What Is The Tea Party and What Do They Stand For?

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


I actually agree with almost everything you just said. There is plenty of cutting that could be done in regards to spending, but when the most logical ones are mentioned (military)nobody wants that. They love cutting miniscule budgets in half though.

The only thing I don't think there is a logical solution for is the issue of illegal immigration. The basic fact is, migrant workers (primarily illegal hispanics) work for a pittance. Most American's are not willing to take seasonal work at 1.50 - 2.00 an hour. Nor could the farmer pay that wage legally, to a citizen. So either the cost of food skyrockets or GMO farms completely take over farming in America. PLus the cost that would be incurred to attempt to remove all of everyone in the country illegally, build actual secure borders. We are talking a project of decades and billions of dollars.

usernameconspiracy
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

I actually agree with almost everything you just said. There is plenty of cutting that could be done in regards to spending, but when the most logical ones are mentioned (military)nobody wants that. They love cutting miniscule budgets in half though.

MIC lobby and some misguided serviceman may not, but the vast majority would if they knew what was being cutted. Cut the servicemen from 3 million to 2 million. Cut black budget spending by 2/3rd since we are light years ahead of the competition. Do we really need stealth fighters and stealth bombers, and how many? Do we really need 25 aircraft carriers when the second biggest power has 5? How many submarines that launch nukes do we need when they can be launched from the mainland? How many bomb shelters do the elite need?

The only thing I don't think there is a logical solution for is the issue of illegal immigration. The basic fact is, migrant workers (primarily illegal hispanics) work for a pittance. Most American's are not willing to take seasonal work at 1.50 - 2.00 an hour. Nor could the farmer pay that wage legally, to a citizen. So either the cost of food skyrockets or GMO farms completely take over farming in America. PLus the cost that would be incurred to attempt to remove all of everyone in the country illegally, build actual secure borders. We are talking a project of decades and billions of dollars.

Setting up a double layer barbed wire fence with mines in the middle shouldn't cost billions. The price of food wont skyrocket because someone works for $7.50/ph instead of $3/ph unless of course you like illegals flooding the job market and stealing jobs from the average american. Lets face it we cant have a nation of college graduates, there should also be a market for unskilled and skilled labor.

EarthCitizen07
reply to post by usernameconspiracy

 

I have no problem with state and local taxes being relatively high. What I do have a problem with is the $17 trillion debt that seems unpayable and growing by the day. The federal government has been out of control the last 20 years.

In the old days tariffs were common, then the neoliberals and neoconservatives hijacked the two big parties, and pushed for globalism in terms of free trade. Free trade has killed the job markets and inflated welfare statism to unsustainable levels. This meant taxable income went down and less overall taxes taxes collected. Neoliberals are also for illegal immigrants crossing the mexican border at will thus flooding the job market and draining the social welfare programs.

If property taxes are too high you can always move to a lesser developed town and pay less. If state taxes are too high you can move to a different state. But how can one avoid federal taxes to pay the debt?

I have a serious problem with this version of free trade we have. We sell our resources so we can turn around and purchase the same:

In September, the United States exported 3.2 million barrels of refined petroleum products a day and imported just 2.2 million barrels a day. That's a surplus of exports over imports of roughly a million barrels a day

Instead of using what we can make here at home, we are selling what we can make here at home, and purchasing what we use from other countries. Some will say well this helps this that or the other, however whatever it helps does not appear to be Americans:

There's no evidence to suggest that U.S. consumers have gotten any benefit from the United States becoming an exporter of refined oil products. Gasoline prices, as far as anyone can tell, haven't fallen as a result, for example. Higher oil prices are still likely to take money out of consumers' wallets that could have been spent on things other than gasoline.

money.msn.com...

Instead of paying for shipping costs etc of bringing refined petroleum into this country, why are we not foregoing shipping costs and using what we have right here at home and selling what we do not use... apparently this is quite possible!

