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What is the actual cost of Obamacare?

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posted on Oct, 30 2013 @ 01:42 PM
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DontTreadOnMe
reply to post by Snarl
 


And with these new lawsuits, what happens to those who sign up?
Those who "qualify" for subsidies?
Those who got thrown under the bus because they are retirees, spouses or part-time workers no longer covered?
Those who had individual policies that no longer exist in 2014?

SNAFU is all I can think.
I'd say what were they thinking, but it seems thought processes were few and far between when this law was written


Four question marks for which I'd have nothing better than a rhetorical response to offer. I'm waiting for the next twist: What happens to the children of parents who aren't coughing up their last dollars? Wards of the state? I could forgive a SNAFU, but this has the smell of a manufactured crisis ... one which TPTB may be all too ready to take advantage of on a lot of different levels.




posted on Oct, 30 2013 @ 01:48 PM
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DontTreadOnMe

SNAFU is all I can think.
I'd say what were they thinking, but it seems thought processes were few and far between when this law was written



Agreed to a point. Programs like Medicare and Social Security underwent hundreds of tweaks and fixes after their initial passage, whilst the GOPs unwavering opposition to ACA/Healthcare Reform has resulted in "Repeal"...don't "Fix"...and no legislative tweaks have been made to the law as it rolls out.

It is like Apple being forced to release their first iPhone prototype as product and being prohibited from improving upon it or issuing patches.



posted on Oct, 30 2013 @ 01:55 PM
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Indigo5

DontTreadOnMe

SNAFU is all I can think.
I'd say what were they thinking, but it seems thought processes were few and far between when this law was written



Agreed to a point. Programs like Medicare and Social Security underwent hundreds of tweaks and fixes after their initial passage, whilst the GOPs unwavering opposition to ACA/Healthcare Reform has resulted in "Repeal"...don't "Fix"...and no legislative tweaks have been made to the law as it rolls out.

It is like Apple being forced to release their first iPhone prototype as product and being prohibited from improving upon it or issuing patches.


The lack of transparency in Obamarama care is a big part of the problem. I really don't see a "GOP" opposition ... more like a tactic to ensure their corporate interests are further enriched. Why couldn't they have written a law that simply stated, "No Insurer may refuse a paying customer. Penalty: Business license revoked."
edit on 30102013 by Snarl because: Spelling



posted on Oct, 30 2013 @ 03:04 PM
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Snarl
Why couldn't they have written a law that simply stated, "No Insurer may refuse a paying customer. Penalty: Business license revoked."
edit on 30102013 by Snarl because: Spelling


Because the Insurers claimed that would be cost prohibitive and would require a mandate to require everyone to have insurance in order to cover costs.

The mandate was first proposed by the GOP during the "Hillarycare" debate.



posted on Oct, 30 2013 @ 03:52 PM
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Well finally we got an "Email from the military times on Retirees and ACA caca, while my husband is fine under his status of "retiree" and will always have the right to a veterans hospital, we are finding out that is some qualifications to it for those that are retirees of other branches of government like national guard and none military, if they do not qualify to the veterans hospital they will be left alone to deal with the exchange or if they can not qualify for the Obamacaca they will have to got into the expansion of Medicaid.

It looks to me that they are been left alone to fry on Obamacaca.



posted on Oct, 30 2013 @ 11:12 PM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 



What made you choose this specific County/State from the list?


I live in the Show-Me State. Greene County is the population center for the side of the state I'm in. So, naturally, it's the first one I focused on. It's by no means all I'm working with, but then..I figured I'd get some numbers up for people to see, who hadn't seen any yet. I've been quite amazed by how many at my college (in faculty, no less), have not seen hard numbers on any level yet.

--

As far as the court challenge goes, as I've read the information on it? It's not challenging the law as much as challenging the people implementing Obamacare to follow it themselves. It seems the 'No subsidy to you..' came into play as the stick opposite the carrot to insure states DID make their own exchanges and gleefully cooperated.

...Well, then the Supreme Court ruled on things, allowed states to simply decline to expand the Medi- programs at all, on a state by state basis and many, like mine, went further to outlaw any cooperation from State entities with any form of exchange. State or Federal. In so doing, and under what I understand the law to now be, that cut us out of subsidy money or credits. The stick....

Of course, they didn't expect a couple dozen to do this ...and even a couple states jeopardize the entire program's solvency. All need to play to spread the costs and spread the risks. If some, like Missouri and others, just say No? Holes appear in the USS Obamacare. In fact, it's looking like it side swiped an Iceburg, at this point. Maybe they can fix it and keep it afloat a bit longer. Who knows.

edit on 30-10-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 31 2013 @ 12:07 AM
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tehdouglas
I dont have an extra $250 a month so screw em.
I also smoke a cigarette after work (around a pack/month) and they want to make people who smoke pay more. No thanks.

