Example of the importance of remaining in the STATE of GRACE and how do you do that....

reply to post by FlyersFan


I read that link to Garabandal, because I had never heard about it before. If it is all true that those girls experienced those supernatural forces in that way, it's worse than the movie The Exorcist.

I hardly think that The Virgin Mary would be that sadistic.

I

reply to post by WarminIndy


I have often said that the antics of those girls made The Exorcist movie look like childs play.
Running backwards in the night with twisted bodies and heads thrown back to impossible positions ....
Comeon ... God wouldn't do that to anyone.

And then there is the promise to Joey Lomangino. A man without eyes who was 'promised by
the virgin mary' that he'd have new eyes and eyesight. Well, the man is in his 80's and has
dementia and isn't in good health. It's a CRUEL thing to tell a man that, and to have him
dedicate his life to believing it, only to end up extremely old and sick and with dementia
so that even if he got new eyes, it would be on his deathbed. That' CRUEL.

And no, he hasn't gotten new eyes and even if he did at this point he wouldn't live
long enough to enjoy them and his mind is so far gone that he wouldn't understand what
he's seeing anyways.

IMHO Garbandal is demonic. Pure evil.

The Catholic Bishops said that they aren't from Heaven.
8 of them have reaffirmed that.
The girls themselves said it was a hoax and one of them admitted stealing the eucharist to fake the eucharistic miracle with.

Obviously it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that a person should stay away from it.

FlyersFan
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

I have often said that the antics of those girls made The Exorcist movie look like childs play.
Running backwards in the night with twisted bodies and heads thrown back to impossible positions ....
Comeon ... God wouldn't do that to anyone.

And then there is the promise to Joey Lomangino. A man without eyes who was 'promised by
the virgin mary' that he'd have new eyes and eyesight. Well, the man is in his 80's and has
dementia and isn't in good health. It's a CRUEL thing to tell a man that, and to have him
dedicate his life to believing it, only to end up extremely old and sick and with dementia
so that even if he got new eyes, it would be on his deathbed. That' CRUEL.

And no, he hasn't gotten new eyes and even if he did at this point he wouldn't live
long enough to enjoy them and his mind is so far gone that he wouldn't understand what
he's seeing anyways.

IMHO Garbandal is demonic. Pure evil.

The Catholic Bishops said that they aren't from Heaven.
8 of them have reaffirmed that.
The girls themselves said it was a hoax and one of them admitted stealing the eucharist to fake the eucharistic miracle with.

Obviously it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that a person should stay away from it.

edit on 10/31/2013 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)

This is the first thing that caught my attention...

Throughout the four years of the apparitions all the powers of Satan were used. The girls were taken into the air many times. One time one of the children was lifted over the top of a building. They were made to do ungodly movements of the body: taken swiftly above the ground, down the rocky hill hundreds of feet to meet "The Lady?". In every case the children were FORCED to their knees in a quick undignified manor. Many times they were forced with their heads backwards in a position that could not be done naturally.

This reminded me of the experience of Mohammed in the cave. Jibreel (he wasn't sure at the time), grabbed him and threw him down, and said "recite". Mohammed ran out of the cave, afraid he was possessed by this angel attacking him.

So there's two different stories of some type of being that attacks and does awful thing, and in both cases, they said it had to be from God.

What's worse is convincing other people this terrible thing was from God.

(BTW, whoever edited the Wkipedia page about Mohammed and the cave, has downplayed the event. Don't trust the Wikipedia article about it).

reply to post by WarminIndy


I read a magazine article that interviewed the relatives of one of the girls. One swears that the girls 'floated down the stairs backwards and upside down and then floated out the door'.

I wish I still had that article. It was in a magazine about Garabandal.

IF that woman was telling the truth about the incident (and considering how many admitted lies the girls themselves told, we don't know if this woman was telling the truth) ... that REEKS of the DEMONIC. It's right out of a fright night movie. YIKES!!

reply to post by FlyersFan


are you catholic?

OpinionatedB
are you catholic?

