Homosexuality and the Bible

do you really think it matters to me at all that 3.1 billion or 31 billion or 311 billion people would agree or disagree? how does that impact what is the truth?

the truth is that truth and it matters not a bit how many people "agree" with it. we don't vote on what is true so numbers are perfectly irrelevant.

Originally posted by mikromarius

Originally posted by abstract_alao

Originally posted by Gazrok
...Maybe I'm remembering wrong here, but didn't the townsfolk rape the strangers? (i.e. angels)

No they wanted to rape them but the person gave his daughters up instead and they raped her.
[Edited on 20-5-2003 by abstract_alao]

You're both wrong. When Gabriel and Raphael entered Sodom, Lot gave them food and shelter. Later the townsfolk (do you still use that word? It almost sound Norwegian) surrounded the house in order to fullfill the Law of Sodom according to the Ba'al customs: that every stranger who slept over in the town had 2 "have sex with the gods". Lot, who was a rightious man knowing that the two strangers in his house had been sent by God tried everything in his power to make the townsmen dissapare, in shame, he finally tried to offer them his daughters to make them go away (we learn from 2nd Judges that this was unrightious). The townsfolk didn't want his daughters, they were too lawful and godsfearing, and didn't want to see their town being destroyed because some "idiot" closed his door because of some "silky strangers" (anyone who knows about telepathy and writing and how it works through time should understand what I'm saying now) didn't want to see them live. Well Raphael and the Great shook their heads and looked uppon Lot with the look: "How the hell did this guy end up here in the first place". They didn't want the mob to have sex with anyone except their wives, gods as they are, so they confused them with mirrors and twisted dimentions, and they finally went home. And the morning after, Gabe and Raphie sent the Lot family out while they did the things their Key-of-Law demanded.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

[Edited on 21-5-2003 by mikromarius]

Even though there is no record of Jesus having mentioned homosexuality or same-sex relationships, many Christians continue to believe that Jesus himself condemned homosexuality. Jesus did not. Instead he preached a message of radical inclusion, in stark contrast to the strict adherence to purity codes observed by many within his society.

So what does the Bible say about homosexuality? The short answer is, "nothing." The concept of homosexuality as a sexual orientation was unknown in biblical times.

The Bible does make a few explicit references to same-sex genital activity. Several of these texts have been used to assert a biblical condemnation of homosexuals and their relationships.

You church is run by liars then. Homosexuality was most definitely a known concept in biblical times. It occured in ancient Rome, and it occured in Sodom and Gommorah. That is where we get the term refering to homosexuals, "Sodomite" from. Read the bible yourself, it says in both the New and Old Testaments that it is an abomonation. I listed several quotes earlier if you scroll up. Research it for yourself or continue to deny the truth. Jesus may not have said it personally, but His apostles did, if his apostles wrote it, and Jesus approved of the writings of His apostles, then Jesus did believe that homosexuality was wrong. That is just another case of people trying to manipulate their own personal beliefs into the Bible. Regardless of what you believe personally, the historical Jesus Christ did opose homosexuality.

[edit on 29-8-2005 by AnonymousUserVII]

Originally posted by Ken62

Originally posted by mikromarius

Originally posted by abstract_alao

Originally posted by Gazrok
...Maybe I'm remembering wrong here, but didn't the townsfolk rape the strangers? (i.e. angels)

No they wanted to rape them but the person gave his daughters up instead and they raped her.
[Edited on 20-5-2003 by abstract_alao]

You're both wrong. When Gabriel and Raphael entered Sodom, Lot gave them food and shelter. Later the townsfolk (do you still use that word? It almost sound Norwegian) surrounded the house in order to fullfill the Law of Sodom according to the Ba'al customs: that every stranger who slept over in the town had 2 "have sex with the gods". Lot, who was a rightious man knowing that the two strangers in his house had been sent by God tried everything in his power to make the townsmen dissapare, in shame, he finally tried to offer them his daughters to make them go away (we learn from 2nd Judges that this was unrightious). The townsfolk didn't want his daughters, they were too lawful and godsfearing, and didn't want to see their town being destroyed because some "idiot" closed his door because of some "silky strangers" (anyone who knows about telepathy and writing and how it works through time should understand what I'm saying now) didn't want to see them live. Well Raphael and the Great shook their heads and looked uppon Lot with the look: "How the hell did this guy end up here in the first place". They didn't want the mob to have sex with anyone except their wives, gods as they are, so they confused them with mirrors and twisted dimentions, and they finally went home. And the morning after, Gabe and Raphie sent the Lot family out while they did the things their Key-of-Law demanded.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

[Edited on 21-5-2003 by mikromarius]

No your wrong, I refer you to Genesis 19:4-7

"Before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, surrounded the house, both young and old, all the people from every quarter; and they called to Lot and said to him, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them. But Lot went out to them at the doorway, and shut the door behind him, and said, "Please, my brothers, do not act wickedly.""

It says that the "men of the city, the men of Sodom", not angels, came to have sex with Lot's male family members, but Lot called this "wicked".

this is really getting twisted!

"Jesus definitely approved of the writings of this apostles" - what?! are you joking?!

Jesus' apostles wrote pretty much nothing - as far as any bible scholar can tell, they certainly didn't write anything during the time Jesus was on earth.