Instead of having industry here at home to provide jobs for Americans, factories are in Mexico and other countries and they bring in the goods from overseas to sell here. That also makes no sense, loose our industry and we loose jobs and who is going to be purchasing the products?

I am against a welfare state. Right now in America when there are more people on welfare than having full time jobs it means the welfare system in unsustainable. Work more on bringing industry back inside the United States so there will be jobs for people and you wont need welfare except in extreme situations of illness etc. and then only for a short time.

Penalize the corporations who do not have factories here that make products from beginning to end. Something being assembled in the US does not make it made in America!

Get rid of the illegals inside the borders. If someone goes to the hospital and we find out they are an illegal alien its time to ship them back as soon as possible. If an illegal gets pulled over in a car they get shipped back immediately.

We cannot afford to loose jobs anymore. We cannot afford to be a welfare state, providing all the needs so citizens sit at home doing nothing while illegal aliens work good jobs.

That said I think social issues need to be addressed at the state level. Gay marriage, abortion and laws such as this should be up to each individual state, federal should have nothing to do with that.

Also to note. I am interested in discussing, I will just be a bit slower at times in responding, so forgive the slowness of my replies.... but I believe this conversation as a whole needs to be had and I will be responding and discussing.

reply to post by TDawgRex


Yeah I know, this is bothersome to me. I have heard in this thread that tea partiers are "insane" yet the worst thing I have seen thus far is some sarcasm on the part of a couple tea party members and some misspellings. Just because not everyone has had the blessing to go to college (or spell accurately) does not make them ignorant or not worth listening to.

Many of the policies in this country affect the blue collar working class more than the college educated professional.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


Have you looked at the annual trade deficits with china for the last 25 years? I think most of our accumulated debt has resulted because of this enormous imballance done on purpose by the globalists to create welfare statism and unpayable debt.

www.census.gov...

Just with china mind you. What about india, south korea, taiwan, etc?

Trillions of taxable income went down the drain!

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


You are correct, there are areas in the military that can be cut without affecting the security of our nation. I do believe all these wars can go too. However, I don't believe in cutting too much, we now and for a long time will have some very angry people at us...

EarthCitizen07
reply to post by OpinionatedB

 

Have you looked at the annual trade deficits with china for the last 25 years? I think most of our accumulated debt has resulted because of this enormous imballance done on purpose by the globalists to create welfare statism and unpayable debt.

www.census.gov...

Just with china mind you. What about india, south korea, taiwan, etc?

Trillions of taxable income went down the drain!

Yeah, you have to go all the way back to 1985 before you see something close to a balance. But that goes back to there has been a plan in motion for a very long time. Create a dependent people who look to you for everything and you can have your way with those people. You create a nation of slaves who no longer think for themselves.

OpinionatedB

Get rid of the illegals inside the borders. If someone goes to the hospital and we find out they are an illegal alien its time to ship them back as soon as possible. If an illegal gets pulled over in a car they get shipped back immediately.

Here's the thing. Ask anyone in the construction business whether their illegal workers (most crews have them)get deported. They will tell you yes, they do get deported. They will also tell you that, depending on distance from Mexico, that most of them are back at the worksite within a few weeks.

As long as illegals are of benefit to business (and they are) nobody is going to do anything more than throw out the rhetoric during campaign season. Start really punishing the businesses who hire them, and you'll start to see a change, but that isn't going to happen.

ON another subject, as long as we have the combination of technology rapidly advancing and the continued loss of production type jobs to other countries, things will continue to suffer. I say offer tax breaks to companies who wholly produce a product in America, and severe tariffs for those who choose to operate outside of the U.S.

"What Is The Tea Party and What Do They Stand For?"

Simply put, PEOPLE.
AS for what "they" stand for, I assume its varies per individual.

IMO, its all non-sense.
And it's why PEOPLE cant seem to turn things around.
LABELS & GROUPS

It's what divides everyone, and no common message can be heard.
I highly doubt people who upset with things are caring if they are registered as Republican, Democrat. Tea Party or Barbie Party, they are just fed up!