I was raised Catholic. I was a Third Order Franciscan for years and then switched to Third Order Carmelite for a long while. I volunteered for nearly a decade at a Catholic TV Station to help 'evangelize the world'. Now my beliefs don't fit into any box with a title on it.

The reason I brought up Confession to Colbe is because SHE claims to be Catholic and SHE told others on this thread to confess their sins. But she has her own sins that need confessing ... take the log out of your own eye before you attempt to take the speck out of someone else's' ....

reply to post by FlyersFan


The people over at the Garabandal website seem to be saying that they consider Islam to be quasi-Christian because of Our Lady of Fatima.

This, to me, is a dangerous sentiment from them....

It is a fact that Moslems from various nations, especially from the Middle East, make so many pilgrimages to Our Lady of Fatima's Shrine in Portugal that Portuguese officials have expressed concern. The combination of an Islamic name and Islamic devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary is a great attraction to Moslems. God is writing straight with crooked lines, as we will see. Fatima is a part of Heaven's Peace Plan. It is hope for the world.

Fatima, the daughter of Mohammed, is second of importance to the Virgin Mary, to Muslims. Wait, what are they saying again?

Of his daughter, Fatima, the founder of Islam, Mohammed, said: "She has the highest place in heaven after the Virgin Mary."

Do they really believe on this website, that God writes straight, with crooked lines? Or is it an attempt on the website believers to justify everything to make everything fit?

Garabandal and Islam

The believers in Garabandal now have included Muslims in the ultimate receiving of grace and salvation and they are going to the same heaven as the Christians. Yet, Muslims aren't taking the eucharist and neither are they being baptized, but Garabandal seems to be saying that none of that matters. That's kind of not Catholic, isn't it?

Garabandal

Maybe I am reading this wrong, but they seem to be saying here that Islam helped to formulate Christian worship in Portugal, Spain and South America?

Is Garabandal simply Chrislamist? I don't know how to comment right on what I just read on their website.

WarminIndy
The people over at the Garabandal website seem to be saying that they consider Islam to be quasi-Christian because of Our Lady of Fatima.

Large numbers of Muslims visit Fatima Portugal and they also visit the house of Mary (Jesus mother) in Turkey. Mary lived there with St. John . I've read that a lot of Muslims think it's really Muhammads daughter Fatima who appeared at Fatima instead of Mary. And Islam has a FICTIONAL story about Jesus and Mary so she's in their belief system.

The believers in Garabandal now have included Muslims in the ultimate receiving of grace and salvation and they are going to the same heaven as the Christians.

I don't know what they are saying. They claim to be Catholic but then ignore when Bishop after Bishop warns them that Garbandal isn't from Heaven. They are kind of doing their own thing.

they seem to be saying here that Islam helped to formulate Christian worship in Portugal, Spain and South America?

I'll have to look at that. God only knows what the Garabandal folks are saying. Just remember, this is an offshoot of Catholics doing their own thing and it's NOT connected with the Catholic Church. These people make the Church look foolish.

Is Garabandal simply Chrislamist?

Its people who are Catholic but have caught apparition fever. Just like a regular fever will scramble a persons brain while they are sick, apparition fever causes people to not think straight. Seriously. Apparition fever was rampant in Catholic circles back in the 1990s. People were are 'very catholic' get caught up in end of the world hype and get caught up in a cult like belief that they are specially chosen by God to 'preach the messages' of whatever 'apparition' holds their fancy at the moment.

Nearly all the 'apparitions' that were big in the 1980s and 1990s have been proven false and apparition fever is mostly gone now. But a few folks are catching it late (like you see on this thread) or have lasting damage from having such a high fever in the 1980s and 1990s.

ATS Guide to False Modern Seers
I made this thread a while back. If you take a look, you'll see a bunch of fake apparitions and the church decisions on them ... and yet some ignore the warnings from the church and indulge anyways. They think they are doing 'gods work' but they are really pushing error and fake messages .. which I'm sure makes the evil spirits very happy.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I am currently reading your other thread and commenting along with what I read.

As a Christian mystic, I wouldn't say all Catholics don't have visions. Sometimes visions are personal. Hildegard of Bingen was a visionist, also called a mystic. She was Catholic and preached until she was 78 years-old. So I wouldn't say everything is false, but do agree there are a lot of false visions in all religions.