If you only smoke 1 cigarette a day...why not just quit?



posted on Oct, 31 2013 @ 12:09 AM
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reply to post by jhn7537
 





Can someone please explain to me how this was passed in Congress?

Didn't you know our congress is bought and paid for? They will vote for anything as long as they get paid enough money.



posted on Oct, 31 2013 @ 12:22 AM
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Obamacare/ACA is making me hate my country more and more each day... The politicians need to open their eyes already to see that the majority of the people HATE THIS... I really don't enjoy being bent over by my own Govt. on a regular basis. I'm sure there are people who enjoy it, cough cough Obama supporters, but I'm not one of them. Thankfully, I can rest a little easier at night knowing that I never once voted for this fool to run this country. I do feel bad for those who not only voted for Obama once, but did it a second time...



posted on Oct, 31 2013 @ 06:22 AM
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Evanzsayz
If you only smoke 1 cigarette a day...why not just quit?

Nicotine is the second most addictive substance known to man. Some circles label it as the most addictive, but I think the big H sits on that pedestal. No one really quits ... they may be reformed, and they may develop an aversion, but they'll NEVER be cured.

Did you know nicotine alters brain physiology as well as hi-jacking part of mind function? If you have been exposed to nicotine this physiology is detectable as long as you have a brain. LOL

Why is this important to this thread? Because labeling a person as an addict carries with it a specific negative connotation. Just before we say someone is a nicotine addict, we should acknowledge that everyone is addicted to air from the moment they take their first breath. Uh uh ... doesn't sound negative enough to make you pay more for something you don't need. Why make them pay more ... instead of excluding insured healthcare for smoking related issues?

I gotta leave this thread alone.

Wrabbit: Good job making us all put our minds to work on the issues ... unfortunately were all 'hooked' on Obamarama care.



posted on Oct, 31 2013 @ 07:54 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Don't we all just love this fantastic ACA that the Tyrant 0bama peddled to us?
It is super awesome and I can;t wait for MY free Health Care.

I will sit patiently by my door, waiting on the letter carrier, watching MSNBC for when 0baa tells me the next thing to do in life.

Well, who here is surprised???

And, I am sure that the usual suspects will come around to protect and defend the benevolent 0bama.



posted on Oct, 31 2013 @ 07:57 AM
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reply to post by SasquatchHunter
 


Welcome to the new world, where YOU will be paying more for others.

Isn't it just awesome????



posted on Oct, 31 2013 @ 08:01 AM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 


Too bad both those programs are still not fixed, flawed, suck huge amounts of money from the tax payer and are projected to be insolvent fairly soon.

So yeah, what great programs the Govt "provides" for the people.



posted on Oct, 31 2013 @ 08:40 AM
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Well another great news for my "welfare state and city" seventeen thousand people in my neck of the woods will lose their existing healthcare, that is mostly supplied by their company offered insurance and will be forced into Obamacare, but the problem is that here in my neck of the wood is not exchanges because we got a monopoly due to only one major hospital, people are starting to get very angry around due to this latest news, because the news already had warned the citizens that due to no ex change their will be paying more than let say in Atlanta.

And to think that with all the major manufacturers gone since the 90s, all we got left that pay enough to keep some of those 17 thousands productive is the military base civil workers and military, (they have government insurance anyway), the contractors (they offer insurance anyway and most of the people they hired are retirees), then is Miller company and P&G.

So I guess that most of the bulk comes from Miller and P&G, so it is true that big corporations will be dropping their health care packages.

Because how can 17 thousand people will lose their insurance just like that, this people are the ones that support the rest of the welfare none productive in the city.

Interesting, I need to find out more on actually what are the big business doing to avoid offering insurance and how they will get away with it.



posted on Oct, 31 2013 @ 10:01 AM
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Wrabbit2000

Of course, they didn't expect a couple dozen to do this ...and even a couple states jeopardize the entire program's solvency. All need to play to spread the costs and spread the risks. If some, like Missouri and others, just say No? Holes appear in the USS Obamacare. In fact, it's looking like it side swiped an Iceburg, at this point. Maybe they can fix it and keep it afloat a bit longer. Who knows.

edit on 30-10-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)


I'll speak in general terms.

Healthcare needed/needs fixing in the USA. The status-quo was doom...#1 cause of personal bankruptcy for a decade, #1 driver of personal and federal debt...#1 in cost in the world...#37 in healthcare outcome etc. etc.