The media would like to spin it into a label issue, when its a HUMAN issue that's unfolding.

Just my 2 cents
~Cheers~

usernameconspiracy

OpinionatedB

Get rid of the illegals inside the borders. If someone goes to the hospital and we find out they are an illegal alien its time to ship them back as soon as possible. If an illegal gets pulled over in a car they get shipped back immediately.

Here's the thing. Ask anyone in the construction business whether their illegal workers (most crews have them)get deported. They will tell you yes, they do get deported. They will also tell you that, depending on distance from Mexico, that most of them are back at the worksite within a few weeks.

As long as illegals are of benefit to business (and they are) nobody is going to do anything more than throw out the rhetoric during campaign season. Start really punishing the businesses who hire them, and you'll start to see a change, but that isn't going to happen.

ON another subject, as long as we have the combination of technology rapidly advancing and the continued loss of production type jobs to other countries, things will continue to suffer. I say offer tax breaks to companies who wholly produce a product in America, and severe tariffs for those who choose to operate outside of the U.S.

There are three steps which can be taken where illegals are concerned.

One: increased border security. (we will need something to do with out of work military personnel anyway) Apparently what we are doing is not quite enough or they couldn't get in quite so easily.

Two: Speed up any and all deportation processes

Three: Fine or even shut down the businesses who hire illegal workers.

I feel those tariffs should be severe, but not for "operating" outside the US as that is a poor way to word it. But tariffs for those who manufacture goods outside of the US and try to import them for sale inside the United States. We need to start making here all the goods we use here, and for the most part we can. Some things will need imported, but really not as much as one would think.

usernameconspiracy

As long as illegals are of benefit to business (and they are) nobody is going to do anything more than throw out the rhetoric during campaign season. Start really punishing the businesses who hire them, and you'll start to see a change, but that isn't going to happen.

Business does not get punished for hiring illegals? Really?

If there was a double fence with a deadman's zone in the middle, I bet there would be a 90% decline in illegal immigration.

ON another subject, as long as we have the combination of technology rapidly advancing and the continued loss of production type jobs to other countries, things will continue to suffer. I say offer tax breaks to companies who wholly produce a product in America, and severe tariffs for those who choose to operate outside of the U.S.

100% agreed. It takes a carrot and stick approach most of the time. Time to put "BigStore Inc" in the defensive. People can afford to pay more for american made items if they bloody make more by working full time and getting compensated overtime when earn it. Walmart is the poster boy for the minimum wage 39 hour work week.

beezzer

buster2010
reply to post by beezzer

 

And this is a perfect example of what the Tea Party is up against. A liberal-progressive mindset that abhors the thought of individuality, personal responsibility, smaller government. They are terrified that they might end up having to rely upon themselves. Hateful out-of-context examples, spiteful commentary, snide remarks are all that the progressives have.

So you have no problem with people being racist. You label it as individualism. They are terrified of having to do things themselves does this include the ignorant TP'ers that hold signs up saying keep your government hands off my Medicare? Typical TP tactic when faced with facts make up BS.

I've met more progressive liberals who are more racist than any other ideology.

But free speech is free speech.

Or do you just want speech that is pre-approved by party officials?

edit on 29-10-2013 by beezzer because: (no reason given)

Hate speech is not Free Speech.

I never said progressive liberals weren't racist. If I did point out where. I just pointed out there was racism in the Tea Party.

I certainly wouldn't want a party that promoted hate or racism. If you are going to do that then why not welcome the KKK with open arms.

reply to post by buster2010


What in your mind makes them racist? Serious question...

reply to post by buster2010


Hate speech is speech that incites violence or by speech, incites actions where harm can be caused.

It is not just speech that you do not approve of.

OpinionatedB

Yeah I know, this is bothersome to me. I have heard in this thread that tea partiers are "insane" yet the worst thing I have seen thus far is some sarcasm on the part of a couple tea party members and some misspellings.