Going through these links, I was intrigued by the one of Necedah, Wisconsin who claimed George Washington received a vision from a Marian apparition, the problem with that one, Washington was Anglican.

I want to caution here though, that other Christians are put off by people claiming the Roman Catholic church holds the only truth of God. It seems a lot of criticism from these websites are against those who don't practice Roman Catholicism. That's a big issue for a lot of Christians. I can see that in the case of Vassula Ryden, that the case against her is that the author doesn't like Eastern Orthodox Catholicism. That plays a big part in why many of the "investigators" are going after these people.

If it is because it doesn't encourage the Roman Catholic position, then that's also an agenda by those people to discredit others. I'm not saying the visions are not true or false, but if I look at something written that dismisses someone based on another Orthodox position, then it takes away from it the importance of whether or not the vision is true or false. I just wanted to throw that in, because it's the sticky point for other Christians.

I will agree that many of these "prophecies" are vague. Even Nostradamus was pretty vague also but that he gave symbolic details. I'm still wondering how Hister became Hitler.

Carol Ameche seems to be saying the RFID chips are real. That has never been proven in any way, yet the theory is still out there, even among atheists and agnostics.

OK, this one I would say is false...from Nancy Fowler

Message 687 (Sept 8, 1993): “Jesus said, 'Korea, China and Russia are a deadly trio.' ”

In 1993, there was North Korea and South Korea. But this has to be a throwback to before the Korean War, in which Korea was at war with the Chinese and Russia. Unless there is a future event of when North and South Korea are united again, I don't see this as possible. But since she said "Korea" then I question this particular one.

This is a point from that website I would like to address...

Second, each person has a guardian angel. It is well known among the faithful that you can communicate with your guardian angel by thought (not merely by speaking out loud). Fallen angels also have this natural ability to communicate by thought.

That was originally in Zoroastrianism and borrowed into Christianity. The Avestas say we have guardian angels.

Another one that I find a little dispute with...

Notice the odd expressions used by 'Jesus' in these messages. This is not the way that Jesus speaks in true private revelations. This does not sound like the Son of God speaking in a supernatural message from Heaven.

I don't think the author knows how private revelations to individuals are. Jesus communicates with us on our level of understanding. So that one, I will disagree with his point. Many times, God speaks to me in ways that others might think is strange. I am a very sarcastic person and sometimes sarcasm from God reveals things to me, then I laugh and say "Yep, you're right, God". But notice, I didn't claim the revelations came in the manner that it is for these people. But it is always about a personal issue. I don't also hear audibly, it's always through some kind of revelatory experience within my being.

The thing I would also like to mention is this, these people seem to be getting their "divine inspiration" from conspiracy theories. Of course also, there are always natural disasters, so that's no revelation.

Message 287 (March 9, 1992): “One more day of rest and, then, hop to it.”

The Eternal Son of God does not speak in this manner.

How does he know this? How does he know how Jesus speaks to people?

So the problem I am seeing is this, in this guy's attempt to discredit these people he views as false, he bases it on his own assumptions. I am not saying they are true, what I am saying is that this guy seems more interested in discrediting how Jesus speaks individually to people.

I would have to ask these seers just how they knew it was Jesus talking to them? I would challenge the visions individually before passing them off as all not true. And Jesus can use roosters to make his point, He did with Peter.

But since these seers are saying "Jesus said My Mother says", why doesn't Mary speak for herself? And why would Jesus not speak by His own authority in these matters?

reply to post by WarminIndy


See what I mean about those alleged apparitions?
There are so many that people can get lost in them.

Those that I listed are fakes. The Church investigates and says 'not supernatural' if they are found to be in theological error or if they talk about things that are off the wall. You mentioned Conyers. In the case of Conyers, Nancy Fowler 'predicted' a whole lot of things that didn't happen. (I actually visited Conyers during an 'apparition' when I lived in Alabama) Same with Fr. Stephano Gobbi (I met him as well). He predicted a bunch of stuff that didn't happen. Same with Emmitsburg (I've been there too). Same with Garabandal. Same with John Leary. Same with ______. (fill in fake apparition of choice). They all like to make huge predictions about wars and end of world stuff, and it scares the pudding out of people but never comes true.