About the only stuff in the current bible that *might* have been written by one of the men whom is generally thought to be an apostle is the letters fo Paul but, then again, Paul wasn't one of Jesus' followers while he was on earth so, that doesn't really count either.

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earlier, someone wrote about homosexuality being a "birth defect" - again, I gotta wonder about the knowledge and logic in this thread. is being left-handed a birth defect? there was a time that good Christians considered anyone born left-handed to be of the devil. is red-hair color a birth defect? there are not a lot of red-heads, you know...I could go on and on but, what's the use?!

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Homosexuality is listed among the dozens of things considered to be an abomination in the bible (I never argued that it was not). So, gentle readers, what are those other abominations? why don't you look them up ad list them for us, hmmm? Now, check and see which of the listed abominations are named as the worst...what is the "ranking", if you will, of those things listed as abominations?

Hmmm....it seems that you may have a problem picking on homosexuals here without going after people who eat shrimp, or pork, or touch dead pig flesh, etc. How can you justify just persecuting homosexuals but serving shrimp coctails and BBQ ribs at your church socials?

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OK, y'all got some work to do...take your time and do it well. I've already done mine. You may find that you owe your God an apology for assuming that God is so small-minded as your bible/dogma makes God out to be.

Originally posted by AnonymousUserVII
You church is run by liars then.

Why, oh why did I even bother posting in this thread. :shk:

Originally posted by AnonymousUserVII
Homosexuality was most definitely a known concept in biblical times. It occured in ancient Rome, and it occured in Sodom and Gommorah. That is where we get the term refering to homosexuals, "Sodomite" from.

Were you around in Biblical times? If not, I don't think I will consider you an expert.

From my church of 'liars' (last link on the page)

The story of Sodom and Gomorrah and a very similar story in Judges, has nothing to do with same-sex affection or sexual intimacy. Rather, it is about infringing ancient Near Eastern hospitality codes, and about gang rape as a violent expression of male dominance. In both stories, women are offered to men "to do with as they please." The women are offered as substitutes for male visitors that townsmen want to violate. In the story from Judges, the two women are gang-raped and murdered.

When later biblical texts refer to "the sin of Sodom," the sins referred to are arrogance, adultery, lies, insincere religious practices, political corruption, oppression of the poor, neglect of orphans and widows, and inhospitality. Homosexuality or same-sex sexual acts are not mentioned.

Please take special note of the arrogance, insincere religious practices and inhospitality.

Originally posted by AnonymousUserVII
Read the bible yourself, it says in both the New and Old Testaments that it is an abomonation.

I have. I grew up in a manse with two ministers. I spent my summers cataloguing biblical reference books. I had to attend 3 services on Sunday, because that's how many parishes my aunt served. Can you say the same?

It's nice that you are so firm in your beliefs but a most Christians would be a little more familiar with the teachings of Matthew 7.

There's something else here I want to address.

Originally posted by AnonymousUserVII
Homosexuality was most definitely a known concept in biblical times. It occured in ancient Rome, and it occured in Sodom and Gommorah.

Ancient Romans tended to look at sexuality as being dominant and submissive, not heterosexual and homosexual. They were more concerned about keeping the sex within their social strata then if it was with a man or a woman.

The sexual acts that people generally associate with homosexuality did exist at this time, but not our concept of it. These sexual acts aren't exclusive to homosexuals.

Originally posted by AnonymousUserVII
That is where we get the term refering to homosexuals, "Sodomite" from.

In the Bible, Sodomite is only ever used to describe people who were like the people who lived in Sodom. But I'll check with Merriam Webster and see what they say.

Main Entry: sod·om·ite
Pronunciation: -"mIt
Function: noun
: one who practices sodomy

So I follow the link to sodomy, and this is the result:

Main Entry: sod·omy
Pronunciation: 'sä-d&-mE
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French sodomie, from Late Latin Sodoma Sodom; from the homosexual proclivities of the men of the city in Gen 19:1-11
1 : copulation with a member of the same sex or with an animal
2 : noncoital and especially anal or oral copulation with a member of the opposite sex

Nowhere in Genesis 19:1-11 do I see any mention of homosexuality. What I do see is a bunch of people trying to force their way into Lot's house to rape his guests. Not very nice but I see no actual mention of homosexuality as a sexual preference. Or bestiality for that matter.

In Biblical times all anal and oral sex was considered against the word of God, it didn't matter who did what to whom, or what bits and pieces they had. It was a waste of the 'seed of life', sperm.

I guess I'll go with the Bible version.


edited to be a little clearer

[edit on 29-8-2005 by Duzey]

[edit on 30-8-2005 by Duzey]

In 2004 a version of this letter was posted in the jokes section here www.abovetopsecret.com...&addstar=1&on=458734#pid458734

I am reposting a recent version I received today....god my dial-up is sloooooooow.
Interesting to note how considerably this piece has changed over the years. I changed the signature since I cannot verify the author. It could be re-written to drive the message home even better, but this is still good.

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can.

When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination .... End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of Menstrual uncleanliness - Lev15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev..1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination, Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I'm confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your adoring fan,
James Doe
Ed.D. Professor Emeritus, Dept. Of Curriculum,
Instruction, and Special Education University of Virginia

When I repeatedly pressed him with questions, a wise military chaplain told me to read the Bible as a hungry man, starving for salvation meets a plump and roasted chicken.

Eat the meat, spit out the bones.