.

CdT



posted on Oct, 30 2013 @ 07:18 PM
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Truth and facts get you banned if they are not PC.
Firepiston



posted on Oct, 30 2013 @ 07:48 PM
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reply to post by FirePiston
 

Biggest pile of crap ive read today, or maybe even this week.
Nah, make that this year



posted on Oct, 30 2013 @ 08:13 PM
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My concern and the reason I wrote this, is simply because there seems to be a false theory that we need this information handed to us, so I dont know if I am supposed to be glad that I as a member here am in possible need to be steered in the right direction, or too many people need things to be handed to them.

There is not one possible person on the internet that cannot find out the truth about something, but by having this we take away the chance for someone to learn the intricacies of research. Let us debate, discuss, and yes, get angry.

Now if a thread is written, and debated, instead of seeing a link to a site, or reference, we will see someone write a link to a thread that the "majority" chose to make your thoughts, words, and search for truth invalid. It happened when we had bannings of certain sites, immediately people with 3 posts, and 2 day membership were writing in threads that the OP could get banned for using that reference.

And if you happen to be reading this and wonder what the hell my problem is, believe me I have reason to say these things, as I have had to learn the hard way, that it doesnt matter about your stars and flags, but it surely does matter what you present, and even more important than that, is what your presenting.

Peace, NRE.



posted on Oct, 30 2013 @ 09:23 PM
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NoRegrets,

I have to agree with you on this. I don't post on the website but I think this is important. I've been following ATS for years now and I have noticed how much it has changed. 2007-2008 I swear I would find breaking news here before anywhere else. Boy has times changed. I've read many posts that sounded ridiculous and far fetched but enjoyed the fact that it was up to me to decide the truth. I can see why less people are willing to come forward with information now with these new rules and constant negative critiques.

To Deny Ignorance is a personal decision between each individual.



posted on Oct, 30 2013 @ 09:43 PM
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Hey NRE. Not quite sure what you take issue with. To me it makes a lot of sense to have certain people that time and time again spew nonsense (Faal) be labeled as a HOAXER.

Is your issue that at some point maybe the guy gets something right and we should be taking the time to research every claim. I actually agree with that to a certain extent. Perhaps it would be more beneficial to have a list of known HOAXES instead of HOAXERS.

You said that you want people to learn to research. I agree that's important, but think of all the times we've seen known HOAXES reposted and the newer (or gullible) member gets trashed, mocked, linked to all the other threads... It would be nice to be able to have a list of sources that are highly suspect. I don't know how many times I've started reading a thread and thought, oh, this again. I'm pretty lazy but others take the time to debunk, would be nice to not have to do that time and time again.

I roll my eyes every time I see naturalnews as a source, but I wouldn't want it on the list as it has different authors. If this list they are trying to compile has specific people, I'm pretty much all for it.

If there is going to be a list, I do hope that along with names and sources there are actual REASONS and proof.

I don't consider this censorship (can't recall if it was you who said that or someone in the other thread). It's more like buyer beware. You can still discuss or post, like you can still buy a perpetual motion machine or unlimited free energy device.



My concern and the reason I wrote this, is simply because there seems to be a false theory that we need this information handed to us


Not all of us do, but a lot would benefit. It would save time, hurt feelings, claims of staff singling someone out... Man I've posted a known hoaxer. It was Sorcha Faal. Never heard of him before that though apparently everyone else had. Oddly enough I'd been reading ATS for a year or two. If I knew there was a list of known hucksters when I joined I wouldn't have wasted my time.
edit on 30-10-2013 by Domo1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 31 2013 @ 07:15 AM
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reply to post by Domo1
 



Not all of us do, but a lot would benefit. It would save time, hurt feelings, claims of staff singling someone out... Man I've posted a known hoaxer. It was Sorcha Faal. Never heard of him before that though apparently everyone else had. Oddly enough I'd been reading ATS for a year or two. If I knew there was a list of known hucksters when I joined I wouldn't have wasted my time.


See, it may be just me, but this seems to me that people are concerned with wasting time, as if there is a rush on research, but I also see that kind of thinking that is causing ATS to be more and more mainstream. If you on the site, whether lurking, posting, in a debate or even short stories, then its not a waste, and frankly shouldn't be seen that way.

That kind of laziness/easy way out was the reason ATS was against one-liners.

I can agree on this though, known hoaxes, sure, but hoaxers is different, its not only defamation that can downgrade the integrity of the site.

You mentioned Natural News. I have seen plenty of people link to that site, and there are some good stories in there, but to seriously claim that they are openly spreading lies, is untrue. This is the internet, there will be similar works found on Natural news and Alex Jones, and David Ickes pages, we ALL link to other places.

Here is a little reminder that for years others outside of ATS would link to others works here. So I look up "The danger of the collective" and its on a site that is listed as known "hoaxes/hoaxers" does my opinion matter less? Am I now a liar as well?

We have to be careful with this.

Peace, NRE.



posted on Oct, 31 2013 @ 07:21 AM
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Ok ill come clean im a disinfo agent hoaxer, I feel purged now



posted on Oct, 31 2013 @ 07:26 AM
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I have been thinking about all this . I know,that is a dangerous thing.

What brought me here were questions that I needed to be answered,and they were. But, it also opened up doors to other questions.

It was the quest for knowledge that brought me here,the school of critical thinking.

So,lets just post all the known and proven hoaxes,hoaxers on the home page of ATS and just eliminate a majority of people who would join ,because we don't need that kind of riff-raff in here.
Right?



posted on Oct, 31 2013 @ 08:42 AM
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reply to post by Crakeur
 

Hoaxes are sometimes the best reads on ATS. It's definitely nice to know in advance that we're looking at a hoax, but again ... hoaxes are some of the best reads on ATS.

Think about how smart the regular members of this forum are. Apply that to the collective. Why ... can't you award a flag to a really great hoax re-thread, or reward an insanely intelligent reply made in the forum with a star?

I like the hoaxes, but I don't spend a lot of time with them. Every one I've ever seen make it to the homepage was worth the time I spent reading it. What I won't do, is deliberately seek them out directly in that forum ... it's just too much like reading through an old history book ... and often close to reading a hoax thread anyway.


Best regards to everyone in this thread. Flag for the OP and lots of stars for good thoughts.





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