The church has 2000 years of dealing with this stuff. These people claim to have messages for the world. It's very flashy and the Church gets involved. It knows how to weed out the fakes. Unfortunately there are apparition hoppers who think they know better than the church and so they ignore the warnings from the Church. The Garabandal followers that you quoted are a case in point. Considering what has come out of the Church in regards to the fake apparitions, and considering the children themselves admitted that they lied about it, you'd think common sense would tell them to back off ... but instead they plow on with their 'mission'. It's like they are in a cult. Very spiritually unhealthy.

reply to post by FlyersFan


People are always seeking after something. That's like Pentecostals, they want to see a move of God so much that they follow big name preachers.

I remember my dad talking about when his mom took him to see Oral Roberts when he was young. That was the night Oral Roberts chose to walk away. Another young preacher from that time, Marjoe Gortner, left it all to become an actor. The movie Elmer Gantry was loosely based on the life of Amy Semple McPherson, the founder of the Foursquare Gospel Church. Now there are Foursquare churches everywhere. The Foursquare denomination is fairly decent among Pentecostal groups.

There are people who followed William Branham, they believe Branham raised dead people. I don't know how true that is, but people believe it. I think the first real movement of the Charismatic/Pentecostal movement was Smith Wigglesworth.

But I can see some correlation between the Catholic apparition believers and the Pentecostal movements. I believe it is an attempt to prove God still speaks and moves. They don't realize that God has never stopped speaking, after all Jesus did say "Man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God". So God is still speaking.

I grew up in the Pentecostal faith system as identification, but my parents weren't faithful to take us so much. We actually spent maybe seven years total going to church when I was young. What is funny, I never heard the words Pentecostal or Holiness when I was growing up and when I was older and talked to others, they informed me that I was that. But it had never been something I had ever heard. When I was older and started going to churches where I lived, I found some of these preachers very strange to listen to. They never took the practical approach to God, always it was about "come to church and see a miracle". Maybe it was because of the pastor that I did have when we did go to church.

The pastor never said we were Pentecostal or Holiness, and I think they must have been like I think, it is a mystical experience with God, to know God inwardly. My dad was a Paranoid Schizophrenic and believed every one at church talked about him, that's why he would get angry and take us out of church. But in his mental illness, he was unable to connect with the purpose of being in communication with God.

I don't blame Pentecostalism for my dad's Paranoid Schizophrenia. But since I have been an adult and visiting people and churches, it became difficult for me to maintain a sole Pentecostal identity. Some things I disagree with when it comes to them. And the biggest problem I have found with some of them have been that they can't rightly discern what they are listening to. I will give you an example...

I went to Arkansas to visit my ex-husband's aunt. She had a lot of health issues and it was becoming increasingly difficult for her to get out and she was very depressed. So I went to visit her. I am very sensitive to the spiritual world and in being so, I don't just simply listen to everything, but I will listen for God and then go to the Bible to see if it is God. Well, while I was there and went to visit churches, one of the pastors had decided that he didn't like me, so he began to say things about me, in church. The biggest problem he had with me was that when I was visiting the first morning, all the people there were shouting about some preacher, they were praising this guy. I didn't know this guy and I would not shout about him anyway. Well, that evening I went back and was talking to a lady there and she said to me "I don't know what it is about you, but you are different and special". Then the pastor walks out and sees us talking, walks over to her and says he heard God tell him that she now had all nine gifts of the spirit.

Then he proceeds to call me Jezebel. Well, I knew this pastor was wrong on three counts, I am not Jezebel, and if she did have all nine gifts, then why couldn't she discern if I were Jezebel, and if he had heard from God, then he would be able to discern that she did not discern this....

I left that church and never went back. And it was a Pentecostal church at that.