A lot of the more crazy ones seem to have wandered off and no longer post here. Around the last presidential election, there were a quite a few threads with Tea Party members calling for armed overthrow/military takeover of the government and throwing out the constitution and starting over. All because they didn't get the election results they wanted.

It was pure insanity. They were calling themselves patriots while hoping for something hat could only be described as treasonous.

beezzer

The GOP saw the popularity of the Tea Party increase and tried to hitch their wagon to it's rise.

Some faces, voices have given the Tea Party a bad name bvy attaching certain personalities to it.

Let me get myself clear on this, beez - are you saying there was no actual GOP takeover, but that it was the GOP trying to ride the coat-tails of the Tea Party, and that progressives saw that and tried to make the two synonymous in the media?

I could probably buy that, and would then have to revise my thinking.

I was all for the Tea Party when it started out. The day Sarah Palin tried to convince the Tea Party to throw in their lot with the GOP, however, I had to drop back and re-evaluate. Now, to make myself clear, I might have voted Republican had Palin been at the top of the ticket that year rather than at the bottom of it, but then I would have probably had to eat crow, so it's probably just a well that they put that clod McCain at the top of the ticket instead.

I was all for Palin, and all for the Tea Party, until that fateful day she tried to convince the Tea Party to hitch their wagon to the GOP. I knew then two things: 1) Palin had sold us out for political favor, and 2) the GOP was just as hell bent at getting the Tea Party to sell out, too.

I had no further use for either of them from that day forward.

Now before everyone starts talking behind their hands about what a flamin' left winger I am, I WAS a Republican, all my life, up until the Bush years/neocon takeover of the Republicans. After that sell out, I had no further use for THEM, either. It was painful to watch my beloved right wing bastion lurch to the left so thoroughly under the neocons.

That's right, they lurched to the LEFT. Neocons admit themselves that they are "reformed liberals", but I see little if any "reform" in their actions. They nowadays push the same goddamned big government, anti-constitutional agenda that the left espouses, albeit by taking a different route to get there, I suppose in order to mask their tracks.

SO - after that sell out, and after Palin's sell out and the subsequent sell out of many Tea Partiers who dutifully obeyed her and went Republican, I just couldn't make myself support them any more.

It was a good run, and could have been a viable force to be reckoned with, but merging into one of the existing left wing parties jerked the wind right out of it sails as far as I can tell.

OpinionatedB


We The People Demand:

#1 - Flat rate taxation

#2 - Abolish the Department of Homeland Security

#3 -

These are bass ackwards. getting rid of DHS should be number 1, because they are the enforcement arm of the government intended to keep us in line and toeing the mark. Without getting rid of the government's enforcers (knee-cappers and leg-breakers type of enforcers i.e. DHS) the rest of the demands become impractical, since government can just blow us off and send Guido and Nunzio around to "give us a talkin' to".

We already have the FBI for domestic federal law enforcement (legitimate law enforcement, that is)- DHS is just a private army being raised and equipped by the Feds to do their biding when the regular armed forces bow up and say "WHOA there!"

If this were 1932 Germany, they would be called "Brown Shirts" - If it were 1944 Germany, they would be called "Geheime Stazpolezei" - GeStaPo.

There is NO legitiamte rationale for the DHS other than keeping US in line, and preventing US from exercising our right to get the government's ear on matters of importance.

reply to post by nenothtu


Oh... MY... God...

Let's be a whiny baby cry baby now... That is the problem with America.. whiny whiny whiny..

I don't think that should be #2 I think it should be #1.... are we really going to argue about what order our list of demands is in????

Really??? And not just our list but a hypothetical one that was made only as an example???

Seriously????

reply to post by OpinionatedB


Yup!

Order of operations are important!

If you don't believe me, try putting the roof on your house before you put up the walls, or try baking a cake before you've mixed the batter!

I'll kindly leave out the rest of my reply, except to say it had one of these: in it!