Obamacare/ACA at it's very best is a "workable" solution. It's "very best" being both parties tweaking and fixing the law in a non-partisan way for the best interest of the country....but THAT is not happening.

So that leaves us with a broken solution, but also...going backwards is not an option.

In that context I think the campaign to repeal ACA/Obamacare is driving us toward more European style, potentially single-payer healthcare.

Just my sense of it.



posted on Oct, 31 2013 @ 10:23 AM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 


Okay, when you put it that way, how can I possibly disagree? Further context may make disagreement pretty easy to find, but heck... I'll be good to look at it within the frame you pose it there.

Yes, our health system is a mess. More so than it was in 2009, IMO...BUT .... I didn't have insurance then, either. It was too high for my trucking company to offer and back then? I was a smoker. 'nough said for getting a policy on the private market. Even at a trucker's income, that was prohibitive, to say the least.

So, it's fair to say that, yes, 100% attack mode on everything relating to the ACA with absolutely nothing viable being offered or even suggested as a replacement or alternative is politics at it's worst. The opposition could at least throw a few ideas out, aside from just destruction of ...not a program...but a tome of regulation and changes in law.

(How the heck do you "defeat" regulatory changes??? They keep peddling this as if it's a program in it's own right ..when we both agree, I assume, that it's anything but)



posted on Oct, 31 2013 @ 10:41 AM
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At the risk of digging myself into this thread like a tick ...

The OP asks: What is the actual cost of Obamacare? Wrabbit went after the numbers ... but it is SO much more than that.

1. What is the value you place on your personal health?
2. What is the value you place on the health of your family?
3. What is the 'actual' value of a doctor's time ... of his assistant's ... of his staff's?
4. What are the real costs of test tubes, pharmaceuticals, bed time, etc.?
5. How much 'profit' can the insurance industry be allowed?
6. Somebody else take a turn ...

These things are the unknowns. Sheople are always afraid of the unknown. I learned how to deal with the unknown in the early '80s and would not recommend my methods to anyone. I've read the responses of folks of similar stout heart, "I'm not gonna pay." and "I'll take my licks when I know I've earned 'em."

I'm still waiting for answers from my guberment.

1. What are you doing to get more people through college with Medical Degrees?
2. What steps have been taken to de-regulate medicine and encourage 'real' competition?
3. You know what to do.

This reply is the property of ATS now. Maybe the staff can take what follows-up and send it to TPTB and get 'em moving. Wouldn't that be something to see?



posted on Oct, 31 2013 @ 01:39 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


As much as I hate the ACA and what it has done to HC in this country, it looks like we're stuck with it....we cannot go back to the idyll days before it began to be implemented.
Those rates are gone.

But, I hope they can fix it....and make it as good as possible?
I never thought I'd be saying that

But the single payer option will be far, far worse.
Far, far, FAR more expensive.
Considering the mammoth costs in this country and the lack of reform in torts and medical costs for damn near every level of care.

I'm guessing/hoping this is a far off number, but even if not, I cannot afford even a third of my $$ going to taxes.

To pay for a single payer system like Europe’s, America’s middle class would face a doubling of payroll taxes and a fifty percent increase in their total taxes on income. Americans would pay about 45 percent of their earnings for federal taxes on income alone. After that they have to worry about state taxes and local property taxes.

www.forbes.com...



posted on Oct, 31 2013 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by DontTreadOnMe
 


Here is the problems of all evils in this nation, without regulating industries is not going to be any help for us the slaves.

And sadly is no going to happen, Obama and congress crappy health care law will fail on its own.



posted on Oct, 31 2013 @ 02:42 PM
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DontTreadOnMe


But, I hope they can fix it....and make it as good as possible?
I never thought I'd be saying that

But the single payer option will be far, far worse.
Far, far, FAR more expensive.
Considering the mammoth costs in this country and the lack of reform in torts and medical costs for damn near every level of care.


Any solution single payer or private has to address costs...The USA has the highest cost in the world by almost double...

And another thing to consider is the concept that "private" healthcare already exists. It can be argued that government already had a huge role in healthcare, but it was driving up costs at the hands of lobbyists. Pre-Obamacare HALF of the policies issued by the private sector were government backed and accounted for the Majority of private insurers profits. Also...lobbyists for years succeeded in making it impossible for Americans to get drugs from less expensive markets like Canada. The part of Obamacare that allows this doesn't go into effect until 2015.

So ...to some extent...it can be argued that the question is HOW government regulates healthcare and to whose benefit vs. if government should be involved.
edit on 31-10-2013 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



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