But people are looking for God to move, they just don't realize that God speaks and moves all the time, but we need to be receptive and discern whether or not it is God. So they latch onto anything that they can see with their eyes, and not their spirit.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Anyone, reading this thread. Check the photo in the OP link of the Eucharist on Conchita's tongue. It isn't doctored. The account of the two photographers is true because Garabandal is true. Caux's witness and conversion account are riveting!

I shared earlier, you can't speak (the negative poster above) of the Warning in one thread and deny prophecy of it in another! The Warning is one of the major revelations of Garabandal.

Here, again, a wonderful explanation on the status of Garabandal. I can post the positive conclusion of EWTN to Garabandal and EWTN is not very pro-yet to be approved private revelation, since Mother
Angelica stepped down.

~ ~ ~


The Church has a very strict and precise terminology for judging alleged apparitions (very few apparitions are officially approved). According to the norms of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, alleged apparitions are classified in one of three categories:
Constat de supernaturalitate - It is certain that the events are of supernatural origin.
Constat de non supernaturalitate - It is certain that the events are not of supernatural origin.
Non-constat de supernaturalitate - It is not certain that the events are of supernatural origin.
So where does Garabandal stand? In a clarificatory letter (English translation published in the EWTN website) dated June 8, 1993 written by Jose Vilaplana, Bishop of Santander (the local Diocese to which Garabandal belongs), the Bishop wrote the following:

ALL the bishops of the diocese from 1961 through 1970 asserted that the supernatural character of the said apparitions, that took place around that time, could not be confirmed. [no constaba].
Based on the above, Garabandal is classified in the 3rd category – it is not certain that the events are of supernatural origin. The Bishop did NOT say “it is certain that the events of Garabandal are not of supernatural origin”, which constitutes a condemnation of the apparition. Rather, based on the above note from the Bishop, the Church is not certain of the supernatural nature of the events – which means that the Church is leaving the door open for a possible positive declaration in the future, pending further investigation.(ie. the Warning & Miracle happening as predicted).

In a letter written by Bishop Eugenio Beitia Aldazabal dated July 8, 1965, he clearly wrote that “we have found no grounds for ecclesiastical condemnation.” Bishop Jose Cirada Lachiondo, in a declaration published June 1970, wrote that the messages of Garabandal “do not contain anything contrary to traditional Church teaching on Faith and Morals”. The first commission which studied the Garabandal events, while stating that they found no phenomena which would authentic the supernatural nature of the events, clearly did not condemn the apparition and the messages, declaring that “we have not found anything deserving of ecclesiastical censure or condemnation either in the doctrine or in the spiritual recommendations that have been published as having been addressed to the faithful.”

The bishop who called the second commission, Bishop del Val, upon retiring from office stated in an interview that the message of Garabandal was “important” and “theologically correct.”
In light of the above, even though the Church has not given official approval yet, a Catholic may in good standing believe in the events at Garabandal. The local ordinaries have been very clear to avoid condemnation. In fact, the Bishops allow private pilgrimages to Garabandal – a typical practice when an alleged apparition has not yet been approved or to various negative reports on Garabandal, therefore, the fact is that the apparitions have never been officially condemned by the Church, particularly by several of the local bishops under whose jurisdiction the apparitions fall. Although the apparitions have not been officially approved, they have not been officially condemned either. This is particularly because most of the important parts of the message – the prophetic messages foretelling the Warning, the Miracle and the Chastisement – can only be validated or invalidated upon their actual occurrence. We will never know if the prophesied events are true or not – until they actually happen.


Furthermore, Bishop Dal Val after retiring, actually confessed to his doctor (after a miraculous healing ) that he was WRONG in his initial judgment . ...


www.motheofgod.com...

FlyersFan

OpinionatedB
are you catholic?

I was raised Catholic. I was a Third Order Franciscan for years and then switched to Third Order Carmelite for a long while. I volunteered for nearly a decade at a Catholic TV Station to help 'evangelize the world'. Now my beliefs don't fit into any box with a title on it.

The reason I brought up Confession to Colbe is because SHE claims to be Catholic and SHE told others on this thread to confess their sins. But she has her own sins that need confessing ... take the log out of your own eye before you attempt to take the speck out of someone else's' ....

edit on 10/31/2013 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)

I share the messages from Heaven at ATS, and they state over and over again how we should prepare for the prophesied Warning. From the heart, truly repent and confess your mortal (serious) sins to God, we're
all sinners and second, daily prayer.

I am growing tired of the personal attack, this is suppose to be a discussion forum.

colbe
Check the photo in the OP link of the Eucharist on Conchita's tongue. It isn't doctored.

No one said the photo was doctored. Read what was said .... Conchita admitted STEALING A REAL EUCHARIST and faking a Eucharistic miracle.

you can't speak (the negative poster above) of the Warning in one thread and deny prophecy of it in another!

Oh yes you can! 'The Warning' isn't an invention of Garbandal. It was stolen by the children of Garabandal from the prophecies of canonized saints. 'The Warning' and 'Garbabandal' are two different issues. The only reason Garabandal speaks of it is because the children got the idea from previous Catholic sources. You've been told that many times previously.

I can post the positive conclusion of EWTN to Garabandal

EWTN is NOT the Church authority. The CHURCH is the Church authority. And ALL THE BISHOPS have said that Garabandal is not from Heaven. I POSTED THEIR EXACT WORDS.

and EWTN is not very pro-yet to be approved private revelation,

There is NO SUCH THING as 'yet to be approved'. You said that about Maria Divine Mercy. Remember how that turned out. It was really a fraud but you ran around yelling at people saying it was 'yet to be approved'. That means you were WRONG. That is why the Church doesn't use that terminology. It is a LIE.

since Mother Angelica stepped down.

Mother Angelica herself said not to follow her but to follow the CHURCH.
And the Church has said over and over ... NOT FROM HEAVEN.


QUOTE From Jose Vilaplana - Bishop of Santander - Oct. 11, 1996

there was no supernatural validity to such apparitions ... I reconfirm that there was no supernatural validity ...

What part of 8 bishops in a row says NO SUPERNATURAL VALIDITY don't you get?
What part of the church saying NO MORE INVESTIGATIONS, don't you get?
What part of all 4 GIRLS ADMITTED THEY LIED don't you get?
What part of CONCHITA CONFESSED THAT SHE STOLE A EUCHARIST don't you get?


Thankfully anyone whos read this thread understand that the OP is pushing a fake miracle. The girl who pulled it off has admitted the hoax. This whole thread should be in the hoax forum.

colbe
I share the messages from Heaven at ATS,

They aren't from heaven. They are admitted hoaxes.

This whole thread is about the fake eucharistic miracle in Garbandal.
THE HOAXER ADMITTED THAT SHE FAKED IT.

I am growing tired of the personal attack, this is suppose to be a discussion forum.

Apologize for calling me a liar over and over, and for not admitting that you were proven wrong. Stop telling others to convert and go to confession when you haven't even admitted your own sins. Oh ... and exposing the truth about these hoaxes and the hypocrisy of the thread isn't a 'personal attack'.

Latest Garabandal Information -
Conchita of the fake eucharistic miracle in the opening post -
Conchitas husband just died at 1 AM on Halloween
On the high Satanic holiday ....
In typical Garabandal doubletalk, they are claiming he died on the vigil of All Saints.
But that's not true. The 'vigil' doesn't start until 4:00 pm the night before the holy day.
So he died at night on Halloween ... very close to the 3:00 am high unholy hour for satanists.

A person can't help when they die ... except for suicides ... but still, it's interesting.
The theme of darkness around Garabandal continues.

Shades of 'the night of screams' where the girls in Garabandal were running around in the middle of the night .. in the pitch black .. screaming and striking impossible poses with their heads snapping back .... dragging people away from the lit up church with Holy Mass and Jesus, and out into the dark night. (ooozes evil !) Garabandal ... always in the dark and connected with evil. And the husband of Conchita dies on Halloween, in the night, near the high evil hour. The darkness continues ....

If you ever want to read a wonderful book about God's grace, this one is classic, beautifully written.

Read the book online:

The Glories of Divine Grace By ~

Father Matthias Scheeben (1835-1888)

www.archive.org.../n5/mode/2up

Chapter 1 begins on page 23.